Ripmax F16 Falcon : No manual

[Cubber]

Does anyone here have a Ripmax F-16 Falcon.

I just bought one at my LHS and it did not include the manual, nor did the other box at the same store.

Very few parts to install, but there are a couple i did not figure out. Building involves cutting the bottom of the fuselage and i would rather get some advice from users instead of possibly messing it up.

I am gonna write to the manufacturer but don't know how long or if they will respond at all. No help to be found on their site.

Thanks.

[electroboy]

I think you're referring to the pusher version?
Yeah, I had one of these things.
Not too hard to figure out.
The balsa parts are the batterytray/servo tray combo. I think the foto will help figger that one out.

I didn't cut the bottom of the fuse on mine. I'm not sure what you're thinkin' there.

Here's a little illustration of how I remember it goin' together and a foto I found.

ya gotta cut the top of the fuse off at the LE and TE of the wing and eventually glue it back on to the top of the wing.
The ply semicircle goes at the TE of the wing to reinforce the "key" of the wing into the fin. (see those rectangular cutouts?) And the forward part of the fin gets laminated with the 1/64 ply bits that match the shape.

one of the spruce blocks (3-5mm) goes in the top/forward fuse near the LE of the wing "turtledeck" and holds the screw/wing hold-down tabby-thing.

Those were the structural parts I found needed the most attention.
Hope this gets ya started.
post illustrations or fotos of your build problems and I'll try to help.

[Cubber]

Thanks for the info and drawings, you are steering me in the right direction ;)

I had somehow assumed the wing would be glued right in and access would be underneath, using the molded abs part that comes with the kit. There are score lines on it, i now assume it is cut on the lines and simply glued on the belly for protection on landings, right?

I have found the other few threads on this group, helpful so i know know the CG is 80-90 behind the leading edge. I also think, reading them threads, it should perform fine with the stock motor but i also have an Eflite 370 4100 kv. I will want to make that decision before maiden though.

I am a meticulous (and slow) builder that has yet to meet with failure on the 50+ planes i have build so far (many of them large eletrics), so i will not cut or glue anything until i have pretty much everything figured out. I am more used to glow 4 stroke aerobatic aircrafts and this is my first EP micro-jet, i just want it done right!

Thanks again, i'll post pics soon and ask when ready for next move.

[roccobro]

Once again Electroboy, you amaze me with your offhand sketching.

Cubber- I have the manual for my Ripmax F-16 with notes for when I build the spare I have. Haven't flown the first yet. :rolleyes: Lost the dang props and then lost interest as it isn't EDF. :p I can try and scan the plans, or send you copies of either my noted one or the fresh new one.

Second, Be advised the weak area for this bird is the wing saddle area. Whne you sut the top off the fuse to install the wing and such, it makes a weak area. I've read of three incident here on RCGroups where the wing departed midflight. Turns out the fuse wither split in two (at TE of wing), or just flexed enough to pop out of it's "mounts". I used some WBPU and .75oz FG clothe on the inside of the fuse to give it some strength. I also bought 2 pair of 600 mah iRate packs that fit snug up in the nose area (at 60g total pack weight) and make th bird blance perfect. Cut the canopy into an access hatch held down with 5x5x1 magnets. Of course I FG'd that insides too. :D Total weight with HS-55's, IS-300 esc, Johnson 250 and Hitech feather (no batt pack) is 178g. Box says it should be 250g. The stock motor pulls way more amps than the manual says too. Very unsuited for this plane/prop combo.

*End Rant*

Justin

[Cubber]

Roccobro.. thanks for the info.

I had thought, about the departing wing incident, that the 'tabs' that were added to stenghten the wing hold at TE could actually have had the adverse effect of tearing the fuse apart. Now if it is a common occurence, my solution would be to install a 3/4 inch fiberglass ribbon epoxied outside and around the fuselage. Will become transparent thus not show much. I may thing of something similar for the TE.

YESSSSSS, i would appreciate receiving a copy of the instructions very much. There must not be that many pages. The easiest, if you have access to a digital camera, is to put it in Macro mode and just shoot away the pages. I do that all the time to transfer documents (i don't have a scanner) Can be transferred electronically.

Put them into a pm here on the group. If pics are too large, i'll give you an e-mail address. Thanks in advance ;)

With the help of both of you.. now I am getting somewhere :cool:

[Cubber]

Allright now.. I have figured most of it... a few details remain.

I suppose the long piece of gray ply with a notch goes underneath the wing at TE. Where does the other long one go? Then the small half circle one.. under or above the wing at LE?

This is my first pusher. It is just wired reverse, isn't it? Do i need three caps? Normally i use two as the motor on the right shows.

There is not much as far as the motor mount goes. Is the plywood ring all there is and the motor left to push against the stab? Glue? I can't see no other parts.

My motor options :

a) stock motor and prop (looks like a 300 in GWS terms, dunno about the winding)

b) 6v 280 Hacker motor and Gunther prop (that was from a small Hacker kit and it was replaced by BL Astro 010. Only 6 volts but capable and has matched prop.

c) E-Flite 370 4100 kv (Gunther prop fits it seems, dunno about current draw). That would be my last choice because it is normally intended for my E-flite Ultimate

d) speed 400, the one showed here is a race 400 4.8 V (more power on a 2s lipo :) i also have a 6v. Gunther prop is made for it. Would require good fitting and only the lipo would run it with not much to spare. Also heavier.


My battery options :

a) 2s 860 mah TP, will handle 10 amps

b) 8.4 volts 370 mah Nimh (good according to the plane specs, which are 4 amps draw, but that can't be. Short flight anyway)

c) 8.4v and 9.6v 730mah AAA packs. Shown here but not really considered because of weight and poor current handling.


Come to think of it, if the motor has to be glued in place, there will be no messing around and changing later. Gotta pick the right one. I am go to break them in and make static tests

Comments ????

[Cubber]

Hummmm total weight for all the parts (no glue yet) and 2 servos, RX, ESC, lipo : 7.5 ounces... with speed 400 no stator ring : 8.5 ounces.

[geoff.sim]

The stock motor pulls way more amps than the manual says too. Very unsuited for this plane/prop combo.
*End Rant*
Justin
I agree. I threw my F-16 to the back of the shed until I can sort out a motor that will suit the plane. Any ideas? The razor sounds good.

geoff.

[roccobro]

Comments ????
Oh no, now you'll regret it. :D


I suppose the long piece of gray ply with a notch goes underneath the wing at TE. Where does the other long one go? Then the small half circle one.. under or above the wing at LE?
Correct on the really long one. The other long one goes on the bottom of the TE of the elevator, same side as the control horns. tape hinge goes on top. The semicircle goes on the top of the fuse tunnel you cut off (goes under the swinging arm latch as Electroboy drew).

This is my first pusher. It is just wired reverse, isn't it? Do i need three caps? Normally i use two as the motor on the right shows.
Yes, motor wired in reverse, but the prop will face the same direction as if used as a tractor configuration. You will have to take the rubber spininer off and put that side of the prop facing the motor.

There is not much as far as the motor mount goes. Is the plywood ring all there is and the motor left to push against the stab? Glue? I can't see no other parts.
Thats it. I am using a Johnson motor (more on that) and I am using a rolled card stock tube to hold it inline with the airframe. I notched the end of the tube and glued it to the vertical stab inside the fuse. I also made a different shaped mount for the Johnson so it cannot twist in the mount. No glue needed on my motor as it is tight press fit.

My motor options :

a) stock motor and prop (looks like a 300 in GWS terms, dunno about the winding)

b) 6v 280 Hacker motor and Gunther prop (that was from a small Hacker kit and it was replaced by BL Astro 010. Only 6 volts but capable and has matched prop.

c) E-Flite 370 4100 kv (Gunther prop fits it seems, dunno about current draw). That would be my last choice because it is normally intended for my E-flite Ultimate

d) speed 400, the one showed here is a race 400 4.8 V (more power on a 2s lipo :) i also have a 6v. Gunther prop is made for it. Would require good fitting and only the lipo would run it with not much to spare. Also heavier.

I was having a couple issues with the motor. First it was too hot a wind, pulled 15 amps with the right 2s pack! The All Electric Johnson(#394865) spun the prop faster with less current. The Electric Goldmine Johnson(#390531) was too hot a wind also, but still better than the stocker. I'm sorry I don't have the exact current and rpm numbers. Don't have props to try again either.

Second was weight. The CG couldn't be where it needed without a ton of dead weight. Stock motor weighs 47grams, johnson 36g. This weight is right on the tail, and the batt box holds the batts within a given range. Wasn't good enough for some, and my lipos didn't fit as I wished, so I put them in the nose (good room there!).

I'd try your 6v setup or the Hacker. Looks about the same size/weight and the hacker is matched with the prop. The SP400 will be to much weight unless mounted midship.


My battery options :

a) 2s 860 mah TP, will handle 10 amps

b) 8.4 volts 370 mah Nimh (good according to the plane specs, which are 4 amps draw, but that can't be. Short flight anyway)

c) 8.4v and 9.6v 730mah AAA packs. Shown here but not really considered because of weight and poor current handling.


I originally had some packs of 5/4aaa's like your GWS ones. They do handle curent in the 10 amps range, but don't hold a candle to lipos. The 860's look good. I am using 2s2p 600's for current cdraw up to 12 amps. These are cute little narrow cells and I had fun making them. Under the canopy is ~55mm wide.

Justin

[roccobro]

The stock prop is actually a 4.5x3 and I was pulling ~7-8 amps on 2s lipos with the A.E. J250. Wish I had the data still.

Justin

[electroboy]

Correct on the really long one. The other long one goes on the bottom of the TE of the elevator, same side as the control horns. tape hinge goes on top. The semicircle goes on the top of the fuse tunnel you cut off (goes under the swinging arm latch as Electroboy drew).

Justin

OOps, I remembered wrong about the ply reinforce placement. I flew( err...smashed) mine a long time ago.

oh well, lloks like you have the resources you need.

I'm 10-10 on da side.

[roccobro]

You still make me green with your autocad drawings. :p New drivers for my scanner is being downloaded as we speak. How'd you lose yours E-boy?

Justin

10-13 is windy still :(

[electroboy]

You still make me green with your autocad drawings. :p New drivers for my scanner is being downloaded as we speak. How'd you lose yours E-boy?

Justin

10-13 is windy still :(

B'lieve it or not, those are WIN Paint bitmaps :eek:
I don't got no Autocad. tho' wishn I did.

Lost my ripmax f-16 'cuz it was my very first electric plane, used the stock motor/prop combo, tried to fly it overweight, tried to fly it with the stock prop glued back together after first landing, tried to fly it thru some small trees, tried to fly it taped together with some duct tape I found at the field....


then I made a mistake. :o

[roccobro]

I think I remember you schooling me before on only using win paint!

LOL! That was all when the plane cost $35, huh?

Cubber-photos enroute.

Justin

[roccobro]

Wait, there is no way to PM pictures unless they are hosted... I'll need your email addy.

Justin

[Cubber]

Thanks again electroboy, you were the one that got the ball rolling for me with your pic and schematics! :)

roccobro....

Interesting stuff (re. Jonhson motors)... I bet they're available dirt cheap too...now you got me thinking C-130 ;) I am building one (GWS Cargotrans) using 4 4.8v racing car motors instread to the dual 300 that came with the kit. I have a few Johnson's, larger sizes, one seems to have a low gage wire winding, i should put a prop on it and get some numbers.

I will break-in the stock and Hacker motors, then measure them to see what they can turn at what speed and at what cost. Will post numbers here.

I was a great day for me at my LHS... brought back a few goodies ;) (no, no, the bipe ain't electric, but there are times for good dirty fun) :cool:

[roccobro]

What fun! The C-130 quad EDP motored is my next aircraft to buy. The Johnsons WERE $.50 a piece until they sold out. Who'd a thought they'd ever be gone. You can find them in the for sale forum for $1.50 now. How about that e-mail so I can get you these manual pixs?

Justin
roccobro@yahoo.com

[Cubber]

e-mail address was pm'ed to you

[roccobro]

Got it. E-mail is heading your way.

Justin

[Cubber]

No more questions.. many thanks to roccobro for the manual..

After receiving the manual, i thought i was home free for a maiden this w-e.. that's when I ran into trouble.

As i am committed (to myself) to make this model fly as best as it can.. i'll slow down a bit to make the proper tests and decisions. Also, for whoever might lurk... i will make a few more posts and a mini build thread.

So things went sour when i tried to install the power system. The motor mount is a simple light ply ring and the motor is glued in. That leaves much to be desired as the foam is quite fragile and the hole for the motor is actually much too small for the motor to fit in. I devised my own motor mount for the stock motor.. more on that later...

Then things went worse. Preliminary tests on the stock motor revealed that it was way too power hungry for very low thrust with the stock prop. I would have to add cells for more volts.. more weight too, more than the planned lipo. At this point my best estimates were 10 ounces AUW.. That's too much.

I was ready to consider the brushless but not before more serious tests on a few small motors with whatever props i had on hand. Not scientific or anything, i just wanted some comparisions between them. I used a 5x3 GWS prop that could easily be adapted to the three and a fresh 8.4v pack. Here's what i gathered:

Stock motor : 13,800 rpm at 9.3 amps
GWS 300H : 14,400 rpm at 6.2 amps (this one i took from my CargoTrans kit)
Hacker 280 : 12,000 rpm at 3.5 amps

It's obvious that the stock motor is a dud, current draw is way beyond the 4 amps stated in the specs for less rpm than the GWS at 150% its current. Choice between the two was obvious. The small 280 turned out not too bad currentwise and might be ok for a small floater but not suitable for this plane.

If compared to others I have, the provided prop is, i am pretty sure, a 4.5x3. Now the GWS would spin it faster for a lesser current, but i doubt it would have enough thrust for the plane. I would rather stick to the GWS 5x3. However, at 6.2 amps, the motor is not yet quite loaded, so i think i could use a 5x4 prop, current draw would go 8ishh and even with a decrease in rpm, i should get more speed.. more thrust certainly so, so that's what i'll try next.

Now that i am pretty sure i can use the lipo, weight estimates are down to 8 ounces. That's acceptable for now.

Knowing what motor to use, i can now finish the improved motor mount and fuselage modifications. In an effort to save more weight, i could have drilled lightening holes in the rather bulky servo/battery tray. Then I realized this thing as it is is completely unnecessary. I will not use it it. More mods but i may be able to shave off almost half an ounce there. A few other mods are looked into.. from flights reports from other users, the wing has the habit of tearing the fuselage apart or just pop out. I'll have to do something about that.

That's it for now... back to the building board...pics in the next post...

[roccobro]

Good thinking and thanks for the prop info. You are right about the batt box, the only important thing it does is hold the hardwood block that goes at the LE of wing at hold down. I'm going to have to get a prop adapter for the J250 and GWS props I have. Please post a link to your mini build thread if it isn't going to happen here.

Justin

[Neil Guildford]

I traced the parts (except fuz) and made them into balsa covering them in met red.
I wasn't happy about how flexable the wing was especially since i'm going to hot it up with a brushless.

Will let you know how it flys.

[roccobro]

Excellent! Never did find the stock props I did all the testing with. She still sits above the TV only missing that ONE item to fly...

Justin

[Neil Guildford]

I had some problems getting it to balance with a 2 cell lipo, so i've ended up using an 8.4v 600 nicad I have. If I had a 2000mah 2 cell that would be ideal. AUW is 430g, which isn't bad considering the batt is 145g.

Neil

Oh and i made a couple of mod's. The battery is under the canopy which is held on with velcro and the wing is screwed down with a nylon bolt and T-nut.

[roccobro]

Can you opst a picture of the T-nit setup? I don't like the stock ply holddown arrangment.

Justin

[Neil Guildford]

Sorry would do if i hadn't totalled it.
On launch the motor faded to a sustantially lower power and it nosed in.

Bummer...

For the nylon bolt I inserted a ply piece against the former and between the sides of the battery bay at the top. To the rear I put a piece of balsa from the tail fin forward like a tongue. The wing was very secure.

I will look through the bin later and take a pic....on reflection reading this back sounds quite confusing.

Neil