3M - Bird Of Time Arf (modification) [Archive]

eightwgt

Mar 12, 2005, 04:36 PM

Guys.... I am not posting pics of all the parts - you can find those pics all over the net. Anyway - below are the first pics of the wing structure and as we have heard the spar construction is questionable at best. Look at the pictures and you can see among other things that it is a weak structure.

I plan on removing a strip of the 'D-box' balsa to inspect it more
I can add basswood strips between the top and bottom star on the front side of the spar to create a box beam spar - there is a decent (but not well glued) box beam structure out to the 5th rib from the wings centerline - at least they did this.... but past that out to the dihedral joints where the outer panels join is what looks lousy. I will add 1/64 ply or basswood to the horizontal spar web (grain runs horizz. instead of verticle) on the back side of that area.

As far as where the joiner rods go for the wings I have not decided what to do.

It is my goal to make the plane much stronger but Im not trying to make it winch proof or anything. I am trying to do what I can that anyone could do. This is going to be a pain......

I will take and post any additional pictures asked of me by the way.

ALL SUGGESTIONS ARE APPRECIATED !!!

eightwgt

Mar 12, 2005, 05:14 PM

Here is a pic showing what I cut out. I am not removing anymore - kinda trying to decide what I want to do.........

eightwgt

Mar 12, 2005, 06:00 PM

After thinking it out and patching the strip I cut out. I plan on doing what I can without cutting away the strip as in the above picture... its simply too much a pain.

The area where the wing joining rods go must be worked on.... it looks like every wing would fail at these joint so I will remove some material and rebuild these areas......

mdennis

Mar 13, 2005, 08:32 PM

eightwgt,
I did a similar mod last year to a BOT. I had initially used carbon fiber in the web, but learned I had wasted my efforts and money. I then added ply in the web as you are talking about. I also added a carbon fiber strip along the bottom of the center section the full width of the middle piece of the wing. I did no additional reinforcement for the wing tip pieces. I electified my BOT and this wing has withstood launch speeds up to 3,100 fpm. While I had the wing stripped like you have I also added spoilers, which give me the added benifit of being able to inspect the spar, (only the side I reinforced). I don't think the electric motor launch is as hard on the wing as the winch launch, (depending on the operator), but time to heigth is comparable, so the airspeed is comparable. I have well over 100 flights on mine with no discernable damage.

GBR2

Mar 16, 2005, 03:44 PM

Another weak spot is the fuselage just behind where the glued in wood crutch ends. Feels like it is only 1 thin layer of fiberglass thick with a thin gel coat. After a couple of less than perfect landings, this area will start to crack. You can't easily, if at all, get to the inside behind the wood to do any reinforcement.

The aircraft flies great but I'd have paid more for decent wing and fuselage construction.

eightwgt

Mar 17, 2005, 09:19 PM

sierra-gold

Mar 17, 2005, 10:10 PM

Well, I started "work" on my wing today. I stripped the white covering off the center section bottom... that is probably the worst color they could have used. I will replace it with orange covering like on the top - much more visible at altitide.

My wing now looks similar to the photo in post #3, but totally stripped of covering on the bottom.

My plan is to add 1/64 ply webs glued to the balsa webs on the TE side of the spar. This "laminate" web should be stronger than the horiz. grain balsa web alone.

I will cut out the sheeting on both sides of the joiner box (spar) for two bays. Cut the ribs short and add a 1/32" ply web to both sides and then reattach the ribs to the ply. Probably add a couple of gussets - joiner box to end rib also.

Lastly I will epoxy a 1/2" wide piece of carbon tape to the bottom sheeting, over the spar, running from tip to tip of the center section. If I ever need to strip the top covering off, I will probably add carbon tape there also.

My wing already had spoilers added to it. :)

I think this will make my EP BOT wing strong enough for sport flying with electric launch stresses.

Only time will tell.

SG

sierra-gold

Mar 17, 2005, 10:20 PM

PROBLEM NEED ADVICE

Guys..... The dihedral brace consists of 2 aluminum and 2 plywood pieces (cut at correct angle) glued together and go into each wing....

Problem is its real sloppy (1/32)

Assembled thickness is 3/8" Height is 1/2"

Would a solid rod (1/4") inside a brass tube be stronger (like in a Kestral 2 meter) ?? I have the rod and tube.....

I have not glued it together yet... maybe I will add some glass cloth to the assembly and then sand it all when cured ?? Then I can perhaps get it tight ? But if the rod is strong enough...... maybe Ill try that

All suggestions appreciated......

My plan here is to epoxy the joiners into the boxes of the tip sections. This eliminates slop on that side... and you can't misplace them. :)

On the center section side, I will build up the joiner with balsa until slop is removed, and then hit the balsa with CA glue to harden it. Have done this in the past with ply only joiners... Paragon.

Hopefully with a full wrap of tape at flight time they will hold for EP launches.

SG

John Gallagher

Mar 18, 2005, 10:39 AM

Lastly I will epoxy a 1/2" wide piece of carbon tape to the bottom sheeting, over the spar, running from tip to tip of the center section. If I ever need to strip the top covering off, I will probably add carbon tape there also.

My wing already had spoilers added to it. :)

I think this will make my EP BOT wing strong enough for sport flying with electric launch stresses.

Only time will tell.

SG

Adding the CF tape on the bottom of the spar doesn't do much without the CF on the top of the spar.
Electric launch stresses are small. The stock wing will probably be more than strong enough for electric launch.

sierra-gold

Mar 18, 2005, 11:06 AM

While I don't have the credentials to discuss the benefit of carbon on the bottom spar only, my limitied experience with foam wings leads me to believe that even carbon tape on one spar surface adds some strength to a wing. (Foam wings get much sturdier after carbon is applied on top or bottom... at least to a hand twist/bend test.) :)

Obviously top & bottom is desired, but doing the bottom while I have stripped the covering seems to make sense... to me. :) The top is too pretty and has a more complicated covering scheme to replace at this point.

I also agree that my efforts may be a "belt and suspenders" solution for an EP BOT... however I feel more secure in doing them.

SG

John Gallagher

Mar 18, 2005, 11:56 PM

Tape on just bottom makes a foam wing seem much stiffer (less flexible) in your hand, but in-flight bending load is transmitted to the top surface which results in a compression failure - especially with foam. Foam has very little compression strength.

If you look at foam covered with fiberglass/kevlar wings, the carbon strip spar on the top should actually be larger-wider than the carbon spar on the bottom of the wing. Carbon is better in tension than compression.

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 07:57 AM

Guys......

Well I used the dihedral brace included with the kit... mine didnt fit at all but I modified it (glued ply to it) and made it fir perfect.

I am headed out to fly it this morning, 3-5 MPG winds and partly sunny.....

I will post a full report.

I will also post other things about the kit I do not like... there are not many I do like..after building every plane I have owned from a kit or scratch - the BOT will be the last ARF I will buy.....

sierra-gold

Mar 19, 2005, 11:43 AM

Here is a pic showing what I cut out. I am not removing anymore - kinda trying to decide what I want to do.........

Looking in at the spars through the cut out sheeting - was there a balsa shear web on the LE side, or was it open to the top and bottom spars? If open, do the spars appear to be hard wood?

Trying to save myself from cutting in there. :)

SG

Ollie

Mar 19, 2005, 11:45 AM

The low price is quickly enjoyed but the poor quality structure is painful under the covering for a long, long time.

"Gee Ollie.......

Are you tryin to make me regret buyin this plane ? Im gettin worried now since I put it on layaway....... I hope I didnt make a bad purchase - I really like the BOT and allways wanted one....."

The word Yugo comes to mind.

sierra-gold

Mar 19, 2005, 12:33 PM

The photos below relate to anyone wondering on BOT EP conversion possibilities. They show the canopy area of the fuse after tearing out the servo tray structure to make room for battery pack, ESC, and motor. I plan to lay in a piece of kevlar fabric with epoxy on the nose bottom to insure the extra weight in that area does not cause damage on landing.

The particular pack shown is a TP2100 3S2P (4200 mah). The control rod in the photo is for the rudder and will be shortened for the servo being moved under the wing in the fuse.

The second photo is the 3S2P pack next to the fuse. It is placed in the fuse 6 cells tall. Plenty of room. :) The 3S2P is needed due to the 32 amps pulled by the motor I will probably use - HiMax 2825-3600 with a 4.3:1 GB.

No more EP stuff - I promise.

SG

sierra-gold

Mar 19, 2005, 12:49 PM

I have 2 photos below which show some of the construction problems of the BOT ARF wing. The first photo shows the shear web with it's improper grain orientation... horiz. as opposed to vert.

The wing joiner box is at the end of the panel and runs for 2 bays from the left. I have cut the one rib short and will put in one piece of 1/8" plywood for those 2 bays. I will also cut the sheeting on the LE side of the joiner box and put 1/8" ply in there also. Working to the right, I will add a piece of 1/32" ply glued to the shear web in each rib bay on the TE side.

I purchased my plane used and the spoilers were already installed. The 5th bay over shows the balsa "shelf" that the spoiler servo is glued on top of. The spoilers each run directly off HS 55 servos.

The second photo is a different angle to better show the grain direction of the shear webs. The webs are glued to the edges of the spars on the TE side. Not sure about the LE side of the spars. For EP stress I will just modify the TE side of the webs.

SG

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 05:17 PM

Well I flew the Bird.......... One throw - perfect trim... flew ahead 100 feet landed itself.

Put it on the highstart.... low release, flew circle landed - beautiful

Second launch - 200' launch (weak high start) bounced in a bubble, stayed with it, stayed with it, turned into something.... BOOMED ! Got it up to about 400' and the thermal just took the plane so nice - I slowly circled - drifted with it (5 knot wind) took it to 2000+ it was so far away and high I almost ran for my binocs because I lost orientation..... then I flew with a flock of buzzards for 15 minutes...well 45 minutes later I was having fun and started bringin her down - well trying - the lift was crankin !!!! Well I started making short dives and everytime I came close to horiz. flight she went back up and certain times I had trouble gettin her to come back to me and she was getting FAR away.... so I dove her out more aggressively..... well shew was acting real wierd I thought as I got it closer and closer... finally when it was 600-700 feet up and 300-400 yards away I noticed the wings covering had torn away - WOW.... I had torn it just a little untaping it setting up - and put a bandaid on it (scotch tape)

So I landed it without event 20 feet away, and looked at the wing - the pics below tell the story - the dives I guess must have been a little much for the wing. You can see the compression damage, and the crack is real hard to see... but I think Im ok to fly it but need to do something - I may glass the areas with 3/4 or 1-1/2 oz cloth tonight........

It was an exciting day and one heck of a maiden flight fellas !! But the wing is weak unfortunately....

I may just hot wire a wing for it with the same airfoil, balsa sheet it and have some fun.....

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 05:25 PM

More pics

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 05:28 PM

One more

Ollie

Mar 19, 2005, 06:03 PM

If you want value see:
http://www.soaringspecialties.com/birdoftimeglassfuselage.shtml
or
http://www.skybench.com/
Sky Bird

sierra-gold

Mar 19, 2005, 06:04 PM

Next time you are caught in a thermal or very boyant air - full right or left stick and full up elevator. Puts the plane in a "stalled spiral dive", much less stress on the wing than diving.

I'd look for spar damage where the D-tube sheeting cracked also.

Did you see my question on "what's on the LE side of the spar"?

SG

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 06:08 PM

[QUOTE=

Did you see my question on "what's on the LE side of the spar"?

SG[/QUOTE]

No I didnt see it...... I dont remember.

I knew not to dive it but it was down wind and I wanted it heading in my direction.... it was so high up I got a lil panicked =)

Kwok_Yu

Mar 19, 2005, 06:53 PM

eightwgt,
Your wing is basically stock, right? Did you do any strengthing? Wasn't clear from reading the thread. My BOT just arrived. Really great to read of your experience.

-Kwok

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 07:33 PM

KWOK

I added shear webs (vert) as mentioned above in the thread on the center wing spar - had I not done this I am most sure the wing would have snapped !!

sierra-gold

Mar 19, 2005, 07:47 PM

Has anyone had the need to examine the spar structure of their ARF BOT?

I am wondering are the spars hardwood?

What size are they - 1/8" x 3/8"?

Any shear webs on the front (LE) side of the spars?

Unless eightwgt's experience today was a high speed dive (which isn't hard to do and to recoginize at a distance) then the wing appears to be quite weak. :(

It cracked at mid panel, not at the joiners. Most incidents I had read of seemed to be a joiner box problem. That didn't surprise me because they are using the same balsa on the sides of the joiner box as for the shear webs. Forces on the joiner inside the box make it act like a pry bar trying to break the box open. Horiz. grain balsa isn't very effective for combating that. Usually one would use plywood on the sides and maybe wrap the box in kevlar thread.

SG

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 10:40 PM

Sierra :

you asked : "I am wondering are the spars hardwood? Yes they are

What size are they - 1/8" x 3/8"? Yes

Any shear webs on the front (LE) side of the spars? on one side only except at the joiner box... but I beefed up my boxes - thats the only reason my wings boxes held up - instead I get compression damage....

I know I did a high speed dive - I did a few I think - It was sooooooo far away I couldnt tell what direction I was going....but I did dive it

sierra-gold

Mar 19, 2005, 10:47 PM

Thanks for the answers.

I'm going to beef up the shear webs on one side with ply and the joiner boxes on two sides. We'll see how that works. :rolleyes:

I have a BOT kit, guess I'll start building the wing here shortly.

SG

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 10:50 PM

Sierra

Good thing to do. Also - I glued the joiner bars with epoxy into the outer panels then worked on making them fit snug (very) into the center panel - this way I didnt worry about beefin up the outer panels since gluing them in most likely made them stronger..... and they show no signs of problems (not yet)

Ollie

Mar 19, 2005, 10:58 PM

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/design/oliverwilson_zoomproofwing.htm
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/design/oliverwilson_quicksparstrengthcalc.htm

eightwgt

Mar 19, 2005, 11:03 PM

Ollie

Thanks for the link - that was GOOD information..... I was thinking about making a foam/ balso center panel to replace my wood one simply because I could make templates fast on my CNC, then hot wire a core and veneer it.....

Thanks for the link again...very useful information....... and I love that engineering stuff !

Tom

Ollie

Mar 20, 2005, 05:12 AM

Your plan won't work unless the spar is included. The spar must be of design strength, stiffness, size, taper and good wood or carbon. The good wood can be many, many times stronger than poor wood. The good carbon can be as much as 5 times stronger than poor carbon. You must apply the all (not just my two clues) engineering stuff with wisdom.

The ARF BOT did not use engineering stuff with wisdom.

eightwgt

Mar 20, 2005, 08:39 AM

Ollie,

If I replace the center panel I planned on putting a spar in it.... I guess I need to run some numbers on it..... but I do plan on adding in a safety margin -
Any ideas Ollie ?? Id love to hear your idea of a proper spar on it
Tom

solo6796

Mar 20, 2005, 08:55 AM

This one works very well.... You will get MUCH better results by building a new wing than any you can get in trying to modify the ARF. Been there, done that, and spent just about as much money and time either way...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269207

AJ

eightwgt

Mar 20, 2005, 09:07 AM

AJ

Id like to build the wing only....

You dont like my idea of replacing the center panel huh ?? I was doing the easy way out.

How can I get a wing only kit ?? =)

By the way - that is one beautiful Bird Of Time

solo6796

Mar 20, 2005, 09:16 AM

Laser cut ribs here for $25. Plans are available.

http://www.soaringspecialties.com/botribkit.shtml

A single piece center section without those joiner boxes, will be a lot stronger. The existing joiners for the tip panels will have to be beefed up a little and given better tolerances, in order to keep them removable and still have some strength there.

It could work. And will give ya some more experience building...

AJ

eightwgt

Mar 20, 2005, 09:20 AM

It could work. And will give ya some more experience building...

AJ

I have experiance - I have built several planes, Including the 2M Kestrel, 2M Riser - both build up kits, as well as my own stuff (balsa sheeted foam wings) and a flying wing.... Ill go look at that kit....

Ollie

Mar 20, 2005, 09:49 AM

"Any ideas Ollie ?? Id love to hear your idea of a proper spar on it
Tom"

Convince me the trouble I work to convince you take advice.

solo6796 gives good advice. I give good advice many times. How times does it take you to learn to take good advice? Spending? Science? Engineering? Facts?

eightwgt

Mar 20, 2005, 10:05 AM

Ollie

I plan on taking the advice !! I am just weighing my options is all. I am a little space challenged for building a 3M wing from scratch right now - thats the main reason I thought about creating a new center section.

I plan on building a new wing - I like this plane too much and had too much fun specking it yesterday to leave it in the closet !

solo6796

Mar 20, 2005, 10:43 AM

sierra-gold

Mar 20, 2005, 11:05 AM

That is my plan - some beefing up of the ARF wing as described in my earlier posts, very casual EP launch sport flying, and a "slow build" of a replacement wing.

Does anyone know if the laser cut ribs available will build in/on the Dynaflite kit wing parts/plans? Or do they only "work" with the original BOT plans from RCM?

I also like the ARF fuse and tail feathers. :) It is large enough to hold EP components in the nose.

Have been a big fan of the BOT since the early 80s when I first saw it. I love the look of it in the air... it's addictive.

SG

eightwgt

Mar 20, 2005, 11:09 AM

In the meantime, If you're flying it with the stock wing, even with mods in it, I would take extra care to keep from overstressing it. That is a nice fuse and tail on the arf, and a wing failure will trash the rest of the plane........

AJ

AJ

With the damage my wing suffered - I wont fly it again until I do something to it.... I will most likely start build a new one SOON

I would like to figure out if the tips are worth saving - they had no damage. If so for the time being I may do as I said and make a new center section - at least I could fly it....

sierra-gold

Mar 20, 2005, 11:15 AM

eightwgt -

What plans will you use to build the new center section? I believe I have read that the Dynaflite kit wing differs from the ARF wing, but I'm not sure in what ways it differs. The RCM original plans I'm sure differ from the ARF also. :confused:

I'm going to have to pull my Dynaflite kit off the shelf and study the plans and check out the provided ribs and wood.

SG

solo6796

Mar 20, 2005, 11:32 AM

Does anyone know if the laser cut ribs available will build in/on the Dynaflite kit wing parts/plans? Or do they only "work" with the original BOT plans from RCM?

I also like the ARF fuse and tail feathers. :) It is large enough to hold EP components in the nose.

Have been a big fan of the BOT since the early 80s when I first saw it. I love the look of it in the air... it's addictive.

SG

I used the Dynaflyte Kit plans for mine with the Voss ribset. Worked out fine.
BoT's ALL look good overhead!

AJ

Ollie

Mar 20, 2005, 12:26 PM

If you want a design of a new center wing section to match of the original tips, start the wing airfoil max thickness in inches. Second, find the jointer sizes, parts measures of Aluminum, wood and strength of types. With the strength of the jointer between tip and center we can make four times for the center joint and the taper of the center panels strength. After you make the all measures, types and gave them to me, I can give you the next steps.

eightwgt

Mar 20, 2005, 04:33 PM

Ollie

Thanks - I will do just that. I will not be home tonight but will do it tomorrow

Tom

bobby legue

Mar 20, 2005, 05:11 PM

I think I have an idea for spar strengthening from a plane I built a long time ago. Maybe it was a paragon or the astro jeff. which ever plane it was the plan was to fill between the spars and the webbing with epoxy. That plane never blew up even in the most powerfull lift, and I always zoomed my plane upon launch. To accomplish the filling of the spars I would fill several bays where accessible, to calibrate the amount, then drill a small hole in top sheeting and inject epoxy with my wifes meat marinade injector, itis nothing more than a hypadermic syringe with a large bore needle. you of course will have to stand the wing on its leading edge until the epoxy sets. if you drill the holes in line they can be covered with a single piece of stripping tape. The additional weight of the epoxy may scare some of you but dont forget that it is on the center of balance and the plane could use the extra ballast anyway. Ihave used this on other planes and have noticed almost no difference in the turning radius or response time. The trick is to MAKE SURE YOU TURN THE WING OVER AND BALANCE IT EXACTLY!! [ You can use epoxy for this procedure also. Only in the outer most bay.] Lest you create a plane that gently arcs into the soil in a gut wrenching thud! But thats another story. [Ill sure miss the chance to fly the "mystery ship" by bob martin.] I would like feedback on this post as it was developed when carbon fiber and kevlar wasnt available for modelers. Thanks, Bob in AZ

ejett

Mar 20, 2005, 08:50 PM

Sierra-gold:

The ARF has a 3 piece wing and the kit has the original 2 piece rubber-band-on wing.

EJ

bobby legue

Mar 21, 2005, 10:34 PM

sierra-gold

Mar 21, 2005, 10:50 PM

Sounds like Dynaflite has done something towards the joiner box problem.

I just put a "sistered" 1/8" ply on both sides... FG wrap sounds stronger to me and I would leave it alone and just double up with vert. grain webs.

SG

sierra-gold

Mar 21, 2005, 10:52 PM

Sierra-gold:

The ARF has a 3 piece wing and the kit has the original 2 piece rubber-band-on wing.

EJ

"They" are always plotting against me! :(

SG

eightwgt

Mar 21, 2005, 10:54 PM

Can you post a picture of the joiner box ?? I think everyone would like to see it

Ollie

Mar 22, 2005, 01:07 AM

Tom,
You promised me measurements of the wing center panels for tonight. When?

eightwgt

Mar 22, 2005, 07:33 AM

Ollie

Ill get it today, My wife and 2 children have caught a 24 hour 'bug' - I wont get into details but its not pretty ! Yuk !

I am praying that I avoid getting it !

eightwgt

Mar 22, 2005, 08:24 AM

Ok here is what I have so far Ollie :

Airfoil ROOT 9.8"
Center Panel (wing section) size is 23 7/8" X 2
Total just shy of 48 when joined...

Max Thickness .945"

JOINER ;

.53" Height
.39" Thickness

.075" Aluminum X 2
.105" Ply X 2

Aluminum on outside, glue together with 5 minute Epoxy

I do not know the strength of the ply, and aluminum and I have been looking for a chart on the net and still looking

ejett

Mar 22, 2005, 09:42 AM

I opened up my bird [arf] center wing section and found the shear webs as reported running the wrong way. I also found my joiner boxes wrapped with a thick layer of fiberglass and epoxy, I dont see this in the photos nor have I read about it in the threads. Does anybody else have this? maybe the boxes dont need anymore beefing up, just the webs. What do you all think? Thanks for your reply. Bob

I wonder if they have done anything about the weak center section as well.

If you are pulling the covering on the wing, I would suggest that you fiberglass the wing center with one layer of FG cloth on the bottom and two layers on the top. This will help the center section strength significantly.

EJ

Ollie

Mar 22, 2005, 10:55 AM

We need the spar caps (top and bottom) crossection for the tips or old center panels. Thickness of balsa sheet D-tube. Weight of old tips? Weight of jointers between the tip and center panels? Please, guess the type of wood in the old spar caps. Space between old top and bottom spar caps?

The design will be based on the wing bending load and twisting load distribution, tip to tip. The wing mass distribution for light tips and for strong, stiffness & strength at maximum center line.

eightwgt

Mar 22, 2005, 11:02 AM

Ok.......

Let me get back to ya

John Gallagher

Mar 22, 2005, 02:56 PM

I opened up my bird [arf] center wing section and found the shear webs as reported running the wrong way. I also found my joiner boxes wrapped with a thick layer of fiberglass and epoxy, I dont see this in the photos nor have I read about it in the threads. Does anybody else have this? maybe the boxes dont need anymore beefing up, just the webs. What do you all think? Thanks for your reply. Bob

Bob,
That's one of the new and improved models. Rather than actually fix the design, they just slapped some fiberglass on it.

bobby legue

Mar 22, 2005, 11:28 PM

Can you post a picture of the joiner box ?? I think everyone would like to see it
Im sorry can't - dont have a digital camera. I can tell you that the plane was purchased in the fall of last year [in november] through tower hobby. I have put 1/8 inch lite ply over spar webs and will put glass tape on center section, two layers one at 3 inches wide and one at 5. the center section was placed on the backs of two chairs and I placed a ten pound weight on it and it bent slightly but didnt break. the monocote was somewhat wrinkle but not to bad. This was done without the bottom covering. buy the way the glass tape on the spars is 1 and 1/2 inches wide and is located at the rear of the box and is ay least two layers deep. Hope this helps.

bobby legue

Mar 22, 2005, 11:30 PM

Bob,
That's one of the new and improved models. Rather than actually fix the design, they just slapped some fiberglass on it.
Maybe so, also I should report that the joiners were so tight I had to grind them down to a snug fit.

eightwgt

Mar 24, 2005, 02:25 PM

Guys

I am giving up on my damaged wing..... I am too paranoid Ill just get it up and have it fail. I was going to glass the top but instead of messing with it Im cutting a foam wing for it this weekend.....

Just have to decide on sheeting thickness etc... Ill stick with the Clark Y airfoil, to gull wing or not to gull wing - that is the question !!

Ollie

Mar 24, 2005, 02:47 PM

eightwgt,
I'm finished with you.

Kwok_Yu

Mar 24, 2005, 03:48 PM

eightwgt

Mar 24, 2005, 04:40 PM

Ollie - Why did you say that ?

The reason I was scraping the replacement of the center section idea is based largely on what you and others said.... you yourself said that I should just build a wing from scratch so I thought Id do just that ? If you think I can honestly replace the center section by all means let me know and I will because quite honestly Id rather do just that !!!

I do not want you to think I am 'all over the place' on this plane - I simply want to feel good about flying it without a worry as to the wings structure....