Sufficient radio for advanced Thermal Flight

[Riodiler1]

I’m transitioning from a rudder/elevator ship using two channels to a more advanced ship that has rudder, elevator, ailerons and flaps and I’d like to properly connect each aileron and flap servo to the receiver. I understand that each servo will get its own hook-up to the receiver so that would mean that my receiver will have the following separate hook-ups: battery, Lh wing aileron, Rh wing aileron, Lh wing flap, Rh wing flap, rudder, elevator and they will be computer “mixed” in some fashion.
I own a Futaba T6XA and a Hitec Flash 5 radio and my question is…are either of those two radios capable of the hook-ups stated in the previous paragraph? In other words, can I use one of those radios and not have to use y-connectors or servo reversing harnesses? I’m new to the advanced thermal ships so that’s why I’m asking.
Thanks
Andre

[aeajr]

No, you can not handle that hook-up on those radios. The Flash doesn't have enough channels and the Futaba doesn't handle 4 servo wing mixes.

Having said that, either radio can fly that plane.

ON the flash, you set the ailerons on 1,5 and I think you can have differential ailerons mix, but not sure.

elev 2, rud 4

Flaps go on 3 and I think you put them on a 3 position switch. On the switch I believe you can invoke elevator compensation for the flaps. Flaps would be on one servo or would be run with a Y cable.

Futaba is similar, I believe. My friend flies a full house Spirit 100 and a 3M scale sailplane on that radio. Not sure what mixes he is using. I think he has R mixed to A and I think he has E mixed to flaps but not sure.

You could fly it with a 4 channel radio

R/E/A/F each on one channel. You would have to do ailerons on Y cable adn flaps on Y cable.

Hitec Eclipse 7 can do some 4 servo wing mixing

Futaba 9C can fully handle what you descirbed. That is why I bought it.

[BrianSmith]

I have flown a number of full house ships on a Futaba 6XAS..It is a stretch at best..You have to Y the flaps and roll one servo over so they are both facing the same direction..Saying all that..It can be done, 'BUT" if there is any way for you to afford a "sailplane " radio (9C) designed for full house ships I certainly suggest you do so.. A stylus, an older Vision, both shift selectable, or also a JR 9303 would be nice..They would all be a great investment for the future if you hope to soar for any length of time..My 2 cents..Brian

[Robglover]

Like they said - you can fly it, but it would be easier for you and take better advantage of the plane to go with a different radio. I've been real happy with my JR9303. I've also got a Stylus, Profi 4000, Royal Evo, and i Used to fly Visions. They will all do what you need.

[aeajr]

Let me add some comfort and some info here.

Let's be clear. You don't NEED a new radio.

I can fly a full house sailplane on a standard 4 channel radio. No problem. Ailerons on 1(Y cable) , elevator on 2, flaps on 3 (Y cable) and rudder on 4. I can fly it all day like that. And, if I want to, I can throw in some mechanical magic to mix rudder to ailerons and set up elevator compensation on the flaps. However with the popularity of computer radios, those trays and slides may be hard to find, and probably expensive.

What you have will work just fine, so don't go into a financial depression. You can fly that plane with those radios and have a wonderful time for years. People flew full house ships long before there were computer radios. So don't think you are in any way constrained.

The Flash has a glider set-up that really does a lot with 5 channels. I don't know the Futaba as well, but I know sailplane pilots who use it.

Before I got the 9C, I flew my full house plane on a Hitec Prism 7X. The Prism can do a bit more than your 6XA, but still can't handle a 4 servo wing.

I had to mount the flap servos differently and use a Y cable. It didn't prevent me from
having a wonderful time.

I went to the 9C because I am committed to sailplanes in a big way and want all the flexibility I can get. I also do some light contest flying. Nothing real serious, but enough to justify ( we really have to justify ) a more advance radio than what I had.

The key thing I lacked on the Prism was the ability to conveniently mix the elevator to the flaps for compensation during landing. The radio could do it, but it was on a dial that was located in a very inconvenient place which made it difficult to use. Again, I was going to get a new radio anyway (my birthday was coming up. :D ) so I did a lot of research. The ability to handle 4 servo wings for sailplanes, or sport planes, is a significant dividing line in the radio market and there is a price jump when you add this feature.

Some of the high end radios can handle 6 servo wings.


Look over your manuals. Here are the mixes I would look for in the priority I would want them. Others might disagree with the order, but we all have our preferences.

Elevator to flap compensation, sometimes called landing mode - very helpful on landing. The safer and easier you can land, the more flights you can get int. When you pop the flaps, the elevator is mixed in to help keep the plane level. You can do it manually, but it is tricky. Could be on a three position switch or proportional on the throttle stick. This can be done with the flaps on a Y cable.

Differential ailerons - the up aileron moves more than the down aileron - this requires the ailerons on two channels - your radios can do that. This helps reduce drag which allows the plane to fly more efficiently.

rudder to aileron mixing. - automates coordinated turns which again goes to efficient flying. Usually you can override manually with the flip of a switch, or by moving the rudder stick.

Launch mode - have a preset for flaps down, say 30%, ailerons down 15% and some elevator compensation up or down, depending on the plane. This maximizes the wings lift during launch at the expense of drag, but when you are going up the winch or hi-start you can afford the trade-off. Then flip the switch to return to normal flight before you zoom and release. I use this on every flight. This requires 3 servos in the wing.


Every thing else after that is gravy.

There are lots of others, but these are the four I would look for on your current radios, in the order I would suggest you seek them out. I know the Flash can do at least two of them. Then go fly until YOUR birthday, then get a Futaba 9C, an airtronics stylus, an EVO 9, A JR 83XX or 93XX or one of the other radios that handles 4 servo wings and has sailplane programming.

Here are a few other mixes that the 9C and higher radios can add. Wonderful tools but for the sport flyer they are not necessary.

Coordinated Flaps - You can add the flaps to the ailerons so that the flaps move with, and coordinate with the ailerons The flaps become extensions of the ailerons for more control surface movement. Sometimes the flaps are set at 50% of the aileron movement.

Likewise, the ailerons can be made to follow the flaps to multiply the effect
of lowering flaps. This requires a minimum of three servos, two on the
ailerons and one on the flaps.

Flapperons - Ailerons can act as flaps, if you don't have flaps, for landing
control. These are known as flapperons which is a change in assignment of the
surface from aileron behavior to flap behavior. This requires two servos for
the ailerons.

Flapperons - when you don't have ailerons, flaps act like ailerons. Found this idea being used on a R/E
Flap sailplane. If you hit this link and read from post 49, you can see how
this is used. Interesting idea.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289216&page=4&pp=15

Differential Spoilers - You can take spoilers, these reside at the top of the
wings, and tie them to the aileron function. Now you have your spoilers at
different heights causing a roll effect.

Camber Changing Trailing Edge - On sailplanes they use a mix where the
ailerons follow the flaps to move the whole trailing edge down for a camber
changing effect, essentially changing the shape of the wing while it
is flying. This changes the glide characteristics of the plane.
Again, a minimum of three wing servos is needed to do this.

Sailplanes also have a set-up called "Crow" where both ailerons go up while the flaps go down. Usually the elevator is mixed in to handle any tendency of the plane to balloon up or dive when you pull this mix. This really slows the plane down to help with precision landing.

Some sailplane pilots mix the flaps to the elevator when they are in a thermal to create a flatter climb while in a thermal. You create more drag, but you get more lift. When you in the thermal it can be a good trade-off. Some set two or three levels of this. I have been playing with it.

Read this only if you like to dabble in deeper technical stuff. This article
is on advanced set-up of a full house sailplane. Definitely not something a
beginner, or even a many experienced airplane pilots need to do. This is more
for competition pilots, but if you like to look at some of the advanced stuff,
this might be fun. It is a translation, so take your time as you read it.
http://www.gliders.dk/triming_and_setup_of_a_glider_wi_eng.htm

Is this a fun hobby, or what?

[CloudyIFR]

For what it's worth.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34056&item=5962668672&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It's not mine nor do I know the guy selling. I just did a search on Ebay for ya.

Curtis

[arcavasion]

AEAJR,

That was a really informative post, thank you for taking the time and clearing up some of the confusion on the different mixes for sailplanes, especially servo requirements.

I also have a 9C, but do not have a full house plane yet, just a GP spirit and a Valenta models "Fredy" T tail rudderless sloaper. I have mixed spoilerons in the 9C for landing the Fredy. I have not flown the Fredy yet as I need to find a good slope somewhere in new england.

[charnwooduk]

that was a good informative post.....

my biased opinion (because i own one) is for an evo9, because it does not have fixed channel assingments (you dont HAVE to use channel1 for elevator, you assign it to whatver channel you like etc)

i think the evo is far more flexible than any of the jr/futaba radios... but the programming methods are a bit harder to get your head round

[aeajr]

AEAJR,

That was a really informative post, thank you for taking the time and clearing up some of the confusion on the different mixes for sailplanes, especially servo requirements.

I also have a 9C, but do not have a full house plane yet, just a GP spirit and a Valenta models "Fredy" T tail rudderless sloaper. I have mixed spoilerons in the 9C for landing the Fredy. I have not flown the Fredy yet as I need to find a good slope somewhere in new england.

I also have a spirit. I have elevator compensation mixed with the spoilers so the plane comes down nice and level when I pop the spoilers.

[nuevo]

I've seen ONE person do well flying a full-house plane without any mixing. And he did it well. It can be done, but you had better remember (every time) to shove the elevator down a lot when you pull the flap stick. If not, the plane will nose up and stall at low altitude.

The most important mix that IMHO you absolutely need is flap -> elevator compensation. After that, everything else is minor in comparison.

All of the other mixes have their uses, make your plane more versitile, and much more competitive if you do contests. The high end radios also reduce the pilot workload by automatically enabling a whole mess of mixers all at once when a single switch is thrown.

[R. Carver]

my biased opinion (because i own one) is for an evo9, because it does not have fixed channel assingments (you dont HAVE to use channel1 for elevator, you assign it to whatver channel you like etc)


At the risk of starting a radio war, how is this an advantage over one with predefined channel assignments? Just curious...

[jgleigh]

IMHO, the real flexibility of the Evo is the ability to assign any control input (stick, switch, ...) to any output.

[aeajr]

At the risk of starting a radio war, how is this an advantage over one with predefined channel assignments? Just curious...

Just flexability.

On many radios, especially when you get into high channel counts, you really can't use channel 3 as it is locked to the throttle stick and we usually use that stick to contol other mixes, like flap to elevator. So you lose proportional control of channel 3.

Some will let you move 3 to a switch for on/off of a motor or to use channel 3 for a two hook release while the stick controls some other mix. However a EVO would let you put it wherever you like. You can make more efficent use of your channels this way, but you pay for the flexability.