Aquila Grande plans out of the closet (FINALLY!!!!)

[ferincr]

I finally managed to get up to date with all the other dutties and managed to get the plans out to start cutting some wood.
I got some decent looking pinewood yesterday, I cut the spars and LE's and they look pretty good to me.
Got the rib set cut too, and cap strips material.
I'm trying to get as much precut as possible so as soon as I make my decision for a working surface I start assembling.
I stripped all the old paint out of the fuse and made a pod to make a polycarbonate canopy.
This will be a slow building as I'm in and out too often.

The other day I went to the beach and it was painful to see a flock of like 30 brown pelicans catching up a thermal of several hundred feet until I almost lost them and then jumped to another one only to be followed by another flock as big of vultures and great friggate birds.
I got sun burned just looking at them.

[Esprit2]

... and made a pod to make a polycarbonate canopy.
Polycarbonate (PC) is great stuff, but it's more difficult to vacuum form than a lot of alternative materials. It's a high temeperature plastic, and it's difficult to get clear PC up to temp with radiant heat... most of the energy just passes right through it. Opaque PC (black especially) would be easier to vacuum form, but who wants to go to all that trouble for an opaque canopy.

Acrylic (aka Plexiglass, Perspex, etc) is easier to vacuum form. The original Airtronics canopy used Butyrate which is even easier to form. Two liter beverage bottles are made of PETG (a type of polyester) that vacuum forms readily... maybe not as easily as Butyrate. Find a beverage bottle with minimal contour (just a nice cylinder) and you can cut it up to get all the plastic you need for a canopy.

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.

Tim

[ferincr]

Yep, I heard that poly is a hard one but I have to go with what I can get around here.
It wont hurt to give it a try, may be if I help it to keep hot with a heat gun while I'm trying to vac it.
Today I managed to get cab-o-sil at a local store (amazing!!!) but they sell 1 kg min. so I'm thinking about hosting a cab-o-sil party at home, I think I have enough to fill the tub with it.

I borrowed a digital toy camera to get some pics but it looks like it's too cheap so I'm not sure I'll be able to post pics of the building yet.

[ferincr]

Obviously 20 years out of the building table makes things a bit more trickier.
I'll need to learn how to deal with that CA glue...

[ferincr]

Today I finished the wing rod receiver in both panels, and also jointed the main and outer panels (no pics of that yet)

[ferincr]

yestrday I finished the tail feathers and worked on the fuselage (what a mess with all that epoxy) I don't enjoy that part.
Today I'll start on the antivortex wing tips, lets see how they look at the end.

[ejett]

Looking great Fernando. I notice that my AG has a fairly strong stall characteristic compared to other planes in my stable, but it has not shown any significant tip stall problems and flies very nicely.

I don't think you will have to build new wings. Just keep the nose level or down when low to the ground and you'll be fine I think.

Those planes are sure pretty in the bones like that. Thanks for the pictures.

EJ

[ferincr]

Thanks Ed,
That AG wouldn't be there if it wasn't for you.

[ferincr]

Polycarbonate (PC) is great stuff, but it's more difficult to vacuum form than a lot of alternative materials

Well, I should be smater and listen to the ones with experience.
For being the first one that cok* bottle did pretty well.
he only problem with the soda bottles is that nothing really glues them
I also found today a store that sell acetate, I tried a piece over the stove and it seems to melt pretty easy.
I'll give it a try to see what happens.
Fernando.

[Esprit2]

Fernando,
A minor point, but Coke bottles are polyester, not polycarbonate. Polycarbonate is a higher temperature material which makes it more stable in hot sunlight. However, that same hi-heat resistance also makes it more difficult to vacuum form.

But the key point is that both PE and PC are difficult to glue. I prefer a soft, tacky adhesive rather than a rigid glue like CyA or epoxy. I'd use RC56 or Forumla 560 as my first choice. Or a high temperature rubber cement like the stuff automotive upholstery shops use to install glue-in headliners. Or a hi-temp transfer tape like 3M's VHB structural adhesive (no film carrier, just an adhesive layer with a peel-off backing on both sides). Canopy tape on sterioids.

Hmmm... just thinking. I wonder how Balsarite would work? Monokote is polyester film, and Balsarite glues PE covering films down quite nicely. It probably doesn't have enough body to deal with slightly irregular surfaces (?). That may be worth a test strip just to see what happens. I wonder if I have any Balsarite left?

The Acetate may work... I haven't tried it. It's certainly used for vacuum forming, but I might have a concern about it not being sufficiently hi-temp. The canopy is a little green house. Sitting on the flightline on a very sunny day it could get quite hot inside. Or if the fuselage is left inside a car on a hot day, the acetate may deform. In a sunny climate like yours, that should be a consideration.

I like your pilot... Wallace.

Good luck,
Tim

[ferincr]

I like your pilot... Wallace.

Yep, and it has the perfect expresion on the face to be a pilot in one of my planes too.
Tim,
Thanks for all the advice on glues and materials.
I'm just starting with all this and I'll spend a lot of time experimenting with what I can get hold of.
Anyway I'm in a break now, I'll go to the US in May and will buy all the suff needed to cover the wings (materials and tools) and probably a new radio sys. The one I have is the old futaba with only two working servos left so I need servos anyway...
So, I might even start building the Aquila XL if I find some time before I go.
Fernando.

[Tim Jonas]

man....I love Aquilas.

[ferincr]

man....I love Aquilas[QUOTE]
You know what?
As I'm stuck at this point until I get covering materials & tools plus may be a new radio, a thought came to my mind today to start cutting pieces to make another set of wings and may be a wood fuse since the original one has a "repaired" crack that makes me a bit uneasy.
So, I might end up with another AG after all.
I love them too.

[ferincr]

[QUOTE A minor point, but Coke bottles are polyester, not polycarbonate.]
Sorry Tim, I was re-reading my post and I realize it wasn't clear.
I didn't mean the soda bottle was polycarbonate. I just went for the soda bottle because I found a 2.5 liter one, the 2.0 liter wouldn't do it.
When I talked about polycarbonate I was thinking about some corrugated roofing sheets that are quite common around here but I changed a roof at home the other day and gave it a try to a left over piece and is near impossible as it is quite thick.
If doable, would be pretty indestructible though.
I was afraid that soda bottles would be too thin but once formed and glued all around they seem to quite strong.
Anyway, just clarifying my previous post.
Fernando

[ferincr]

With a final weight of 63 oz.

[Vintageflyer]

Nice posts on the AG and great pics.

I have been given an old AG to restore but without the plans I assumed there was only tip dihedral. Now I can see its a poly wing!!! Can anyone tell me how much to bend the wing rods?
I have made them straight but in order to restore the AG to her former glory I'd better fit the correctly bent rods.
Will it fly with only tip dihedral?

cheers

VF

[Bax]

I'd have to check the plans, but I don't believe that the wing rods are bent. The tubes in the wing are slanted so that the proper amount of dihedral is present when the two wing halves are mounted.

[Vintageflyer]

Hi Bax
Thanks for such a rapid reply. I'll assemble the fus and wings and check. Perhaps the polyhedral is so slight I didn't notice it. I've only assembled the plane once after making new rods.

[Esprit2]

Bax is correct. The wing rods are straight and the center dihedral is built into the receiver tube/box in the root of the spar.

(7/32") 0.218" x 8.50" long = Aquila
(5/16") 0.312" x 8.25" long = Aquila Grande'

Regards,
Tim Engel

[Esprit2]

Perhaps the polyhedral is so slight I didn't notice it.
UPDATE / EDIT... I gave you the Aquila dihedral the first time. Sorry.

AQUILA GRANDE'
The center dihedral is 2.03 degrees per side. Mount the wings together without the fuselage, hold one panel flat, and it's 2 1/2" at the polyhedral joint.

Polyhedral is 10.10 degrees per side with respect to horizontal. 8.0 degrees if the inner panel is held flat and you just measure the tip. In the latter case, it's 3 7/16" at the tip rib.


AQUILA:
The center dihedral is 2.72 degrees per side. Wings mounted together and one panel held flat, and it's 2 13/16" at the polyhedral joint.

Polyhedral is 10.80 degrees per side with respect to horizontal. 8.07 degrees if the inner panel is held flat and you just measure the tip... 2 5/8" at the tip rib.

Regards,
Tim Engel

[Vintageflyer]

Thanks very much folks. I'll assemble the plane later and check out the angles.

Here's another query? Without a plan I am having to guess what arrangement to use for wing retainers. There are keyhole slots in the end ribs and corresponding holes in the fus. I thought I'd picture hooks soldered to washers or screwed/cyanoed to a small disc of hardwood and use rubber bands to pull the wings together. Old fashioned by modern standards I know, but tried and tested in the past.

Any thoughts?

[ferincr]

The AG has one wing rod and near the TE there is another guide rod (I think is 3/32) music wire. There are no keyhole slots.
I can e-mail you copies of the plans in photoshop format.
PM me if you want them.
Fernando

[Esprit2]

(snip)... Without a plan I am having to guess what arrangement to use for wing retainers.
The plans wouldn't have helped you anyway. They give no details on how to retain the wings.

(snip)... There are keyhole slots in the end ribs and corresponding holes in the fus.
Hmmm... there used to be an aftermarket wing retention mechanism that I think used a keyhole opening on one side of the joint. There was a black plastic part that was built into the wing root. Sticking out of the root rib was a plastic rod/ boss with a hooked end... sorta "L" shaped. Lastly, there was a lever that rotated the boss. The "L" tab went through the keyhole and was turned 90 degrees to latch behind the fuselage wall. When locked, the lever folded back flush along the bottom of the wing. Pull it down 90 degrees to unlatch.

(snip)... I thought I'd picture hooks soldered to washers or screwed/cyanoed to a small disc of hardwood and use rubber bands to pull the wings together.
That's about what I did on mine. I added a second brass tube across the fuselage in the wing root fillet and about1.5" behind the wing rod (similar to the wing rod tube, but not reinforced). Then I put screw-hooks in the wing root ribs with extra ply reinforcement inside the wing. Short steel coil springs were stretched between the screw hooks. It may be old technology, but it works great.

I've also seen folk just put tape across the root-fuselage joint. Really low-tech, but it works too.

Regards,
Tim Engel

[Vintageflyer]

Thanks Tim

The F3J flyers in our club all use tape to secure the outer wing panels of their Pike Superiors and Starlights so I might follow their example, but perhaps have the back up of the hooks and rubber bands.

cheers

VF

[ferincr]

I got a 40 minutes flight with my AG today :D :D
Here are some pics

[Sleedo]

Nice shots! Are those coffee trees that you're flying over? Costa Rica must be amazing for thermals, I was there a few years ago and was really impressed by the mountains/volcanoes. Beautiful plane.

Sleedo

[ferincr]

Are those coffee trees that you're flying over? Sleedo
No, that is a sugar cane field, my crashes are very sweet!
Fernando

[flybaby2000]

thats a very nice aquila , ive been trying to get a copy of those plans into the country for quite some time now , anyone out there want to make a copy for me.....

cheers
doug

[Esprit2]

Doug,

Are you interested in plans for the Aquila, or the Aquila Grande' ? Aquila plans are available from RC Modeler magazine's plans service, Plan 596 for US$15.50. You'll need some help with Grande' plans.

Some Aquila kits and all Grande' kits came with a fiber glass fuselage, so the kit plans included NO profile patterns for the sides, bottom or formers. Similarly, the Aquila kit with the built-up wood fuselage included all the special parts pre-cut, so minimal profile details are on those kit plans. The RCM magazine plans are intended for scratch building and include all the pattern profiles for all the cut parts.

The fuselage for the Aquila and Aquila Grande' are the same size. One minor difference is that the built-in wing root fillet is flat-bottomed on the Aquila fuse, and semi-symmetric on the Grande' fuse. An easy detail to rectify once you have the airfoil profiles from the Grande' plans.

I have original Airtronics Grande' plans, but they're buried in storage somewhere (I'm in an apartment between house moves). If someone else can help you with plans, go for it. IF not, you'll have to be patient for a while before I can lay my hands on them.

Regards,
Tim Engel

[flybaby2000]

thanks to fernando , i now have some aquila grand plans and im hoping to go to the printers this week and see if they can get them drawn up for me , it would be nice to get the originial aquila plans as i am hoping to build one traditionially with skip millers mod and a resserected cox/sanwa radio unit to go.

so if anyone has a set of aquila plans that i could get a photocopy of it would be very honourable ,

cheers
doug.

[Vintageflyer]

I flew my Aquila (from what has been posted above I now reckon it is the standard and not the Grande) for the first time the other day and it was terrific. I did a few softish bungee launches, just enough to check the trim, and it was almost spot on. Not bad for a plane more than 20 years old!
After a run of about seven good flying days here in the UK the wind has got up and I might have to wait a while before going for a full bore bungee launch and do a spot of thermal hunting.

[ferincr]

you might watn to build a set of wings with philips entry for those more windy days.
I'll be in London at the end of August, any hobby shops around that would worth to take a lot at???
What about English sailplanes kits????
Fernando

[Vintageflyer]

Hi Fernando

There are a few biggish model shops in London, but they tend to cater for all forms of model flying.
The sailplane specialists are here:
http://www.south-coast-sailplanes.com/

their base is well out of London but take a look at their website to see what they sell.

Most sailplane kits in the UK are imported from Europe but I think there might be a few UK made planes on the market.

I'll try to find out more.

[Vintageflyer]

I flew the 25-year-old Aquila for about six hours today...mostly in booming lift over our club field in the wilds of Essex UK. I was a little worried about damaging the wing spars and ribs when I released after hauling back for full-blooded bungee launches but she took it all in her stride.
A lovely aircraft and a joy to fly. I'd like to build a new one. Are kits still available or will I have to work from a plan?

cheers

VF

thanks to all the Aquila fans on these forums who helped me get her back in the air!!

[ferincr]

I'd like to build a new one. Are kits still available or will I have to work from a plan?
At the moment you'll need to build it from scratch, although there is this company (called aerosphere or something like that) that bought the license from the former DCH (apparently) but no date of release yet.
Fernando

[Vintageflyer]

I flew the old Aquila in a stronger breeze today and ,sadly, she started to show her age. I usually launch her off a bungee stretched to 60 paces, but because the wind was gusting above 10mph today I eased off a little. But after about six flights (most into booming thermals which needed dives and spins to escape from) I noticed that some of the balsa panels of the wing's sheeted leading edge had come adrift and cracks had appeared in the fus, at a previously repaired spot where the plane is held for bungee launches.
I think the wing will need to be completely stripped, re-sheeted and re-covered. I have used lightweight glass cloth and epoxy to cover over the cracks in the fus, but can't help feeling that a new fus would be a better bet. But where can I get one?

[flybaby2000]

you could make a plug of the exsiting fuselage ,or use the lost foam method and apply carbon into the matrix . Im sure that if you can make a plug , anything is possible , shame to hear about the originial fuse showing its age..

cheers
doug

[Vintageflyer]

Good idea Doug

I'm far from being an expert in working with fibreglass...but I know a man who is!! I'll show the Aquila fus to a club colleague who makes his own F3J machines and see if he can make a replacement using the original as a mould.

cheers

VF

[ferincr]

Good idea Doug

and see if he can make a replacement using the original as a mould.

cheers

VF
I think he'll need to use the original fuse to make the mold and then from there make the other fuse.
I thought abuot doing it myself, but I'm not a FG expert either and I'm afraid of ruining the original fuse on the prossess and the other thing is i'm not sure it's worth all the fuss to make one or two more fuses only.
Anyway, good luck
Fernando

[flybaby2000]

its not too scary once the mould is done , actually once the mould is done im sure you could make alot of fuses .. i mainly fly slope gliders and i have seen the methods done to death .. it would be great if you could back engineer the aquila , as the one could start selling kits from the progress..

cheers
doug

[Vintageflyer]

Sadly , I have now badly damaged the Aquila fus. The nose is crumpled and the previously repaired area just behind the wing root has broken again, in several places. In addition,one wing tip has almost been wrenched off. For some strange reason the poor old girl refused to release the bungee ring and piled nose-first into the deck from about 50ft after veering left on the line. I tried to dive her off by applying full down but it was just too late.
So now I would definitely like a replacement kit, or even just a fibreglass fus.
I have had a look at an Oly II kit as a possible replacement. In fact, it would be great to buy and build both an Oly and an Aquila.
Anyone know when Aerosphere might relaunch the Aquila or A Grande kits?

cheers

VF

[ferincr]

Sadly , I have now badly damaged the Aquila fus. The nose is crumpled and the previously repaired area just behind the wing root has broken again, in several places. In addition,one wing tip has almost been wrenched off. For some strange reason the poor old girl refused to release the bungee ring and piled nose-first into the deck from about 50ft after veering left on the line. I tried to dive her off by applying full down but it was just too late.
So now I would definitely like a replacement kit, or even just a fibreglass fus.
I have had a look at an Oly II kit as a possible replacement. In fact, it would be great to buy and build both an Oly and an Aquila.
Anyone know when Aerosphere might relaunch the Aquila or A Grande kits?

cheers

VF
I'm sorry to hear that. :( :( :(
Actually I got close to the same position today with my AG!
It was gusty and the AG refused to get off the hook, after a couple of turns and the line wrapped around the fuse I managed to unhook at about 30 ft from the ground (just enough).
Previously I almost lost my AXL on a crash on some trees, fortunately it crashed on the last line of trees 15 more feet and It would have gone white water rafting without the raft. :eek:
Fernando

[Kevin Matney]

If there is a needs for Aquila Grande Epoxyglass fuses I will make a mold I have a wood body I will mold of.

[Polar]

Hi ;

If you make a mould I'll order one a once

Polar :)

[Vintageflyer]

I've heard there is a company in the US planning to rekit the Aquila with a glass fibre fuselage.

[fly1milehi]

As far as I know the Airtronics line is still copy right protected and as such recreating a mold to knock of copies of the A-Grande is not going to make the current owner of the rights very happy. It was available through DreamCatcher who closed. Not sure if/when/where it will be available from the new owners

Greg

[fly1milehi]

Looks like this is the only contact available for the Aquila line of glass fuselages.
info@aerosphere.aero

good luck

[Miraj]

I've always liked the Aquila Grande, but wasnt quick enough to get one before they stopped production.
A quick question, if you where to buy the plans of the 100' version from R/C modeler magzine ( http://www.rcmmagazine.com/e/env/0001MOUZJL8M1jQEiE8T605/store/store-plans-list-5.html?link=/store/store-plans-catalog-tem.html&item=plans:pl-596 )
and scale it up to grande specs with the mods that dreamcatcher had, you would have to be close. Well for except the fuselage unless you did a lost foam method.

Am I way off track or do you think this would work?

M

[djnibler]

If I remember correctly, the Grande used the same fuse and tails as the 100" version... only the wing was different. I'm only 80% sure of this though... can someone else verify this?

[ejett]

The horizontal stabs are slightly larger and the construction is a little different as well. I can't remember for sure if the rudder is any larger. If it is, it isn't much. And the wing rod is 5/16 dia.

EJ