depron Tornado pusher

[Stefan lamers]

This is my latest model. it is close to finishing, but the test flight will take another couple of weeks due to the fact that i don't have the ordered motor and battery packs yet.
lengt 85 cm
span 85 cm (fwd sweep)
empty weight painted aircraft 250 gram
AUW (estimate) 600 gram
Mega 16/15/4 6X4 prop with 2nd gen kokam 2000 mAh

[Esprit440]

Stefan, congratulations on another great looking jet! And a swing-wing too - very cool. Good luck with the maiden,

-Matt

[TBolt]

That is fantastic, WOW, can't wait to hear how she flies.

[experimental_pil]

That is one awsome jet!

[DiabloKid]

amazing work there! any chance for submitting plans for us? :)

matt

[Downwind3Zero]

Beautiful!! Just saw a documentary on Tornados on TV last night and thought it would be a nice project!!

regards
Chris

[bipeflyer]

Congrats on a fine piece of work there Stefan, you should be proud. Love wing swingers!
Good luck with flights,

Matt :)

[hummingbird111]

very nice job,,& a great looking plane,,:p

[GKK]

I'm very like your plane. But The short kit is to far to me Could you Email me a set of your plans. Thanks!!
pp_flymail@yahoo.com

[Oski]

Please, please post or make the plans for this available for sale!

Mike

[alf]

fantastic work, very nice

Greetings from Germany
Ralph

[PIV]

Thats one niece piece of work!

[Thomas Nelson]

Another very cool scratchbuilt model Stefan! Are you planning to run a shaft from the Mega to the prop?

[Stefan lamers]

Thanks everybody for the compliments, i'm actually very surprised myself on how it turned out.
As an experiment the mega will indeed use a 15 cm CF shaft, a universal joint and one bearing. this way i have no problems with my CoG and i don't need any battery extension leads so i hope to minimise glitching.
The wings are driven by one servo. In the fwd sweep the rods are inline with the screw of the bellcrank, in this way aerodynmic forces are not transmitted to the servo but to the fuselage, in aft sweep there will be a physical aft stop, so the wings can't go any further, so in both configurations there is no load on the servo itself. i used a mini servo (20 gram) and it doesn't seem to have any problem with actuating.

I did make templates, but first i want to see if it flies at all.
greetings
stefan

[Thomas Nelson]

Yeah - the internal structure pictured above suggested a motor mount amidships. With those huge horizontal stabilizers tailerons should work well.

I like your swing mechanism. Full sweep without loading the servo - good stuff. Hope she flies well for you. Hand-launch like your F-16?

[rcjetpilot]

Totally awesome! And really looking foward to hearing how things work out.

If I could only get past the fear of chopping my fingers up:)

Bob

[Tram]

That is one nice jet! I sure hope plans will be made available!

[RCDad]

Great job Stefan!!! I've been toying with the idea of modeling the tornado for a while. I'm very anxious to hear how the test flights go and info on all the control details. I'd love to build one if you make the plans available!

[Appie]

Cool plane Stefan,

I see you live in Groningen, where do you noramlly fly your stuff ??

When this one flies like it should the next one should be an EDF on, what do ya think............. :D

Succes,

Appie

[Hawker]

Great job Stefan! That's just beautiful! :D
I hope it flies well for you and if so, please post plans!! I'd build one in a
heartbeat. :) Btw, your canopy looks perfect! How'd you make it?

I took this picture of one in Iraq. Such cool looking jets.
http://hawker.smugmug.com/photos/2076422-M.jpg

[Woody_100]

Hi Stefan,
and just the other day I was thinking how cool it would be to have a depron Tornado!!!!
Very, very cool.
I for (another) one would love to build this plane.
Please make a set of plans.

Best of luck with your maiden..........

Ritchie

[Loefflerh]

Can't wait for plans either....would paint it in German camouflage ....would be so nice....got more than a 1000hrs in the real one.

Please .....Plans!
Hans

[Stefan lamers]

Hi appie
I usually fly at modelvliegclub Roden, or otherwise when i'm flying electric in a grassy field close to eelde.
And yes, once i've got this swing wing stuff figured out, this should become an EDF.
greetings
stefan

[Appie]

Stefan,

In the weekends i usaly fly in Odoorn, but i'm a member of RLC as well.

In the summer time, when the weather is good, i mostly fly in Roden on Monday-afternoon............

Grts,

Appie

[rdeters]

Excellent job Stefan! I've always liked the look of the Tornado. Keep us posted!

Ron

[Stefan lamers]

i'll just post some pictures, maybe there is someone that can use anything of it.
I wanted to create a wing with a symmetric profile instead of a flat plate wing(if not for any aerodynamic advantage, i think it looks cool).
How can you assure that both wings will be the same when you can not build it on a flat surface. i thought about aligning tabs and stuff, but didn't like it.
i came up with something. cut two pieces of 3 mm depron in the shape of the wing planform, smear glue only on the leading edge and trailing edge first centimeter, throw some books on top and let it dry.
prepare three pieces of 3 mm wide balsa and the lengt of the wingspan, if needed install strip of CF on middle balsa spar. Pry open the depron wing at the root and insert and glue the balsa spars. (i've tried it with depron spars but it takes too much force to push them in and they bend)
Make sure you have the grain of the depron top and bottom sheet the same otherwise it will not turn out symmetrical. Now it has a rather sharp leading edge, so for the tornado i cut of the leading edge and replaced it with a piece of balsa and sanded.
I am comparing apples and pears now but i did a test.
i took a piece of 6 mm depron (20 x 15 cm) and build a wing of the same measurements using this technique. The 6 mm weighs 7 gram, the construction weighed 12 gram. On the 6 mm i needed 400 grams of force to get 1 cm deflection, on the construction i put 4000 gram and still didn't have 1 cm deflection. of course when you install a CF rod in the 6 mm it will also hold, but then it will be heavier and still have no torsional strengt.
so i used it for the tornado in the wings and in the vertical fin.
greetings
stefan

[alf]

Hi all

here is a link for building a wing with profile, its only in german but the pictures say enough, i have tried it, it works very well :)

http://www.stechflug.de/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.stechflug.de/
under "Baupläne/berichte/Bau einer profilierten Depronfläche 2 (Update)

I hope, you can find it

i hope you understand my weak english, but i work on it :)

Greetings from Germany
Ralph

[Hawker]

Did you make your own canopy (vac formed) or buy it? Looks great Stefan. :)

[Thomas Nelson]

Hey Stefan - this approach works especially well with depron since it preserves the surface finish. I've use the same approach with my own depron F-16.

[Stefan lamers]

hi ralph
nice site, a lot of good ideas to work with depron.
greetings
stefan

[Stefan lamers]

Hi hawker
I made this one myself too, just like the one i made for my F16, with the thermoforming of a waterbottle. This one was on the limit though because of the lenght of the plug and the bottle without making it in two pieces.
greetings
stefan

[Stefan lamers]

Hi thomas
i didn't know that, now i'm really curious to see your plans and build description.
greetings
stefan

[Hawker]

Cool thanks for the canopy info. And the wing idea is great! I will add that to my mental toolbox. Thanks. :D

[i12flyrc]

Great thread! Of course you know once you've tackled the swing wing mechanism, the next jet beggingto be built is an F14. I can't wait to here how the flights go. The mechansim you've shown looks effective and simple! Would love to have a set of plans once you've posted these. Also, one other plane that would have to be done would be the "Bone" (B1 Bomber). :D

[Woody_100]

Hi Stefan,
Did you manage to maiden your plane yet?

Things have gone very quiet here for a while.............

[Stefan lamers]

No maiden yet, i'm still waiting for my ordered parts, also i have another project with higher priority. Will post everything as soon as i know it.
greetings
stefan

[RCParkflyer]

Any Up-dates Yet Stefan ?

[JagTor]

Stephan

Awesome! I flew a few missions on Mig Eater ZA447 (Tail code EA) back in the dark days of January 1991 from Tabuk Afld Saudi Arabia. No hard feelings out there still, I hope? If your interested, i could tell you the true tale of the 'Mig Eater' by private message. Would love an EDF version.

P.S. Never built with depron before, is it easier than balsa bashing?

Regards

JagTor :cool:

[Stefan lamers]

well, finally got around to make the first test flight. sunny day, light winds. all seemed perfect. It went totally wrong. I think the CofG was OK, i only had the throw for the roll taileron controls set way too high.
after the handlaunch all i tried to do was to gain control, level it and pull up to get some height. I did not get high enough and after 4 seconds it ended up in a tree. It took me some effort to get it back to the ground.
Damage wasn't even that bad. broken nose that's all. back to the building board for repair and after i'll try again.

next post will have a link to a very short videoclip

stefan

[Hans-Joachim]

One and a half hour work
and she will be back in the air tomorrow.

The weather will be good tomorrow! ;)

Greetings
Hans-Joachim

[Stefan lamers]

next is a link to a short piece of video

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22613&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Hi hans-joachim
thanks for the support.

greetings
stefan

[AceMigKiller]

Stefan,
Hey there, first of all I have to say that is ONE FINE LOOKING BIRD! Tragic that the maiden ended up in a tree...
Looks like it wants to fly but as you said, maybe the (tailerons?) were set too high? Also it looks ALOT like you were fighting Motor Torque there... did you launch at full throttle? I don't mean to sound like a critic or anything, just offering a second pair of eyes. I'd love to see this model fly like it should! And I know you can do it!
I know my F-5 Parkjet also fights torque if I launch at Full throttle and have since learned to launch at just above 1/2 throttle.
Good luck on the next flight!
I look forward to hearing about your success!
Victor

[AirX]

Wow, tiger by the tail. Nice video and at least it is repairable.

Eric B.

[Hawker]

Stefan,

My Prowler's first flight was similar in the beginning. Once I realized I had too much
roll, I just barely moved the right stick and that resulted in a nice flight.

It's a great looking jet you have there, rebuild, detune the ailerons and all should be
well. :)

[beanie]

hey stefan,
looks awesome! hope you get things sorted out. can you furnish more info as to what servo you are using for the swing mechanism? and also, can you elaborate on the motor mounting and (shaft driven i am assuming) and how you mounted the drive shaft to the motor shaft?
when you do get the wing sweep working in flight, please let us know if you have any difficulty getting the wings to go divergent. i have that problem on my mig-23. i have to head her up to the sky, bleed off some speed, and then drop the nose and then the wings will pop open the last few degrees to fully open. i've since upgraded to an hs-85mg for my next mig, but i'd be very interested to hear about your success with swinging the wings in flight.
-beanie

[logicalmetal]

Hi all

here is a link for building a wing with profile, its only in german but the pictures say enough, i have tried it, it works very well :)

http://www.stechflug.de/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.stechflug.de/
under "Baupläne/berichte/Bau einer profilierten Depronfläche 2 (Update)

I hope, you can find it

i hope you understand my weak english, but i work on it :)

Greetings from Germany
Ralph


tried around 20 times and then i can read it......a question is if the wing can keep it's profile when ur plane doing big G flying?

[Stefan lamers]

Hi beanie
In post #9 of this link http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390150&highlight=F18+LEF+ i describe how i made the same system for the F18 parkflyer as an experiment. it works well.
i use a micro servo for the swing wing system (1,5 kg/m) but my first flight didn't go that well so i have never tried to swing fwd during flight. I think it helps that the wings aren't directly connected to the servo but via a linkage that converts the 100 degree travel of the servo to a 30 degree movement of the wing.
But i will tell you if it works after the second flight.

hi logical metal
i don't know about the construction method described in that site as i have not used it myself yet (it looks strong tough) but the wing i made does not bend and is more torsion stiff than a flat plate wing.
greetings
stefan

[beanie]

thanks for the info stephan. where did you get the straight coupling to link the motor output shaft with the carbon fiber drive shaft?
-beanie

[Stefan lamers]

Hi beanie
i must revise my comment on the wing swing servo. it is a mini servo (18 grams) with 2 kg/m torque. The coupling was made locally in a machine shop, 3,2 mm on one side 5 mm on the other for the carbon shaft, everything is tightened with 4 little setscrews. To me a universal joint is not an option, there is too much slop and the vibrations are enormous. you just have to work out a way to line everything up without the use of a universal joint.
greetings
stefan