Berg 6 GIII rx: Pike Superior totalled

[bwanajim]

Man, I'm sticking to JR PCM from now on!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3396055#post3396055

Pics to come, when I can bear to look at this wrecked beauty long enough to photograph it.

--Jim Laurel
Seattle, Washington, USA

[fprintf]

Sorry to hear it Jim, that really stinks and honestly makes me want to stick with $200 built-up stick planes all that much more. Please do send along pictures, those are (were?) really nice planes.

[uabass]

Jim, Thanks for sharing it with us. Sorry about your loss.

I too think I will just stick with under $200 planes...at least for now. (My wife also thank you for that too)

[DFW_HLG_TG]

I built my own scanner using a Futaba rec. and tapping audio into the second if. A simple Radio Shack af amp supplied the audio. I could hear alot more with that setup than any scanner I tried. To change the Freq. you have to change the Xtal. Most scanners do not have the front end that our radios do and at alttitude is where it matters. At 72mhz, almost line of sight, 20 feet can make a diff.

[xtc]

Jim, Thanks for sharing it with us. Sorry about your loss.

I too think I will just stick with under $200 planes...at least for now. (My wife also thank you for that too)
it does seem that no-one can buy a sure thing when it comes to rx these days :rolleyes: i have also heard stories of the jr pcm rx that disturbs me
i think quality is taking a backseat to quantity in the case of the berg! greed seems to rule over reputation or is it that there are millions of bergs out there and we are only hearing of the faulty ones???
seems funny to me becuase my other tx/rx system to date that has never given me trouble is my old manual adjust airtronics spectra with pcm! were not getting any better at this tx/rx thing,,were just getting more features for less money on these new radio`s

is there a cadilac out there?? i mean are you ever really in full control regardless how tech you are??

im saying this out of frustration becuase not more than a week ago i recieved my first berg[so far fine] in hopes of trying to at least buy my way out of harms way???

i cant honestly even consider buying a moldy with these kinds of things taking place


xtc

[DFW_HLG_TG]

You can relax a little. I fly in a very RF noisy area. I used to fly Futaba, before I bought a Stylus a few years ago. Before Futaba I had an EK Logic ahhh 30 years ago. I am an Extra Class ham so i know a little about the subject. The only problems I have come across, I created. Antenna routing figured in most problems. RF coupling through the servo leads also was a problem. We also have a few channels in the area to avoid alltegether.

I kinda take a wait and see attitude on the new Micro stuff that lighter than air. I also stay away from PCM though I forget why. Dual conversin is a must and I stay away from syth. radios. It's hard to beat a crystal. The last plane damaged because of radio problems was in 1986, ahhhhhh I forgot to turn it on...doht.

[stephen.s1]

It was a test, and my Berg did just fine. The other guy's Berg did just as well.

I'm a believer. Use Bergs in hotliners, and 9ch.(w/expander) 3m LMR ships. Never a problem with 'em.

Of course, YMMV...

[DFW_HLG_TG]

I think you are about to get smoked cause that is impossible.

[fprintf]

It was a test, and my Berg did just fine. The other guy's Berg did just as well.
I'm a believer. Use Bergs in hotliners, and 9ch.(w/expander) 3m LMR ships. Never a problem with 'em.

Wow, that sounds great! Was this while flying or on the ground during range tests?

[xtc]

Wow, that sounds great! Was this while flying or on the ground during range tests?
ya,im interesting in hearing the answer to this too!

xtc

[stephen.s1]

Ask Felix, he was the other pilot...

Durham, last summer/fall...

[fprintf]

Ask Felix, he was the other pilot...

Durham, last summer/fall...

Done.

[FWFlyer]

Terrible to hear about the loss of any plane, let alone a beauty like that.

I have been a die-hard JR man for 17 years. Never had a problem. Just for kicks I bought 2 different Berg RX for fun. Neither one went into my "good" planes, but a Berg 5 dsp II went in my 2-meter Spirit and a Berg-4* DSP "Micro Stamp" went into the Fliing. Both planes flew fine. Both planes went to "speck". OK, a Fling at speck isn't that far. Still I can say that I won't throw either RX out. I still maintain JR is the best, but I can't complain about my Bergs.

[davidleitch]

Just to note I posted in the radio forum thread that this thread references, about the possibility of a faulty tx antenna. Apparently aerial segments can build up resistance over time and like the rest of the kit could be checked regularly. Just one of many possibilities.

[xtc]

Just to note I posted in the radio forum thread that this thread references, about the possibility of a faulty tx antenna. Apparently aerial segments can build up resistance over time and like the rest of the kit could be checked regularly. Just one of many possibilities.
can you elaberate on this as i had a duck antanna for a while and had many mysterious glitches etc until i just decided to put my old antenna back ,,havent had a problem since but everyone claims that those ducks are a good thing?
xtc

[fprintf]

ya,im interesting in hearing the answer to this too!

xtc

It was while flying both planes, both pilots had prior discussion before beginning the test. It was with handlaunch gliders on the same channel using EVO synthesized transmitters.

[xtc]

It was while flying both planes, both pilots had prior discussion before beginning the test. It was with handlaunch gliders on the same channel using EVO synthesized transmitters.


well after hearing that i am beginning to think that my hitec synthesized tx [eclipse] is the culpret

i fly bergs [two] and still have blanks and at times feel out of control

it may just be my tx but i bought bergs thinking that the indoor flying was just asking to much from my old hitec rx

here we have evo/berg mmmm good stuff eh??

xtc

[DFW_HLG_TG]

Unless one or both had the ability to switch channels in flight, they could not fly the same channel. It is just not possible.

[xtc]

Unless one or both had the ability to switch channels in flight, they could not fly the same channel. It is just not possible.

im not saying that your not right but from what i understand ,if one of the tx has a weaker signal than the other ,,the first tx [strongest] will filter out what it sees as bad signal [weaker signal]

i have no prove of this ,its just something i read

if you have more info on this please share,,im no expert but i do know that for the first time in 22 yrs i have had to really put my equimpment to the test with indoor flying and i have learned that it is pretty difficult to have a glitch feel system unless its top dollar stuff

most of all my flying has been alone in the country with no other tx`s i could even use a hitec feather! [close in]

another blurb i read the other day also mentioned something about antenna`s building up resistance?? whats up with that?? im also keen to know more about this as im retired and last yr alone a logged 125 hrs airtime but probliable double the tx time becuase i also used buddie boxes etc

you can also imagine how loose my antenna was getting :D[ i should say bent ,it was still tight to pull out]

i replace the original antenna with a duck [whip] and had even worse results

i know this is all a little off topic but you seem to have mentioned that you have some kind of active knowledge in this field??

thanks xtc

[DFW_HLG_TG]

The strongest signal recieved by a reciever will be accepted by the reciever. The reason we currently use FM is because FM recievers use what is called ( Capture Effect ) to process the data. The reciever is able to hear the strongest signal, lock on, and reject most other signals. Two recievers would both lock on to the same TX. I am sure most have seen what happens when another person turns on a TX on the same channel. One or both planes end up in the dirt as the recievers keep switching between which TX to lock on to.

About the Antenna. A full ant. is always better but a duck is ok for most applications. The problem with most stock ants. is they get dirty and built up capacitace between the sections. This in turn raises the SWR of the TX. causeing the power to be returned back into the TX. and disspersing in the form of heat or in worse case damaging the final transitors. In our low power applications the latter is rare. The best thing to do to a stock Ant. is to clean it with alcohol, never oil it.

[Ib Jensen]

Well I do know that the Bergs will lock on to one transmitter and reject another stronger signal because I tried it. I was using TX A when I turned on the Berg. It worked fine but I realized I had the wrong setup on TX A. I turned TX A off and turned on TX B. I got nothing, zero, zip response, even with TX B 3 feet from the Berg. I turned TX B off and turned TX A back on. Everything was fine, perfect response. I then turned off the Berg. Turned TX B on and then the Berg. Perfect response.

I almost lost my Airtech Psycho using a JR RX because I had accidentally left my backup TX turned on, in the car. As I came back along the slope near the parked car the Psycho went Psycho :eek: . I managed to land in some saplings with only minor damage to a leading edge. If I had been using the Berg (or some equivalent DSP receiver) I do not think this would have happened.

Ib

[DFW_HLG_TG]

There are several variables in your test to explain the results. DSP most likely would refer to that the signal is processed digitally. It is possible that when initiated, the signal first recieved contains and ID that the reciever listens for and processes only the signal with that ID. ( I am only guessing at this for I have not studied Berg technology. ) That would be a great idea and a very maketable upgrade to current recievers. It sounds great on paper and works like it should. However, the signal still occupies a specified bandwith which can be distorted or wiped out by another signal of any type.

The ultimate system, which I expect us to see in the future, would utilize a dual band, dual shift technology. The transmitter could recieve and the reciever could transmit. Both would have a dedicated freq. that they would seldom use, to handshake. When the reciever hears trouble it could tell the transmitter on the second band frequecy. The transmitter would have to shut down for a second, scan the band, then tell the reciever that X is open, shift to X. The reciever would then confirm the request, both would shift and confirm the shift.

Size and cost would keep this idea down for now, or maybe not. With models near 2k without the radio, some would pay for this and in most exspensive planes the extra size and weight is not a problem.

[stone_axe]

The Future is Now (http://www.rchobbies.org/spektrum.htm)

[fprintf]

The Future is Now (http://www.rchobbies.org/spektrum.htm)

I read the introduction to see that the current tech is meant for car racing. One of the main challenges with 2.4Ghz spread spectrum is resolution and interference at a distance. We fly gliders at distances of 1/2 mile or more. I have also read that the 2.4Ghz tech may or may not be an FCC approved use for these frequencies, particularly at distances beyond that which you'd expect a regular portable home phone to work.

AMA might not be the right organization for the job, but somehow someone will need to work with the FCC to get this approved if it is not already.

[stone_axe]

Well, at least the technology is getting close - and they do claim 3,000 ft range.

Hopefully the "Air" frequencies will get some sort of automatic multi-frequency 2-way radio gear in the next few years. For now I'll just keep it in my cars.

:D

[bwanajim]

I have had a productive exchange with Shawn Palmer regarding the crash of the Pike using the Berg receiver. We have not yet determined the cause of the crash, as the rx still needs to be inspected. But I want to say that Castle is handling the issue with me in a positive and respectful way.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3416560#post3416560

--Jim

[DFW_HLG_TG]

Very good stone. I read the Add. This technology could utilize the same band we have now. We would then need another frequency on another band so the flight pack could talk to the TX. It has to be another band so the two would not interfere with one another.