Wattage Mig-15

[Reaper1976]

Ok I understand this has been covered in various threads but I can't seem to get anyone to answer me on my power combo ideas. I managed to pick up this plane for $50 I couldn't pass it up. I am going tomorrow to buy the power setup and just want some input. I have a choice of several BL motors, E-Flight 4200kv, E-Flight 3700kv, Ultrafly® A/30/24 & A/30/29 Brushless Motors, 2 different Hacker motors they are both 3700 kv and 4300kv or in that ball park. My ESC is going to be a CC PHOENIX-25. Now my battery is also up for debate. I have currently a Tanic 2s 2150 and willing to buy either a TP 2s or 3s 1320, TP 2s or 3s 1900, or TP 2s or 3s 2100.

Someone please give me some feedback. I had a previous plane go down in flames literally :eek: , because I got bad info from one person I thought of as god in this field. :mad:

Jason

[RC Toys USA]

And why is the battery up for debate??

Brian

[Reaper1976]

The battery was up for debate because I was worried about burning out my ESC. But the Tanic 2s 2150 only puts out 25.8 amps continuous and the CC Pheonix 25 ESC is 25 amps with surge to 35 amps. So I won't have to worry about what happened to my C-47 happening to this one. For the motor I went with the E-flight EFLM 1100. It is rated at 4200 Kv and can handle a continuous current of 18 Amps with a surge to 24 Amps. So at this point I run a slight risk of burning up the motor rather than catching the plane on fire because the ESC burned up. I can live with replacing a motor as opposed to a whole plane. I am also using the stock Wattage fan.

Jason

[Ed Waldrep]

The 3700 kv motors would be a good mid power level match for the wattage fan. I'd watch the temperature if the motors are short though. I plan to use the EFlight 400 4200 motor in a WAttage fan on 3S TP2100 lipos. It should pull about 22 amps or so, maybe a bit more. I'd worry about running the shorter EFlight 370 motors at that power level, but at a lower amp draw the short motors might be ok. I don't recall any amp draws from the EFlight 3700 KV motor, but I do recall someone mentioning it somewhere. I don't know how long it is. The longer motors have more mass and thus should be able to deal with heat more effectively and thus can be run at higher wattage levels.

Not sure why the EFlight ESC burned up, perhaps it doesn't have thermal shutdown protection? I've had a few escs burn up over the years. Maybe they don't have that feature in order to save money? Not sure, don't know a thing about them.

[Reaper1976]

Ed the 4200 Kv motor I bought is the same one you are going to use. The E-Flight 400 4200 Kv. With all the research I have done hopefully the setup I mentioned before will work well with no loss of aircraft this time. The last one lost was a result of not enough research and taking the word of only one person. I have since learned better.

Jason

[FresnoJay]

Ok I am resurecting an old thread here. I am formerly both Reaper9294 and Reaper1976. Not banned or anything like that just new name, getting older and memory ain't what is used to be as far as PW and such.

Anyhow I have finally Completed construction of this plane after it collecting dust in my closet. The power setup is a Park 400-4100kv motor with heat sink, CC ph25 25A continuous and 35A burst, and using a Common Sense 3s 1700 rated up to 22.5 amps continuous.

I have seen just a few posts that I went through in the last few days that this setup with this motor is too hot for the fan and ESC I have. On the other hand have seen several others that used this setup and it works well. BTW my ESC is mounted in the ducting on the underside of the cockpit or electronics area in the main duct airflow (pics to follow once I get home).

My question is this. How many amps at WOT will this pull? Is this setup too hot for equipment stated?

I do want to be able to tear up the sky, But in all actuallity I will most likely only fly at about 50%-75% throttle and just mild aerobatics and fly patterns with a once in a while high speed pass.

Jason

[Fiasco]

maiden yet jay?

[shschon]

Ok I am resurecting an old thread here. I am formerly both Reaper9294 and Reaper1976. Not banned or anything like that just new name, getting older and memory ain't what is used to be as far as PW and such.

Anyhow I have finally Completed construction of this plane after it collecting dust in my closet. The power setup is a Park 400-4100kv motor with heat sink, CC ph25 25A continuous and 35A burst, and using a Common Sense 3s 1700 rated up to 22.5 amps continuous.

I have seen just a few posts that I went through in the last few days that this setup with this motor is too hot for the fan and ESC I have. On the other hand have seen several others that used this setup and it works well. BTW my ESC is mounted in the ducting on the underside of the cockpit or electronics area in the main duct airflow (pics to follow once I get home).

My question is this. How many amps at WOT will this pull? Is this setup too hot for equipment stated?

I do want to be able to tear up the sky, But in all actuallity I will most likely only fly at about 50%-75% throttle and just mild aerobatics and fly patterns with a once in a while high speed pass.

Jason

It is indeed too hot if you use stock 6 blade impeller. The Amp would pull over 25 Amp and you battery life would be reduced or even puff quick.
You will be fine if you remove 3 blade from the impeller to make it a 3 blade impeller. Amp draw would drop to within the capability of your battery. Less static thrust but better top speed.

[AirX]

If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.

[shschon]

If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.

Are you saying 3 blade fans are all bad?

There are the Alfa fan and XF fan out there both 3 blade and both seem to perform well.

The SF fan used in the E-flite airliner and several SF jets are also modded from 6 blade to 3 blade to use a small out runner motor and seems to be well accepted. The SF fan is a close clone of the Wattage fan just with stiffer impeller blades.

[Fiasco]

If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.

I'll jump in and say I disagree on the 16/15/3 as a choice. It's what I have and it requires an obnoxious amount of noseweight if you keep the fan in the stock location.

I'd rather have a 16 or 17 ounce Mig then a 21+ ounce mig.

If I could go back and repurchase the parts I'd pick a different motor.

[raido56]

If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.

I also have to disagree on the above statement. I have the Turbo Hawk with the WPF on 3 blades and it fly's great on that setup with a 3900 Kv outrunner. I had the 6 blades in it and the amp's were a bit high for the 1500 3 cell packs that I fly it with. By removing 3 blades I don't get as much pull but the speed is about the same but the amp's are lower to use the packs without over heating them. I also have the Super Airliner and have also used the 6 blade set up and the 3 blades with the 3800 Kv outrunner motors. Same thing lower amp's longer flying time and no tip stall on either plane from a hand launch. I also fly the Wattage F-86 and S3A Viking on a 3 blade set up. I just removed 3 blades from my Hobby Lobby Firebird with a 3600 Kv inrunner to lower the amp's and it still fly's great. I'll take 3 blades on a WPF any time over the 6 blade set up.

[Fiasco]

I can understand trimming half the blades off the get the power consumption down to fit your existing power system but stating that it is a better solution then having the right motor and battery combination in the first place a matter of personal preference and not a factual blanket statement.

My disagreement w/ what airx said is strictly limited to the Mega 16/15/3 as an optimal choice for the Mig/F86 because of the increase in wingloading required to carry it.

Are you saying 3 blade fans are all bad?

There are the Alfa fan and XF fan out there both 3 blade and both seem to perform well.

The SF fan used in the E-flite airliner and several SF jets are also modded from 6 blade to 3 blade to use a small out runner motor and seems to be well accepted. The SF fan is a close clone of the Wattage fan just with stiffer impeller blades.

I think he was just talking about the WPF rotor w/ 3 blades removed vs unmodified. I highly doubt he was making a blanket blade count statement for all ducted fans.

[AirX]

Are you saying 3 blade fans are all bad?

There are the Alfa fan and XF fan out there both 3 blade and both seem to perform well.

The SF fan used in the E-flite airliner and several SF jets are also modded from 6 blade to 3 blade to use a small out runner motor and seems to be well accepted. The SF fan is a close clone of the Wattage fan just with stiffer impeller blades.
Read a little deeper there bud, in a ducted installation it is less efficient in moving air because the blade coverage(density). Those jets use podded installs which in that case you can just about use a 2 blade and make it work. The reason blade density is a factor in long duct(overall 12-24 inches for a 65mm fan) is the air pressure downstream forces its way in between the blades after it passes and the next blade is having to work on some of the air that the previous blade has already worked on and it takes 20%-30% more rpm to bring that efficiency back to the level of the 6 blade. This is pretty much a fact. Removing blades from a fan rotor will not decrease the load as the motor will rev till load is regained and you will only have gained 5% more velocity from it, in pods this is a fair trade in duct it wont happen as the wetted surface kills any gains.

Eric B.

[AirX]

I also have to disagree on the above statement. I have the Turbo Hawk with the WPF on 3 blades and it fly's great on that setup with a 3900 Kv outrunner. I had the 6 blades in it and the amp's were a bit high for the 1500 3 cell packs that I fly it with. By removing 3 blades I don't get as much pull but the speed is about the same but the amp's are lower to use the packs without over heating them. I also have the Super Airliner and have also used the 6 blade set up and the 3 blades with the 3800 Kv outrunner motors. Same thing lower amp's longer flying time and no tip stall on either plane from a hand launch. I also fly the Wattage F-86 and S3A Viking on a 3 blade set up. I just removed 3 blades from my Hobby Lobby Firebird with a 3600 Kv inrunner to lower the amp's and it still fly's great. I'll take 3 blades on a WPF any time over the 6 blade set up.
Turbo Hawk is a podded install read the previous post for clarification. BTW the fan was made to be used with a speed 400 sized can motor as the motor holder is larger than all the 20mm motors I have seen, you might try taking advantage of the diameter available in raising the power/load ratios. Now if you really want to see a modification that works go with the Wemotec 505 rotor and a Het2W, this is a 500 watt setup that will be supersonic compared to the little 20mm motors your running currently. This will take a larger battery but it can be run with the new TP2200 Extremes with throttle controll, I know this works I have two of them. It wont work with the little Turbo Hawk cause you cant run the batteries but it works in larger installations.

Eric B.

[AirX]

I can understand trimming half the blades off the get the power consumption down to fit your existing power system but stating that it is a better solution then having the right motor and battery combination in the first place a matter of personal preference and not a factual blanket statement.

My disagreement w/ what airx said is strictly limited to the Mega 16/15/3 as an optimal choice for the Mig/F86 because of the increase in wingloading required to carry it.



I think he was just talking about the WPF rotor w/ 3 blades removed vs unmodified. I highly doubt he was making a blanket blade count statement for all ducted fans.
Yup its a blanket statement for ducted installations just like yours. If you dont like the 16/15/3 then go with the 16/7 equivalent. It seems to work just as good and will weigh less. I used to fly my F-86 with the stock 400 and that was a pig not like the newer motor/batery combinations available now.


Eric B.

[Fiasco]

Eric,

I'm rebuilding my Mig right now for my 4S 2100 pack. I still need some weight in the nose in addition to the heavier battery for balance but the situation is much better now.

My Mig has an AUW of just over 22 ounces w/ around 360 watts. Is this going to take off easily from a hand launch? That's my big concern.

When I said blanket statement I meant that just as far as blade count by design (not removing blades). Surely it's possible to have a 5 blade (by design) rotor work as well as the 6 right? (I'm no expert, I defer to your judgement on that)

[FresnoJay]

Ok Yes I have maidened on the Before mentioned Park 400 4200kv, CC ph25, and CS 3s 1500 15c pack. As AirX stated it could be flown with throttle management and has been. I get about 5-7 min flight times depending on how aggressive I am with the throttle. I am however this week picking up some 2000-2200mah lipo packs. Will make decission when at the LHS and funds permitting. Oh and the motor does have a heat sink. Has had one since before I began construction of this aircraft 2+ years ago ;) . Over all the performance of the Park 400 has been surprising and down right outstanding. I will say though when it comes time for motor replacement I will probably go with the mega 16/7/5 and a CC PH35 or equivelent of the 2.

As for the fan, the stock rotor is holding up and not scrubbing. That is one piece however I will probably be picking up a replacement for soon. It will either be a trimmed down Kyosho rotor or I believe AirX said a Wemo 505 would drop in with a bit of trimming (may be wrong so dont quote me :o ).

Oh yeah my AUW is 16oz.....dunno about watts or rpm working on getting all that snazzy gear still.

Jason

[raido56]

Turbo Hawk is a podded install read the previous post for clarification. BTW the fan was made to be used with a speed 400 sized can motor as the motor holder is larger than all the 20mm motors I have seen, you might try taking advantage of the diameter available in raising the power/load ratios. Now if you really want to see a modification that works go with the Wemotec 505 rotor and a Het2W, this is a 500 watt setup that will be supersonic compared to the little 20mm motors your running currently. This will take a larger battery but it can be run with the new TP2200 Extremes with throttle controll, I know this works I have two of them. It wont work with the little Turbo Hawk cause you cant run the batteries but it works in larger installations.

Eric B.

Hi AirX,
Yea, I love flying the Turbo Hawk. I did fly it with the stock motor with the 6 blades and it didn't fly to bad but you had to fly it WOT all the time or it would drop out of the sky :eek: . I now have a 27 mm outrunner that is 3900 Kv in it but went with the 3 blade set up because of the small space for the 3 cell pack plus the lower amp draw. With this set up I would say it is in the 60 to 65 mph range pulling about 20 to 23 amp's at a little over 225 watts. I can now fly at about 1/2 throttle without it dropping like a rock. Yea I also have 2 of them the other is still in the box.

[AirX]

Eric,

I'm rebuilding my Mig right now for my 4S 2100 pack. I still need some weight in the nose in addition to the heavier battery for balance but the situation is much better now.

My Mig has an AUW of just over 22 ounces w/ around 360 watts. Is this going to take off easily from a hand launch? That's my big concern.

When I said blanket statement I meant that just as far as blade count by design (not removing blades). Surely it's possible to have a 5 blade (by design) rotor work as well as the 6 right? (I'm no expert, I defer to your judgement on that)
Sorry your right it would only apply to removing blades to get less amp draw, which is not bad just application wise it wont work as well without a corresponding rise (10,000-15,000)rpm, but then your back to larger battery pack and ESC and more money spent.

Eric B.

[AirX]

Hi AirX,
Yea, I love flying the Turbo Hawk. I did fly it with the stock motor with the 6 blades and it didn't fly to bad but you had to fly it WOT all the time or it would drop out of the sky :eek: . I now have a 27 mm outrunner that is 3900 Kv in it but went with the 3 blade set up because of the small space for the 3 cell pack plus the lower amp draw. With this set up I would say it is in the 60 to 65 mph range pulling about 20 to 23 amp's at a little over 225 watts. I can now fly at about 1/2 throttle without it dropping like a rock. Yea I also have 2 of them the other is still in the box.
Its cool, I loved mine and wish it were still available, I would go with the Eflight 400-4200 with it on 3s and that would be major fun... :)
Your solution is a pretty good option for good fun and I wont knock it.

Eric B.

[AirX]

Ok Yes I have maidened on the Before mentioned Park 400 4200kv, CC ph25, and CS 3s 1500 15c pack. As AirX stated it could be flown with throttle management and has been. I get about 5-7 min flight times depending on how aggressive I am with the throttle. I am however this week picking up some 2000-2200mah lipo packs. Will make decission when at the LHS and funds permitting. Oh and the motor does have a heat sink. Has had one since before I began construction of this aircraft 2+ years ago ;) . Over all the performance of the Park 400 has been surprising and down right outstanding. I will say though when it comes time for motor replacement I will probably go with the mega 16/7/5 and a CC PH35 or equivelent of the 2.

As for the fan, the stock rotor is holding up and not scrubbing. That is one piece however I will probably be picking up a replacement for soon. It will either be a trimmed down Kyosho rotor or I believe AirX said a Wemo 505 would drop in with a bit of trimming (may be wrong so dont quote me :o ).

Oh yeah my AUW is 16oz.....dunno about watts or rpm working on getting all that snazzy gear still.

Jason
Hi Jason,
Mine required no trimming at all, one I got from Corsair Nut and one I bought as stand alone, both fit the Wattage shroud. The 505 was modified from the Wemotec minifan roto and stator assembly to fit the Offshore kits from Germany.

Cheers,
Eric B.

[Fiasco]

So any opinions as to how well my mig will handlaunch at 22 1/4 ounces and 360 watts?

[FresnoJay]

Well Fiasco even though mine is lighter the guys that throws mine for me almost makes an olympic javelin style run and toss everytime he throws it for me. I doubt it really needs that much but it works. I would guess a good heave straight maybe a little up in the throw. Be prepared for it to settle and lose a bit of hieght after the throw as the fan gets on step. Mine takes about 10-20' of settling then its off like a rocket. If I am repeating what you already know then just ignore me lol.

Jason

[Fiasco]

16 ounce AUW, I'm jealous!

[FresnoJay]

Anyone still have one of these flying? I still have mine airworthy and am working on an easy access fan mounting tray.

Jason

[Extreme_RC]

Wasn't able to get hold of the MIG's as they have run out everywhere from the looks of it, even back at the factory. Got the Sabres though, great little plane too, not super fast but easy build and the EDF64 works superbly in it.

Here is an almost finished rendition of the Australian Black Diamonds team...

[FresnoJay]

If I am not mistaken didn't wattage stop making them? My Mig has seen its share of rough action but has never snapped or broken anything, fuse, vert stab, horiz. stab. Just wing separation after rough cartwheel landing. Very sturdy tough little birds. Very stable and smooth flying. Mine flies about 80-85mph but am looking for a little more out of her.

Mega 16/7/5
CC TB-36 ESC
Wemo 505 Rotor / stock fan housing
Venom 20c 3s 1800mah
Carbon wing spar
AUW=20.5 oz.

Jason

[Extreme_RC]

Not sure if wattage actually stopped making them or just dropped the models as they come from a Taiwan factory. I think wattage just moved on. I managed to get some old stock Sabres, would have gotten the Mig too if it had been available.

My Sabre setup is:
EDF64
ERC2040 inrunner
DN Power 36A ESC
EXP1300 4s1p 25c pack
AUW 18.6oz
Thrust 21oz
Around 250 watts.

I added a thrust tube taped to the fan, extends out to the end of the ducktail on the Sabre, effectively removing the downthrust from the ducktail and narrowing the exit a few mm at the same time. Havent had much airtime with this new one yet but unlike the stock airframe which needs about 1.5mm of up dialled in on the elevators, this one has a touch of down! Everything is the same including COG, the thrust tube is the only change.

The original was doing around 70-75mph, this one is a little quicker, need to video it again soon as we get some good weather!

[metroidrc]

Would love to see that video. Compared to the Alfa Sabre, what are some of the differences? I saw one of these on ebay for really cheap, but I lost the auction...

[FresnoJay]

The Wattage is bigger and heavier. In both the sabre and the mig. I dunno much about the construction as I have never seen either alfa model in person. But the Wattage models have a cheater hole just in front of the fan and they have 68mm fans in them.

Jason

[Extreme_RC]

I dunno if the wattage sabre is heavier than the Alfa once they have similar setups in them.

From memory the last lot of Sabre tests was when the Don was flying a couple of AC winds and the triple stator winds, they were around the same speed on 3 cells as mine, would have been at least 500 grams AUW. My Sabre is 527g AUW and thats with a 21g RS77s receiver.

Biggest difference is cost! :) The Alfa is double the wattage. Alfa is more scale for sure, but more delicate too and harder to repair. Wattage fuse is very thick and tough, linked controls are not for everyone but its easy to stick a couple of 5g servos in each side of the fuse and link the elevators separately. Wattage is a spirited flyer and u need to be on the ball, like most EDF's. Havent flown the Alfa Sabre yet but have flown the Hucke and Mig.

My video of the Sabre is under my user name somewhere, just look up my threads.

[FresnoJay]

Extreme My Mig currently weighs in at 20.5 oz. with the cheater plugged. Been thinking of opening it up again but since I have started my hatch mod, Part of its support is the plug. I am going to pull the Mega 16/7/5 3500KV and put in a Park 400 4200KV that used to power it as that motor was faster. Gonna do this till the 400 dies or I come into some money and can get a mega 16/15/3 or Equivalant.

Your right the difference is huge but I will sacrifice a but of scale looks for a plane I can afford. And yes you have to stay on the ball and eye's on the plane. I have lost mine a few times looking a way then when I look back can't find it. Thank god for friends that were watching it lol.

All in all great plane.

Jason

[Extreme_RC]

Yeah thats quite heavy Jay, 580 grams... Even so they all fly well regardless the weight, it just affects the amount of vertical grunt you have. You are using the wattage fan right? During my bench testing I noticed one thing with the powerfan, it loads motors up quite alot, and going up in Kv doesnt give you a huge corresponding jump in rpm. Do you have any idea of your RPM currently?

One of the best motors I have tested so far is the original factory 403L motor, its a 2040 size inrunner around 3600Kv and on a good 25c 1800 3s1p it gets up to around 32,000rpm which equates to ALOT of thrust in the powerfan. 33,500rpm is 24oz on the thrust stand.

[Fiasco]

I still have mine (and a backup in the attic).

I've had a few misadventures with mine but the plane is so durable. My problems have always been getting the launch right. I have never tried to hand launch it, only bungee launch. At first I tried it off my PVC pedal launcher using the mount for the front wheel as the hook. Being that far forward pulled the nose down on takeoff but generally I could get it up. Twice in a row it dipped and clipped a wing throwing it into a cartwheel. (moved hook back since)

I switched to hi-starting it off the bungee launch with someone holding it the air. I told the person who held the plane for launch to put about 12 pounds of pull in cord. He put enough in that the wings dropped from the fuselage on the spot on release and the fuse went about 50-75 yards down field. (put wings back on w/ carbon fiber spar thorugh fuselage since)

I moved my launch point behind the battery but launches with this plane are always very hairy. (Landings are easy though. I have never had a problem landing).


Here's my Mig (still flying)
http://media.putfile.com/360-watt-Wattage-Mig

[FresnoJay]

Mine has always been hand launched by a buddy. Its gotten to the point that its dailed in just throttle up and toss and away it goes. Still wanting more speed so the hatch is ment to give me the ability to experiment.

Jason

[FresnoJay]

Ok so here it is. The Fan access module. 8 rare earth magnets (4 on each half) and good ole thick CA. Magnets were scored deeply before glueing and do not budge. Allows easy access to change out the motor or fan combo with out having to constantly cut into the airframe and cause more and more weight from epoxy or glue when putting it back together. If your worried about whether the magnets are strong enough to keep it all together just have a look for yourself. In the pic that I am holding the plane I am only holding the plane up by the access hatch itself. Some strong magnets for sure yet pull apart with just a bit of effort and clack into place when your done. Very nice mod inspired by the new GP L-39's motor access bay hatch.

Extreme You think putting the stock fan on the mega motor would get me a little more performance? The stock is 6 blades as you know and the Wemo is a wide 5 blade. Also as of now I have not changed the motor.

Jason

[FresnoJay]

Well my Wattage mig has recieved what I think will be its final power setup. It is running a KDA 28-47 9Turn S Brushless Inrunner from UH stated rating is 4900Kv but more like 4300Kv, OEMRC Shield 40amp esc soon to be upgraded to a 50-60A esc, Wemo 505 rotor in stock fan housing, Loong Max 3s 2250 20c pack. Current safe range testing shows 43A, 425 watt range, 21oz or so thrust (peaks in 22 range). The planes current AUW is 25oz. AUW is up 4oz from previous setup weight of 21oz. Thrust however is up 9oz or so from previous setup which delivered 12oz.

The plane will be recieving a new ESC 50-60A range so I can take full advantage of the power available from this setup. I will also be ordering a new set of 3s 2500 25c packs for same reason. AUW will go up slightly with the bigger esc and batts but gain will be of little concern as performance will also go up as well. This plane does have a CF spar so coping with the high AUW should be good. I will just have to watch my turns and landing speeds.

Jason

[Extreme_RC]

Hey Jay, didnt see your post on the mods sorry, looks good the access hatch setup.

Here is video of our latest Sabre creation with my new ERC2435-4000 motor in it running 1800 4s1p 25c packs.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=783415#post8697326

Goes pretty good! :D Test results on this setup are as follows:

EDF64 fan/ERC2435-4000 inrunner
13.77 volts / 30.6 amps / 422 watts / 41,650rpm

On the thrust stand I measured 800 grams settling to 760 for most of the run time. thats aroun 27oz stabilised :D

[FresnoJay]

27oz :eek: :eek: :eek: . I was trying to stay close to stock config without having to hack on her some more. I dunno how you fit a 4s pack in there as my 3s packs barely fit :confused: . With me having the room issues and having all 3s packs on hand I was trying to squeeze all the performance I could get out of 3s without busting the bank on new packs that I didn't know if would fit or not. The controller I have can go 4s without an additional BEC as it has a switching 3A BEC built in. I have the ability to be able to go 4s just never found a pack that would fit and not bust my pocket book. I have cleaned up the cut lines on the fan access piece so alot less disturbance to the airflow.

I may not have 27 oz :eek: but do hope to have a bit more performance than I did before with a 9oz gap between thrust and weight. If I could find a motor that would spin the Wemo 505 I have at decent rate to produce at least 1:1 and not break the bank I would be a really happy man. I now have decent 3s packs, Good functioning 40A esc with ability for 4s without extra components, and Good fan rotor. Missing link at this point is a good motor that wont cause my spouse to kill me when I buy it ;) :D .

Jason

[ATIS]

can you still get this plane??

[FresnoJay]

ATIS, Not sure really. The mig seems to be the harder of the 2 Wattage jets to still find. Extreme still has some of the Sabres I think. You might still find the mig on some of the online retailers or even in the classifieds of the various R/C forums. These gems seem to pop up from time to time. You may even want to post a wanted thread in the classifieds area. People that have a stock pile of kits in the closet may just decide to have a look in said closet and find the kit you are looking for. My mig is actually about 3-4 years old and was just finally assembled last spring. So you never know.

Jason

[ATIS]

Jason,

Thanks... I had a Fidget that I sold to FlyBye a week ago... sat int he box in the garage for 6 months and never got around to building it so I sold it...

[FresnoJay]

When I bought my mig it was on clearance at my LHS for half price and just couldn't pass it up. When I bought it I also bought an E-flite Park 400 4200Kv and CC pheonix 25 to use in it. Shortly after getting it all home I got as far as glueing the fuse halves together and that is where she sat for 2-3 years. I had mostly gotten out of the hobby as I was moving and didn't want to take all my built planes so she was the only one I kept as she was still in her box. Well Shortly after my move last spring I had tried to find a buyer for her and could not so I built her. I am so glad I did keep her and build her. Plus she is my first EDF that flew and is what got me hooked back into the hobby and now EDF.

Jason

[FresnoJay]

Well back to the drawing board. The motor produced great power and thrust but also weighed so much I could not get the plane to balance without 3oz of lead in the nose . This would take the plane back into the thrust to weight range it had before this setup not to mention it would have weighed 28oz vs the previous 20oz. I think this motor would do well in a plane with a larger wing area to spread the loading but not in this plane.

I think instead I am just going to go the route of the HET 3W or Mega 16/15/3 on 4S. I have a good ESC and will find some way to shoe horn in a 4S pack. I should have just gone this route before but I am always one to experiment . Will pick this setup up and see what I get. I think fiasco was using this setup in his plane and he got really nice performance.

Jason

[Fiasco]

I have the 16/15/3 on 4S Fresno. If you go that route you will want to move your EDF unit forward an inch or two. I have the TP 4S2100 which fits the stock battery tray snuggly (but does fit). AUW is around 22 1/2 ounces w/ 360 watts of power.

Can't you run your 16/7/5 on 4S?

[Fiasco]

And how in the world are you heavier then me on one less cell and a lighter mega motor!!!???

[FresnoJay]

LOL Fiasco. I am heavier as I have my cheater hole plugged and blended to make it look likeo nthe exterior like there never was one. Refer to the pics in post #37 of this thread and you will see where some of the weight comes from. The plugged cheater has also been smoothed out on the inside too. I just read back through some of the pages of this thread and didn't notice that AirX had stated before that the Mega 16/7/X could run a similair setup to the 16/15/X setup but lighter. I was worried about the lighter weight not being able to handle the dissapation of the heat. But after testing I have done and now reading what AirX said previously I kinda feel like an idiot :rolleyes: . I will be exploring the 16/7/5 on 4S as I have also seen that the motor is rated to 15v. My motor also is spinning the Wemo rotor as opposed to the stock rotor. The 16/7/5 turnign the wemo on 3S pulled about 22A so the 4S amp numbers cant be to much higher. The performance is what will be the jump :D .

Jason

[blueplane]

my wattage-505 + 16/7/5 get 25-27 amps, 320-350 watts out
of the 4S packs. The result varies with the quality
of the Pack though :p

[Extreme_RC]

Please post some pictures of your setup blueplane so everyone can see...

[FresnoJay]

Blueplane your plane scoots along really well. That is what I am after and will end up doing post christmas holidays. I already have the fan, motor and ESC. Just need the packs.

Jason

[blueplane]

Blueplane your plane scoots along really well. That is what I am after and will end up doing post christmas holidays. I already have the fan, motor and ESC. Just need the packs.

Jason

Yes, Jason.
Try the 4S and enjoy it.
I enjoy the 30C PolyRc 1200 4S pack
and that draws 27.4 amps nicely.
347 watts :p

I will get some 20C 1550
for longer duration



BTW the 505 rotor does not fit the
wattage housing. I need to trim a
tiny bit though.

Tried and true


:p

[FresnoJay]

Oops Blue. Got you confused with Bpwrs Sabre that Extreme helped setup. My bad.

Jason

[Extreme_RC]

Blueplane unless I am mistaken you have been likened to rcguy01 and are nothing more than a troll. Maybe you are not, so prove it and post up pics of your modified 505 and wattage housing, anyone with good intentions in this forum shows what they are doing for the benefit of others. Personally I dont think you will post up any original photos...

[blueplane]

like the wattage fan housing, the 505 will not fit
the GWS 64 fan housing either :o , need a bit of trimming.
The plastic of the housing and the rotor
of the GWS 64 fan is kind of soft too.

I love the strong housing of the wattage
and the strong 505 and that ~350 watts

Picture will come soon, now where
is my el cheapo digital camera ;)

:p

[FresnoJay]

Blue, My 505 fit right into my wattage stock housing with only 1 or 2 spots it rubbed but I think that was due to me warping the housing when I first had installed it a couple years earlier. A very slight bit of light sanding had it spinning free and clear.

Now a bit of info for all if I have not already posted it. According to Mega Motors USA the Mega ACn 16/7/5 can handle up to 16v in geared applications but shows has been used in EDF applications up to 14.8v or 4S and has a max amps of 20A. Now for the bit of interesting info I have to offer from my own testing. I have run this motor in my Multiplex FunJet swinging a 4.75x4.75 APC E series prop. The amps were in the area of 33.5A static on 3S. Once in the air the draw most likely fell closer to 31A or so as the plane unloaded. This was done for a series of about 6-8 flights with no loss in motor performance. For 3 flights I even went up a prop size to a 5.5x4.5 APC E series prop pushing the motor even further into the 39A range static which probably fell around 36-37 once inthe air and unloaded, again no loss in motor performance. The motor was checked after returning home from each outing to find the motor still had its characteristic strong magnet cogging with no play in the motor shaft.

Now after stating all that. I will be taking the mig out in the next couple weeks sometime with the 16/7/5 on 4S. I believe Mega Motors has way under rated this motors abilities. Previously in this setup with the Wemo 505 rotor it pulled in the 22.5A range on 3S. 4S amps should be in the 25-27A range which according to my testing is well within the abilities of this motor.

Test flights to follow weather permitting,
Jason

[blueplane]

sounds great Jason.

I love my 505 set up.
But sure I did trim the rotor a little bit to fit
the wattage housing. My 505 rotor and wattage
housing are brand new, out of the sealed box.

here is my process of looking for an
optimal system for my 19-20oz EDF jet.
Please see photo #1. From top and clockwise ;)
GWS 64 , Vasa 65, 505, HET 6904 And Alfa fan.
And my choice is the 505 :p

1/ GWS 64 is best bang for the Bucks, cheap and lot of fun.
But what do we expect from $10 Fan? I am still looking
for the right plane for this Fan. Not this plane ;)

2/ Vasa 65: performance, amp draw, weight are almost the same as 505; :D
but fragile, can not be abused and too expensive to
replace. The used rotor alone is $40 :o
Handle with care Please :eek:

3/ 505: my choice: strong, solid perfromer and can be pushed hard

4/ Het 6904: very tough, great fan for 600+ watts but
Fan is heavy, pack is heavy, motor is heavy.
Too heavy, so it is not my choice for 19-20oz plane

5/ Alfa fan: but only 60mm. This fan is great and specifically
optimized for those alfa EDF jets.
Alfa for Alfa, not for this plane ;)

The Alfa, Vasa 65 and 505 with mega-size motor of 1.7oz is
about the same weight, 3.4-3.5oz and put out about 320-350 watts
on the good 4S lipo with 3500-3600KV motor.

I want a lightest and biggest and toughest fan I can afford on
my 19-20oz plane. Therefore it is logical for me to select the 505.
4S + 505 + mega 16/7/5 = 350 watts. Very happy with it. ;)

In cold weather, we need to wake up the lipo in order to get
the expected perfromance though :o

See 505 on photo #2 Please :p

[FresnoJay]

Ok well put all the migs components back into her to await the 4S pack. Now I have a new problem.

I have read in various other threads on various other brands of fans that when you mount the front cap or hub peice it can and does throw the fan out of whack. Meaning that the fan balances fine and runs true with out the rounded nose piece throughout the entire power range. But the minute you add it the fan starts to rub or be out of balance. When I was putting it all toghether I tested the fan and adaptor to check for center and no rub prior to adding the nose cone and it was fine. No wierd noise or rubbing. The minute I put on the nose cone rubbing and and sounded horrible.

Should I run it with it off? Will the disruption caused without the cone be worst than the performance lost with the rubbing fan? Help!!! :confused: :mad: .

Jason

[Extreme_RC]

Re-balance it with the cone in place, mark the position, use magnetic balancer, you should be able to set it up so it floats in the balancer with the nosecone pushed on.

Otherwise you gotta rotate the cone and test, keep rotating 1/8th or less and find the spot where the harmonics and balance all come together. PITA but necessary.

[FresnoJay]

Thanks Extreme. Will give that a go when my job allows me time to get to it.

Jason

[FresnoJay]

Well sad news from the field today :( . The Mig is no more. It finally took its last flight and its only really hard impact. Nose crumpled and started to peel like a banana, Ejected the Fan unit, Ejected the battery compartment, and finally snapped the fuse in half just in front of where the fan unit sat. I will post pics when I get home from work. Sad to say she will be scrapped and missed. She really outlived her life expectancy as she was my first successfull EDF and also my first high speed plane period. She taught me alot and gave alot of joy in the process. Thanks to all that helped me with the problems I have had and sorting them out.

Jason