What happened to the DC kits?

[ThePitchedLink]

Well crap, I ordered a few models from DC because he was going out of bussiness and reading all these great threads about building the old woodies made me want to have some kits around the house for later. I just got an email finally saying that my order had been cancelled and not shipped b/c I picked the wrong shipping style. Great, did anyone pick up the rights to those kits? i guess I could always order copies of plans but haveing thoses short kits wouold have been nice, Aquilla, Aquilla grand, Saggitta. Nutts, i'm really bumed.

[ThePitchedLink]

I just checked DC 's website and I guess I should'nt be to bummed. Seems like the owner of DC has bigger problems then me not getting a model sailplane kit. Too bad things like that happen around the holidays. Just bugs me to have missed such an opportunity when it is my fault to not following up on it sooner.

[Tim Jonas]

nothing like "old woodies"....har, har....

[schrederman]

I'm really bummed, too. I ordered a Grand Esprit kit and an extra boom, an Aquila short kit, and some other stuff. I never received any notification and received no merchandise. I guess I'm scratch building my next GE.

Jack Womack

[ThePitchedLink]

ya I didn't get noticfication either, but I guess that's the way it goes. I hope some one picks up those models as short kits really would help average builders out.

[e-sailpilot86]

You didn't get charged for the item did you? :confused:

[ThePitchedLink]

No no no, nothign like that. Just that I ordered them and then nothing happenend. I should have followed up on it but I was busy and figured that with the closing of the bussiness and shipoing up here to Canada that it was just taking a long time. Turns out that I was supposed to have gotten an email saying that the order was cancelled due to improper shipping choice, but I didn't get that email. So the order was cancelled and I was unable to reorder before the doors at DC closed. If I had paid more attention to the situation I probably would have the kits in front of me right now. Just sucks that I can't get them at all now :mad: Imay have to become a member of the scratch building club now, that would'nt be so bad.

[tommyt]

Guys, I ordered from DC early December and also thought that perhaps my order didn't get filled because my credit card was not charged until Dec 31. According to tracking though, I should receive my Saggitta 900 short kit today via UPS.

I just think Roy is really swamped with last minute orders and having to deal with a death in his family and it being Christmas and all.

I think if you placed an order prior to his site saying that he would no longer accept orders, sometime mid December, you'll get it.

Thermals,
Tom

[ejett]

I ordered my GE kit about the time Jack ordered his. Mine came today. Jack, maybe you'll get your stuff this week.

EJ

[schrederman]

If I hadn't gotten my real glider today, I'd really be bummed out. Somehow I just can't quit grinning...

Looking forward to summer like never before...

Jack Womack

[oracle_9]

I dont like the offer he made for the kit lines, all of the rights and etc for all of the planes for $68,000 USD, and not by individually, I understand why he wants to do it this way. But, its either you get $68000 and get rid of the stock, or you still keep everything and get $0. The latter seems more likely to happen. I am not looking to be a manufacturer, but I am looking at this as the whole.

I would like some of the kits to continue to be produce, like the Aquile, Sagitta, and I would like some of the larger manufacturers to continue them, but they would not be willing to pay 68,000 for them, hence this continuation dies off. Of course there are plans...but...ya know.

[schrederman]

Hey,

A Legionair is much harder to build than anything Airtronics ever put out, and I've scratch-built 3 of them. It isn't that hard to "make your own kit." I'm not braggin' just stating the fact that it AIN'T that hard... What I'm REALLY saying is if it WAS hard, I'd have never made it through the process. Try it, you'll like it!

Real men scratch build...

Jack

[oracle_9]

I scratched built my own Monterey....flies beautifully

[schrederman]

Maybe I was bummed out a little too quick. I was baout to leave for the airport to look over my Pik when the doorbell rang, and the UPS guy had left a Dreamcatcher's box. I'm not sure what's inside, yet, as I haven't opened it.

Jack Womack

[tomcat5109]

I placed an order for a Sagitta 900 fuse and Aquila Grande ribs in the middle of December, and they showed up at my front door today. He is still working to fill orders, in spite of major life events.

The fuselage is absolutely beautiful. Excellent workmanship. It has the exact shape of Sagitta plans and has 1.5 inch kevlar strips down each side from nose to back of fin. Total weight = 7.3 oz. I wonder who actually makes these?

I flew a Sagitta 600 for several years back in the eighties when I was in the Tulsoar club. I liked everything about it except the landings. My new 900, when I get around to building it, will address that matter.

Thanks DC

[schrederman]

Well,

Back from the airport and opened the box. At the time I ordered the G.E. short kit, he had stated that it was just the ribs and plans, and not the old short kit. I received a short kit and 2 booms, and an Aquila short kit, and the canopies, just as I had ordered. However, I must tell you that I received a FULL short kit including all the fuselage parts and flase leading edge and spruce leading edge, at no additional cost. This was more than expected. Some of you may have had problems. I have never had anything but good luck dealing with Dreamcatcher, and will miss knowing these great models are available. Thanks, Roy, enjoy your retirement!

Jack Womack

[ThePitchedLink]

glad to here that you got your's Jack, wish I had followed up on mine earlier. ANy ideas where I can get info on the Sagittas and Aquilas? Can I get a set of plans from one of the magazines?

[ejett]

RC Modeler Magazine offers plans for the Aquila, Sagitta 600, Sagitta 900.

EJ

[ThePitchedLink]

I'm curious. When you order a set of plans, do they all include the rib profiles? Is it a failly straight forward process to gather all of your parts together, or will I be lofting and searching for the proper rib shapes. Everything else should be straight forward. I'm just putting my shop together, but the little 8" bandsaw I aquired should be perfect for cutting out balsa parts, I just don't know if the original plans give you everything you need to scratch build one of these beauties.

[oracle_9]

I order my Monterey plans from RCMmag last year, I got plans and a photocopy of the article they published, review in other words. The plans included all the rib templates for the Monterey, since every rib was not the same. I am not sure about the other plans, but it would seem logical to have it on. Minimun , you should have 2 rib templates.

This is my input, hope it helps

[AirBornOne]

I dont like the offer he made for the kit lines, all of the rights and etc for all of the planes for $68,000 USD, and not by individually, I understand why he wants to do it this way. But, its either you get $68000 and get rid of the stock, or you still keep everything and get $0. The latter seems more likely to happen. I am not looking to be a manufacturer, but I am looking at this as the whole.
IIRC,the 68K does not include any inventory or equipment.Just the "rights" to mfg. and sell the noted planes and any plans,computer files,engineering data and any fixtures for part mfg.
What is appalling to me is the requirement to put up 5K (non-refundable) for the privilege of showing Dream Catcher your ability to pay and the reciept of a 'non-disclosure agreement'.
No inventory of item(s) to be offered before or after the sale,just DC's declaration that they have 68K worth of 'stuff' to sell.
This brings up another question...what,if any, 'rights' could exist for these kits given their antiquity?
Any business/legal person have anything to share?
Thanks.
Jay.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Any plans that have been published in a magazine have a working copyright. Plans that have not been published have to be copyrighted with the Fed's. You have two years to file for a design copyright. However there have been several cases where design copyrights have been upheld even when the design was not registered with the Fed's.

Wouldn't take much to make the equivalent performing planes that look significantly different. You just couldn't sell them as Aquilas and such.

[fly1milehi]

SoCalGliderFlyr,
I think you hit it on the head about equivalent performing planes that are different enough to sold as something new! I understand Roy's (DC Hobbies) desire to sell all of the kits rights as a whole "business" but SADLY he is doing a really bad job of enabling any interested partys in researching whether his asking price is legitimate or just pie in the sky. I offered him a dollar amount for the Sagitta's (600,900 and XC) and I was turned down flat! Given the information that he is willing to provide I thought I made a very reasonable offer for maybe fuselage molds (sight unseen, as I have no idea if they are in good condition or not) blueprint originals?? Who knows he wont inventory what the buyer is getting and absolutely NO PARTS INVENTORY??? like sure that makes sense to a business buyer.. If he wants the kits to stay alive he needs to split them up and let others try to sell them to the modeling community.
Just my opinion from 26 years of being a business owner myself.
greg

[AirBornOne]

Who knows he wont inventory what the buyer is getting and absolutely NO PARTS INVENTORY??? like sure that makes sense to a business buyer
I would think that given an inventory,a buyer could break up the package themself.But then who knows what 'value' some of the lesser known planes would have.
Any plans that have been published in a magazine have a working copyright.
So copyrights are indefinite?
Skies.
Jay.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Indefinite copyrights? Might as well be.

Here is a link to a GOV publication that is fairly clear on the time limits:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15t.html#effect

For those that don't want to chase the link here is a summary:

* Copyrights already in their second term on January 1, 1978, have been automatically extended up to a maximum of 95 years without the need for further renewal.

* Copyrights secured between January 1, 1950, and December 31, 1963, had to be renewed within a strict 1-year time limit; if not renewed they expired at the end of their 28th calendar year.

* Copyrights secured between January 1, 1964, and December 31, 1977, are renewed automatically even if renewal registration is not made; renewal registration is optional and if timely made, entitles the claimant to a presumption of validity and other advantages.

* Works in the public domain cannot be protected by copyright. The 1976 Act, the 1992 amendment, and the 1998 amendment do not provide a procedure for restoring protection for works in which copyright has been lost for any reason.

* Exception: Under the provisions of the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), certain foreign works whose U.S. copyright protection had been lost because of noncompliance with formalities of U.S. law were restored as of January 1, 1996. Such works may be registered using Form GATT. For more information, request Circular 38b, “Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA-GATT).”

* A work published before January 1, 1964, and originally copyrighted within the past 75 years may still be protected by copyright if a valid renewal registration was made during the 28th year of the first term of the copyright. If renewed and if still valid under the other provisions of the law, the copyright will now expire 95 years from the end of the year in which it was first secured. Works published before January 1, 1923, have fallen into the public domain, but works published after that date could still be protected by copyright if the copyright was renewed by registration or automatically by law under Public Law 102-307.

[fly1milehi]

Hi AirBornOne,
sorry I got ahead of myself in typing my reply and "soapboxing" about DC Hobbies. Take a look at his web site page that "lists" the kits for sale.. It states that HE wont provide an inventory of what the 68K is going to purchase. Sort of like just "trust me, its worth 68K" Selling a business usually requires the seller to provide financial reports from the last three years, a very detailed inventory of what is being purchased and in this case with copyrights being the main "value" I would expect some type of legal disclosure of the history of those rights. Looking at SoCal's last post it looks like if any of the copyrights had ever "lapsed" then DC Hobbies may not have any legal claim to them.......
Maybe Roy is going to provide all of that if you give him 5K for the privilege of seeing them????

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

DC/Roy should own the copyrights. Would have been part of the purchase. Anything that was in a magazine as a construction artical and plan set is copyrighted. Also anything that the copyright was applied for. Doesn't have to have the circle-C on the plans.

An example of a series of kits that were not (aparently) copyrighted is the Stirling line.

[AirBornOne]

... Doesn't have to have the circle-C on the plans.
Interesting info ,Thank you.
But then I would have to wonder,how would I know if a copyright was enforce when there is no copyright registration mark?Not that it matters.
I'll be checking the link also.
Maybe Roy is going to provide all of that if you give him 5K for the privilege of seeing them????
Yeah,like I don't have a better way to gamble 5K
Skies.
Jay.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Go to this page:

http://www.copyright.gov/records/

[skybenchone]

Anyone one have a legal explanantion or definition of "Public Domain" as it pertains to mfg a kit previously mfg by others or from a published plan ?

Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer but would like to play one on TV!

Ray, From the conversations I've had with an IP (intellectual properties) lawyer our sailplanes come under two of the copyright categories; documents for the plans and design for the look of the sailplane.

Documents should be copyrighted ASAP, designs have two years. My recent conversations with an IP lawyer it was mentioned that there are now standing court cases where designs have been protected even though there was no copyright applied for. He was supposed to send me the citations on this. Guess I have to remind him.

I would contact an IP lawyer and discuss your particular situation with him. Please share your findings.

[sierra-gold]

Hi AirBornOne,
sorry I got ahead of myself in typing my reply and "soapboxing" about DC Hobbies. Take a look at his web site page that "lists" the kits for sale.. It states that HE wont provide an inventory of what the 68K is going to purchase. Sort of like just "trust me, its worth 68K" Selling a business usually requires the seller to provide financial reports from the last three years, a very detailed inventory of what is being purchased and in this case with copyrights being the main "value" I would expect some type of legal disclosure of the history of those rights. Looking at SoCal's last post it looks like if any of the copyrights had ever "lapsed" then DC Hobbies may not have any legal claim to them.......
Maybe Roy is going to provide all of that if you give him 5K for the privilege of seeing them????

Is he selling his business or the rights to the planes? If the latter, his financial records, etc. for DC are not applicable.

Sierra Gold

[fly1milehi]

Sierra Gold,
Good Point!
To be honest from his web site page its hard to tell becuase I think it sends a mixed message. Technically he is only offering the rights and the toolings that he has either made or acquired, BUT he clearly states that he wants it to go to someone who will set-up a kit manufacturing business with the rights and tooling. I was trying to make the point that his method of offering the rights for sale, implies that they are money makers if you produce kits from them. To me that sounds like a business for sale. Personally I cant think of reason to buy the rights to these kits if you have no intention to manufacture them.
Greg

[fly1milehi]

Ray,
Not sure if you already have this information or not, and since I am a graphic/web designer I am always in the middle of whose rights are being used correctly I found this book and web site helpful.
The book is, The Copyright Handbook, how to protect & use written works. Its available at most bookstores and is published by NOLO. They have a web site that describes all of their published titles at http://www.nolo.com
greg

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Is he selling his business or the rights to the planes? If the latter, his financial records, etc. for DC are not applicable.

Sierra Gold

I would have to strongly disagree. The asking price for the rights is contingent on their profitability. This means that the sales and financial records for those plans/kits has to be certified and presented as part of the reasons for the asking price. Would you give $10,000 for the Aquila if it would take 50 years to make back just the sales price?

[sierra-gold]

We can all disagree to disagree.

My point was that revealing past years of financial records to justify the sales price of a whole Business is routine and often required.

Purchasing equipment or production rights does not require the revealing of the previous Business financial records and you would do your own business plan to determine the potential profitability of marketing the components you purchase.

Sierra Gold


**** If I plan to purchase a Design & Graphics business, I want to see 3 years of financial statements. If I buy their equipment and the rights to a book they published... I do my own business plan. *****

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

You may not require a previous sales history and that is your prerogative.

I wouldn't touch any kit rights without knowing what the sales history of those kits has been. This does not exclude one from doing their own research.

No Sale!

[sierra-gold]

I totally agree that knowing the numbers of kits sold for some number of prior years would be good info... but not really a predictor of success or failure.

Does he rent a warehouse or operate out of a home garage space? What would you be doing?

I can't help but feel that Joe Wurts, or Larry Jolly, or Ray at Skybench Models would do much better than I at this venture. Existing good will and visibility.

How long a loan can you get to cover the start-up costs of $68,000 plus???. And at what interest rate? If you have $68K cash laying around, what income will you lose in tying it up in the purchase?

The decision to purchase for $68K or whatever price, comes back to a detailed business plan and has little to do with his business success/failure.
It is unlikely the new business's operating expenses would closely resemble DC, unless you purchased the business... not just supplies and rights.

OK, I'm done. :)

Sierra Gold

[fly1milehi]

All good points!

For me personally I'm with SoCal. No sales figures = Zero value of the copyrights.

Greg,
Now Im finished too!

[AirBornOne]

I can see this thread getting worn but thanks for your inputs.
A few details though,as I understand them...
The name 'Dream Catcher' is Not for sale.Hence an operating business is not for sale.
No mfg. equipment is offered for sale (saws,sanders,cnc equip.,hand tools,routers,drills etc.).
Essentially just the 'rights' to mfg. for sale and the model specific molds,patterns,plans,engineering data,cad-cam or cnc files,fixtures.Provided that any or all of these items exist for any or all of each model offered.
This would mean an additional investment to setup a shop,material and supplies inventory etc.
It would be Great if DCHobbies himself could/would participate in this discussion but as I understand from the web site he is working hard to finalize any outstanding business as well as deal with some personal matters.
All the best to Dc Hobbies,fly on dude! :)
Skies.
Jay.

[11b2c]

The only organization I can think of that has that kind of money is the AMA. They ought to buy the rights, auction them off, and write off the loss as sort of a donation to the hobby. I think these rights are that important, worth more than letting a disgruntled businessperson take them down with him.

[sierra-gold]

I had the same thought earlier this morning, but for whatever reason didn't express it. Maybe even lease the individual model rights out to a business - existing or start-up.

Sierra Gold

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Might as well get the AMA to buy the plans. They bought Northrops IMS and made it a money looser. They could loose money on these too.

Notice that Bill Northrops still has his plans service from Model Builder Magazine.

[skybenchone]

Both Dave Thornburg and Mark Smith have told me, when I asked about producing some of their kits, that I could, because they were Public Domain. Comments please.


Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters.

[fly1milehi]

Ray, I would think anyone could produce kits from a Public Domain. Obviously a competitor could do the same thing. If a design appears to be copyright protected though I would think that, similar to the graphics idustry, you could ask permission in writing to use the design to manufacture kits. Some what like the graphic design industry does when using a photograph for a secondary use (like part of a web page). It never hurts to inquire or to make an offer.

my 2 cents on that
Greg

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Any plans that have been sold to and published by a magazine have the same copyright as the date of that magazine was published. If Dave or Mark or whom ever sold their design and article to the magazine then the magazine owns it. You need to get and read the release forms they signed. I still advise talking to an IP attorney.

[steelhead]

I was about 4 hours too late ordering a couple short kits back in December. Life goes on, and we just have to see what happens to the kits over the next year.

Anyone who wants to send me a $5,000 dollar cashiers check (non refundable- only applicable towards purchase price if agreement is made between myself and applying party) for me to list the broken molds and vintage planes in my shop, to see if you want to buy them for $100,000 is more than welcome to do so :)

Im waiting by the phones :)

Just wait a month or so and see how things come out. I doubt the planes will disappear, Roy at DChobby has a genuine want to see the planes continue, and wants to get rid of the whole shooting match in one transaction, maybe for tax reasons or something.

Dean

Dean

[AirBornOne]

Roy at DChobby has a genuine want to see the planes continue
...Actually,It is my thinking that Roy is not interested in the longevity of 'his' planes.
I know if I was concerned about the ongoing production of the planes I would have an itemized inventory available for prospective buyers in addition to sales figures and an estimate of tooling and material costs to interest anyone not currently in the business of production.Otherwise it sounds like what I've heard referenced to as 'a pig in a poke' (?).
J

[georgeg]

Hey,

A Legionair is much harder to build than anything Airtronics ever put out, and I've scratch-built 3 of them. It isn't that hard to "make your own kit." I'm not braggin' just stating the fact that it AIN'T that hard... What I'm REALLY saying is if it WAS hard, I'd have never made it through the process. Try it, you'll like it!

Real men scratch build...

Jack

Yeah, but where do you get Legionaire plans?

[ejett]

If you want to build a Legionaire, talk to Ray Hayes at Skybench. He is working on kits and plans for that plane.

Jack was saying that if you want to build an Airtronics something, you can build from plans. Some Airtronics (Lee Renaud) plans are available from RC Modeler magazine.

EJ

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Notice the copyright statement on RCM plans:

[ejett]

So, the magazine has rights to their plan version. If you buy the plans from the magazine and build a BoT from them, you are within your legal rights to do so.

Same with the Lee Renaud plans offered by RC Modeler. If you want, you can order those plans from RC Modeler and build a plane from them with no legal issues.

Re: Legionaire - Ray has a price posted on the website for the full kit, but a note saying they are not yet available.

EJ

[schrederman]

I got the Legionair plans from my late brother. He also had an old fuselage that wasn't good for anything but a plug. I had never done any mold work, and gave it a try. My mold was good for about 3 pods, and then, on advise from a well-meaning but misinformed friend, I didn't use mold release, just wax. I destroyed the mold and the pod that was in it. Having sent my plug to Ray Hayes, I decided my molding career was over. I have enough stuff for 2 more Legionairs. Once they're done, I'll not build any more of them. I have another Grand Esprit and another Houston Hawk to get done, too. I'm helping on a scale project and since I just got my own real glider, I'm backing off building so much, as you might understand.

Jack Womack

[trident58]

Check the DC Hobby website; it looks like the kit rights have finally been sold. I'm holding my breath to see if these kits do get put back in production.

[lrsudog]

Any plans that have been sold to and published by a magazine have the same copyright as the date of that magazine was published. If Dave or Mark or whom ever sold their design and article to the magazine then the magazine owns it. You need to get and read the release forms they signed. I still advise talking to an IP attorney.

It all depends on what rights were included in the sale. I'm under the impression that the issue is similar to the IP rights of an author of literature.

It is entirely likely that RCM (Or whomever) only bought North American publication rights for the plans, and the original designers retained such rights themselves or such rights reverted to the designers after a contracted number of years.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

I guess one could just call up RCM and get a copy of their contract. Still the copyright statement is on all plans that RCM publishes and resells. Seems good enough to have world wide rights (treaties) to me.

Wonder who the sucker is that bought the plans.

[oracle_9]

Doesnt matter, as long as someone continues and "produces" the kits from DChobby, hopefully they will not cheap out on quality (ie. balsa quality, how it is cut...etc)

[trident58]

Doesnt matter, as long as someone continues and "produces" the kits from DChobby, hopefully they will not cheap out on quality (ie. balsa quality, how it is cut...etc)
Yes, quality is my one concern. Say what you will about DC Hobby, they had GREAT quality in their kits.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

How do you make a small fortune in the hobby business???

Start with a large one.

Some have more money than common sense.

[oracle_9]

Well, the person who bought might sell off some of the 52 plane rights. Anyway, it would be interesting to see what is going to happen in the future, since we are all in the dark to this matter, in a sense.

[justforfun]

[QUOTE=SoCalGliderFlyr]How do you make a small fortune in the hobby business???

Start with a large one.QUOTE]

That's so funny, always coming from someone that has no idea about the hobby business and most of the time anything else.

I found this thread and it is great for a laugh, not for any substance.

It is always funny to read what people say, when they have no clue as to the subject matter.

When you want to sound intelligent and you know nothing of truth to say, make something up, and someone might believe your intelligent.

Builders builder, want to be builders post about building. Their posts start out like this, I knew someone that knew someone that did this.

Clueless. :confused:


JFF

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Two posts to your credit here on RCGroups and nothing worth while to add to the discussion. Maybe you will edit this one like you did your last one in October.

[Mark Miller]

JFF...

Just what experience do YOU have in the kit business to make a comment like that about someone who manufactures kits?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Mark Miller
Isthmus Models

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

He's trolling Mark. Not really worth the trouble of acknowledging. Started in October of last year. Most likely a second identity.

By the way that's designing, proto typing, contracting and recently spending down a large fortune.

[Roy Simpson]

Funny.

SoCalGliderFlyr, give me your name so I know who does not know what they are talking about.

If I know you, then I can respond with truths, not a guess.

Roy

[Roy Simpson]

Hi guys.

Roy Simpson

[oracle_9]

I saw that earlier post too, as well. and it was signed "JFF" on the bottom.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

The jokes on you Roy. Other subscribers have received the same post -- before you changed it. If this is your practice to deny your actions and use argumentive redirection I can see why so many others have had problems with you.

No I have not bought anything from you or have I ever worked with you or for you. Is there a reason why you brought this up? Could it be that those fortunate folks may know something?

I'm so special!!!!

*** Personal Attack - Warning Point Issued ***
Please Do Not violate the forum rules

[oracle_9]

Is he really Roy?
There is absolutely no reason why he should ask for your name.

Socal.....give him your name only when he provided you with a Cashiers Cheque of $5000.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

I'm not impressed Roy. You are welcome to stop posting here too. You just may be kicked off the board for following all my previous posts and making unwarrented comments.

Then you send me direct threats via PM.

"" It's scoming your way.
I've ask RCGroups to track you IP.

I'll find out who you are one way or the other.

Hope you are ready when I do.

Have a nice day.

Remember this is a PM.

Roy Simpson""

I'm So Special!!!!

[Roy Simpson]

I'm not impressed Roy. You are welcome to stop posting here too. You just may be kicked off the board for following all my previous posts and making unwarrented comments.

Then you send me direct threats via PM.



Nothing better to do, than make things up? :(

You are sad and I truely feel sorry for you.

Please seek help, life is to short for you to live in a make believe world.

Roy

[ChuckA]

Right on Roy. Don't pay any attention to anyone who doesn't use his real name

Chuck Anderson

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

I take it back. Your retirement has given you way too much free time. As other subscribers to this forum already know you are the one denying what you have posted. Started with your post where you went back and edited it. Then you deny that you ever did the first version. Problem is Roy a first copy was sent to every one. So you are caught in your own deceit. Just as I have the PM you sent and now deny. Perhaps a screen capture of it will suffice as a proper record.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Right on Roy. Don't pay any attention to anyone who doesn't use his real name

Chuck Anderson

Would be truly wonderful if he wasn't paying attention. Instead he's cross posting to every one of my recent posts. Truly juvenile behavior. Only proving out previous statements others have made about his personality or lack there of.

[Roy Simpson]

I take it back.

Proves nothing (maybe to you), but that you lead a sad life.

I am sorry, that you have nothing else to do.

People like you, lonely, sad, no skills, I truly feel sorry for you.

Even in retirement, I have better things to do than banter with a 30 IQ want a be user.

Please have a nice day and speak of thing you know first hand. Not what others have told you.

A name would at least let me know why you think you have an axe to grind.

My guess is, you gave my company a credit card number that was no good, you got put on a no sell to list (mostly happened after 2 credit cards were decline) because of that and I understand you are ashamed of it, just a guess on my part.

Is that why you will not give me your real name, you are ashamed, for bad credit?

Have a nice day; this will be my last post.

If someone wants to ask me a question, just give me a call, number listed on my website.

Roy

[schrederman]

I'm just real surprized the moderator hasn't cut you both off....

[Roy Simpson]

Right on Roy.

This is really funny, I have the time to laugh.

See you at the NATS, if not sooner.

Love your plot program, always did.

Some of my algorisms just aren’t working. Don’t have a clue and like they say, if I do not who does.

The old timers are all gone (retired), the new kids are like talking to a wall, YNWIM.

Roy

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Boy Roy! You are so far off base. Like I said before I have never done business with you.

Your actions are confirming what others in this thread have said about you. I was taking back what I said about you enjoying your retirement -- way too much time on your hands. I don't take back one word of any of my other posts.


Thermals!

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

I'm just real surprized the moderator hasn't cut you both off....

Same here.

[lrsudog]

I give this thread about a New York minute 'till it's locked.

What, did third grade let out?

[fly1milehi]

Sorry Roy but I think you are the one that is sad and lonely and trying to cope with some kind of issue that is not apparent to the rest of us.
Your typing skills and broken sentence structure bother me, considering you are accusing others of having low IQ's. As an example;
... " My guess is, you gave my company a credit card number that was no good, you got put on a no sell to list (mostly happened after 2 credit cards were decline) because of that and I understand you are ashamed of it, just a guess on my part."...

Roy is English your first or second language? "(mostly happened after 2 credit cards were decline)"??????? do you mean "most often happens when 2 credit cards are declined?"

Anyhow I have ordered a partial kit and plans from DC Hobby, the sale went fine, nothing great about it, nothing bad happened either. Then I made the mistake of contacting you when you first listed the kit rights for sale back in October? I asked questions of what was included in your rights and ask for information about how many Sagitta molds you had and what tooling was to be included. Your response was to say that it was too much effort to list it all and "what was my offer?" So I emailed an offer based on your information and it seemed to offend you. Im sorry for that. I then offered to raise my offer if you would provide records of the number of kits and plans that you sold of the Sagitta's in the previous 3 years but you declined.
I thought maybe I was indeed being unreasonable, until I started seeing posts from others that seemed to think your $5000.00 dollar NON-REFUNDABLE request to learn anything about the tooling, molds, and lack of inventory was a CRAZY expectation.

My name is Greg Drake.. you can look it up in your records becuase it doesnt really matter to me whether you know my "name or not" You come across on these posts as angry and having some aggenda or personal vendetta.

[Ric Duley]

After finally getting home from a very difficult 14 hour day at work (the 11th day in a row) I was hopeful of spending a few minutes surfing RCGroups - unfortunately this ridiculous thread will now dominate what little time I have while I clean it up and issue some well deserved warnings. :mad:

I'm just real surprised the moderator hasn't cut you both off....Fortunately someone finally did report this thread, which is how I found it. I thank that user for that. You know who you are. ;)

Whenever a post or thread is getting out of line please use the "Report Bad Post" button (little red triangle under each posters name) to bring it to the moderators attention.
If it had been reported earlier perhaps one of the other mods would have caught it earlier and shut it down.

We can't read everything and rely on the users a great deal.