Rolling circles

[jaco]

I've been trying to do rolling circles but i'm not sure if you put in just rudder at the right time during the roll or rudder then elevator? Can anyone here do 'em?

[stuartaw]

Do you mean 'proper' pattern rolling circles with a fixed number of rolls per circle (eg 3 rolls per circuit), or just flying a circuit round the field while rolling continuously?

[RandyD]

What are you flying? Rudder/Elevator only, R/E/Ailerons or Elevator/Ailerons?

[jaco]

I'm flying an E3D and am not doing any pattern stunts. Just want to get the basics down for rolling circles. I assume you let the ailerons roll and then give rudder when the plane is in the correct position to turn? Have had very limited success.

[Jurgen Heilig]

Try elevator instead of rudder. ;) Jürgen

[jbourke]

Set up low rates on your ailerons to correspond with the desired roll rate. Switch to those rates and hold the aileron stick all the way over for the exercises to follow.

First start off by holding constant aileron and learning how to hold altitude while rolling in a straight line. This requires elevator and rudder coordination to do this effectively. Don't try rolling circles until you can roll the airplane at least three times non-stop.

Start learning a rolling circle by performing a rolling quarter turn. Ignore rudder and concentrate just on elevator and aileron. The aileron stays on one extreme the whole time while the elevator moves up and down continuously. Learn the timing necessary for the quarter turn. After that is smooth add in the necessary rudder inputs.

After that just keep adding additional quarter turns until you can go the whole way around the circle.

Mistakes are common at first and can leave the pilot in an unusual and unexpected orientation. Don't try them until you are comfortable with the plane at any orientation/airspeed combination. Practice high enough that you can be safe.

Jim

[stuartaw]

What Jim suggests is the 'correct' way, but if you don't want it to look particularly 'pattern', and don't want a particular number of rolls per turn, you can use just elevator.

As in Jim's suggestion, first get good at multiple rolls in a straight line. You'll be alternately pushing down and pulling up on the elevator as the model rolls. To steer the plane left and right apply the elevator a little early or late. You will also need to hold it on slightly longer than usual.

Eg, if rolling right, and you push the elevator on a bit early, it will turn you left. Doing elevator late goes right.

Stuart

[preivers]

I also learned it the way Jim mentioned, and it worked for me.
With smooth elevator inputs, I need no rudder. Maybe if I wanted to fly pattern, the rudder would become mandatory. For the moment I do not object to a little porpoising.

[GWRIGHT]

The method detailed above is the best way to learn them, IMHO. once you learn to use just elevator,.. then start adding rudder,..my only addition to the above would be to setup a vary slow roll rate to begin with. That gives you time to think about the elevator inputs. Once learned, you can start adding rudder,.. maybe just when upright,..then ad the rudder inverted. once you become proficient at these,..you can add rolling loops, rolling figure eights,..rolling cuban eights,..etc. etc. i find it necessary to break-down any manuever into it's components (as detailed above), then add the components together one at a time. It's taken me more than a few years to get comfortable with rolling figure-8's with a helicopter,..but now I find myself adding rudder (tailrotor) when needed,.. which has really smoothed them out,.. especially the backwards ones. I did them for a long time without any rudder input whatsoever. While not the proper way to do rolling circles/loops/etc, it gets you over the hurdle by just using elevator, then you can add a component at a time (i.e. rudder inputs only when upright,.. then only when inverted, then add them together).

[gjestico]

Backwards rolling figure eights with a heli? !!.
How many E3D's do I have to go through to get there?.:D

[Viper Pilot]

Originally posted by jaco
I'm flying an E3D and am not doing any pattern stunts. Just want to get the basics down for rolling circles. I assume you let the ailerons roll and then give rudder when the plane is in the correct position to turn? Have had very limited success.

The rolling circle is one of the most difficult pattern out there. If you are "not doing any pattern stunts" you may be a bit ahead of yourself .

[rcav8r2]

This may sound silly, but try learning with a trainer.... They won't be patter perfect, but I find them easier with a trainer than a hotter ship.
Once you get the "beat" down ( that is when to apply what elevator) it is a simple matter of changing that "beat" for each plane.
You really don't need rudder either ( but it is a good idea to learn to use it) as I can do a 5 roll rolling circle with my Zagi with no problems. The 4 roll rolling circle has proven a bit more difficult though :-)

After that try rolling ovals ( harder than the circle) and figure eights ( even harder)

[jaco]

Thanks for the tips. I've been working on the simulator with your suggestions and I think I have the right idea. Now maybe with years of practice I'll be able to do it consistantly!

[Choppa Nutta]

Backwards rolling figure eights with a heli !

GWright have you got a vid clip of you doing this ?
This is to much for my tiny brain ;|

I am trying to learn backwards flying with a heli, difficult enough as it is but backward rolling cuban eights, woo too much, tips towards this heli thing much appreciated.

I can do some lumpy rolling loops and circles with a FW on my sim but backward rolling cuban eights, woo too much, mind you even more impressive if you could do it with a plane :)

Where does one go to find out about the established flying patterns ?