One more Mfg closing

[Mr B....]

After 14 years MM Glider Tech Announces Close of Business 1-05


MM Glider Tech has announced that effective January 1 - 2005 it will no longer be a business, and will be discontinuing its advertising and product line. Company president Merrill Brady will suspend business operations to pursue other business interests, continue towards an engineering degree, and spend more time with family.

However, Mr. Brady has made it clear that he will not disappear from the R/C hobby world. He has pledged to continue supporting the existing MM Glider Tech products that are in the field, including builder support. All existing tooling, manufacturing equipment, and shop facilities will be retained. Mr. Brady will return to R/C sport and competition flying on a hobby basis.

MM Glider Tech’s existing supply of products will continue to be available through the www.mmglidertech.com website until depleted, with periodic website specials to liquidate overstocks as appropriate. The phone lines, website, e-mail and surface mail contacts will be maintained and attended.


Merrill & Margaret Brady

[Solcat]

First DAW now this. It's sad.

[Pteradactyl]

It's happening in the fuel section of the hobby, also. Marutaka (the old Royal Models) is quitting, too. It seems that in many cases, the kitters just can't compete with the ARF's and RTF companies. Personally, I've only tried one ARF (Great Planes new Fling HLG) and if it's any indication, I'll never buy another one.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing really wrong with it, but it just wasn't much fun trying to figure out why they designed/built it like they did. I guess I'm just a builder at heart - much more fun! John

[11b2c]

A word of wisdom to modelers- buy when you can, even if you don't have room on the building board to make it right then. You never know when the company or individual will decide to retire. And the purchase might take the company out of the red.

[Thomas Wang]

Dear Merrill & Margaret Brady,
I am sad to here the information, do you remember me? I bought 2 Illusion kits from you 3 years ago, I'm in Beijing China, I like them very much, and modify one to a 1.8M span glider, it fly well.and I want to konw do you have some Illision or Grand Illision kits? I'd like to collect some of them.

Thanks and regards,
Thomas

[skybenchone]

Merrill,
I know you have enjoyed the 14 years of hard work with MM Glider and although I am sadden to see the end of MM Glider I'm sure you will move on to other ventures equally satisfying. When I started Sky Bench, an old sage in the hobby told me, getting in the sailplane mfg. business was a sure way to ruin my hobby. Sure am glad you will still be on the flying field.

I'm not sure ARFs are causing the demise of kit builders as much as lack of interest on the part of the hobbyist. In the beginning, nineteen thirties, kits were for sale everywhere, sport shops, bike shops, department stores, drug stores, everywhere and as one old timer told me, everybody was building model airplane kits. Well, today, everybody is surfing the web. Things change.

Competing with China ARFs is not possible, the only market for kit mfg is the dwindling few that enjoy building ( I am one of those ), if there was a strong market for kits, China would be making them.

Enjoy your new found life Merrill.

Best regards,
Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters

[intheswamp]

Merrill,
I know you have enjoyed the 14 years of hard work with MM Glider and although I am sadden to see the end of MM Glider I'm sure you will move on to other ventures equally satisfying. When I started Sky Bench, an old sage in the hobby told me, getting in the sailplane mfg. business was a sure way to ruin my hobby. Sure am glad you will still be on the flying field.

I'm not sure ARFs are causing the demise of kit builders as much as lack of interest on the part of the hobbyist. In the beginning, nineteen thirties, kits were for sale everywhere, sport shops, bike shops, department stores, drug stores, everywhere and as one old timer told me, everybody was building model airplane kits. Well, today, everybody is surfing the web. Things change.

Competing with China ARFs is not possible, the only market for kit mfg is the dwindling few that enjoy building ( I am one of those ), if there was a strong market for kits, China would be making them.

Enjoy your new found life Merrill.

Best regards,
Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters

Ray, as you well know, I'm a "hither come lately", so my opinions don't have deep roots in rc. But, what I have found is that I enjoy the building process very much even with my newbie mistakes, redundant questions, and sometimes aimless mutterings. I think the problem with lack of kit/scratch builders is a sign of our times...instant gratification...the quick fix....the "I want it now" syndrome. In the past people were proud to work hard and attain whatever it was they were working towards, but now, it seems, they'd rather "beat the system" and get what they want the easiest way they can. Look at the disfunctional welfare system...it's sinking because of the free-loaders that are probably more able to work that you or I.

In regards to RC, there are certainly places where the RTFs and ARFs are appropriate, and I would think that they're good for helping keep the RC hobby going, but I think too many folks see the nice, sleek-looking ARF and say "yeah! I want one of those" and plop the plastic down for it, which strengthens the hobby in number, but not in knowledge. If the majority of RC'ers turn to pre-built, where will the new models come from? What would compel the designers to design newer and better planes...to sell the design to the ARF producers?

Then you have "finesse'". Do you want to take a plane out of a box and fly it, not knowing what's under the cover, if it's put together to give the most performance/efficiency. Or do you want to put time and thought into building a plane to give it a slight "edge" and make sure there's glue where it's supposed to be? The newbie that I am, I'm still working on the "edge" part, but the challenge is there...is it that folks don't want the challenge or is it simply a situation of the mom and dad working to make ends-meet and that four-letter-word "time" is something scarce for them.

Lot's of angles to look at. Basically the same thing has been happening with HAM radio for years...fewer and fewer kit vendors and builders. I think the largest segment of building radios is now in QRP, reduced power rigs,....working with finesse' rather than brute power...trying to get everything tuned together to communicate thousands of miles on less than 5 watts. This is a small group, though, not the mainstream ham. Licensed hams have been on a decrease for years as the older guys die out and become Silent Keys. The ham frequencies have been under attack by communications companies trying to turn it into commercial-only use and with the decline in licensed hams the communications companies have more ammo to go at the FCC with. I think the decline here started at the demise of the old tube-rigs...transistors and now SMT has created easily mass-produced radios and SMT is beyond many hams personal or equipment ability. Technology improvements can be good and bad.

In respect to the Chinese not producing kits...don't underestimate them...if they see a way to make a U.S. dollar....but, for now, I think they're betting on the American people's desire for that "quick fix".

So much for my rattlin's,
Merry Christmas everybody!

Ed
Intheswamp

[fly1milehi]

I agree with everyones statements above. This hobby is advanced with the readily available ARF RTF's and the down side to that is the number of people who will never build a model. I think the reason that kit manufacturers in general are dwindling is in part a reflection of our whole society. "I want it know" "Don't make me wait" "Why acquire a skill set when others can already do it" To me its sad that I can't convey to a young person the value of following instructions, building a creation that will fly(!) and seeing the "light bulb" go on when their work takes to the sky! Its not just flying models either, the plastic models have become more and more "pre-fabricated" again in the interest of "get it now" "dont make a mess on the Berber carpeting" "Wow that paint stuff stinks"
All of our "work with your hands and mind" hobbies be it R/C models, plastics, rockets etc., are competing against Playstations, iPods and Instant Messaging. Not to mention the parents that enable these distractions to be the primary thoughtless entertainment. (not all parents and not all kids but very few people still recognize the value of completing a project)
My intent is to build and fly as much as possible and any time I get a young person who walks and says "cool" I am going to put their hands on the transmitter and give them free flight glider kit or a beginners model rocket kit(with balsa fins not plastic) before they walk away.
Happy holidays to all, and to my building board I go!!
Greg

[skybenchone]

Ed,

In the grey areas of my memory bank, an old mag article quoted Mark Smith, past owner of Dynaflight, Mark's Models, saying he sold 35,000 kits of just one of his designs. This was over a relatively short period of time. Those days and numbers are long gone, if they were still with us, you betcha China would be producing the kits for the USA market and Tower Hobbies would be selling them.

I have a hunch you know as well as I do, that everything has it's price. I'm thinking the outscource of American jobs and the lack of buy america spirit here in the USA is going to take one big junk out of the rear of many, many Americans. I know, this is not the place to mention such things, sorry.

For the next two weeks I will be building woody sailplanes in prep for next summer's flying and not thinking about anything but blue skys and puffy clouds.

Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters

[ejett]

Merrill:

I understand and respect your decision in this matter. I know that deciding to leave a 16 year long venture is not an easy thing to do. I too will miss the availability of your kits, I currently have an Illlusion in well worn condition and a Commoner NIB.

Thank you for your years of support to the hobby. Those of us who build what we fly will remember your efforts fondly.

On the other hand, I look forward to the day I can meet you and shake your hand in person. Best wishes for the future. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. May 2005 bring you success in your new endeavors.

EJ

[intheswamp]

Ed,

In the grey areas of my memory bank, an old mag article quoted Mark Smith, past owner of Dynaflight, Mark's Models, saying he sold 35,000 kits of just one of his designs. This was over a relatively short period of time. Those days and numbers are long gone, if they were still with us, you betcha China would be producing the kits for the USA market and Tower Hobbies would be selling them.

I have a hunch you know as well as I do, that everything has it's price. I'm thinking the outscource of American jobs and the lack of buy america spirit here in the USA is going to take one big junk out of the rear of many, many Americans. I know, this is not the place to mention such things, sorry.

You've said a mouth full. I'm in the tire business with Goodyear being my primary supplier, one of the two US rubber companies left in the business (Cooper being the other). I see the China-syndrome *everyday*...and it's already hurting many, many Americans.

I just hate that I got into the hobby so late...missed a lot of good kit manufacturers. Just in the last couple of months I've seen Dreamcatcher and now MM Glider close the doors.


For the next two weeks I will be building woody sailplanes in prep for next summer's flying and not thinking about anything but blue skys and puffy clouds.

Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters
Enjoy yourself, Mr. Ray, and may you and yours have a wonderful Christmas!
Ed

[intheswamp]

Merrill & Margaret Brady, I've never spoken with you nor purchased a kit from you as I'm just nearing the end of building my first kit, a Gentle Lady, but I'd like to wish you the best in your future endeavors and a smooth path along the way.

It's interesting to think that years down the road there will be folks standing under blue skies and fluffy clouds thrilling at the flight of Marauders, Illusions, and other MM Glider ships...all because of the contributions that you've made to the hobby. Thanks and best wishes for ya'll.

Ed
Intheswamp

(Hmmm, maybe I need to go check your website out again... :) )

[CoastalFlyer]

I'm very sorry to hear this. You've done a lot for the hobby and you'll be missed.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

[rcsoar4fun]

I think each one of us should do something to help new guys learn to build. I currently fly a couple of ARFs, but there is just something missing.

I got a Scorpio Condor for Christmas, and it is cool. However, there are 10 things I could have done better, too bad most guys these days would never know it.

Kristopher

[RyanPSU21]

I must be the weird exception since I grew up on videogames and still enjoy them (Nintendo and playstation) but also build planes. I built model airplanes from about the same age as Atari showed up. I've flown RC for 15 years or so now. I've owned 1 ARF in all this time. An FVK Electron, which I sold as I'd rather have a plane I built. All my planes have been built up balsa from kit or plans. There are some of us relatively younger generation that still enjoy building. I'm now at the point where I have more desire to design my own planes instead of kit or plans. I wouldn't blame the parents for the instant gratification concept for the loss of kits. What I notice is that most beginners come on here now and are encouraged to teach themselves to fly RTF planes without ever going to the club or built plane, then they go from there without any building skills. As they advance to more difficult to fly planes they still have no building skills so it becomes ever more and more difficult to start building since they would probably have to take a step down in plane difficulty to fly so they can get a kit with easy enough instructions and parts to manage as a first kit built.

[R/Cflyboy]

I've been building planes since the 50's. First control line then into free flight. I was into free flight compitition, when it became obvious that to continue I'd have to buy a Russian built plane, $450 I couldn't afford and something told me it's not right to have to pay to compete. I see this happening now in the sailplane/glider arena. If you don't have the LAG from the ARF or RFT suppliers at very steep prices you can't compete. At first this disouraged me until the regeneration of NOS and "Woodies". But NOS and "Woodies" yet are not the mainstream of competition. Look at electrics, so far kit builders are doing ok and competing well.

Ray has started Woodcrafters but, I haven't yet seen a great movement nation wide. I've seen one or two local contest a year but clubs seem to be reluctant to go this way. If there was big interest in wood compitition and clubs supported it more, wood kit manufacturers would flock back to kit production. Lets face it manufactures go where the money is and currently it's in ARFs and not necessarily sailplane/gliders.

[rcsoar4fun]

Ryan-
You must be about the same age as me. My first kit built plane was a Gentle Lady kit that I won at a club raffle. I think I have built 4 others since then, about to start on another :) .

Kristopher

[fprintf]

I see this happening now in the sailplane/glider arena. If you don't have the LAG from the ARF or RFT suppliers at very steep prices you can't compete.

Close, but not quite. If you have the building skill to build a light plane then you can have a very competitive Bubble Dancer or Allegro-Lite that will compete with the best molded RES planes at a fraction of the price, around $200. But you do need building skill or someone to show you the way. Most people do not have the building skill to make such a plane or the equipment to make its equivalent in a full-composite plane the Aegea or Supra. But it definitely can be done, and is the route I am going eventually.

So really your statement is probably a reflection of the sentiment of this thread -- most people would rather pay to have a Czech worker make their high-tech sailplane than to acquire the skills and tools necessary to build a similar work of art.

[RyanPSU21]

It may also be that a lot of us who build woodies aren't really into competition. I build mine just to fly around. Sailplanes are my favorite type of plane but I have no desire for competition at all. I haven't tried it, I'll admit to that. But I have tried competing with other things I enjoy, sailing, model yachts, skiing, and I find I burn out rather quickly and need to take a break for a few years to get interested again so I've learned it's not for me.

btw, I'm 28.

[NewfGlider]

I like woodie sailplanes for 3 simple reasons. . . . .

1) I firmly believe buy American when possible. :eek: Perhaps this is politically incorrect and provinicial, but I would similarly expect those in the EU to want to buy EU produced goods, etc
2) Those Fiberglass / Composite / Plastic RTF jobs are simply ugly.
3) Building and repairing balse sailplanes is an activity and challenge that I immensely enjoy.

I'll be placing an order from Ray at Skybench when he returns from a well deserved holiday. Perhaps someday I will participate in Woodcrafters or another woodie sailplane contest. Keep buying those woodies!

Good luck to Merrill in his future endeavors.

BTW - I am 36 and new to this hobby. I have been teaching my 8 year old to fly a GP Spirit

[schrederman]

It would be very easy for me to enter the wood-kit business. I would not do it because of my past experiences. I watched others that I knew go through the burn-out and BS of being in the kit business in the '70s when it was booming. Even with what I did, I am still questioned and more-or-less ridiculed for some of the design work, even though it is successful in it's purpose and in it's performance.

We generated some interest with the Houston Hawk, but there were very few sold, in reality. They're available but not selling well. There, for about $300- you can have a competitive model that will launch to the moon, work light lift, and come home against the wind. But YOU have to build it. I could probably have them built overseas and get $800- a copy for them. I absolutely would not do that. In my opinion, ARFs should not be called models. They should be called toys. Modelling is an activity. Men and women that build models are modellers. Those that buy toys are missing the point, in my opinion.

Many think that ARFs bring lots of people into the hobby, and I agree with them, to a point. Factually, ARFs only bring them slightly into the hobby. They aren't really into the hobby until they figure out the real nuts and bolts of it. I chuckle to myself when I read a "build" thread for an NYX or an Icon. Where will all those people be if we had a situation like WWII where this stuff isn't available? Will they be builders? Some will but most wont.

I've read lots of comments like, "I don't have time," and "I can't do it". Between those lines I read, "I don't have to, and no one's gonna make me!" I gravitate toward the Woody Movement to relieve myself of those that I see as wanting toys and wanting to win regardless of cost in dollars. If it weren't for ARFs, where would they be? What would they be doing with their leisure time.

What's up with this? What's this guy ranting about? I guess these would be fair questions. Do I hate ARFs? Do I hate people that fly them? No to both. I have flown a couple of ARFs myself. I lament what I think they have done to the hobby. I miss seeing what other builders bring out to the field. I miss the innovation that comes from modifiactions of kits and from self-designed gliders. I miss the Soarcraft, Airtronics, Marks Models, Cecil Haga, Ed Slobod, Craft-Air, and so many other great kit manufacturers. This is a slice of America that I got to participate in and I am blessed for having done so. I am cursed as well because many want it to be just about the money, and just about winning.

Profit has to be part of it. I paid what others told me was a pretty high price for a kit, recently. I was glad to do it. If it keeps that kit maker in operation, OK. I am saddened by the Brady's departure, and by Dreamcatcher's closing. Regardless what you think of someone personally, and I know niether of them, it's not good for R/C Soaring or for modelling in general. As to Ray Hayes and Mark Miller, and others that are staying the course, I salute you and will support you if possible.

Please don't take this as a poke in the eye for ARF drivers, but, let me close with these questions. When nothing is available but what's on the ARF market, what will you fly? Who will determine what you fly? If you don't want to fly the next double-throw-down, Ukranian, Czech, or Chinese-built thing that sorta looks like a sailplane, where will you turn? I guess it boils down to one big question... Would you build a sailplane if there was no other way to get one?

Sorry for the rant, but I wouldn't be in the kit business for all the tea in China. Some, including my wife, believe it or not, have suggested that I make a foray into the realm of kit manufacturing. Thanks, but NO THANKS!!

See you at the field...

Still disgruntled because there was no Kestrel kit in my stocking...

Jack Womack

[kostuk]

Merrill,
I enjoyed your Illusion and Marauder kits. They were an excellent value and gave many wonderful hours of soaring time. I also enjoyed talking with you at contests and seeing your latest creations. I hope that you can still make it out to the SW Classic and show us how its done with your Marauder!
At any rate good luck on your new endeavors and keep active in soaring if you can.
Best Regards,
RAy

[rcsoar4fun]

I made some short kits for a while back in High School. They did pretty well, a few even did well in some of the Florida contests. That job sucked. I don't know why anyone would purposefully want to go into that business. Of course; THANK YOU for those that do.

I don't think we should exclude those that build planes that are not wood. Composites are hard work too.


So who here (besides me) has been thrown out of a club for refering to all the ARFs as "mold blight"?

Kristopher

[BMatthews]

I think fprintf and Schrederman have the gist of this properly. It's not that the market isn't there any more but rather that the large number of folks these days just don't want to build. And couple that with the burnout of turning an avocation into an occupation and you have a formula for such companies closing up and moving on.

Bear in mind that MM and DC are very small companies providing a cottage industry level of service. This is not intended to demean them in any way. It's just recognition that it's someone in the hobby that got carried away and turned it into their work. Momentum will keep them going for a time but either burnout, harsh reviews or just plain old age eventually takes such companies away from us.

I've seen this locally with the BY&O propeller company that is now owned by Brodak. It was one grizzled old timer flyer that loved the old Y&O props and found the "tooling" (a couple of modified profile cutters and a couple of sanders) and had the love to buy it and start making props. Later he hired ONE part time helper. That's it. In his case old age caught up with him and, sadly, he's not with us anymore but while he was I can remember him saying that he had NO idea it would be so much work once he got the market enthused.

The wood kit glider industry is very much a cottage sized market these days just like free flight stuff. As such we'll see folks come and go so if you see something you like it's worth getting it now as there's no guarantee that it'll be around for long.

[ejett]

Schrederman:

Your question about "Would you build a sailplane if nothing was available?" is a valid question. I would answer this question with a resounding "Yes, I would". That is why I want to build some of these older models now rather than buy some fancy new molded stuff. I have built planes from plans before and will do it again. It is not that much more difficult than building from a kit, just a little less convenient.

I even prefer to build my own power planes, on the rare occasion that I get an urge to build a power plane (Haven't had one in a while, tho.)

I guess I am definitely in the minority, but I like building planes and I like to build older designs just because flying them brings memories to me and others when they are flown. In my twenties, I could have gotten head over heels into contesting, but didn't have the opportunity. Now, I don't really have the desire to be a serious competitor. My one and only contest so far (Oct 04)has shown me that contests can be fun and so I will continue to enter contests on occasion. For me they will be social affairs more than competition.

Merrill:

As has been mentioned before by others, I wish you all the best in your new endeavors whatever they might be and hope to meet you one day on the flying field. Thank you for the dedication and service you have been to the hobby for so long.

EJ

[Mark Miller]

What I like about this business is the process of finding designs and developing a kit. That is my hobby now. Sure, I get to fly too and I enjoy it but if it weren't for developing kits I would not get as much enjoyment from it. I in no way need it for income as I have a real job and so does my wife. Whatever I make from the business goes back into it. To me, and I'm sure Ray H. also, it is also about preserving the history of our hobby. Making it easier to build these old planes is a good thing. But there is nothing I get more enjoyment from that looking at a big grin on the face of someone flying a kit you have made available. I will keep doing it until I stop feeling that enjoyment. I will make sure that if that time comes that the kits will still be available somewhere. They and you guys deserve nothing less.

Mark

[skybenchone]

Wood crafters 05 entry list as of 12-27-04

Ch 11 and 42 are available, more info on the Wood Crafters page in my web site.

http://www.skybench.com/woodcraft/2005/entry.html

Wood Crafters is a reality because I wanted to fly woodys with other woody enthusiasts. Some of the finest people in RC soaring will fill the skies with their treasured woodys at Muncie, IN this coming Memorial Day Weekend. We fly for fun and if we choose to, we fly the competition events as well. Some come just to fly their scale woodys, others to fun fly and others to fly the Championship contest........ but for sure, we all come for the fellowship and joy of flying woodys together.

I'm sorry I didn't think of Wood Crafters sooner, it likely would have kept the woody enthusiasts on the club flying fields.

Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters

[R/Cflyboy]

I guess what I was bemoaning was the "good Old days" when a guy could build his own plane with the material at hand for a reasonable price (reasonable to one man is probably not reasonable to another) an go out and compete if you want to. Most often, I didn't finish anywhere near the top but, I had fun and got enough new ideas to keep me tweeking and changing and applying new building methods and I kept coming back. It was the hope that with my idea or better building skills/flying skills I might win, not just out compete with more dollars. When high tech (read more expensive) planes consistantly beat out woodies, it was the death nell of the woody kits. Contest attendance dropped off to the point that some contest were no longer held and people stopped buying woody kits. The average guy had a hard time justify the expense of competing or just Sunday flying the glass slippers and so went off to someting else. Besides what you bought is what you got, not much "kit bashing" to be done.

I now fly mostly for the pure fun of it. I do attend the few Woody/NOS contest in my area. Funny, the last NOS contest I attended had 12 ARF Bird of Time competing out of twenty some entrants total. It's interesting that a NYX building thread last what, three pages, look at the Huston Hawk Project or the Nostalgia Fever got Pix? threads. People are still interested. I think another thing that was easier to come by back then was close-in flying fields. We used to fly in a big park right in the middle of town. Now it's soccer fields or baseball/softball fields.

I've now got interested in wood scale sailplanes. I've buildt one from a kit and now have two more to build. I've aquired some plans and some how to's on scratch building scale sailplanes so this gives me another avenue to use my Balsa shreading skills.
It's been said in this thread before but building your own allows you to express yourself, your ideas, your skills in something that performs in a manner that's an awe to see. I've been involved for a little over a year now in wood scale sailplanes and it's interesting to see the exchange of information between builders, it's like the good old days of woodies!

I'm in the later part of my life and I've seen many things come and go. I guess seeing R/C kits and in general kit building and building skills go is a sign that were getting older. My wife has kept-up her skills in Tating and Lace making, very few know how to do these now-a-days. Building skills are in the same or close to the same boat. I'm not sure if it's a sign of out times or that it is our times: buy it, try it, don't like it, go on to something else. Or, if it's broke find someone to fix it. Who does home or auto repair themselves now a days. People used to do a lot of the things around the house themselves not today...to busy earning money to pay for the repair of what the aready own.

Enough of my running on about the old days, I have enought of the old kits and a couple of scale sailplane kits to keep me busy. Someone once told me that if you find something you like be sure to buy a life time supply, I have two Marauder kits stashed away, thanks Merrill and good flying.

Gary

[skybenchone]

One way to put it:

It use to be pilot skill plus building skill equalled success, today, it is pilot skill plus dollars equalls success which has equalled fewer pilots.

One of the most dramatic losses in contest activity accurd at the AMA/LSF Nats when hand launch went from 75 contestants to 25 from one year to the next because of the discuss style launched, store bought entries.

Facts are, as the price of the toy goes up, there is less interest in all hobbies or what ever. Tower Hobbies has a zillion gas powered arf's and many of them are great buys on the surface, but many of their sailplane arf's are poor quality and so that leaves the high dollar European stuff as the only source of good quality arf sailplanes. For that, I guess we can be thankful, at least a high quality sailplane arf is available.

One thing woody enthiusiasts can do, but don't seem to have the guts for, is take on the job in their sailplane club or individually of holding woody only fun fly and competition events. It worked for me and it will work for anyone that wants to step up to the plate and lead instead of follow. Most clubs today are lead by the moldy enthusiasts, so if you don't get this picture of what is going on......... do what so many woody enthusiasts have done, hang their head and walk away.


Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of the Wood Crafters

[Soar_dude]

I am so sorry Merrill I will miss you and wonerful support for this hobby. I have Grand Illusion IMHO it one of the best 2 meter RES planes around. The grand was the first glider I had that had SD airfoil I flew this plane so much that I plum wore it out and then built another from scratch my first scratch build and it came out awesome. Again IMHO Merrill designs some great gliders! When ever I could I would tell folks to buy his designs.

Soar Dude

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Me thinks that many dropped out of hand launching as they blew out their shoulders. Mine is shot. Even discus launch hurts. Yes I'm trying to get the insurance to fix it.

Mark; there are many old RC sailplane designs that deserve to be left in the dust. Dream Catcher has found this out the hard way.

[BMatthews]

One way to put it:

It use to be pilot skill plus building skill equalled success, today, it is pilot skill plus dollars equalls success which has equalled fewer pilots......

Around here at least there were a large number of folks that only flew gliders for fun and joined the local contest focused club strictly for access to winch equipment on casual flying days. The number of contest fliers at that time was perhaps 25%. This past summer I dusted off my old BoT and went to a local contest and was shocked to find that there was about 1/2 the number of entries as 10 years ago. And the vast majority were the same guys as back then. When I asked about this I was told that the sport fliers are all flying electric assist gliders now because they don't need any launch equipment or the big field to set up in, dogs and kids messin' with the high start lines, etc.

Given that many of the sport fliers would be the types to buy the less intense older designs I can't help but wonder if we are just seeing a natural shift in the mass intrest area. I know that when it comes to sport flying it's the electric for me. No fuss, no muss and minimal equipment laid out on the field.

The high buck aspect was also mentioned as a key aspect to the downturn in intrest.

Sadly that same weekend there was a Woody contest about twice as far away. I wish I'd taken the extra time to check it out but I got lazy. Won't make the same mistake twice.

[skybenchone]

Bruce,

Sky Bench has been real lucky in regard to guys switching over to electrics, the airfoil I use on my Bird Series handles the extra weight of electric equiptment like no other.

Small fields and no fields have definetly played a role in switching sailplanes to electric. In my case, my electric winch seems to be gaining weight.

I have started building the 64" Sparky from my kit........ can't wait to see this old design in the air......

Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters

[RyanPSU21]

I fly from a glow club. I know that there is a sailplane club but it's about 15 miles farther away from where I live then the glow/powered plane club which would take about 30 minutes longer to get to on a low traffic day. Because of this all my sailplanes end up being electric. I wouldn't mind having a non-powered sailplane but I don't want to mess witih a highstart or winch which generally do not go well with powered planes. I fly powered planes also to join the sailplane club would mean joining and maintaining memberships at 2 clubs. I think among the powered plane flyers and what I see show up at the flying field. It's got to be about 95% ARF's these days. On one occasion this past summer some guy had a fairly minor crash with a 4*60 ARF. It looked like it would take 4 to 5 hours to repair. Some cracks in the fuselage and some front half ribs needing replaced. The guy didn't want to repair it and was going to throw it away but some other club member rescued it and said he would rebuild it. The guy didn't want to repair it because it would take too much time. Definetely the guy had never built a plane and wasn't about to start building or fixing anything.

[rcsoar4fun]

A few years ago I was a member of a local club and took on the roll of trying to boost membership. I sent spoke with several guys that were interested, only to have them show up a few times then disappear. I later found out that several highly respected members of the club were telling them it would take $2000 to get started in the hobby. They were saying it was a waste of time to fly anything besides an Esprit and Stylus. What a load of crap. When I asked the members about it I was told I really wasn't serious either because I flew a Lovesong and didn't fly contests. I left the club, soaring and sold the Lovesong. I regret selling the Lovesong and giving up soaring. I am back into soaring, have a lovesong in the box and the club is (almost) no more. Lessons to be learned by those trying to grow the hobby. Not to mention a 'Song won at Visalia :)

Kristopher

[Mr. Innocent]

I just received a mm glidertech F-86 from a friend and it flys GREAT I'm sorry to hear that the makers of it won't be producing them anymore because their great flying planes... hope all is well and have fun in the rc hobby

Justin

[skybenchone]

Kristopher,

I witnessed the same thing. The club I belonged to at the time was having an evening get together of fun flying that started for some fellas around noon and lasted till dark. This was a very well atended event the club had come up. One evening a farther and his son, approx 10 years old, joined us and started asking questions. And sure enough, they were shown the $2000 package. We never saw them again. This happened to most of the clubs around the country.

A good program for a sailplane club if they want to attract new people and I have fears that most clubs don't, is a designated trainer who has a buddy box and maybe a foamy.

Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of the Wood Crafters

[RyanPSU21]

The club I am a member of, although not a sailplane club does have 2 club trainers with buddy boxes. They offer free flights to non-members to try and get them interested. They have by far the best organized training program I have seen in the 3 clubs I have been members of. I think it helps a lot in getting new members. I think a lot of people who want to learn to fly or try to teach themselves to fly do it because either they aren't aware of the club, or they are aware of it but have no real idea how to get an instructor or training and are intimidated by the process of trying to figure out how.

[scalesoar]

I like to play devils advocate sometimes, I am not mean spirited, and those who know me, know I am a jolly friendly sort. Thusly declaimed, I need to say the following.

Of course it is not good to see a hobby builder, supplier stop doing what we want him to do, supply us with affordable models that fly well. It is not sad, it is the way things work. We can stand around, pat ourselves on the back and lament the old days invoking a false sense of patriotism, or we can buck up and look in the mirror... If one wants to place blame on such happenings as one individual choosing personal freedom over slavery to customer demands, and persue life as it was "before the hobby business", we should blame ourselves and our age demographic for our plight, and congradulate him for his choice. Hooray! one more sane individual rejoining the modeling for fun contingent. :)

China is not to blame, ARF's are not to blame, short attention spans certainly are not the reason modeling via building from sticks has met it's demise, or near demise, We are.
(Kudos to Ray H., Tom Martin et al for keepin on the wood thing)

We demand low priced goods (unless we are competing), we shop at Wall mart, don't say you don't, Wallmart is way to successful to deny it. :o

Around here people say "Wallmart's" as if it were some kind of living entity, pretty scary...

I can avoid recrimination because of the following:

I am an old fart
I design/build models for money in my barn
I sell RTF expensive models "shudder" from E.Europe
I am an acomplished scratch builder
I choose to fly in my spare time
I buy and fly Chinese ARF's


That disclamer probably won't work, I am sure I have offended someones sensibilities, and possibly overstated my abilities.

Everything is made in Asia if you didn't notice. Well almost everything sold in mass quantities. I think we still make some autos and washing machines in he U.S.

Few things highly specialized, or sold in small quantities come from Asian sources. Why? The Asians are smart, have lots of stuff we want for cheap, we have money to send them, which they in turn use to increase their economic infrastructure, via capital goods, raise their standard of living... we should be afraid. Shipping costs though, are high, so if you can fill a container, China will send it.
Models do come from Eastern Europe in small quantities because they are the Euro equivalent to struggling U.S. model manufacturers, but work for less money for longer hours, and arguably make superior products out of exotic materials. It is after all a global market today, consumers realize it and exploit it.

This actually should be a good time to compete against the Euro moldies as they are priced so high now because of the dollar being in the dumpster. (The war in Iraq did cost a little more than expected, so we had to print up some more C notes)

It is hard work to make kits, let alone Arf's. Americans do not want to work for dollars or pennies a day. Most small U.S. mom and pop model manufactures realize this in about three years of doing business. Hooray again for M&M for going the distance so long.
I have been building Pegasus tow plane kits for only 6 years. It has gotten a little old at times, especially late into the evening of wing pressing day. (6:00 am to 11:00 PM) but I produce these in spurts for a limited market, so it isn't so apparent how little I make on this part of my Hobby business. I keep it fun.

The truth be known:
Here are some facts from my world. I started the Pegasus enterprise offering plans and templates with Compufoil plots and detailed instructions, I sold 3-5 sets. I then offered builder kits with foam cores. I sold a dozen. I decided then to offer almost ready to cover airframes, I sold 100 the first year. I actually got many more requests to build and cover planes, but I did this about 5 times and said whoa, I want to do something else with my evenings and weekends. People demanded arc's, I raised the price, but it did not matter to those who wanted pre built planes.

Resale:
Sales on mid priced German "kits" died off as the Euro gained in value against the dollar and hobbyists saw that they could buy a Czech RTF scale moldie cheaper and not have to build. (it is about percieved value)
Sales on large expensive prebuilt ready to fly fiberglass sailplanes remains steady, and there is great demand for the $200.00 $500.00 dollar small RTF moldies from the Czech Republic. Who's building? Well there are some, it is a good thing agreed, but hey lets' not get moribund about a paradigm shift...

New U.S. guy on the block, Tom Martin is a man to watch, keep an eye on him. He is energetic, has lots of talent, knows how to promote, and is offering a small fleet of laser cut and fiberglass component kits of scale sailplanes. Mostly Schweizer sailplanes, mostly very small, but he is in a good spot right now.(Euro, & nobody else doing it here) He is also holding his own woodie event every year in Kansas City. He does not limit it to woodies, but is promoting scale and aerotow as well as winch launching, and electrics. EMM sponsored it's Gold Medal event there last year.

What I have already noticed is his slowly increasing ARF line.

I have been around the scene long enough to see many companies come and go. In TD, it is, and has been always a fad thing. My friend Ed Slegers admitted in the heyday of foam Obeche production,(1980's-90) that it was the "airfoil Dejour". He would use new airfoils every year just to meet the demand for the latest and greatest to keep selling kits. Michael Selig was providing slight variants of his foils to drive the frenzy. today, it is the "Moldie Dejour". Icon of late, Sharon, NYX before that and whatever, in and endless stream of identical sailplanes. Is it about lazyness? inability, no, it is about Bling Bling, and status in this case. Does it keep competitors out? That's not a logical assumption, it has been proven over and over again throughout the history of U.S. competition soaring that a good pilot with a reasonably average plane will out fly the highest tech plane in the hands of an average pilot.

Go to a contest and observe the age demographic for much of the answer, fat old guys(remember I am one of them) with more money than they had to spend on their hobby when they had kids at home. I love exceptions, and young pilots exist and do compete, but not so much as the above. Telling the young new guy that he needs a 2000 dollar moldie is a sin, yes it is. But you can bet your booty he was drooling over it.

Some of you have noticed an incongruity in my musings, first we demand cheap, but then go out and spend thousands on molded ships, what gives?
Two dynamics going on here. One is the mass market, or a small segment therof, and the other is the so called elite buyers and flyers who want what they think they need to be competitive. That is a fickle market at best.

All the best to fellow hobby manufacturer guys and Gals past and present, here and abroad, big and small. It is not about success or failure, but about the contribution to the sport or hobby. We do it partly for money but mostly because we want to, like to, and will stop when the fun runs out. Or our wives say who are you after 5 days in the shop making boxes. ;)

All or any of the above may be taken tongue in cheek.

Happy new year

JD

[johnsocj]

Bump.

[johnsocj]

I ran into Merrill this weekend in Long Beach, as I was doing some work for the opera. He had a wonderful scale Minimoa, and touched it down on the beach path as sweet as can be. We got to talking, and realized that this man is still in business, and though he describes it as more of a "hobby" now, has a great deal of stock left to sell. He's even still producing a few things.

From the Website:

"MM Glider Tech is Still Shipping Orders and Offering Product Support

Although some new products are being developed, and no longer a full-time business, MM Glider Tech is fulfilling it's promises by continuing to offer product support. Company president Merrill Brady has been filling and shipping orders for the company's contest-winning Marauder 'RES class sailplane, as well as several other products ranging from free flight catapult gliders to the hotrod Wedgie flying wing foamie. "I needed to pursue other career directions for my family, the shop is still operating, shipping orders, and providing support for the hobby. I'm pleasantly surprised that quite a few orders are coming in. I've made this into more or less of a hobby now, and it's a lot more fun for me..." he said. In addition, the mmglidertech.com website will continue operating, offering tech tips, articles, product support, and more.


Merrill Brady recently achieved his LSF Level V rating, which is the highest
level of achievement for R/C sailplane pilots, and he will also continue to
have a frequent presence as a competition pilot."

[davidleitch]

Well I am one of the people that buy ARFs and fly them. I absolutely love model plane flying and my ver pretty, strong and good flying gliders from the Ukraine and Centeral Europe. I fly just about every morning I can around 7:00 am before work and more on weekends despite a wife, 4 kids and a demanding job.

I love flying, but I dislike building. Every time I think of another night outside having to install servos or glue up something broken or solder up another battery pack its a night of alienation away from the family. Further my building generally result in models that are less good than those provided by a skilled designer and builder.

Because of all the practice I can hit the spot more or less in comps, but I regularly get beaten by guys that build their own models, purpose designed for comps. I admire and respect those guys, but do I want to imitate them? No way.

Anyhow I'm always sorry to see a manufacturer leave any field because a business is a part of your life, but personally I very much appreciate the ARF market and its given me countless hours of themal catching, landing and aerobatic practice that I would never otherwise have had.

[rdwoebke]

Scale Soarer had some interesting points/comments. I liked the one about the fat old guys. :-) I started going to contests when I was 21 and now I am 30. At the last contest I went to (Cincinnati OVSS 1), I think I was still the youngest pilot..... When do I get to be one of the fat old guys? ;) The molded planes and ARFs are great quality stuff. I have mucho respect for the manufacturers. A lot of them (like Denny at Pole Cat and Phil Barnes) do a ton for the hobby. I have no beef against guys that want to fly ARFs and think it is great they are supporting the hobby. It is an interesting observation that out of the 40 pilots at Cinci last month, 3 (including myself) were flying aircraft they built (in the traditional sense).

I really like building. I enjoy spending time with my family as much as the next guy, but I can only watch reality TV so much. If my family wants to go for a walk or play in the park, I’d much rather do that then build a plane. But after 10 minutes of watching the Bachelor, I have to go spend half an hour in the shop working on a model. :-0 :-) My wife works a few nights a week, so after my daughter goes to sleep I can get an hour or so of building in. Last night I covered the other tip section on my Allegro Lite in progress. Hopefully soon it won’t be an Allegro in progress but an Allegro in the air!

I really like Tom Martin's stuff. Hopefully he does not drop out of the bus. I'm sort of on a budget, but hopefully I can aquire one of his kits just in case that were to happen.

Ryan

[rdwoebke]

One way to put it:


One of the most dramatic losses in contest activity accurd at the AMA/LSF Nats when hand launch went from 75 contestants to 25 from one year to the next because of the discuss style launched, store bought entries.



I'm not sure I buy into that. When it was 75 contestants, the vast majority were flying Logics and Monarchs. There were several flying 'Lil Birds or Zyphers, or Chrysalis, but these days you can get pretty decent wood kits like the Gambler. Or inexpensive foam build yourself kits like the DL-50 and the Boomer.

I can't remember ever seeing somebody launch a wood HLG as high as Joe Hahn was launching Monarchs or Wurts was launching over hand Encores. So that should not be too much of a change over the fact that the Taboos and XP-4s are going to out launch the Gambler.

The IHLGF's contestant count last weekend was the same as it was in '99. Denny is running a contest next weekend and he is looking to get 30 pilots.



Ryan

[John Gallagher]

Part of the reason for the fewer number of contestants at the hlg nationals is that now we have more hlg contests. Back then if you wanted to compete you had to go to the nationals.

[ejett]

One thing that has hurt the wood sailplane business and the foam core sailplane business as well, at least to some degree, (talking about Alcyone, sheet it, bag it yourself type planes here) is that those guys that are buying the molded ARF's get to spend more time flying than building and thus possibly wind up being better, more experienced pilots.

I know there are still lots of guys out there (like me) that fly for sport and build for fun. Hopefully, there will remain a few core suppliers for built up kits to service their needs.

EJ

[rcsoar4fun]

I think a lot of what we see how is an example of "be careful of what you wish for". Years ago people complained that it was too hard to get into the sport and the world needed more cheaper, high quality ARFs. People stopped buying kits, people stopped making them. Then it was a matter of needing to more people in the sport. I don't know about everyone else, but I see people all the time flying in my neighborhood. Is it good they are flying? Yes. However, I am venturing a guess that most of these people started out with zero experience or help. I fear this will not be good for the hobby in the end.

Honestly, its a hobby, something to be enjoyed. It doesn't matter what people fly, as long as they have fun and enable/allow other people to do the same. But I don't think that development will continue like it has in the past decade if everyone flies an ARF. The hobby as a whole needs to do all it can to encourage kit builders, they are building tomorrow's ARFs :)

Kristopher

[fprintf]

Thanks for the info. on Merrill still being in business. The Marauder is still a great plane, and I am finding it is very robustly built for not a huge weight penalty. It is, however, still somewhat of a floater/thick airfoil. Nice plane.

[Thermaler]

"Years ago people complained that it was too hard to get into the sport and the world needed more cheaper, high quality ARFs"

Is only part of the problem.

Have you taken a kid under your wing an helped him get started? Do you take your favorite mag to work to read at lunch? How about taking an instruction manual to work to read at lunch? I hooked three that way and one still flies.
Sailplanes are the easiest way to get started in R/C flying with a little help. Get a sailplane a few mistakes high and you get "OOps, saved it, Oops, saved it and maybe you go home with a whole sailplane.
With a power plane, even a slow trainer it can be "Oops,crash." Which is not all bad because you learn to repair the damage and you don't soon forget the oops that caused the repair (work) in the first place.
It boils down to, Sailplanes fly slower giving more reaction time to correct an Oops.
Another part is the instant gratification that we as Americans are spoiled on. Besides who wants to hide in the basement putting forth effort to create something that will require a little more effort to setup a high start or winch to fly getting a little bite of a workout when you can sit in front of the boob tube and watch people do dumb things on reality TV. Can't you hear your arteries hardening, don't you feel the muscles getting weak from lack of use? Pushing the buttons on the Godbox does not count as a workout.
And we wonder why we as Americans are overweight. Glues is dry, back to my board.

[rdwoebke]

Sailplanes are the easiest way to get started in R/C flying with a little help. Get a sailplane a few mistakes high and you get "OOps, saved it, Oops, saved it and maybe you go home with a whole sailplane.
With a power plane, even a slow trainer it can be "Oops,crash." Which is not all bad because you learn to repair the damage and you don't soon forget the oops that caused the repair (work) in the first place.


I used to think this way, but I have started to change my mind. In the past year I have started 5 new pilots (2 have not yet been out to the field with thier Cubs, but they got stick time on one of mine) with a little trainer plane that can be built for about $2.00. And, new folks to the sport get at least a little bit of building time in. My brother in law was very novice to any kind of building. He built his first one ( I had to make several revisions to get it flight worthy), then got pretty good flying it and got a bit "coky" and put it in a tree. It was completely mangled in the un-treeing experience, so he has been more careful with the 2nd one. :-)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251561&highlight=blu+cub+

With the great inexpensive gear from GWS and Hitec, one can have this plane in the air for about $110 (transmitter, servos, receiver, speed controller, battery, motor, and prop). And, the gear is usable in other planes once the new pilot becomes bored with this plane they can move the gear towards a more sporty plane or move the light servos and receiver towards a sailplane.

Ryan