Raptor pusher acrobatics!

[Synwpn]

One of my flying buddy did a slight mod to the Wattage Raptor and this is the results. Unbelieveable acrobatics. Gotta see it.

file is 4MB so please do a save as to download it to your systems.

http://rcgroups.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=18367

i've got a better quality video at 10MB. :eek: i'll post the url after i get it uploaded.

[hummingbird111]

whew!! nice flying nice vid too,,, boy the wind must have been blowing that day,,so what's the set-up on the 22??,, motor, batts.,, prop,,esc,,,???,,,any alerions??

[roccobro]

Wow!

Justin

[Synwpn]

actually, it wasnt that bad when he was flying it! i thought the wind was pushing up at that level too, until i asked him.

rather than give wrong info, i'll wait for j to chime in here.

best thing was watching the controlled flat spins! heh

[JVBAV8]

nose up tic tocs
and nose DOWN tic tocs
chaos!
cobra!

I should have some smaller designs like that one soon
sh*t, I can't even fly my heli like that (when it doesn't explode in the air)

got a lot of media for you and Carl
and what about that plastic?
JVB

[rookbartley989]

:eek: (nuff said!)

Ron -
'Will work for protoculture'

[RCParkflyer]

Most excelent, now Fess up!!! (PLEASE)

[Synwpn]

hahah i dont know enough guys. i know its a wattage raptor which has since been discontinued. and he's running a mega 16/15/5? 6? in it.

[JVBAV8]

with a few servos - hint

[monkamarm2000]

Thats a good vid to show why we need UAV's! Like Syn told me no pilot could survive that!


Barry

[hummingbird111]

:D,, Just got my second raptor {wattage}via parts,,in the mail today:D:p,, i'm gonna try to soup her up and add reinforcements

[sajkas]

Thanks Synwpn for putting up the video! The setup is a Mega 16/15/6 dd with a single Tp2100 3s turning a Gasser APC 7x4 prop.
"J"

[JVBAV8]

so he speaks instead of lurking

you are bad J
JVB

[sajkas]

Yep made my first post last night after lurking for close to four years, maybe we need to post a vid of the motor mounts.
"J"

[JVBAV8]

ok, tell em the secret about thrust angles

[sajkas]

Hummingbird111 I also put a carbon spar in mine at the CG.
"J"

[hummingbird111]

Humm,,?? ok sounds nice ,,,i wonder how a mega 16/15/3 would work,,:eek:

[RcAroPlanes]

I bet the motor was on a pivot of some sort. Great Idea. Just up and down or side to side to?

[Arbo]

amazing.

[Synwpn]

we'll need to get some pics up. digital camera as well as my dv will be going with me. now i understand what the two yardstick rulers are used for in the plane!

[sajkas]

Hummingbird111 the mega 16/15/3 will draw more amps and with the extra load of another servo and a prop that is almost always going in and out of static thrust conditions amp draw will be to high. I used a 16/15/6 to gain torque so that my amp draw would be lower when vectoring, the motor is vectored only on the vertical axis, I think we will try to get some video this weekend of the motor mounting. This plane is one of the most fun of all my aircraft, even helis. Hope my heli flying friends don't see this.

"J"

[EDC121]

sajkas Raptor up close

[JVBAV8]

almost got mine ready like that
just gotta do the electronics

[sajkas]

Thanks EDC121 for the pic, do you have any showing the vectoring? Cool JVBAV8. You will have alot of fun with it I am sure, you can fly slow at high AOA or fast, it's great. Now I can get them again so this past weekend I was fying very low and it puts a new perspective on the flight.

[EDC121]

Here is a closeup of the motor mounts for the J raptor.
Also included a picture of another raptor followed by ? (not sure what is trying to follow the f-22 might be Synwpn Mirage before he added the canards?) :cool:
EDC

[Synwpn]

heh, that reminds me. i need to find a motor for the mirage.

[roccobro]

COOL! Thanks for the pictures.

Justin

[JVBAV8]

think it is Larry's mirage
put your himax 2015-4100 in the mirage
run 3s

[sajkas]

And that is Romeos Raptor non-vectored and not as fun IMHO.
"J"

[Synwpn]

yeah, but no loose 2015-4100. will get another one maybe in jan. dont want to rip into my ductedfan setups for one.

[EDC121]

Yeah it is Larry's Mirage looking at the time stamp of 7:58 in the morning it's to early for Synwpn. :D
I still cant beleive he crashed the mirage in to a warehouse window, and a minute later put it back in the air.


To bad I waited to long to bid for the raptor on Ebay, got a message yesterday he sold the last one a week ago.
EDC

[JVBAV8]

too early for SYNWPN
ha ha ha ha

hey Ed,
you want my vectored thrust raptor?
J

[Synwpn]

funny. dont know how he got it into that old warehouse. that angle that i got that mirage in is the ONLY way it would fit into that building.

[JVBAV8]

anyone got mirage pictures from the roof wreck?

[rcguy01]

And that is Romeos Raptor non-vectored and not as fun IMHO.
"J"

please give more detail on your control surface set up. Thanks.
In the picture, it looks like your raptor has full tail elevator
and ailerons on the inboard wings? is that so? thanks

[JVBAV8]

nah, no ailerons
just the stock taileron setup with the motor mount pivoting vertically
look carefully at the motor mount
it is on pivots between the two wood plates
gives an incredible dimension of control beyond the wing stall

JVB

[Iswald]

That is really cool ill have to make one!!!
where is the conection to motor mount ,what servo does the vectoring??

[JVBAV8]

a third servo does the vectoring
tie strap 2 four-sided servo horns to the sides of the motor
make pivot pins using carbon rod, bearings, etc
use one of the empty horn arms for the control of the vectoring
maybe someone can take a pic tomorrow
JVB

[Synwpn]

maybe a short video of it so you can see how it works. i'll try to remember to bring my gear.

[Suntzu]

AHA!

I got a F22 TSH (wattage rebadged) on ebay for $62 AUD. About $40 USD. Cant wait to built it and put my align 1500kv brushless in it!

Can anyone point me to a build thread, I want to see if the build is hard. :) Merry Xmas!

[sajkas]

Not hard at all I have it mixed in with the elevator for up and down travel it is connected with a push/pull setup. I also can vector the thrust separately if I need to but I usually don't . Thanks again EDC121 and Synwpn for the pics. EDC121 If you don't take JVBAV8s offer I can still get the Raptor and have two incoming.

[EDC121]

Ok sorry for the wait. I wanted to get my hands on a F22 before posting all of the secrets. Thanks to JVB for selling to me a great plane. :D So here it is the crazy F22 raptor with thrust vectoring. This Raptor is the one in the video, modified and operated by sajkas :eek:

[sajkas]

Hey Ed do you have a pic of the servo mount got some pm's that need an answer?I think we need to do a video showing the movement.
"J"

[EDC121]

Here is the close-up of inside the raptor showing the servo mount location, and the rest of the electronics.
EDC

[EDC121]

More close-up pictures of the motor mounts.
EDC

[Iswald]

Thanx for the pics looks awsome!!
im building the gripen (by steve) and im gonna put this in (evil grin)!!

[feathermerchant]

Gotta shoot a video of mine today. It would be neat to compare. I have almost the same setup except APCE 7X5, no thrust vectoring, and I'll bet my CG is farther aft.

The 16/15/6 is THE motor for this plane. With a Tanic 2200 I can fly 2 8-10 min flights.

[sajkas]

Iswald, the Gripen was another plane that I wanted to try with vectoring especially because of the canards please make sure to post your results or better yet some video. I am only doing about 40 degree vectoring up or down and it has plenty of authority to completely flip the plane if I want to, actually the way I have it mixed I can vector separately or mixed in with the elevator and I have noticed I can fly without the use of elevators as long as the motor is running, still there is the desire to go to 90 degrees up and down (evil grin right back at ya)!!

feathermerchant, I used a 7x4 prop because I needed torque plus with an extra servo fighting the gyroscopic force from the prop it raised my amp draw so I had to sacrifice some speed. I have flown this without the vectoring and there is no comparison. This plane with vectoring is capable of completely flat spins in either direction, cobras, the tightest loops of any aircraft incuding most 3d planes and some stuff there is no name for. I let a friend who has a turbine F22 fly it and he said he is going to rig his plane with vectoring should be interesting if not expensive. I will try to get some video of his flight.
"J"

[feathermerchant]

I'm telling you that with the CG back ~2" it's a different plane. It will deep tsall like a free flight in DT. Fall almost vertically to the ground. I don't landit as you did in the video but vertically. I think the rear CG gives similar control authority as vectoring except of course that I have to be moving a little.
Must get video....

[sajkas]

I have flown this plane with the Cg rearward also, but the vectoring completely changes things that this plane can do. Try it you will see. Maybe I need to move my Cg back even with the vectoring Hmmmm.....
"J"

[feathermerchant]

There ya go!

[sajkas]

Well I tried moving the cg rearward the plane is still flyable in the nonvectored form but going vectored with the cg toward the rear proved to be uncontrollable :eek:, it would flip over backward at even the slightest up elevator. thankfully I had altitude as a pal :cool: next flights were moving the cg forward this actully proved to be an improvement on where the original cg was, rolls were more axial/faster and cobras were more easily attainable. Ran out of light yesterday so more testing is needed.
"J"

[Iswald]

cool salkas will do, any ideas on the mount for grippen??
Does anyone have good plans for a foam f22??

Iswald

[sajkas]

Iswald, Take a look at this picture and as long as you can make a place to mount the wooden rulers you should be fine. The canards on this plane should provide some interesting control aspects, I would opt to have them be on separate servos so I could mix in some kind of roll control also while at high AOA Attached Images
"J"

[sajkas]

oops sorry no picture of it, the closeup is on page three of this thread.
"J"

[sajkas]

Iswald I think what we would be looking at would be the equivalent of elevon mixing on the canards only elevator would be reversed. This is one that I will have to try next. Where did you get yours from?
"J"

[Iswald]

My what from????
so the grippen should have elevon mix canard and vector thrust .......this is gonna be fun!!!!!

[sajkas]

Iswald, I was wondering where you got your Gripen. I don't know how the real Gripen controls work but this is what I will try only because the canards might be able to provide an additional measure of control when at high AOA. Might have it set up the conventional way then switch to the elevon mix once in the air at a safe altitude.
"J"

[Synwpn]

i think he may be speaking of a depron made Gripen from the plans designed by Jetset44 (wonderful work! and free too! thanks Steve!)

the plans are on the fourth post down. going to build one J? i will probably wait till 3dfoamy has the kit ready. i'm lazy.

btw, i've got your 'paper airplane setting up with a wemotec microfan.

[sajkas]

Cool, I think I will wait for the kit also to much on my plate right now. Cool again might it be ready to go by Friday?
"J"

[Synwpn]

yep. possibly by friday. got several things i'm working on. :) need to carve the round lip for the fan. and decide on the motor. :)

[sajkas]

:D cool
"J"

[Iswald]

Yip Synwpn got it right ....
the gripen has canard elevon and ruder controll, and almost vector...
im planing on a brushless so couls i make a plate vector ????
I need to make a f22 next!!!I love it!maybe put twin vectoring cd rom motors in
whatcha think??

[EDC121]

Friday? If the forecast is right and we have wind gusts up to 35mph it should be an intresting morning! Synwpn you coming down on Friday? I will make it down to the feild tomorrow and practice my wing. I want to master the wing before I fly the Raptor.
EDC

[Synwpn]

heh, according the forecast, yesterday was supposed to be isolated showers, but it rained on me from hawaii kai all the way to kapolei.

but better to plan on bad weather and check with someone living near the flying area. :D

[sajkas]

Houston we have a problem! Iswald I think that with the Gripen the motor will have to be moved back to make sure that the prop doesn't hit the stab when vectored up. Problem here is having enough battery weight forward enough it may balance out but the long tail cone makes me wonder. this plane is built very light guess alot will depend on the motor weight.
"J"

[Iswald]

Sheezzzz didnt realize ......
maybe ill see ......gettin my brushless the weekend fingers crossed!!!

F22 plans please??

[sajkas]

I know it occured to me when I saw the thread with the Gripen, for some reason I was thinking that the Grigen had a twin tail. I don't know of any plans for the F22 the one I use is from Wattage or do you mean plans for the thrust vectoring?
"J"

[Iswald]

No i thought u maybe had some plans 4 a raptor ,,,,

Jea the grippens tail is MINI!!!
Im gonna start makin F22 plans 4 depron like the grippen...more space in the tail so i can put vectored motor in or 2 cd roms lol.......

Ill post the progress with plans !!!

[sajkas]

Cool, I am in the process of building the SU27 from Green Air Designs and it will be going vectored also. I have all of their jets so I have a full plate.
"J"

[Iswald]

Cool...

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[roccobro]

Cool...

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Right back atcha!

Justin

[sajkas]

Yes, HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!!!!!
"J"

[Suntzu]

Yes a big hangover to all for 2005!

I will be getting my F22 in a few days. Links to mods anyone?

cheers

[sajkas]

Suntzu, I know I can recommend doing the mod in this thread, it just takes an extra servo I used a hs81 because of the torque rating and it had to withstand landings. Putting the motor on pivots is easy and it makes for alot more manuevers than you would be able to get without it.
"J"

[Suntzu]

I did see that mod. Do you mix it with elevator? If so can a Flash 5X do this? What sort of manuvers become available?

[sajkas]

Yes, I have it mixed with the elevator, I have it on my stunt mode so I can turn it on or off and also can be operated separately. Cobras, high AOA, and heli manuevers like Tic-Tocs, what looks like a Chaos and others that don't have names and defy explaining are possible I don't think that the Flash 5X has a programmable mix available. Even without the vectored thrust this plane is highly manueverable. I ran a 1st gen TP2100 powering a Mega 16/15/4 turning a 6x5.5 on my F-22 before it went vectored it was just at the limit of the battery amp draw. Read what Feathermerchant wrote about his in this thread on page three I think. Oh I also put a carbon spar in mine at the CG, but uncertain if this was really necessary.
"J"

Sorry High AOA can already be done with this plane but I do believe that it is enhanced though.

[d bang]

This is really cool! Has anyone else put thrust vectoring on a jet?

[Ralph Brekan]

I love mine. I put a cheapo BalsaPR 21T outrunner that benches some pretty nice numbers (comparable to Mega 16/15/7 w/ 8x4 prop on 3s). I'm getting just about 20 oz of thrust at WOT with the stock Wattage 7x5 prop and my airframe only weighs 18.75oz with the TP2100 3s pack. I dont have thrust vectoring, but I dont think I'm really missing it.

I can tool around teh field inverted at half throttle and then push up into an doutside loop at 3/4 throttle! :D I'm getting well over 15 minutes of high speed flight and can drag thepack past 20 minutes with some fuel management. :) I bet my battery duration would be really long if I prop down to 6x5. Might be better on the packs too. They come out pretty warm. Not too hot to hold tho. :p I really love this plane. Hopefully someone pick up the mold.

[roccobro]

I hope they do. I would love to have a setup just like yours. I never heard back from any of those in Europe who still can get the kits under a different name (and the other Wattage DF planes too).

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

Yeah, the question is CAN THEY REALLY GET IT? :D LOL!

[roccobro]

We'll see.

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

Yeah, I have a few leads down under too... but actually finding one is another story. I'm thinking heavily about that new Su27 by Ultrafly. Same price and the Raptor too... :rolleyes:

[Ralph Brekan]

Check this out for Raptor Aerobatics! :D It's a "save as" video file for sure! :rolleyes:

http://static.rcgroups.com/gallery/data/500/35943F22Aerial.wmv

[RCParkflyer]

Nice flying field :)

I sure hope the SU-27 is easier than the ultrafly F-16 (It's the kit from hell) toooo many tiny screws and nuts to suit my poor eyes and 10 thumbs. Although I might solve some of my problems and install the Little Screamer in the darn thing.

If ya wanna build a SU-27 why not build Tom Nelson's with the free plans.

http://www.foamyfactory.com/plans/flanker/FF-Flanker-plans.zip

http://www.foamyfactory.com/images/flanker-shaddow-4.gif

[Ralph Brekan]

Yeah they have this for $129 with the BL motor at my LHS.... cant do it though... too many ARF kits still on the bench awaiting parts.... :rolleyes:

[sajkas]

Cool vid Kamikazi.
"J"

[Ralph Brekan]

Thanks J!! :D Its my ONLY saving grace in this hobby. Otherwise I'm just an ornery PITA! :p I love doing these little aerial projects... lots of fun... puts the bug back in me when I'm in a anti-RC funk... LOL!

[sajkas]

Just spoke to Synwpn and it turns out he has this kind of video stuff, I think we might try a video on my vectored thrust F-22 should be interesting.
"J"

[Ralph Brekan]

SWEET! I'd LOVE to see that! :D

[Synwpn]

i have a feeling we'll probably make some people get sick. hahahah

[roccobro]

Nice video!! Did you see the wobble of the right side verticle fin? I was expecting an inflight parts release. :p Now, could you fly by using only the laptop video screen in the van if you had the all the hook ups (kinda like a military AUV)? SWEET!

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

Yeah, it's crazy, I didn't noticed the flex in the starboard stab before the video! I fixed it immediately after playback! LOL! Its amazing what an onboard video reveals inflight!

Yeah, I'm SOOOOO glad the 7x5 prop didnt get a lick at it when it bent inwards! :o My stryker stabs have gotten ejected inflight and I can telly you they get mangled by the prop. That would have really sucked.

I also thought the same thing about the "ghetto AUV" setup. Only I'd put it on my stryker since it flys slower and more stable. I was wondering if I upgraded the video tx/rx if there's not a possible part time contractor gig in this? :confused: I could sit down on the border and scope out border crossers for the govt. :D Or help search and rescue scope out areas you cant get a helicopter into....

[sajkas]

Somebody should start a listing for jobs that require RC pilots and even RC drivers :D "J"

[Ralph Brekan]

I agree. I just contacted the Navy's UAV program. I want to demo my "disposable short range drone" at the demonstartion in July. :D I just need to practice watching the monitor while I fly....

Just by soliciting these to defense contractors I'm able to add this to my "studio expenses" and right off my hbby in 2005! That ought to make my wife alot happier with the hobby, er I mean new career. LOL! From fine artist to war profiteer... who wouldda thought!

Justin I thik you just opened up my eyes to the potential civilian "law enforcement/ park ranger" side of the UAV business to me. THANKS!

[roccobro]

Sure would be a great way to spot those out in open places. And would be fun too! Keep us posted.

Justin

[RCParkflyer]

He's going to fly over nudist camps LOL

[hummingbird111]

:eek::eek::eek:,lol he he

[Ralph Brekan]

Hmmm, nudist camps are a great idea! :D

[GeorgeZilla]

ok, tell em the secret about thrust angles


Can you let me in on the secret?