Depron JSF F35 :or my first EDF

[Mr. Boogie]

I now feel like I'm far enough along to show my current project. This build is inspired by great work demonstrated by my fellow ezoners. I can only hope to one day be as good as they are ;) .

and...

By the desire to try my hand at an EDF model. If this doesn't work I can always buy a FS F16 to learn on :D .

Materials:
I'm using 3mm Depron and Blucore (It's still a foamie after all!)
Some 1/16 lite ply.
Foamsafe CA
5 min epoxy
1/8" carbon tube, and slightly larger aluminum tube


I used Rhino and 3 views to generate a planform based on the F35 C model.
3mm depron is used for most of the plane, Blucore FFF used for some formers and motor mount.

Stats:
Wemotec Microfan/Astro 010 combo.
3S TP 1320 Lipo
21 inch wingspan. Full (semi-symetrical) airfoil.
Estimated AUW is 10 - 11 ounces ready to fly.

With the top off, holding the plane 3 inches above my digital scale I see 10oz static thrust. I expect this to decrease when I close the top up, but it looks promising.

Edit: Plans are here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3058790&postcount=53)

Edit: Video here (http://www.parkjets.com/mbf35.wmv)

Many thanks to Rcparkflyer for hosting.
Mr. Boogie

[Tomcat Fan]

Looks pretty sweet.

Glad to see you went with such a basic, conservative design for your first scratchbuild.

We call that sarcasm.

Pretty sweet looking plane, though.
Good luck with it.

[Mr. Boogie]

Controls will be full flying tailerons motivated by 2 JR 241 servo's.

[Mr. Boogie]

I'm using a semi ducted setup:

I've got a duct with a vacuum formed intake lip midway into the fuse.
The duct intake lip has a 5mm radius.
The intake tube is heavy photo paper and the efflux cone is cut transparency sheet.

Lining the walls of the fuse and also acting as structural supports for the top fuse is a funnel of sorts. Time will tell if this setup works, but it allowed me to quickly and painlessly duct this plane.

Pic One is the vacformed intake ring
Pic Two is the thrust cone
Pic Three shows the psuedo ducting

[Mr. Boogie]

Thanks Tomcat,

It's actually not my first scratchbuild, just my first EDF bird. I've done a few pusher jets and a couple of warbirds.

I forgot to mention that the fuse and wings are folded single sheets of depron, I am trying to minimize adhesive use and hopefully keep my weight down.

The wing tubes slide into the center former, which is a depron/ply sandwich.

[AirX]

Nice work Mr. Boogie.. :)

Eric Barnett

[Ralph A. D'Amelio]

Fantistic craftmanship......good luck on the maiden

Ralph

[rcjetpilot]

Mr Boogie,

You must be bursting at the seams:) Very nice indeed.

The wing section is very cool, the semi-symetrical root section transforms to a symectrical section effectively creating a mild amount of washout. Should work very well. If you meet your 10-12auw target you'll have a big winner!

I'm working on a slightly larger mini480 thing:)

Bob.

[Mr. Boogie]

Thanks AirX, Ralph, and RCjetpilot,

I'll be tossing her about trying to find the CG, and would like to maiden this weekend weather and family permitting.

Mr. B

[Mr. Boogie]

Mr Boogie,

I'm working on a slightly larger mini480 thing:)

Bob.

Rcjetpilot,

That slightly larger mini480 thing, wouldn't happen to be a F35 or F22 would it?

I followed your F22 build and even though you shelved it thought the thread and craftsmanship were top notch.

Mr. Boogie

[Stefan lamers]

Hi mr boogie
Looks very nice, i'm very curious how your first EDF will perform. Sofar i have only built propellor planes but i would like to make the step too.
greetings
stefan

[Tomcat Fan]

This is just looking truly beautiful, Boogie.

[rcjetpilot]

Mr Boogie,

The pictures are from a F-2 "Super Falcon" which survived one flight due to rx glitching. I knew better then to fly but.... Lesson learned. AUW 43 ozs and had 245sqr wing area. Wing loading was quite good with 12 faups but I never did get a chance to see how foam holds up when landing normally:)

I'm conviced that fff is good build material but only up to a AUW weight of 30oz. And I'm equally convinced that my raptor will only last for few flights simply from the weight of 12 FAUPS. So I shelved it until a time when I'm bored:)

So the mini480 thing is a smaller sport version of the original F-2. As soon as I finish up my remodeling work-build room its first on list.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298399

I'm really looking forward to watching your project.

Bob.

[Mr. Boogie]

Hi mr boogie
Looks very nice, i'm very curious how your first EDF will perform. Sofar i have only built propellor planes but i would like to make the step too.
greetings
stefan

Believe me Stefan, I am more curious than anyone right now concerning the "flyability" of this plane. It should be a great learning experience one way or the other.

Mr. Boogie

[Mr. Boogie]

Tomcat,

Thanks again, where in NY do you fly? I grew up in Brooklyn, NY but now call NJ my second home.

RcJetpilot,

I wish my garage was as neat as your's now is, my garage and dining room are overun with plane related items.

Update
Hope everyone enjoyed thier Turkey Day, I didn't get much done except for closing up the top of the F35. My templates were a little oversized and needed to be trimmed (no big deal).

My AUW as measured by my trusty digital scale is 10.5oz. With the top open and the thrust/efflux cone attached, I measured 10.2oz of static thrust. Sealing the top and measuring thrust in the same manner, I see 9.5oz of static thrust (we don't need no stinking cheater holes! :D ). This should be more than enough to get/stay airborn, I'm still trying to determine a good conservative CG point and initial control throws.

Mr. Boogie

[AirX]

What motor and battery are you using again?

Eric B.

Went back and looked. It is the Astro. Sounds great as far as power goes should be able to hand launch

[Thomas Nelson]

Looking good Mr B! The F-35 sure has lots of room around the fan for linkages, servos and such. Looks like a good choice. With your OD Hornet already under your belt you surely have the experience to make this work.

Keep the pics rolling - looking forward to updates!

[Mr. Boogie]

What motor and battery are you using again?

Eric B.

Went back and looked. It is the Astro. Sounds great as far as power goes should be able to hand launch


AirX,

I don't know a whole lot about the Astro, just bits and pieces I picked up from the Flying Styro F16 threads. The combo was attractive and seemed to have some history, this time out I wanted to limit any variables to the airframe only.

Mr. B

[Mr. Boogie]

Looking good Mr B! The F-35 sure has lots of room around the fan for linkages, servos and such. Looks like a good choice. With your OD Hornet already under your belt you surely have the experience to make this work.

Keep the pics rolling - looking forward to updates!

Thanks TN,

You're right about the space in the fuse, it borders on cavernous. Lots of room to pack on the weight and end up with a flying brick :) .

[esb-help]

very nice indeed ;)

[Mr. Boogie]

Okay,

I got the electronics placed and got to do some test gliding. Test glides were nice and flat at 25%MAC. I think I'll go somewhere between 25% and 17% MAC for first flights.

Rain washed out my hopes for a weekend maiden, so I'm still staring at her and getting more nervous by the minute.

Below I've included a picture to show the relative size of my bird and I'd like someone to double check my CG if possible.

I have a few tweaks to make to the CAD file and then I'll build a canopy (hopefully tommorow).

Thanks,
Mr. Boogie

[Mr. Boogie]

Here are some shots of my microfan intake ring and a view down the intakes. The last pic shows component placement and intended battery location.

B

[Mr. Boogie]

Bench flying on a rainy sunday.

[Mr. Boogie]

Finished up a canopy plug and formed a few today.

[WillowPtarmigan]

Nice airplane. The JSF will be used by the military I belive. I saw it on NOVA. :cool: :D :)

[AirX]

Nice plug for the canopy, fast prototype printer I suppose.. very cool... :)
Good luck ont he maiden.

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Mr. Boogie]

Here she is ready to fly (hopefully).

AUW is 10.4oz after some control surface/vert stabilizer sanding and tape removal. Thankfully the canopy didn't add much weight.
Static thrust is 9.5oz on a freshly charged battery, giving me a T/W ratio of .91.
My estimated wingloading is 10-11oz/ft^2

All electronics including the antenna are concealed in the forward fuse.
Maiden soon.

Mr. Boogie

[WillowPtarmigan]

Here she is ready to fly (hopefully).

AUW is 10.4oz after some control surface/vert stabilizer sanding and tape removal. Thankfully the canopy didn't add much weight.
Static thrust is 9.5oz on a freshly charged battery, giving me a T/W ratio of .91.
My estimated wingloading is 10-11oz/ft^2

All electronics including the antenna are concealed in the forward fuse.
Maiden soon.

Mr. Boogie


You ought to paint your F-35 JSF to make it more realistic. Just a suggestion. :cool: :D :)

[Mr. Boogie]

You ought to paint your F-35 JSF to make it more realistic. Just a suggestion. :cool: :D :)

Willow,

It will get painted, but I never paint a bird before I fly it for the first time (anymore).
Bad Mojo ;)

Mr. B

[Mr. Boogie]

Nice plug for the canopy, fast prototype printer I suppose.. very cool... :)
Good luck ont he maiden.

Cheers,

Eric B.

Airx,

From CAD to reality in the blink of a snails eye! (4 hours). :p

[WillowPtarmigan]

Willow,

It will get painted, but I never paint a bird before I fly it for the first time (anymore).
Bad Mojo ;)

Mr. B

That's cool with me. If you paint it, please show us. :cool: :D :)

[AirX]

Here she is ready to fly (hopefully).

AUW is 10.4oz after some control surface/vert stabilizer sanding and tape removal. Thankfully the canopy didn't add much weight.
Static thrust is 9.5oz on a freshly charged battery, giving me a T/W ratio of .91.
My estimated wingloading is 10-11oz/ft^2

All electronics including the antenna are concealed in the forward fuse.
Maiden soon.

Mr. Boogie

The numbers look fine, I love the AUW. When I built the first proto for the contest I was shooting for 14oz and tried to design it realy lightweight. I sheeted the fuselage and had a contest balsa plate wing and it still came out at 19oz AUW. I am working on proto number 2trying to sort some of the little problems I encountered out of it. Might try a nano model of it before going forward with the changes.

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Mr. Boogie]

That's cool with me. If you paint it, please show us. :cool: :D :)

But of course! :p

B

[U812]

Very nice! should fly on rails!;)

Steve

[AirX]

Airx,

From CAD to reality in the blink of a snails eye! (4 hours). :p

Sweet... :)

We live in a virtual world sometimes... :)

Eric B.

[U812]

God I hope so! LOL

[Thomas Nelson]

Boy! The numbers sound great - looking forward to your flight report!

[Mr. Boogie]

The numbers look fine, I love the AUW. When I built the first proto for the contest I was shooting for 14oz and tried to design it realy lightweight. I sheeted the fuselage and had a contest balsa plate wing and it still came out at 19oz AUW. I am working on proto number 2trying to sort some of the little problems I encountered out of it. Might try a nano model of it before going forward with the changes.

Cheers,

Eric B.

AirX,

Are you referring to a Proto F35 build or another plane. Either way, is there a post that you can refer me to that has details and pics?

I've been silently checking out the nano thread, great stuff and ideas!

Mr. B

[Mr. Boogie]

Very nice! should fly on rails!;)

Steve

Thanks Steve,

I expect it to be slower than my F18/SU27 pusher jets, and to this end I am wondering if my handlaunch should be a javelin throw or a strong level toss at the horizon?
Also does anyone know if torque roll is an issue with edf planes of this size?

Thanks,
Boogie

[Mr. Boogie]

Boy! The numbers sound great - looking forward to your flight report!

TN,

When I sized this bird I was looking to be about the same size as the Flying Styro F16 and still have close to 100% FSA. I'm pleased to be in the ballpark sizewise and weightwise.

I hate maidens, and I love maidens!

Boogie

[AirX]

AirX,

Are you referring to a Proto F35 build or another plane. Either way, is there a post that you can refer me to that has details and pics?

I've been silently checking out the nano thread, great stuff and ideas!

Mr. B

Just referring to my contest entry and how differeny materials effect the build weight.

Eric B.

[Mr. Boogie]

The wind finally cooperated and this morning I finally got to sucessfully maiden my F35.

Launch
I launched with 2 clicks of up trim and full throttle. A level toss afer a few steps did the trick.
At altitude she flew nose up with 1 click of down trim (past neutral). I think my thrust tube is aligned with the thrust line so next flight I'll move the battery forward a little.

Flight observations
I kept the flight to a basic pattern with a few rolls thrown in (no loops).
She's no speed demon but quick enough for a lightweight EDF (IMO). Just a bit faster than my parkflier (brushed motor) warbirds. The rolls were fast and nearly axial. Just above half throttle flight was also sustainable.

I climbed to what I considered to be a safe altitude for stall testing and eased off the throttle while increasing up elevator. Stall is a violent wing drop to the side. I pointed the nose down to gain speed and noticed a left/right oscillating roll for a few seconds before I could get control back.

It took me three passes to set up for a landing, the glide seems to last forever. I did notice that off power gliding showed a nose up attitude, so I might be tail heavy.

I really love the high pitched whine that the microfan generated. It was so cool to hear (and watch) the F35 go by full throttle on a low flyby.

I flew for about 6 minutes before bringing her in, a recharge of my battery shows that I used 444mah. Most of the flight was at 3/4 to full throttle.

All in all an enjoyable first flight and first EDF experieice. I think I'm hooked.
I'll see if I can talk a friend into videotaping in the cold.

Does anyone know what might induce the side to side rocking after stall?

Mr. Boogie

[AirX]

Congratulations Mr.Boogie on your success. I will bring the popcorn to see film. I dont know what the occilation might be caused by though.

Keep her flying... :)

Eric B.

[P. Richards]

Mr. Boogie looking at your prototype your horizontal tails will receive spoiled air from your wing and thus result in problems with your elevator controls. It will make you use full stick movement for controls on pitch, unless you have a certain degree of pitch down from root to tip it's difficult to tell from the picks but please beware..

P. Richards aka Swat Team

[Wayno-san]

Congratulations Mr. Boogie!!! Well done.

Yes, we would love to see video!

[Mr. Boogie]

AirX and Wayno-san,
Thanks for the encouragement. I've been watching the nano thread with great interest! Lots of good ideas and tips there.

P.Richards,
Could you please elaborate a bit more about the pitch down from root to tip? Could this be responsible for the side to side rolls?
I'm currently using full flying horizontal stabs, with about an inch of throw for pitch.

Thanks,
Mr. B

[Kevin Cox]

Congrats Mr. B and welcome to EDF.

The side to side roll/banking is a sort of stall trait. My F-35 does it too, I use it too let me know that I'm about to stall, i.e. don't give it any more 'up' input.

Enjoy

[Mr. Boogie]

Congrats Mr. B and welcome to EDF.

The side to side roll/banking is a sort of stall trait. My F-35 does it too, I use it too let me know that I'm about to stall, i.e. don't give it any more 'up' input.

Enjoy

Thanks for the welcome Kevin!
Your projects have been a great source of inspiration to me.

Also thanks for the tip on the side to side rolling. It was the first time I had experienced anything like this.

Mr. B

[Thomas Nelson]

Congrats Mr B! Now you can start getting aquainted with your new creation. Looking forward to seeing it in the air!

T ... I hate maidens, and I love maidens!

Boogie

[RCParkflyer]

Congrats on the maiden glad everthing went well for you!!

[Mr. Boogie]

I got another flight in today, 30 degree weather makes for some interesting flying.

I moved the cg forward about 1/8 of an inch and she still flies slightly nose up at full throttle. I did not need any up/down trim and speed seemed a little faster. There was a slight breeze so this may be responsible for climb under power.

Tried some WOT rolls and almost plowed her in, so I reduced the roll throws from 1 inch to 3/4 inch. I don't quite have a 1:1 T/W ratio but loops are nice, big and round. Threw in a few split esses (sp) the wings did not flex.

Flew for 8 minutes and then I found myself losing concentration, so I brought her in. 3 passes later I had a nice sliding touchdown in the grass, still trying to adjust to the glide :p .

434mah put back into the battery on a recharge.

I hope to have plans up shortly for anyone interested in having a go.

Mr. Boogie

[jmralves]

Hi Mr. Boogie

Nice plane you have there, congratulations!

You are using a microfan and a astro motor (9,5oz of thrust, as I read before), did you measure power consumption and maximum rpm?

I concluded today my microfan/cdr setup but I'm not satisfied with maximum thrust obtained, only 169g without lip at 10A.

what you think about this numbers?

TIA

Jorge

[RCParkflyer]

I've Hosted Mr. Boogies F-35 Plans (http://www.parkfly.rchomepage.com/MBF35.pdf) for your downloading and building enjoyment

[Mr. Boogie]

Hi Mr. Boogie

Nice plane you have there, congratulations!

You are using a microfan and a astro motor (9,5oz of thrust, as I read before), did you measure power consumption and maximum rpm?

I concluded today my microfan/cdr setup but I'm not satisfied with maximum thrust obtained, only 169g without lip at 10A.

what you think about this numbers?

TIA

Jorge

Thanks Jorge!

I am unable to measure rpm, but I did measure amp draw. I get 9.6A and 9.5oz (269g) of thrust at full throttle using a 11.1V 3 cell Lipo battery.

169g at 10A sounds a bit anemic (but I am no EDF expert).
What battery are you using and do you know the voltage your system draws? Also can you provide a little more info about your cdr motor?

You should also check the nano thread, I've noticed a few cdr's being used there.

Mr. B

[AirX]

Mr. B and JMRalves,

The amps will drop and the thrust will go up with a lip of just about any kind, when the airhist the mouth of the fan without a lip it is starving the fan at high throttle because the air cannot curve arround the thin(1mm) lip of the shroud, it just wants to continue to flow past therefor starving the rotor for airflow and running the amp draw up. My Microfan installed in the S-54 was starving the a little bit less than his due ot the ducting and the external lips on each side to help airflow at zero airspeed. With you lip on it it is very near your experience of 9oz and 11amps (running a Himax 2015-5400 on 3s-10.8 volts) and 120 amps. Sweet... it is now going into an F-18E that I drew up. Almost 1-1 thrust/weight.

Eric B.

BTW I will be building one of the F-35's from your plan... :)

[jmralves]

Hi again,

numbers:

169g thrust (to be confirmed tomorrow), 10.37A, 9.51V, 37300RPM, 3s2P 1200mA ETec 1stg gen

cdr 20mm, 8T 0,6mm Wye, 12 4x5x1 magnets 6poles (NNSSNNSS...).

I'm one of the people who use cdrom and EDF in nano thread :)

trade GWS EDF40 for microfan to improve thrust, in fact, thrust improve but not enough :(

Jorge

PS already have the plans, thanks!

[jmralves]

Hi Eric!

[AirX]

Hi Jorge,

Unfortunately the standard motors are working best in this fan an in the EDF 40, The Himax runs about $50us here in the States, you might think of going conventional for this.

Eric B.

Hi again,

numbers:

169g thrust (to be confirmed tomorrow), 10.37A, 9.51V, 37300RPM, 3s2P 1200mA ETec 1stg gen

cdr 20mm, 8T 0,6mm Wye, 12 4x5x1 magnets 6poles (NNSSNNSS...).

I'm one of the people who use cdrom and EDF in nano thread :)

trade GWS EDF40 for microfan to improve thrust, in fact, thrust improve but not enough :(

Jorge

PS already have the plans, thanks!

[jmralves]

Will install the lip tomorrow, if I don't get 250g, I quit! start a new hobby!

just joking:)


Eric did you measure RPM in your microfan with you r setup?

Jorge

[Mr. Boogie]

I've Hosted Mr. Boogies F-35 Plans (http://www.parkfly.rchomepage.com/MBF35.pdf) for your downloading and building enjoyment

Thanks for the help in getting the plans up RC!

Mr. B

[Mr. Boogie]

AirX,

Thanks for jumping in with the intake lip info. Looking forward to your micro F18E. Better start doing my eye excercises :D. These small planes sure are fun to track in the sky.

When you get around to the F35, I'd love to see your progress ;) .

Mr. B

[Mr. Boogie]

Hi again,


I'm one of the people who use cdrom and EDF in nano thread :)

trade GWS EDF40 for microfan to improve thrust, in fact, thrust improve but not enough :(

Jorge

PS already have the plans, thanks!

Sorry,

I need to pay a little more attention when reading. Please let us know the results of your intake lip installation.

Boogie

[Mr. Boogie]

For those unfamiliar with working with thin depron.

All of my bends were created by first placing a strip of packing tape on the outside of the bend. If you do not do this the depron will crack/tear.
Then the bend line was scored with a metal edged ruler. Slowly work the bend along the length of the fold lines. While the tape is still on I like to exercise the bend by flexing it a few times.

All rolled pieces had packing tape on the outside curvature (similar to above), prior to rolling over the edge of my stair rails ;) . No heat forming is necessary at this thickness (3mm).

Tape can be (carefully) peeled off after the bends/rolls are made.

Mr. B

[AirX]

Will install the lip tomorrow, if I don't get 250g, I quit! start a new hobby!

just joking:)


Eric did you measure RPM in your microfan with you r setup?

Jorge

I can figure the rpm off of voltage and KV but I dont have any way to measure rpms ATM(at the moment). Looking at the figures from the last test on the stand it was holding 10.9volts if it ws 82% efficient then the rpm's would be 46000 or so.

Eric B.

[AirX]

AirX,

Thanks for jumping in with the intake lip info. Looking forward to your micro F18E. Better start doing my eye excercises :D. These small planes sure are fun to track in the sky.

When you get around to the F35, I'd love to see your progress ;) .

Mr. B

When I get to builidng it I will post it. I hear you on the small fast planes that are hard to see and keep track of, I had a pylon racer last year and for me that was definitely a challenge, it flew arround 60 with a speed 400 in it with only 28in wingspan and fuselage length. Keep the ideas flowing Mr.B because we are getting into a new realm with Thomas Nelson leading the way... :)

Eric B.

[Mr. Boogie]

I'm looking for a color scheme, it does not need to be scale but I don't want it to be cartoonish. Initially I'm thinking something along the lines of the paint schemes for the early F16/F18's (red and white, I believe).

Does anyone know of any good color scheme references that I can tap into?

Thanks,
Mr. Boogie

[Kevin Cox]

The F-35, in time, could be the replacement for the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels, so..... :D

I'm thinking of repainting mine :)

[jmralves]

Hi Folks,

good and Bad news,

I install a depron lip in the microfan, Run 1 test, and guess what:

at 273g the lip was partially sucked in :eek:


So, the installation of the lip yields an increase in static thrust from 169g to 270g (wich can be improved with a tougher lip).

Now I'll try two things, a new cdr motor (8mags and AaABbBCcC) #turns in doubt yet and a new lip build with a mix of depron and balsa)

Jorge

[jmralves]

Mr. B.

Try this one http://www.airliners.net/

Jorge

[Mr. Boogie]

The F-35, in time, could be the replacement for the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels, so..... :D

I'm thinking of repainting mine :)

Hey Kevin,

Just got my latest issue of RCM! Your F35 looks good in print ;) .

16 oz AUW for your bird, is your power system putting out more than that? I've got a TP2100 and thought it might be to big.

Boogie

[Mr. Boogie]

Hi Folks,

good and Bad news,

I install a depron lip in the microfan, Run 1 test, and guess what:

at 273g the lip was partially sucked in :eek:


So, the installation of the lip yields an increase in static thrust from 169g to 270g (wich can be improved with a tougher lip).

Now I'll try two things, a new cdr motor (8mags and AaABbBCcC) #turns in doubt yet and a new lip build with a mix of depron and balsa)

Jorge


Jorge,

Your numbers sound much nicer. You can also try coating your intake lip with WBPU or a thin coat of epoxy. You might also want to tack glue it with CA (foam safe) to the microfan shroud. Then let her rip.

Thanks for the link!

Boogie

[jmralves]

you welcome!

Mr. B what's WBPU?

Jorge

[Mr. Boogie]

Jorge,

WBPU is water based polyurethane. It's typically used to seal wood floors/furniture. You can dilute 50/50 with water to a milk like consistency and paint on, let dry and sand to a smooth finish.

Lots of info about it's usage in the foamies forum.

Mr. B

[jmralves]

Ok, thanks Mr. B

Jorge

[Kevin Cox]

Hey Kevin,

Just got my latest issue of RCM! Your F35 looks good in print ;) .

16 oz AUW for your bird, is your power system putting out more than that? I've got a TP2100 and thought it might be to big.

Boogie

Cool Boogie I will have to look for it. Thanks

My model is setup for max velocity which is why handlaunching is out. I don't recall what the thrust is but it is low, maybe 10oz at best.

[jmralves]

2nd Lip with 20mm cdr 6 poles 3s2p Etec 1200 1st gen

Results:

12,3A :eek: 9,7V

Jorge

[Mr. Boogie]

Too windy/cold to fly.
Soooo....here are a few previsualization attempts at color schemes.

Some should be very weight friendly. In the case of full body paint jobs, I hope I can keep weight gain under an ounce.

Mr. B

[Kevin Cox]

Nice.
I found this one.

IDF

[Thomas Nelson]

I'd think the Thunderbirds scheme could be made to work very nicely. Minimal paint for a mostly white airframe, and yet excellent differentiation between the top and bottom.

Then again, I'm a little partial toward the TBird scheme. I like the idea that you're willing to try paint jobs that 'could have been', or 'may yet be'. Hopefully more ideas pour in from the fertile minds here in ezoneland.

[AirX]

I like that thunderbirds scheme too... :)

Eric B.

[cyberfly]

Very nice project, I love all stuff here

;)

[Mr. Boogie]

Thanks for the paint scheme input guys! More eyes do sometimes help one see better.

I decided to give the Thunderbird scheme a shot. It's hard to argue with a minimal weight penalty and since I'm not yet ready to upgrade the motor, it seems to be a logical choice.

My AUW has taken a .3oz hit (10.8oz) and I have not completed painting of the canopy,vert stabs and tailerons. I guess I'll be going all white depron on the next build.

Anyway, I've included some shots of the work in progress with my interpretation of the ThunderBirds paint scheme. I'm going to pick up some white paint tomorrow and see where I net out weight wise. Thrust to Weight is currently 9.5:10.8 (.88).

Mr. Boogie

[Thomas Nelson]

Ahh now that's purdy, Mr B!

Any reason why you don't simply replace the tailfeathers with depron?

[Mr. Boogie]

Thanks!


Any reason why you don't simply replace the tailfeathers with depron?

Laziness Tom, I take my time off very seriously :) .

My birds eventually get dismantled by natural selection :rolleyes: .
Plus there are a few things I would like to fix and try differently on the next build including the front nose section (should be fatter) and some ducting tweaks.

I also butchered the bottom Tbird application trying to get around the curves, shouldn't notice it in flight though.

B

[AirX]

Looks fine to me Mr. B.

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Mr. Boogie]

Looks fine to me Mr. B.

Cheers,

Eric B.


Thanks AirX,

What's the word on your F18E? Have you got the first prototype built yet?

B

[AirX]

Design is complete, just need to seperate the parts for the finished drawing. Christmas got in the way... :)

Tonight I will finish the drawing and get back with you... :)

I have not finished the first prototype yet, as I need some 3mm thick depron. I need to make an order for the magical foam... :) With this plane I am hoping to get near 1-1 thrust /weight. as for it flying it should perfrom with jet like performance.

Eric B.

[larry baraniuk]

I finally got my himax 2025-5300 mounted on my wemotec microfan and got my static thrust to go up to 11.0 ounces but now I'm drawing 20 amps out of my 3 cell Kokam 2100mah 20c battery pack @ 10.55 volts and intake at 141% FSA and exhaust at 100% FSA .With my himax 2025-4300 motor , I was getting 9.5 ounces of thrust with
a current of 11.2 amps @ 11.3 volts.According to the specs from edf info.com I should be putting out 15 ounces of thrust with this much power going to the 5300 kv motor.I have a feeling that my shaft watts are lower than I expected and right now I'm trying to figure out a way to measure my RPMs by measuring the phase to phase frequency going to the motor.

[AirX]

Sounds like the fan is starving for air causing the motor to draw more amps as it tries to move the air thru, how is the intake configured? Is there an area ruled duct leading into the fan or is there a plenum with the fan intake drawing from that area?
The figures Greg has in his website are from the fan on a test stand with an intake lip similar to Mr. Boogies molded intake lip which makes the intake of the fan more efficient than one would think due to the ability of the air to adhere to the curve and draw from all angles.

The figure you give for the 4200 is the same figures I get from my 2015-5300 with a minimal lip. When the airflows more easily then the amps will drop down somewhat and is indicative of either problems ahead or behind the fan. It is much easier to get things wrong on the intake side than it is in the outlet side.

Eric B.

[jmralves]

Eric,

How do we know the right shape of the lip?

That kinf of info is available online?

What's best, a round lip as the WMT minifan (Mr. B style) or a clark Y LE style?

TIA

Jorge

[jmralves]

Another thing Eric:

My microfan without lip manage a static thrust of 169g@9,5V, 10,4A and with lip 277g@9.7V, 12,3A

Why the increase in current?? shouldn't the fan "breathe" better with the lip :confused:

TIA

Jorge

[AirX]

The best for a plenum arrangement is like Mr. Boogies, best for an open podded arrangement is like an eliptical lip similar to the clark-y entry. I learned a lot about this from testing and articles from Kress in the 80's, I also learned a lot about entry shape and twist of the airfoil from high performance windsurfing sailmaking in the 90's when I ran my own sailoft in Corpus Christi, Texas. I did a lot of airfoil testing back then and had lots of fun in the process.

Eric B.

[jmralves]

Thanks Eric

Jorge

[AirX]

Air has mass(weight) and will act like anything that is accelerated in a straight line, it will want to continue in that straight line. Without the lip there is a thin rounded edge about 1mm thick the oncoming airflow will tend to cleave the lip of the fan so the fan only sees the air it has that directly covers the intake area of the shroud, there is a greater effort to suck in more air mass, so the fan itself is less efficent and sraws more amps to reach the rpms the voltage wants to spin the motor to. A lip of at least 1/4" [6mm] thick and well rounded will allow the air to curve arround it and flow into the mouth of the fan shroud therefore more air volume inhaled with little effort expended, intake efficiency will rise because less power is needed to move the a greater available air mass, less amp draw means more voltage to spin the motor to and more airflow(efficiency). Mr Boogies molded lip just feeds more air to the fan and makes it easier for the rotor and motor to do its job, when using a well rounded lip like that in a podded arrangement there will be a point where there is spillage of air out of the intake causing drag so there is the only downside to the large lip and even that is difficult to measure.

Eric B.

[jmralves]

Clear as water Eric, Thanks again!

I have a clark Y style in my fan, so if I understand correctly your post, If I change the lip to a round lip, probably the ampere draw will decrease a bit.

I'll try it tomorrow, along with the modifications in the motor (one at a time)

Thanks again!

Jorge

[AirX]

Or move more air... :)

Win Win either way.

Good luck, I am nearing a point where I will build my F-18 with the microfan then I will start one of Mr. Boogies F-35s

Eric B.

[jmralves]

which F18, the nano or else?

Jorge

PS Sorry Mr Boogie, for this OT posts

[AirX]

Same basic airframe just made the aft fuselage deeper to house the fan and lip. Yep sorry Mr. B. for off topic posts.

I gather from a few posts back you are going to makse some changes on v2 of the F-35, can you recap those ideas for us.

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Mr. Boogie]

Same basic airframe just made the aft fuselage deeper to house the fan and lip. Yep sorry Mr. B. for off topic posts.

I gather from a few posts back you are going to makse some changes on v2 of the F-35, can you recap those ideas for us.

Cheers,

Eric B.

Guys,
I'm not worried about the off topic posts, they are related to microfan efficiency IMO and this is a topic that interests me.

Tom Nelson and I are collaborating to try some ducting experiments to see if we can improve the thrust and fan efficiency. I would also like to make a few aesthetic tweaks to the airframe.

Will update as we progress (good or bad).

Mr. Boogie

[AirX]

Mr. Boogie,

Sounds like a plan, you did very well on your first EDF and with Thomas pitching in this will be another lightweight and powerful model. If there is anything I can contribute I will.

Cheers,

Eric B.