fuel vs elec

[yusufnar]

i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?

[Steve R.]

Well, let's see........here's a short list of pros and cons as I see em!

Electrics:
1. Their quiet! (pro)
2. Their clean! (pro)
3. The mechanics are generally built light so they won't take a crash as
well. (Con)
It takes time to recharge batteries so unless you buy extra battery packs
(extra expense), you'll have more down time between flights. (Con)
4. The electric helicopters I've seen that I would recommend as a trainer
are not any cheaper than their glo powered brethren. In fact, many of them
cost significantly more. The really small, inexpensive models like the
Aerohawk and similar models "do not" fall into the category of what I'd
consider a proper model to learn with. (I won't call this a pro or con,
just a statement of my opinion)

Fuel:
1. More noise (this is a con when compared to electrics but not really a
problem)
2. Dirtier (glo powered models coat themselves with oil and pick up a dust
and dirt while hovering around - Con)
3. Many relatively inexpensive models to choose from that fly very well.
Ex: Raptor 30, Kyosho Caliper 30, Hirobo Shuttle series (Pro) By the way,
there are several others on the market, these three are just what came to
mind.
4. The models mentioned in #3 are common and parts are relatively easy to
find. This will depend on where you are and what's common in your area so
this one isn't a pro or con. It's always a good idea for beginners to look
around their local area and see what everyone else is flying. They can
often give you a good idea of what's available and what's not in your area.
Also, if you're going to be relying on these folks for help, it doesn't hurt
if you're flying what they're flying.
5. You can just refuel and go fly again. No waiting for batteries to
recharge. (Pro)

This is just a short list of things that come to mind. I'm sure others can
give you a more comprehensive list. The main thing I think you need to do
is simply a little research. Find anyone local you can and see what their
flying. Keep in mind that "local," in this case, might be a two to three
hour drive. In some parts of the world, we heli pilots are spread out
pretty thin but it will almost always be worth it in the long run.

Good luck & Fly Safe,
Steve R.


"yusufnar" <yusufnar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:986da3a8.0411230607.52f4f053@posting.google.c om...
>i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
> advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?

[Glen Peden]

In article <986da3a8.0411230607.52f4f053@posting.google.com>,
yusufnar@gmail.com (yusufnar) wrote:

> i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
> advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?

Hi,

Disclaimer - I'm an electric guy, through and through:):)

With 3 NiMH packs each delivering 6 minutes of high performance flight
(heli could be setup for more duration at the expense of performance
though), I can fly my LOGO 10 for 18 minutes per hour on a continuous
basis. I get to do this because I use a good charger that will charge
the pack in 21 minutes. Working full time, it spits out 3 charged packs
per hour, and I rarely need to bring out the second charger. While that
may not seem like much, I can tell you from experience that I tend to
fly more than other glow pilots, what with all the talking and motor
tinkering that goes on;) My normal routine for an afternoon of flying is
to bring out 2 heli's, each with 3 packs pre-charged to 75% capacity to
make the first 6 flights happen pretty quickly. Then, if I ever bother
to get two chargers going and alternate between the two heli's, there's
no way I can keep up to the pace. IOW, for me, flight time for electrics
is a non-issue. My "constant flying" has been mentioned in the odd
funfly write-up, back when I was that keen. Of course if one uses the
new LiPO batteries (I don't recommend these for beginners though), one
can get a half hour flight per charge if one chooses not to use one of
the recent "insane power setups" that they can give. SO, if one had two
LiPo packs, each capable of giving a half hour flight, one could show up
to the field with them pre-charged (they hold their charge for weeks)
and not need to bring along a charger and charging battery. But if one
did anyway, and was topping up the batteries while one rested, one would
get much more than an hour's flying per session. But! An hour is a lot
of time! I don't use LiPo's myself, because of their high cost,
fragility, and extraordinary care required to keep from burning down the
apartment:)

Both power systems have their merits, but the one thing that makes me a
crack a smug smile is watching a beginner hovering his heli upwind from
where he is standing. This is typically done, and guess where the cloud
of smoke goes? Hour after hour?:)

--
Cheers!

Glen
logoheli.com

[dingo]

Im new in heli and flying a linvingroom bird (ikarus)
if you never had any RC experiance with fuel i would not recomend it.
Once you have a heli ,all you want to do is fly the bird. And you proably
dont want to adjust the clutch, the carb, discover your first worn out
glowplug, figger out wether to use 5,7,9,10,11 or 15 % nitro .
turn left , or was it right on the low-end screw, or was it the high and
again......

i'm about 15yrs in electro RC (racing ) and i tell you the only reason wy
electrics dont overtake nitro's is because we are stuck with 7,2v packs.
And if you have a heli you can just add up to 10 or 12 cells.
so go for clean&quit E-power.
If you stay of brushless systems you can save serious money, brushed esc &
moters are much less expensif .



TM



"yusufnar" <yusufnar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:986da3a8.0411230607.52f4f053@posting.google.c om...
> i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
> advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?

[Nigel Heather]

You are quite right that with the right equipment you can get good flying
times out of electric. Your post illustrated an important point though.
Most new to electric look at is as a cheap option - often the kits come with
a battery and charger after all. But as you pointed out what you really
need is 3 good packs and a decent charger and these alone cost more than an
IC engine and a load of fuel. At some point you will start looking at
cobolt or brushless motors which is another chunk of money.

So electric is indeed a viable option, but newbies shouldn't be fooled into
thinking it is a cheap one.

Cheers,

Nigel


"Glen Peden" <glen2@logoheli.com> wrote in message
news:glen2-C074B3.11375123112004@news.telus.net...
> In article <986da3a8.0411230607.52f4f053@posting.google.com>,
> yusufnar@gmail.com (yusufnar) wrote:
>
> > i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
> > advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?
>
> Hi,
>
> Disclaimer - I'm an electric guy, through and through:):)
>
> With 3 NiMH packs each delivering 6 minutes of high performance flight
> (heli could be setup for more duration at the expense of performance
> though), I can fly my LOGO 10 for 18 minutes per hour on a continuous
> basis. I get to do this because I use a good charger that will charge
> the pack in 21 minutes. Working full time, it spits out 3 charged packs
> per hour, and I rarely need to bring out the second charger. While that
> may not seem like much, I can tell you from experience that I tend to
> fly more than other glow pilots, what with all the talking and motor
> tinkering that goes on;) My normal routine for an afternoon of flying is
> to bring out 2 heli's, each with 3 packs pre-charged to 75% capacity to
> make the first 6 flights happen pretty quickly. Then, if I ever bother
> to get two chargers going and alternate between the two heli's, there's
> no way I can keep up to the pace. IOW, for me, flight time for electrics
> is a non-issue. My "constant flying" has been mentioned in the odd
> funfly write-up, back when I was that keen. Of course if one uses the
> new LiPO batteries (I don't recommend these for beginners though), one
> can get a half hour flight per charge if one chooses not to use one of
> the recent "insane power setups" that they can give. SO, if one had two
> LiPo packs, each capable of giving a half hour flight, one could show up
> to the field with them pre-charged (they hold their charge for weeks)
> and not need to bring along a charger and charging battery. But if one
> did anyway, and was topping up the batteries while one rested, one would
> get much more than an hour's flying per session. But! An hour is a lot
> of time! I don't use LiPo's myself, because of their high cost,
> fragility, and extraordinary care required to keep from burning down the
> apartment:)
>
> Both power systems have their merits, but the one thing that makes me a
> crack a smug smile is watching a beginner hovering his heli upwind from
> where he is standing. This is typically done, and guess where the cloud
> of smoke goes? Hour after hour?:)
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Glen
> logoheli.com

[Glen Peden]

Hi Nigel,

Yes, And I certainly wasn't talking about micro heli's, which are the
only ones that come with a charger. Having suffered the expense of
buying 3 sets of batteries, one does get to fly for free after that, so
when comparing costs one must also tally up the cost of all those
gallons of fuel! How much for say, 25 hours of flying in a season?

Cheers!

Glen

In article <-oadncV1O8li8DncRVn-3w@nildram.net>,
"Nigel Heather" <nigel@NOSPAM.the-heathers.nildram.co.uk> wrote:

> You are quite right that with the right equipment you can get good flying
> times out of electric. Your post illustrated an important point though.
> Most new to electric look at is as a cheap option - often the kits come with
> a battery and charger after all. But as you pointed out what you really
> need is 3 good packs and a decent charger and these alone cost more than an
> IC engine and a load of fuel. At some point you will start looking at
> cobolt or brushless motors which is another chunk of money.
>
> So electric is indeed a viable option, but newbies shouldn't be fooled into
> thinking it is a cheap one.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nigel
>
>
> "Glen Peden" <glen2@logoheli.com> wrote in message
> news:glen2-C074B3.11375123112004@news.telus.net...
> > In article <986da3a8.0411230607.52f4f053@posting.google.com>,
> > yusufnar@gmail.com (yusufnar) wrote:
> >
> > > i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
> > > advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Disclaimer - I'm an electric guy, through and through:):)
> >
> > With 3 NiMH packs each delivering 6 minutes of high performance flight
> > (heli could be setup for more duration at the expense of performance
> > though), I can fly my LOGO 10 for 18 minutes per hour on a continuous
> > basis. I get to do this because I use a good charger that will charge
> > the pack in 21 minutes. Working full time, it spits out 3 charged packs
> > per hour, and I rarely need to bring out the second charger. While that
> > may not seem like much, I can tell you from experience that I tend to
> > fly more than other glow pilots, what with all the talking and motor
> > tinkering that goes on;) My normal routine for an afternoon of flying is
> > to bring out 2 heli's, each with 3 packs pre-charged to 75% capacity to
> > make the first 6 flights happen pretty quickly. Then, if I ever bother
> > to get two chargers going and alternate between the two heli's, there's
> > no way I can keep up to the pace. IOW, for me, flight time for electrics
> > is a non-issue. My "constant flying" has been mentioned in the odd
> > funfly write-up, back when I was that keen. Of course if one uses the
> > new LiPO batteries (I don't recommend these for beginners though), one
> > can get a half hour flight per charge if one chooses not to use one of
> > the recent "insane power setups" that they can give. SO, if one had two
> > LiPo packs, each capable of giving a half hour flight, one could show up
> > to the field with them pre-charged (they hold their charge for weeks)
> > and not need to bring along a charger and charging battery. But if one
> > did anyway, and was topping up the batteries while one rested, one would
> > get much more than an hour's flying per session. But! An hour is a lot
> > of time! I don't use LiPo's myself, because of their high cost,
> > fragility, and extraordinary care required to keep from burning down the
> > apartment:)
> >
> > Both power systems have their merits, but the one thing that makes me a
> > crack a smug smile is watching a beginner hovering his heli upwind from
> > where he is standing. This is typically done, and guess where the cloud
> > of smoke goes? Hour after hour?:)
> >
> > --
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Glen
> > logoheli.com

--
Cheers!

Glen
logoheli.com

[Phil Noel]

Hi Glen,

How many recharges do you get on a pack (e.g the ones used on a Logo 20)
before it loses its practical usefullness? How much do they cost per set and
how much for the charger that you use to keep yourself going all day? And
how long would each flight be on a set of these packs?

I would just like to put the costs into perspectus.

Phil

"Glen Peden" <glen2@logoheli.com> wrote in message
news:glen2-B3E1B8.07103224112004@news.telus.net...
> Hi Nigel,
>
> Yes, And I certainly wasn't talking about micro heli's, which are the
> only ones that come with a charger. Having suffered the expense of
> buying 3 sets of batteries, one does get to fly for free after that, so
> when comparing costs one must also tally up the cost of all those
> gallons of fuel! How much for say, 25 hours of flying in a season?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Glen
>
> In article <-oadncV1O8li8DncRVn-3w@nildram.net>,
> "Nigel Heather" <nigel@NOSPAM.the-heathers.nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> You are quite right that with the right equipment you can get good flying
>> times out of electric. Your post illustrated an important point though.
>> Most new to electric look at is as a cheap option - often the kits come
>> with
>> a battery and charger after all. But as you pointed out what you really
>> need is 3 good packs and a decent charger and these alone cost more than
>> an
>> IC engine and a load of fuel. At some point you will start looking at
>> cobolt or brushless motors which is another chunk of money.
>>
>> So electric is indeed a viable option, but newbies shouldn't be fooled
>> into
>> thinking it is a cheap one.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>> "Glen Peden" <glen2@logoheli.com> wrote in message
>> news:glen2-C074B3.11375123112004@news.telus.net...
>> > In article <986da3a8.0411230607.52f4f053@posting.google.com>,
>> > yusufnar@gmail.com (yusufnar) wrote:
>> >
>> > > i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
>> > > advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Disclaimer - I'm an electric guy, through and through:):)
>> >
>> > With 3 NiMH packs each delivering 6 minutes of high performance flight
>> > (heli could be setup for more duration at the expense of performance
>> > though), I can fly my LOGO 10 for 18 minutes per hour on a continuous
>> > basis. I get to do this because I use a good charger that will charge
>> > the pack in 21 minutes. Working full time, it spits out 3 charged packs
>> > per hour, and I rarely need to bring out the second charger. While that
>> > may not seem like much, I can tell you from experience that I tend to
>> > fly more than other glow pilots, what with all the talking and motor
>> > tinkering that goes on;) My normal routine for an afternoon of flying
>> > is
>> > to bring out 2 heli's, each with 3 packs pre-charged to 75% capacity to
>> > make the first 6 flights happen pretty quickly. Then, if I ever bother
>> > to get two chargers going and alternate between the two heli's, there's
>> > no way I can keep up to the pace. IOW, for me, flight time for
>> > electrics
>> > is a non-issue. My "constant flying" has been mentioned in the odd
>> > funfly write-up, back when I was that keen. Of course if one uses the
>> > new LiPO batteries (I don't recommend these for beginners though), one
>> > can get a half hour flight per charge if one chooses not to use one of
>> > the recent "insane power setups" that they can give. SO, if one had two
>> > LiPo packs, each capable of giving a half hour flight, one could show
>> > up
>> > to the field with them pre-charged (they hold their charge for weeks)
>> > and not need to bring along a charger and charging battery. But if one
>> > did anyway, and was topping up the batteries while one rested, one
>> > would
>> > get much more than an hour's flying per session. But! An hour is a lot
>> > of time! I don't use LiPo's myself, because of their high cost,
>> > fragility, and extraordinary care required to keep from burning down
>> > the
>> > apartment:)
>> >
>> > Both power systems have their merits, but the one thing that makes me a
>> > crack a smug smile is watching a beginner hovering his heli upwind from
>> > where he is standing. This is typically done, and guess where the cloud
>> > of smoke goes? Hour after hour?:)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> > Glen
>> > logoheli.com
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Glen
> logoheli.com

[Glen Peden]

Hi Phil,

"They" say 25-50 charges at the best performance and 100 to 200 charges
at decent performance. The only righteous flight logging I did was in my
first year, where I got 221 flights out of two packs before the heli was
done in by the telebee gyro in the cold (I think). The packs were
retired for the next season because I switched from 20 to 24 cells - not
because they weren't still useful. Even still, at $6/cell (back then)
times 40 cells averaged over 221 flights, they cost US$1.08/6 minute
flight. One can, however, generally count on getting more than 110
flights per pack IF ONE STARTS OUT WITH GOOD PACKS TO BEGIN WITH. Back
then I was not satisfied unless I got 8 -10 flights in a session. The
gasoline to drive for 1-3/4 hours round trip to Canmore costs me US$11
per session:) The Orbit Microlader Pro charger, which I've used for
planes and heli's the past 4 years, cost me only US$200 in a good deal,
but it's probably something like $275 now and still had some resale
value:):) Nowadays, my batteries of choice, the Sanyo 2600 mah MIMH cost
US$4.25 (zapped). You forgot to ask about the cost of my charging
batteries:) I have two Optima batteries (one is a replacement for the
other under warrantee for poor performance), and a Sears DieHard RV Deep
cycle battery.

The setup on my LOGO 20 was always a bit "hot" and I seem to like
wasting amps. These days I fly a Bionic which gets about 7 minutes of
aerobatic flight on 26 cells and a slightly larger Pletti 300/30/A3H
motor. This seems to have hit a sweet spot with sufficient power to do
seemingly continuous stationary rolls and flips, yet better endurance.
Those 26 dell packs cost me US110 each and the 3 packs will last me well
into next season.

With the LOGO 10, a popular heli, my 13 cell packs cost me US$55 each
and I can fly all season on 3 of them. And unless they get wrecked
beyond "rebuildability" in a crash or if I abuse them by re-peaking, I
tend to fly them over the course of two seasons......

I am not trying to say that electrics are cheaper, just that they are
not that bad (if they aren't cheaper). Soon enough I will be giving
LiPo's a try on my LOGO 10 and from what I can tell, become drunk with
the elixir of stupendous power and more endurance and I just won't care
what the cost is and will overlook that fact that I won't be flying much
more in a day than with round cells:):)

ps - I don't pay for electricity in my apartment. I build my own packs.
Winter flying is a breeze and the spent packs make great hand warmers:)
Oh, what's your cost for paper towels in a season?;)


In article <10qap3umiun2d14@corp.supernews.com>,
"Phil Noel" <pnoel@dccnet.com> wrote:

> Hi Glen,
>
> How many recharges do you get on a pack (e.g the ones used on a Logo 20)
> before it loses its practical usefullness? How much do they cost per set and
> how much for the charger that you use to keep yourself going all day? And
> how long would each flight be on a set of these packs?
>
> I would just like to put the costs into perspectus.
>
> Phil
>
> "Glen Peden" <glen2@logoheli.com> wrote in message
> news:glen2-B3E1B8.07103224112004@news.telus.net...
> > Hi Nigel,
> >
> > Yes, And I certainly wasn't talking about micro heli's, which are the
> > only ones that come with a charger. Having suffered the expense of
> > buying 3 sets of batteries, one does get to fly for free after that, so
> > when comparing costs one must also tally up the cost of all those
> > gallons of fuel! How much for say, 25 hours of flying in a season?
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > In article <-oadncV1O8li8DncRVn-3w@nildram.net>,
> > "Nigel Heather" <nigel@NOSPAM.the-heathers.nildram.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> You are quite right that with the right equipment you can get good flying
> >> times out of electric. Your post illustrated an important point though.
> >> Most new to electric look at is as a cheap option - often the kits come
> >> with
> >> a battery and charger after all. But as you pointed out what you really
> >> need is 3 good packs and a decent charger and these alone cost more than
> >> an
> >> IC engine and a load of fuel. At some point you will start looking at
> >> cobolt or brushless motors which is another chunk of money.
> >>
> >> So electric is indeed a viable option, but newbies shouldn't be fooled
> >> into
> >> thinking it is a cheap one.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Nigel
> >>
> >>
> >> "Glen Peden" <glen2@logoheli.com> wrote in message
> >> news:glen2-C074B3.11375123112004@news.telus.net...
> >> > In article <986da3a8.0411230607.52f4f053@posting.google.com>,
> >> > yusufnar@gmail.com (yusufnar) wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > i am a newbie in rc helis. i want to buy a new one. which one one
> >> > > advantegeous? with fuels or with elect?
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Disclaimer - I'm an electric guy, through and through:):)
> >> >
> >> > With 3 NiMH packs each delivering 6 minutes of high performance flight
> >> > (heli could be setup for more duration at the expense of performance
> >> > though), I can fly my LOGO 10 for 18 minutes per hour on a continuous
> >> > basis. I get to do this because I use a good charger that will charge
> >> > the pack in 21 minutes. Working full time, it spits out 3 charged packs
> >> > per hour, and I rarely need to bring out the second charger. While that
> >> > may not seem like much, I can tell you from experience that I tend to
> >> > fly more than other glow pilots, what with all the talking and motor
> >> > tinkering that goes on;) My normal routine for an afternoon of flying
> >> > is
> >> > to bring out 2 heli's, each with 3 packs pre-charged to 75% capacity to
> >> > make the first 6 flights happen pretty quickly. Then, if I ever bother
> >> > to get two chargers going and alternate between the two heli's, there's
> >> > no way I can keep up to the pace. IOW, for me, flight time for
> >> > electrics
> >> > is a non-issue. My "constant flying" has been mentioned in the odd
> >> > funfly write-up, back when I was that keen. Of course if one uses the
> >> > new LiPO batteries (I don't recommend these for beginners though), one
> >> > can get a half hour flight per charge if one chooses not to use one of
> >> > the recent "insane power setups" that they can give. SO, if one had two
> >> > LiPo packs, each capable of giving a half hour flight, one could show
> >> > up
> >> > to the field with them pre-charged (they hold their charge for weeks)
> >> > and not need to bring along a charger and charging battery. But if one
> >> > did anyway, and was topping up the batteries while one rested, one
> >> > would
> >> > get much more than an hour's flying per session. But! An hour is a lot
> >> > of time! I don't use LiPo's myself, because of their high cost,
> >> > fragility, and extraordinary care required to keep from burning down
> >> > the
> >> > apartment:)
> >> >
> >> > Both power systems have their merits, but the one thing that makes me a
> >> > crack a smug smile is watching a beginner hovering his heli upwind from
> >> > where he is standing. This is typically done, and guess where the cloud
> >> > of smoke goes? Hour after hour?:)
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Cheers!
> >> >
> >> > Glen
> >> > logoheli.com
> >
> > --
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Glen
> > logoheli.com

--
Cheers!

Glen
logoheli.com

[yusufnar]

very very very thanx for helps.