Cheap PCB houses for thin FR-4?

[jeffs555]

I have used a few of the cheap prototype houses to do PCB's in the past. All the ones I have used only do 0.062 boards at the cheap prices. Does anyone know of a place that will do 0.031 or thinner at cheap prices? From google, the only one I have found is pad2pad.com, but they require you to use their free layout software which I don't want to do.

[tve]

Hi Jeff,

If you find a board house that does cheap .031 please post it here. I would like this also.

Thanks,
tve

[Comatose]

I've had good success with custompcb. They'll also do .020 if you're getting pcbs in quantity.

They take protel or eagle files natively, or gerber and drill. Not the fastest, but the price is right and the quality is okay. Not great, but okay.

www.custompcb.com

[jeffs555]

I hadn't seen that one before. Their prices look really low, and their pricing page appears to say that they will do .031 or .020 even on the low quantity protos for $8 extra per order. The only problem I see right off, is their minimum 12mil trace spacing is awfully wide. I could live with 8mil traces, but 12mil spacing makes it hard to layout a compact board. At work, I have been laying out for 7 and 7 and even that is far from state of the art.

[Comatose]

Jeff,

Their soldermasks are often a little bit misaligned as well. Nothing serious, maybe a mil or two at worst. For double-sided boards, the top/bottom alignment is also occasionally suspect, to the tune of a mil or two. The spacing hasn't bothered me as much as the large minimum drill size. That all being said, they have some very good points as well. They're convenient if you aren't in a hurry, they're quite cheap, they offer 2oz and heavier copper. For things like power supply designs where one isn't really working with anything smaller than 0805s and TSSOP, and where large traces are a requirement anyway, they work well.

Also the board come silver plated instead of solder plated. If you're using then soon the silver works as well as anyone could hope. it doesn't age as gracefully as a solder plate, however, so you really need to use the boards within three or four months.

They can do tighter than 12mil spacing, IIRC, but you'd have to ask. It would probably cost a little bit more. Or, you could just send them a board and take your chances. You could almost certainly get away with 8/10

[MX]

I had a lot of quality problems with stuff from custompcb. Traces that were occasionally wider than they should be, touching the trace next to it, pieces of traces missing, vias that don't plate all the way through, etc. The first bad order, they claimed that they'd had a power failure and it messed things up. Assured me that things were fine now. The next order was just as bad.

MX

[jeffs555]

Does anyone have any experience with Olimex in Bulgaria. They have very low prices, and say they will do 0.8mm(31mil) boards for a $5 adder. By my calculations, .031 is about 1 gram per sq inch lighter than the standard .062. Olimex takes Gerbers, and claims to do free panelization and depanelization onto a euro format(6.3" x 3.9") panel. Their standard price for double sided with solder mask and silkscreen is $26. Seems to low to be true.

To report on a bad experience with another vendor, I downloaded the software from pad2pad.com, and entered my design. The software was easy to use, and gave a fair price, so I placed an order. I got an email back saying they could not do the board for the price their software had quoted, because it was panelized, and width and spacing was less than 10mil, and had holes that were less than 24mil. None of this was mentioned on their site or in their software. They offered to do the board for about twice what their software had quoted. Needless to say I canceled the order.

If no one reports any bad experience with Olimex, I will probably place an order with them.

Jeff



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[Malc C]

I'm also thinking of using them. I have one of their P0-2C Pic programmers and if the boards they offer are anything like the ones they use on their own products then I don't think you will be dissapointed. They also responded quickly to my e-mails which is a good sign. I asked why they don't take Paypal, and they replied that it was something to do with Paypal not accepting accounts from Bulgeria :( - shame really

[Mikael Pedersen]

I have used Olimex several times, and for the price I am very pleased.
Just remember that they ARE prototype boards, and problems could occur. I have had one board with a broken coppertrack, and another with two solderpads shorted together, but the remaining 14 PCB's I've got from Olimex are perfect.
Their minimum via size is relatively large, and the 10 mil track/clearance limit isn't impressive compared to others, but it is enough for my hobbyprojects.

Here is an example of what their boards look like:
http://www.ejberg.dk/servotst2/hardware/pcb2.jpg

[TMorita]

Some people I know use http://www.expresspcb.com.

Never used them myself, though.


Toshi

[jeffs555]

I have used exprespcb once, but for their cheap protos, they don't offer .031 laminate, have no soldermask, and you have to have to use their layout software. I was happy with the boards, but decided to use someone else for production boards.

As I reported above, I recently tried to order from pad2pad, who also have their own layout software. To their credit, they did finally offer to do the boards this one time, for the low price their software had quoted, but I think I will order from olimex. I don't think I will use anyone again who won't work from gerbers. Olimex will do 8mil trace and spacing, but it takes 15 business days instead of the normal 5. With shipping time, I probably won't receive the boards til next year. Olimex's minimum .024 drill size does make for large vias, but I was able to fit everything OK, and I don't think their prices can be beat.

Jeff

[jeffs555]

Just to report on my good experience with Olimex. Their web site said it would take 15 business days to manufacture the boards with 8 mil tracks and spacing, but I received the boards in just under three weeks. The quality is nothing to bragg about, but is quite acceptable. I emailed them two different gerbers, told them how to array the boards on their standard 6.3"x3.9" panel, and I received 30 boards already cut out. I wasn't expecting the boards this quickly, so I haven't ordered parts yet, but visually they look ok. The price breakdown was $26 for manufacturing, $5 for .031mil laminate, $1.05 for nonstandard drill size(.024mil), $2.60 for over 500 holes, and $8 for shipping. This is much less than half of what I found from any US company. I am quite pleased.

Jeff

[Richard Cox]

I use Alberta Printed Circuits in Canada. 2 day turn. If you want .031
you have to buy a full panel or wait a few days to share a panel with another
customer. Never had to wait more than 3-4 days.
They take standard gerber files and credit cards.
find them at apcircuits.com

[jeffs555]

Richard,
I had looked at APCircuits, and had heard good things about them from other people. The main reason that I didn't use them is that their quick turn protos did not include solder mask.

Jeff

[Richard Cox]

I understand, but I have purchased dozens of boards from them without
soldermask. For hand assembly, soldermask doesn't do much. It is primarily
for wave soldering. Silkscreen is also not supplied.
I've used them for years, and their service is outstanding. I send them a
file on Monday, and boards are delivered on Thursday. Average charge for
small boards is $75.00. Hint: Use only the "free" drills if possible, otherwise
there is an extra charge per hole size. Also, they are sheared to about
.020" oversize, so you may want to sand the rough edges.
I frequently put multiple images into one gerber file. This way you save
the $46.00 setup charge per board. Only downside is that you have to
saw apart the individual boards. Put them close together to save money,
as the square inch charge applies to waste as well.

[Malc C]

Just thought I would add a follow up post to this thread.

I placed a repeat order on March 2nd for some more interface boards. As they already have the artwork etc the production time should be reduced, well the boards were despatched 10th March via standard Airmail from Bulgaria, which was actually a longer period of time than the first batch. Well the finally arrived yesterday (31st March), taking three weeks to get from Bulgaria to the UK. The boards are neat (in fact they are better than the original first batch) but if you want your boards in a hurray then you might want to look at an alternative company or pay the more than the cost of the pannel for FedEX !

[william541]

If you can use .062 for your prototypes, pcbexpress has done a great job for us with excellent quality and very fast turn arounds. They also do multi-layer protos at a reasonable price. the boards are router cut. They take multiple board formats, but we always use the extended Gerber format. Read all their guides first as to the hole sizes etc. I think they offer 18 and 20 mil as the smallest up to 190 mils at the large end. They can do 7mil tracks with 7mil spacing even on the less expensive boards.

http://www.pcbexpress.com/

Thanks for the tips on the other board houses that do .031"

-Bill-