cheap thermal plane with ailerons??

[mybitplanebitme]

Is there a good thermal plane (preferably with ailerons) for less than $300 after apropriate radio gear?... Did I mention it has to be an ARF or something someone with ten thumbs can build in less than a week?

thanks for your help,
The Ari from the O.C.

[solo6796]

The Elegant is a full house ARF at about $250.....Before radio gear. It flys very well. Once you get into wing servos and a good receiver, you are going to have more like $500 in it.

AJ

[mybitplanebitme]

thanks,
that looks like a realy nice plane, almost exactly what i want but I can't realy go any higher than $300... I was thinking maybe I could find something similar to that used, any Ideas?

[FlyingPig]

How about Spirit Elite ? Might be a little heavy for Thermal Sailplane but it's a good fullhouse 2M trainer. ARF is $119 @ Tower Hobbies.

[AustinTatious]

As I have said befor, A GREAT value is the Art Hobby Thermik. It is 175.00 for the "kit" which consist of VERY beautiful parts. It will thermal with anything and if built right will take a winch launch just fine. It is a 100 inch plane and for its light weight, it is very fast ( racing airfoil!) I miss mine. It can be built with flaps ( for an amazing spot lander) or without. I suspect you could get one going for about 300.00 if you have a Rx and battery and pass on the flaps.

The "Build" consist mostly of joining wing pannels and installing radio gear. VERY good Value!

[aeajr]

OK, let's see what we can do for you.

Budget entry - RES 2M sailplane - Totally ready to fly including radio
fully installed. - $149
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVK55**&P=7
Add one servo for the Spoilers - $10

Total for RES sailplane $159 ;)

The Spirit Select was my first Sailplane. Thermals very nicely in light lift, or you can add ballast and fly it in 15 mph winds. I have 6 other sailplanes including 2 3m and 1 2M full house, but the Spirit comes to the field every time.

Full house 2M

Spirit Elite ARF - $119
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAVR0&P=7

Futaba 6EXA Computer radio with 4 servos - $179
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCZR6**&P=ML

2 Additional HS-81 (for ailerons) $36
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXN675&P=ML

You have a full house sailplane with 6 servos and a computer radio.

Total for Full House Sailplane - $334. :D


Add a hi-start to either package and you are complete - $60
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE636&P=7


Electric Sailplane Option

Or how about an RTF R/E electric sailplane completely built with radio installed and RTF -
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVJ51**&P=7
Spectra Select - $199 (no need for a hi-start)

Add Battery Charger - $39
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXARP1&P=7
Second Battery - $22
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXBNC4&P=V

RTF Electric Sailplane with radio, 2 batteries and charger - $260



How am I doing?

[Solcat]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2563&item=5930962286&rd=1

[mybitplanebitme]

thanks everyone,
those look close to what i need, i would be a little nervous about the spirit elite as the reason I need a new plane is that my rtf spirit is out of comission because of a bent wing joiner (no it wasn't subjected to any particularly high stress just a standard 2m high start ;) ) so keep the suggestions coming!!

solcat,
thanks for the link but I'm realy only interested in pure sailplanes.

thanks,
the Ari from the O.C.

[mybitplanebitme]

btw does anyone have an opinion about the nano floh http://nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1202 from north east sailplanes

[Masterpiece]

I second AustinTatious reply. I'm a "thermic"-holic. Great build and very very good build quality from Arthobby. I've bought more planes from Andre since then due to the great customer service and the best "cost to quality" ratio I've seen in a while.

[FlyingPig]

thanks everyone,
those look close to what i need, i would be a little nervous about the spirit elite as the reason I need a new plane is that my rtf spirit is out of comission because of a bent wing joiner (no it wasn't subjected to any particularly high stress just a standard 2m high start ;) ) so keep the suggestions coming!!

solcat,
thanks for the link but I'm realy only interested in pure sailplanes.

thanks,
the Ari from the O.C.

The elite wing joiner is 7mm metal rod so it shouldn't be that weak like the one for the Spirit. (I've read a review that it's on the "heavy" side instead).

Also I totally agree with AustinTatious about the Thermic. I have the BoboLink from ArtHobby and the quality is great !! But you'll need to sand wing root to create the right angle to join, cut your own ailerons & flaps, and sand & finish the wing skin. So it'll be a bit more work than "ARF" compare with the elite. But if you don't mind for that, the Thermic will be much better choice.

I think Nano floh is too small for Thermal. You'll probably lose your vision when it goes up > 800 ft. Also the wing loading seems to be a bit heavy considering the size. It'll be a great sloper though. :)

[aeajr]

thanks everyone,
those look close to what i need, i would be a little nervous about the spirit elite as the reason I need a new plane is that my rtf spirit is out of comission because of a bent wing joiner (no it wasn't subjected to any particularly high stress just a standard 2m high start ;) ) so keep the suggestions coming!!

solcat,
thanks for the link but I'm realy only interested in pure sailplanes.

thanks,
the Ari from the O.C.

Easy fix

Why not just fix the Spirit wing joiner or make a new one? Easy to do. If you can't fix the current one. use it to copy onto some plywood and make it out of that.

When you join the wing on the Spirit 2M, use clear packing tape to join the wings. You will never have a joiner problem again. Almost as strong as epoxying them together. I crashed my spirit, broke both wings, joiner was fine and the packing tape did not come apart. I had a later crash and had to replace the fuselage. Joiner went unharmed.

I use a hi-start with 1/2" rubber to launch my Spirit at 14 pounds pull. No problem. I also winch it, carefully. (broke a wing once going a bit too hard)

After I got the Spirit and had my first serious crash, I picked up a Spirit kit and have used it for spare parts to fix things as I broke them. It would include a new joiner, fyi. Many hobby stores carry the kit.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ596&P=7

Elite is a completely different plane.
Fiberglass fuselage, flat wing, heavier so it can fly in more wind and penetrate better. Here is more info on the plane.
http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1047.html
Review of the Elite
http://www.greatplanes.com/reviews/gpma1047-rcm.html
You can download the manual to see what it takes to put it together.

For marketing purposes, I think they just created a line based on the Spirit name since the original plane has been so popular.

The Spirit 100 is a larger plane and is is only available as a kit, but if you want to move up in size, that would be an option. Build it RES or full house.
http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma0550.html

[Jose E Bruzual]

mybitplanebitme,

solo6796 gave you a good choice of plane for under $300, for performance the Elegant is a solid thermaling ship. With 107" wing span and projected weight it should give you very solid performance under almost kind of condition.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/elegant.htm

Jose

[mybitplanebitme]

hmmm, i think i might go for the spirit elite as i thoroughly enjoyed flying my spirit rtf and with the exception of the wing joiner the plane seemed fairly high quality

aeajr,
I actually tryed building a new wing joiner with some harder wood but im not very good at building things unless there from foam and even then im still not that great at it, and on top of that im realy ready to move on to something much more advanced

jeb,
as i said to solcat I'm realy only interested in pure, non powered, sailplanes. the reason for this is that I started with electrics and they all seemed to like being on the ground better than being in the air (i couldn't get a single one, not one, out of at least ten, to fly) thanks anway.

thanks everyone for the help,
the Ari from the O.C.

[mybitplanebitme]

i just read the reveiw and the build makes me nervous. btw does someone have a link for the thermic

[averen]

The Spirit Elite is a great plane and an exceptional value! It is a little heavy for a 2 meter, but it's wing form needs a higher wing losding to fly well.

I have specked my SE out MANY times. It's a GREAT thermal plane and you're not going to find anything better for the $120 price. The wing rod is very strong. I launch mine hard on the winch and have never had a failure on the wing or wing rod. We have 3 of them in our club now. I've only seen 1 wing failure, and that was on a 20mph wind day with a new winch operator. You don't have to gently tap it up the line like most other woodies. But you can't stand on the winch the entire time.

Anyways, just my $.02 on the Spirit Elite. I've been flying mine for 2 years now and the "heavy" weight of the plane doesn't seem to be an issue ;)

Jared

[aeajr]

jeb,
as i said to solcat I'm realy only interested in pure, non powered, sailplanes. the reason for this is that I started with electrics and they all seemed to like being on the ground better than being in the air (i couldn't get a single one, not one, out of at least ten, to fly) thanks anway.

the Ari from the O.C.

Wow! That is pretty disappointing. I started in electrics. I have 4 flyable right now and 3 more waiting to be set-up. They all fly pretty well, within their designed flight envelope.

Maybe someone could give you a hand there.

Don't get me wrong. I like my electrics, but I LOVE my sailplanes.

[mybitplanebitme]

my mistake i've had 2 electrics that flew one was a zagi 400x that i never put the motor on and flew as a slope GLIDER :) and the other was a 40 dollar wattage Micro Flyer which fryed in the rain (oops :( )... so I think I'll stick with gliders, although I may have to replace the micro flyer (that was a fun plane)

the Ari from The O.C.

[FlyingPig]

J.K Thermic Building Thread.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139683

Search for "Thermic" in thread name under this Thermal forums and you'll find a lot !!

[aeajr]

my mistake i've had 2 electrics that flew one was a zagi 400x that i never put the motor on and flew as a slope GLIDER :) and the other was a 40 dollar wattage Micro Flyer which fryed in the rain (oops :( )... so I think I'll stick with gliders, although I may have to replace the micro flyer (that was a fun plane)

the Ari from The O.C.

If you need some suggestions on parkflyers, let me know. They are lots of fun! But I still love my TD and Slope Gliders better. There is something so satifying about true silent flight where you find your energy in the air, not in a bottle or from an electric motor.

Clear Skies and Safe Flying.

[mybitplanebitme]

thanks aeajr,

I might just have to take you up on that offer because i have many unused parkflyer parts that i would like to be able to use. but i absolutely agree with you that there is something realy great about relying on something you cant see or hear for power. so what can i build to fly in a small area without lipos if i already have 2 hs-55 a feather reciever and a 5 amp esc?

the Ari from the O.C.

[paramtn]

Arthobby is www.arthobby.com They build awsome planes. I think best bang for the buck. Very light and proffesionally built.

[aeajr]

thanks aeajr,

I might just have to take you up on that offer because I have many unused parkflyer parts that I would like to be able to use. but I absolutely agree with you that there is something really great about relying on something you cant see or hear for power. so what can I build to fly in a small area without lipos if I already have 2 hs-55 a feather receiver and a 5 amp esc?

the Ari from the O.C.

Here are some planes for your consideration. Let me know if you tried one of these. After you read the whole post, if I did not peg your issue with learning to fly the plane, let me know what the problem was.

Since you specifically mention build, I presume you are not interested in RTF planes but are talking about ARFs and kits. Let me list a few that I often recommend based on personal observation or strong positive recommendations from others. I believe these can be flown with 2 HS-55s and a 5 amp speed control.

Slow stick
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=GWS1040
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122951

Tiger Moth
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=GWS1020
Review
http://www.backyardflyer.com/BY/articles/tiger_moth.asp

Tipsey
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Review
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pdf/gr6232.pdf
http://rcgroups.com/links/index.php?sid=498277416&t=article&cat=198&id=3871

Easy Star - ARF ( 5 amp speed control may not be enough)
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Discussion Thread on Easy Star
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258656


Balsa Wood Kits - Check the recommendations for the speed control, but I think 5 amp should work for these. The reputation that Mountain Models has developed for easy to build kits that are excellent flyers is quite amazing. Since they are small planes, even if you have limited space and time, take a look at them.

Dust Stick
http://www.mountainmodels.com/duskstik.php

Magpie - Easy to build Foam kit
http://www.mountainmodels.com/magpie.php
Video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/Magpie.wmv

SmoothE - Easy to build Balsa and foam
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
Funny video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/SmoothEsmall.WMV


Keys to Succes and Failure

Consider this, everyone does better with help. Whether a formal instructor program on a buddy box, or a knowledgeable friend, everyone does better with help. If you must learn on your own, let me share these observations.

After two years of working with new flyers at our club, and coaching flyers on the forums, there are a few things I have seen as the key challenges for new pilots. Some get it right away and some have to work at it.

1) The single biggest cause of failures and crashes has been the insistence upon flying in too much wind. Regardless of the model, I recommend dead calm to 3 MPH for the slow stick and tiger moth type planes. Under 5 MPH for the rest. That includes gusts. If you are flying in 2 MPH with gusts to 7, you are begging for disaster.

I am working with a fellow right now. The wind was around 8 mph steady with gusts to 12. That was strong enough that some of the experienced pilots flying three and four channel planes chose not to launch their electrics. This new flyer insisted that he wanted to try his two and three channel parkflyers. Crash, Crash, Crash - Three planes in pieces. He just would not listen. Sometimes you just have to let them crash. There is no other way to get them to understand.

2) The issue about flying toward yourself. Keeping orientation is a real challenge, even for experienced pilots. You just have to work at it and some adults have a real problem with left and right regardless of which way the plane is going.

Two ways to approach this challenge.

Use a flight simulator on your PC. Pick a slow flying model and fly it a lot. Forget the jets and fast planes. Pick a slow one. Focus on left and right coming at you. FMS is free and if you get it with the right cable, you can plug into the trainer port on your radio and use that to fly the planes.

An alternative is to try a small cheap RC car. You don't have to worry about lift, stall and wind. Get something with left and right steering and speed control. Set up an easy course that goes toward and away from you with lots of turns. Do it very slowly at first until you can make the turns easily. Then build speed over time. You'll get it! If it has sticks rather than a steering wheel even better, but not required. Oh, and little cars are fun too.

3) Too much speed and not enough altitude! Speed it the enemy of the new pilot. It eats up our flying space and takes away the time to think and respond. All of the planes provided above can be flown fast enough with many able to handle 7-10 mph winds IN THE HANDS OF AN EXPERIENCED PILOT.

New flyers are afraid of altitude. They feel safer close to the ground. Nothing could be more wrong. Altitude is your friend.

The models above can be flown slowly. Most small electrics fly very nicely at 1/2 throttle. That is a much better training speed than full power. Launch and climb to a good height, say 200 feet, so you have time to recover from a mistake. At 200 feet, go to half throttle. Slow and easy turns, work on left and right, flying toward you and maintaining altitude.

4) Don't hold your turns for more than a second or two until you see and understand that if you hold a turn too long you will spiral in and crash. I just watch these guys hold the turn, hold the turn, hold the turn, crash. Of course they are flying in 10 mph wind, coming toward themselves at full throttle.

Here ends the sermon. I hope some of this is useful in learning to fly your electric planes.

[gdjsky01]

[QUOTE=aeajr]
Consider this, everyone does better with help. Whether a formal instructor program on a buddy box, or a knowledgeable friend, everyone does better with help. If you must learn on your own, let me share these observations.

QUOTE]
There are are plenty of folks early on weekend mornings at Fairview Park in Costa Mesa who help or check out your plane. Ask for John Vallentini. The park can not be more than a 20 minute drive from anywhere in Newport Beach, if that.









Jeff also in the O.C. but happily not N.B.! :D
Fox viewers need to get a life... N.B. just ain't that much fun! Now Laguna Beach! THERES a fun place. :D Last I knew, fun was illegal in N.B.

:D

[mybitplanebitme]

aeajr,
thanks for all the pointers and airplane suggestions I'll have to find something along those lines after i get my glider taken care of.

gdjsky01,
that's where i was learning to fly my glider, i had only soloed my plane about 25 times before the wing joiner bent but, i was already looking for an aileron trainer or at least some thing with better thermal capabilities, so as new as i am i dont feel i'm jumping the gun in moving to a more advanced model. BTW funs not illegal, you just have to work harder to find it. :)

the Ari from the O.C.
P.S. CDM high school is way older and more beat up than the school on the show