Polecataero Thermal Dancer on the way...

[torcgolf]

can anyone share anything about the plane? flight characteristics? build process? any mods i should know about? i'm still weeks away from getting it but i'd like to prepare (actually more like anxious :o ).

anyone got pics or know of any build threads online?

[Ric Duley]

....lucky dog....

I'm green with envy. :D

[Gliderguy]

Mine should be here any moment. :D

This thing is pretty new. I ordered it a day or so after it was put up on Denny's site. I'm sure Phil Barns (and Denny) are working thier fingers to the bone. ;)

[torcgolf]

yeah, thats what i figured. i spoke to denny on the phone (really cool guy) and he said they got bombarded with orders. i just missed out on a run that came in this week (prolly shipping next week), so im in the next batch.

let us know as soon as you get it! how about a build thread?!?!?! :D

hey ric! how are you!

[torcgolf]

did anyone spot one of these at visalia?

[Ric Duley]

Troy,
More importantly, why didn't either of us go? :confused: Next year, for sure.

Seriously, keep me posted when you're going to fly yours - I want to see this plane........

[torcgolf]

absolutely ric! i think im still quite a ways off but (like 3 weeks) i'll definately let you know. btw, are you still flyin slope? i'm trying to get more and more into thermal flying myself. got my first taste of histart launching a couple weeks ago and i like it a lot.

next year for sure! i had a wedding to go to but i was thinking about it all weekend :(

[Ric Duley]

I've always flown both slope & thermal, with more emphasis on thermal.
E-powered stuff, too. ;)

Next year for sure....

[ksykes]

I'm on the wait list for a Thermal Dancer as well.. Anxious to see what comes with it and how to put it together.. Has anyone seen any instructions posted anywhere?

[Gliderguy]

The nice Fedex people brought my new ThermalDancer today. :D All I can say so far is Wow what a nice kit. I did a complete weigh out except for the wing rod (which was somehow left out of the kit).

Kit weight (minus wing rod) 40.68oz.
Wing halves are within 2 grams of each other. :) Wing tops prepainted white w/red tips and natural lower. Fuse is primed & ready for that special paint job (lightly applied ;) ).

I'll try to get pics up soon.

[torcgolf]

woo hoo! congrats!

one question, when you say the bottoms are natural, are they black carbon? natural kevlar? both?

please do post pics!

[Gliderguy]

Both.

It's full kevlar overlaid with carbon about 80% back from the leading edge.

[Gliderguy]

Ok. Here's a couple pics.

Hey where's my plane. ;) Nice packing.

[Gliderguy]

Oh, here it is. :p :rolleyes:

Everythings Ok. :D

[Gliderguy]

Let's peek at the wings. :D :D
Bottoms first.

[Gliderguy]

Here's the tops. :D

[Gliderguy]

I'll start building later I'm exhasted just looking at it. :D
Denny just called and will send out my missing wing rod Monday (someone must have an extra rod :o ) .

[Ric Duley]

Gliderguy,
I can feel your excitement all the way down here. That is too cool... :cool:

You guys are gonna end up costing me money....I better stay away from this thread. :p

[torcgolf]

you are the man!!!! that thing looks very nice. thanks for sharing the pics. looking forward to your build thread (hint hint ;) )

[briandlg]

That really is a good looking airplane. The price is reasonable as well. Good going Denny and Phil!

[pteromorph]

I cannot provide a lot if input on the build except for the current setup:

Center of Gravity 4-4 1/8” from LE
Towhook 3 7/8” from LE
Elevator down – as much as possible without touching boom
Up – same as down
Aileron 20 deg up, 15 down
Flap 10 deg up, down to taste
Launch Flap and Aileron 10 – 15 deg down
Camber same as launch for crawl, 3-5 deg for thermal
Crow Flaps down to taste (50-80 deg)
Ailerons 15 deg up, reverse differential, if possible
Elevator 40% of travel down (personal preference)
Speed Aileron and Flap 2 deg up
Aileron Differential 30-35%
Aileron – Rudder 50% coupling on switch
Flap – Aileron Flaps follow Aileron 50%
Elevator – TE ¼” TE down with full up Elevator on switch

FWIW, the distance of the rudder hinge line from the 'tip' of the boom is 27 7/8".
Equipment in the fuse is installed (front to back):
lead/battery(2100 mAh, 4 cell), servo tray (removable) with servos and switch, rx (tucked in just aft of the hatch), antenna inside the boom held in place by a string of fiberglass CA'd to the antenna and opening of the boom under the rudder

Love the plane A LOT and cannot wait for the electrified fuse!

[ksykes]

What came with it in the way of hardware? I want to have all the bits lined up when mine arrives. :).

[Gliderguy]

It comes with etched teflon control rod tube and carbon control rod, carbon control horns, tow hook assembly, servo tray and rails, stab V-mount (looks like a Bud Elder :D ), 1/2" wing rod and of course wings, stab, fin, fuse & boom. ;)

All you'll have to furnish is servos, Rx & Rx pack & clevise & rods for flaps & ailerons.

[dennymaize]

Yup, the V mount looks like a Bud mount but, actually we make them in house. Was neccessary due to the larger diameter of the portion of the boom used. Standard BD mount wouldn't work

[Gliderguy]

Gooooood job. :D

[torcgolf]

how's the build comin? :D

[dennymaize]

gliderguy

Wing rod is on the way via priority mail. You should see it in a couple of days.

If any one got 2 of them, I could use it back:-)

[Gliderguy]

Thanks man! You're a peach. :D


It got busy at work, so I'll be a few days to get caught up before I start to build. :( But I'll keep you informed. I do look at it a lot and fondle it at times. :D :D

[ksykes]

Any new pics?

[torcgolf]

hey glider... how's it comin? i still havent gotten mine and im dying to learn more about the plane.

anyone else got one?!?!?!

[Gliderguy]

I'm just about able to see daylight at work here (and "honeydo" list :rolleyes: ).

I want this one to turn out nice. There looks to be a few places that you might need to be careful. I don't want to be going "Doh" at all. You know the progression: :eek: :( :mad: :o :confused: :rolleyes:


Soon, very soon.

I'd like to see this thing built too. :D

[old dodger]

WELL GLIDERGUY,
Your excitement got me pumped up also. so ive ordered the T.D. also. If Deny dosnt get burnt out from the enthusiastic demand for hot planes I should have one by Christmas. (I feel like a kid on Christmas eve). Ill be watching your progress
also. (no presure haha). ;)
Chris Brundege

[dennymaize]

Hey Dudes

Wassup?? Somebody should be flying by now.

[pocket rocket]

Hey Denny,

I've got a contest next Saturday

will mine arrive in time ????????

Philip

[torcgolf]

anyone know of any updated threads on the TD? hey denny, how many of these do you know exist?

[dennymaize]

Dudes

6 of these buggers will ship in the morning including Philips. Wish we could make them faster but it ain't so. I'm doin the best I can.

[Hanagar]

I'm looking forward to receiving mine - I saw that my credit card got billed early last week, so it should be here anytime.

Now to figure out just how in the heck to build something like this (I've never done it before). :)

[old dodger]

Hay Gliderguy,

Are member of the Salem club or Portland Area Sailplane Society (PASS) ?. Mayby we will be flying together this next year!.

Im in PASS.

Chris Brundege

[pocket rocket]

I wonder how much next day delivery would have cost ?????

sent today - gets to me Thursday - 2 evenings to build it ?????? - contest on Sat

maybe

Philip

[old dodger]

Hello , Hello,

Are you flying yet?
(still Christmas eve here-- Long long night)


Chris B

[Hanagar]

No, I guess I jumped the gun. I'm still waiting for shipment, perhaps early next week now.

I received a small USPS box from Polecat Aero which contains, simply - a wire. Now I'm intrigued to understand exactly what this wire is for. :)

[torcgolf]

i got that same box. maybe denny forgot to include the pushrods? according to fedex, my TD will be here monday :D

now all i need to do is finally decide what radio gear to put into it. :rolleyes:

[Hanagar]

Maybe Monday for me too - we're both on the "left coast", as my father calls it. :)

I went out and bought 4 HS125's, 2 HS85MG's, and have a receiver lying around that I'll use. I ended up getting a 2700mah battery (!!) - I hope it'll fit inside the nose, and not be too nose heavy.

[torcgolf]

hey hanager... have you ever used the hs125's? i was gonna go with them on the flaps only since i heard mg's in general eventually get sloppy over time.

wut's your take?

[Hanagar]

I have not ever used them, no. It'll be interesting to see how they work out. I just remember Denny saying that the wing was fairly thin, and that 125's (or equivalent) may be about all that fits in them.

Maybe it'd be worth moving up to the Digital 125-equivalents (not sure which those are).

[dennymaize]

C'mon guys. I couldn't have possibly forgotten to put push rods in a whole batch of ThermalDancers and had to send them all out the next day at extra expense. How dumb do you guys think I am:-)))

Just had to share this. It is a direct quote from a TD owner that got his in the air today for the first time. I won't mention names or anything else but here's part of what he told me.

"a fellow club member, received his Thermal Dancer yesterday. After watching mine for a while he left early to go home and begin work on his.
I am beyond extremely pleased with this model. "

[pocket rocket]

I got my box too, and wondered how Denny could get a 3m plane into a box the size of a video tape mailer !!!!!

then I opened the box, what a teaser Denny is, probably get the nosecone next !!

waiting for Monday too.

Philip

[Hanagar]

I think that perhaps Denny has been exceptionally bored, and wants to ship all of his TD's piece by piece. Yeah, that's it! :)

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

Hey Denny,
How about posting more pics of the Thermal Dancer, up close details please. I am considering the TD for next season but would like more details.
Thanks Charlie

[dennymaize]

Dudes

Wish I could but alas, young Gerald got mine! I'm pretty sure he won't give it back:-))

I will look and see what I may have pics of as I did take some while building that one. What specifically are you interested in?

[dennymaize]

BTW guys

You dudes that got the little boxs, thats all you get. Didn't you ever see the Jetsons? George had his whole space ship in his breif case. Obviously you guys didn't open the box correctly or something because the whole plane was in there:-)

[torcgolf]

hey denny... post as many pics as you can! i too am interested in seeing more pics. of course, my TD is scheduled to be here tomorrow according to FEDEX so i might be able to post some later tomorrow evening.

i'd still like to check out some of your pics.

[torcgolf]

can someone tell me the servo bay dimensions in the wing? i'd like to get the L/W/D. gonna pick up radio gear and i wanna know what servos to get in the wings.

[Phil Barnes]

can someone tell me the servo bay dimensions in the wing? i'd like to get the L/W/D. gonna pick up radio gear and i wanna know what servos to get in the wings.
1 1/2" X 1 1/8" X 1/2". Fits a DS368 perfectly which is what I would use for all four.

[torcgolf]

got my TD today!!!! im very impressed! i love the new color of the tips.... ORANGE!!!!

i'll post some pics very soon. digi cam's chargin...

hats off to you denny and phil (and everyone else involved). :D :D :D :D :D

[pocket rocket]

got the real box today and the kit weight comes in at just over 43 oz on my kitchen scales, 12 oz or so of radio and battery, couple of oz for glue and we might be under 60 oz when finished.

wing rod and 2 servos are in, more tomorrow.

thanks Denny,

Philip

[Hanagar]

Me too - I took it with me to the club meeting tonight. Almost everyone was looking at it in awe. :)

I have orange tips too - it helps me decide which color to paint the pod!

Denny or Phil, can one of you tell me - what kind of paint did you use, and what is the 'official' color name? I'd like to make sure I match up the color when I paint the pod. :)

Thanks!

[dennymaize]

Phil will have to jump in here but it likely is krylon. I'm guessin both girls now have orange bikes, eh Phil??

[Phil Barnes]

Krylon #2410 "Popsicle (safety) orange".

[torcgolf]

here's some pics of my TD... cant wait to get it started!

[Hanagar]

Pictures! That's what I need to remember to do - I only had my Compulsion for ~3 months before it flew away, and I never got any pictures of it.

Thanks for the reminder, torcgolf!

[pteromorph]

...some pics

[pocket rocket]

hey Denny

a couple of questions:-

1 - is a good starting point for the CG the 3.1/2-4.1/4" that the instructions give for tow hook location ??????

2 - I want to run the boom under the rudder and need to slice a bit off the rudder so there is some clearance. darn Kevlar is bulletproof !!! how do I cut the fluffy bits so it's nice and clean ?????? sandpaper ?????

Philip

[BrianSmith]

I love the fact that the ailerons are clear to the wing tip..Good thinking/planning on that...Brian

[Hanagar]

I also have some questions.

This looks like a great kit. My father-in-law and I are complete newbie builders, however, and would appreciate more thorough instructions.

For anyone who is building this, could you please take pictures as you do and post them here? It would sure help us figure out what we need to do at each step.

He's nervous about starting step #1 (Fabricate wiring harness) even though it has little to do with the plane itself. Some of the scarier steps include drilling the wing rod holes and installing the tail (I don't get that section at all).

Thanks in advance to everyone who can help out!

[Hanagar]

Oooh - that's right, another question!

The holes for the servos in the wing are not large enough for Hitec HS-125's. What is the best way to enlarge the holes while causing minimal damage to the rest of the structure?

[torcgolf]

hey huge favor guys... can someone weigh their horiz stab for me? i ended up painting mine and forgot to weigh it before i sprayed it. just curious how much weight i added.

also, mr. barnes... how did you prep the wings to paint? seems like the stab took a lot or at least more than i expected (seemed to absorb the paint). the bag is extremely porous so if anyone decides to do this, make sure you get foam safe paint!

[pocket rocket]

hello torcgolf

on the kitchen scale my stab weighed 1 oz

Philip

[emersunn]

Philip,
Congratulations, I like this better than an Icon. Are you going to have it ready for Saturday?

Is there a carbon wingrod option?

[torcgolf]

thanks philip for weighing it for me. darn, looks like i added .2 oz to my horiz stab.
:rolleyes:

doesnt sound like much but waaaay out at the end of the boom will make a diff. :(

[Phil Barnes]

darn Kevlar is bulletproof !!! how do I cut the fluffy bits so it's nice and clean ?????? sandpaper ?????
There are a number of ways to deal with Kevlar cutting. You should have some Kevlar scissors in your shop. In fact you may want to convert all of the scissors in your shop to Kevlar scissors. Any good quality pair of stainless steel scissors can be easily converted into Kevlar cutting scissors and they will still work for any other cutting as well. To convert your scissors you just need to square off and rough up the cutting blades. I do this by drawing each blade across the face of a spinning bench top disk sander. I hold the scissors such that the face of the blade is about perpendicular to the sanding disk and then draw the scissors blade across the sanding disk.
The idea is to change the angle of the cutting blade and to roughen up the edge of the blade such that the Kevlar doesn't slip between the blades. People have also done this procedure with such things as files.

Kevlar scissors can be used for cutting Kevlar fabric and also can be used for cutting Kevlar fuzz from finished parts. Especially usefull for trimming Kevlar fuzz from finished parts are small scissors with curved blades. These small scissors are sometimes sold as plastic car body scissors (Tower Hobbies). or sold for trimming fabric close to mold flanges (CST or ACP). They have blades that are only about 1 1/2" long. These small curved scissors can be made into Kevlar scissors also.

It sounds like you have already cut your rudder and are left with some messy Kevlar Fuzz. The scissors mentioned above can help with that Fuzz. In general, to avoid the Kevlar Fuzz mess in the first place, You should always try to cut Kevlar skinned parts with a knife. The cheap snap off knife blades work really well for this. To trim the rudder, I would have used a straight edge and the snap off knife to cut the Kevlar skin on each side and then used a razor blade to to slice the foam. The key with Kevlar skins is always to make one clean cut of the Kevlar skin the first time with a knife. You can't cut close and then sand to the final line later as you can with carbon and fiberglass skins.

Sandpaper can sometimes be used to remove Kevlar Fuzz. This can be done if the Fuzz is overhanging the edge of something substantial such as a plywood root rib. In this case 220 grit works best. You just need to draw the Fuzz over the edge of the ply rib and then run the paper along the edge to cut the Kevlar. This procedure also sometimes works with fuselages that are either all Kevlar are contain Kevlar. If you make a cutout in the fuse and are left with Kevlar fuzz on the edges of the cutout you can sand it off with 220 grit paper.

Having said all of the above, I would be tempted to build the Thermal dancer or similar models with the rudder hingeline even with the end of the tailboom. I might then add a balsa block to the bottom of the rudder and sand it to match the rudder and round the underside of the balsa block. The balsa could be finished by wrapping some fiberglass around it and up a small distance onto the rudder.

[Phil Barnes]

Oooh - that's right, another question!

The holes for the servos in the wing are not large enough for Hitec HS-125's. What is the best way to enlarge the holes while causing minimal damage to the rest of the structure?
I'm not sure how large HS-125s are. It's no problem extending the servo holes farther out along the span of the wing, that will have no effect on the strebgth of the wing. You should avoid extending the servo holes much farther chordwise as that cuts more and more carbon fibers from the bottom skin.

All you need for cutting the servo holes is a snap-off knife. These are the inexpensive small knives that have blades with ten separate knife points on each blade that you snap off when they get dull. Just use one of these knives with astraight edge to cut the skin. Then use a new X-acto blade to cut the foam. You will also want to square out the corners of the servo hole with your X-acto knife.

[Phil Barnes]

hey huge favor guys... can someone weigh their horiz stab for me?
also, mr. barnes... how did you prep the wings to paint? seems like the stab took a lot or at least more than i expected (seemed to absorb the paint). the bag is extremely porous so if anyone decides to do this, make sure you get foam safe paint![/QUOTE]

[Phil Barnes]

hey huge favor guys... can someone weigh their horiz stab for me?
They should average about 32g each
also, mr. barnes... how did you prep the wings to paint?
The wings are already painted when they come out of the vac bag. This is done by painting the mylars. The paint then transfers to the wing when the mylar is pulled off. I've never painted a wing or tail after it was bagged. You are very correct to point out that the tail skins are very porous and if you do try painting them , you must use foam safe paint.

[pocket rocket]

thanks for the Kevlar info Phil, have to get with that stuff tonight when I reinforce the fin/boom joint.

Denny what's the thread size on that little nylon bolt that holds the stab, have to buy some more, or I'll have to take the whole fuselage into the store ?????

If you enlarge the servo openings don't cut toward the leading edge or you'll kiss goodbye to the wing spar. Sideways and back to the trailing edge is OK.

going to get this thing flying on Saturday or else.

Philip

[pocket rocket]

I also have some questions.


He's nervous about starting step #1 (Fabricate wiring harness) even though it has little to do with the plane itself. Some of the scarier steps include drilling the wing rod holes and installing the tail (I don't get that section at all).

Thanks in advance to everyone who can help out!

Hello Hanagar

wiring harness is easy, but suggest you fit the wing rod to the fuselage first then you won't have the wires hanging out of the wing and getting in the way when you check fit of wing to fuselage.

quick and dirty wiring harness is like I've done. A 36" servo extension goes from aileron servo to outside of the wing root, flap servo wiring will probably pass through wing root without needing an extension ( that was a good idea Denny or Phil).

cut hole in wing root on fuselage and pass wires from receiver thru.

slide the wing on the rod and connect the plugs to join servo wires coming out of wing with wires from Rx. then hide the mess of wires in the fuselage.

the good guys will have a nice 4 pin plug embedded in the wing root and just slide the wing on to make a connection, but that's too fancy and I'm going flying with this thing on Saturday.

Philip

[pocket rocket]

when it comes to wing rods then I wish all wings were in 3 sections. All you do is bolt the centre section down to top of the fuselage and you're done.

so here's how I did the T-Dancer

use the template Denny provided to mark the centre of the wing rod on the fuselage wing root fairing.

drill a small hole, (you'll be drilling thru ply reinforcement too). enlarge the hole with bigger drill bits always checking that the hole is centred vertically on the wing root fairing on the fuselage. if it isn't centred then move the hole with a dremel bit till it is.

I drilled up to 7/16" and it was centred so went to 1/2" bit. it was still a little small for the wing rod so I reamed it out with a dremel and a router bit. do this until rod is a sliding fit.

then do the other side, checking that the 2 holes are aligned across the fuselage. then try and slide wing rod thru both holes. then realise why 3-piece wings are so nice !!!!!!!!

now install the wings on the wing rod, rotate the wing rod until the dihedra bend is in the correct place and if you've been good the wing roots will line up against the fuselage.

if not you might have to move the holes till they do line up.

of course you still have to add the alignment pins (maybe tonight) and line up the angle of attack of both wings !!!!

make cutouts in fuselage for wiring connections too.

Philip

[markdrela]

2 - I want to run the boom under the rudder and need to slice a bit off the rudder so there is some clearance.

Are you planning to move the whole tail unit forward on the boom? BAD IDEA.
You don't want to use a shorter tail arm on this glider.

[pocket rocket]

hello Mark

no, no, I've got the fin/rudder where Denny says to put it, 28" from end of boom to rudder hinge line.

I guess we get a long tail boom or did Denny make a mistake ...........No, never !!

Philip

[torcgolf]

hey i think i got a set of bum wings! i just finished the cutout for the wing rod (i used the supplied template and it's perfect). the problem is no matter how much i adjust the rod, the wings dont line up. here's what it looks like... at worse, it's about 1/4" off!!!

can someone tell me what went wrong?

[pocket rocket]

is the wingrod at 90 degrees to the wing root fairing on both sides of the fuselage ??

what is not lining up ??????

is the fuselage the same width across the front and the back of the wing root fairing??

mine didn't look perfect but with a bit of fiddling it's better. I wonder if the wing rod needs a bit more dihedral bend so the wings butt perfectly against the fuselage.

Philip

[torcgolf]

i think the rod is bent wrong. cause for some reason, it doesnt look right even looking at it!

[Hanagar]

Philip,
Thank you for the suggestions and pictures -please keep the pictures coming of any 'interesting' step, as we can certainly use all the help we can get. :)

[markdrela]

i think the rod is bent wrong. cause for some reason, it doesnt look right even looking at it!

The rod has only one simple bend, so it can't be "bent wrong".

You can check that the wing root ribs are not opposite-angled as the photo suggests by placing the wings bottom to bottom. The root ribs should match up.

My guess is that the rod is not perpendicular to the fuselage axis. Using a piece of string, check to make sure that the rod tips are exactly the same distance from the end of the boom. If not, relocate one or both of the rod holes as necessary by enlarging a hole and then using epoxy filler on it.

[torcgolf]

i dont know what is wrong here but it's definately not lining up. i checked the distance from the LE of the fuse and it's the same. the rod is sitting 90 deg relative to the root fairing of the fuse.

im gonna try shaving the fuse down a little on both ends to see if this fixes it. this sucks man. :mad:

[ejett]

Torgolf:

Based on your pictures, the rod hole through the right side of the fuse needs to move back a tad or the left forward a tad or both moved half a tad in the appropriate direction. You have to adjust so the wings will fit flush to the fuse. If there is a little misalignment at the fairing, that can be dealt with by adding some epoxy/microballoons if it is objectionable. Just looking at the photos, I think you can get it to fit right without resorting to shaving the fuse and weakening it.

EJ

[torcgolf]

EJ, i looked at that option but the problem is if you look at the LE where it lines up with the fuse, it's near perfect. i measured the distance from that point (LE/Root saddle) to the start of the wing rod, it's identical too. this means that if i bore the hole out on one end to match it up, it's going to push the root chord LE back and be mismatched from the other.

i'll try it but it's really starting to tick me off that there's this much fiddling to get it even close.

hey denny, any comments?

[ejett]

Torgolf:

It is not going to take very much movement at all, especially if you move a little one way on the right side and a little the other way on the left side. There is evidently a little variation of the fairings one side to another.

My estimation is that the total amount of movement will be 1/16 of an inch or less and that would work out to 1/32 each side. The gap is about 1/8" or less per side and the ratio of the wing chord to the fuse is at least 4 to 1, maybe 5 to 1.

Maybe Denny has some suggestions. I hope you can get it to work out satisfactorily. I would love to have one of those planes.

EJ

[torcgolf]

ok so it looks like i have it close enough where wing tape would prolly hide the uneveness. what i ended up doing was:

1) tried to bend the wing rod (no luck :D it's way strong)
2) grinded the fuse a little on each end (i was a little hesitant to do this since i agree it will prolly degrade the fuse a little, BUT i did notice that the fuse was not symetrical so i figured it wouldn't hurt too much)
3) grinded the wing chords a little too
4) grinded the wing rod holes and filled with epoxy

geez, i spent over 2 hours on this part! i have to agree now that a 3 piece wing is prolly better for this reason alone :rolleyes:

if anyone else has this problem, you might wanna try any one of these to get it right.

[averen]

Is anyone planning on using RDS in the wing? I know Dr. Drela calls for it in the Supra plans, does the Thermal Dancer allow for it?

As far as the wing rod, I have heard of people going a step up on the bit and then filling in the voids with epoxy/carbon powder. The carbon powder provides a slicker surface so the rod will go in and out easier but is still plenty tough. I've never tried this so I'm not endorsing it...I've just heard that it's been done...MORE PICTURES!

jared

[capt soap]

Are the wing rod holes not pre drilled? exspesive kit,for not being predrilled. Lee

[Hanagar]

I don't know what RDS is. I'll probably build the kit as stock as I can figure out how to.

Actually, I was wondering - what should I use to cover over the servos once they're mounted in the wings?

[torcgolf]

here are some pics of the results. it's still a little off but oh well. insult to injury, one of the push rods were broke in half! is this kit cursed or what :eek:

[Phil Barnes]

Torcgolf

Your first step is to be sure that the holes in the fuselage are drilled such that the wingrod is perpendicular to the fuselage centerline. I think the simplest way to check that is to use some sort of 1/2" diameter straight rod (the dihedral angle in the joiner rod confuses things). A length of 1/2" OD brass tube from the hobby store would work if you don't have anything else.

Just put the straight rod through the fuselage holes and then use a triangle to check whether the rod is perpendicular to the wing roots. I think you will discover that it is not and you will need to ream one or both holes as others have mentioned.

Mark Drela's suggestion of measuring from the tip of the joiner to the tip of the boom and making sure that both measurements are equal is a good idea too. You can do this but make sure that the joiner sticks out the same distance from both sides of the fuselage first.

Please do not start sanding away at the fuselage wing roots. You will find fiberglass under the primer paint. I believe that there is a ply rib inside the fuselage but it is underneath the fiberglass. You would not want to sand away the fiberglass as that would weaken the fuselage. Once the joiner rod is perpendicular to the fuselage there should only be very minor gaps if any between the wing roots and the fuselage roots. These gaps could be eliminated by sanding some of the ply wing root rib away. These wing root ribs are 3/16" thick.

Here is a procedure that I would be tempted to try;

Make a couple ply root ribs from 3/16" plywood. Make them about 1/16" larger than the wing root all the way around. You can do this by tracing the wing root on the plywood and then cutting about 1/16" outside the lines. Drill a 1/2" hole in each root rib in the correct location for the joiner rod.

Drill one of the holes in your fuselage oversize to about 5/8" diameter.

Slide the joiner rod in place in the fuselage, slide one of the ply root ribs over each end of joiner, slide the wings in place.

The oversize hole on one side of the fuselage should allow enough play to get the joiner rod perpendicular to the fuselage and that, in turn, should allow the wings to align properly. I would tack glue the oversize ply ribs in place with a couple drops of CA. Then carefully measure from each wing tip to the tip of the tail boom. Once you get these two dimensions equal then the yaw alignment of the wings is set. This is the only alignment that matters at this stage of construction. You may need to cut your tack glue spots loose and reposition the oversize root rib if the alignment is off.

Once you have confirmed this wing-tip-to-end-of-tail-boom alignment then you can permanently epoxy the oversize root ribs in place. You should sand all primer off the fuselage roots first. There may be some slight gaps between the fuselage roots and wing roots. If so, these can be eliminated by sanding the newly added ply roots.

The root ribs were made a little oversize so that it would not be neccesary to drill the wing rod hole perfectly. To match these fuselage roots to the original fuselage roots you can just sand away the extra with a Dremel sanding drum. A little epoxy filler might also be nice to blend them in with the original roots. I would use West Systems 410 filler (from CST) mixed in with some laminating epoxy for this.

The above procedure is not neccesary if you are able to perfectly drill the holes in the fuselage roots correctly the first time. Even if you do drill the holes incorrectly the first time you might choose to ream or grind out one or both holes to reposition it and fill the oposite side of the hole with epoxy. But there is a reason why I wanted to have the extra plywood rib;

I have never flown this type of model with a dihedral joiner rod and a two piece wing. I have seen lots of them though at contests and many of them tend to suffer the same sort of damage from hard landings. On a hard nose first landing, the impact will cause the wing tips to move forward. The dihedral wing rod will rotae a bit and allow this motion to occur. The wing roots will pinch the fuselage together in the area between the wing root leading edges. Then the wings will bounce back and the wing trailing edges will impinge on the fuselage wing roots.

This slewing of the wings forward and aft can cause damage to the model. To prevent the fuselage from getting crushed when the wings slew forward, you can glue a dowel inside the fuselage between the wing root leading edges. The aft slweing of the wings on the rebound tends to cause creases in the wing root ends near the trailing edge. In the case of the Thermal Dancer wings, with the flaps going all the way to the root, The flap end would tend to get crushed and the hinge might even get torn a bit near the root end.

That's where the extra root rib comes in. I would taper the thickness of this extra rib towards the rear to create a gap between the wing root and this extra rib towards the trailng edge of the wing. I would taper the root rib to almost zero thickness at the trailing edge and begin the bevel maybe an inch or two ahead of the hinge line. This will create a gap that will prevent the flap from impinging on the fuselage root on hard landings. Starting the bevel some distance ahead of the flap hinge line may prevent the main part of the wing from getting creased as well.

The above idea is untested, I've never flown this type of plane. I have seen dozens of wings with the sort of wing damage I describe and often thought about what could be done to prevent it.

[Phil Barnes]

ok, so I was too late with my reply. Torcgolf posted while I was composing my reply.

I would most definitely slide your tailboom in place and measure the distance from each wing tip to the end of the tailboom. This is the alignment that counts and you don't want that to be very far off.

The slight gaps that show in the pictures now are what you might expect with the joiner rod aligned and could easily be sanded out of the ply wing root rib.

I would highly reccomend sanding some clearance between the flap end and the fuselage root to avoid the damage I described earlier from hard landings. You could also still add some sort rib, perhaps even a balsa rib between the wing and fuselage. Such a balsa rib could be glued to the wing root and sanded to eliminate any gaps and create clearance to protect the flap and wing trailing edge.

[torcgolf]

thanks for the reply phil. how much off is acceptable? i agree that sanding the fuse could weaken it but i made sure i took only a little off. like i said, the fuse was clearly not symetrical so i grinded it to make it more even. i noticed that there is at least a couple millimeters of resing before i got to the fg material.

i'll check the distance and repost...

[torcgolf]

ok so it's about 1/4" off from end of boom to tip of wings. it measure's 74.5" on the right wing and 74.25-ish" on the left. if this enough to cause some backlash? if so, i'm back to the grind tomorrow (excuse the pun).

while i had the wings joined and the boom on, i decided to dry fit the tail feathers too. i went an extra step and photoshopped the color scheme im going with. here you go!

[dennymaize]

Dudes

Hmmm, I missed all this. Phil has it pretty well covered. I have built TD's and havn't had any fit problems with the roots. Like any other 2 peice wing you may have to oversize a hole (or better yet, both) and fill to make the fit but very little is required.
In the instructions is a drawing showing removal of about 1/8th" of inboard flap to help with the landing issue that Phil was describing.
Wild stab in the dark says that from the measurements and the top photo, the right wing could come a scoch foreward (technical term:-) and alignment and fit would be fine.
It is not a good idea to grind on the fuse and the wing root and the holes all at the same time as you have no idea what you have at that point.
I was outside pretty much all day yesterday and will try to keep a closer eye on this stuff today.

Denny

[Hanagar]

Denny,
In case you missed earlier - I'm a pretty newbie builder, so for future revisions of the TD, I'd like to suggest more explicit instructions. There are some steps that I don't understand at all :), so I'm hoping that others here will post pictures or their experiences throughout the coming weeks.

[capt soap]

Phil/denny: Why not pre-drill the wing rod holes for the customer? Lee