1st-time builder - Gentle Lady

[intheswamp]

Howdy. I've been flying an Mulitplex EZ-Star foamie for a few months now. It's my first stint at RC. I started with the EZ as a trainer and it has done an outstanding job both in teaching me to fly and in being incredibly durable! My goal in all of this is to eventually fly pure sailplanes. My brother-in-law brought his little Cermark Dragonfly down last weekend and after seeing how light it was and how it floated (even with the 130 cobalt in the nose) it got me antsy about building.

I've pondered several different models...Oly II, Spirit, and Gentle Lady being my primary focus. Also looked at some of the other Skybench, NES, Laserart, etc., planes. I decided on the Gentle Lady because of it reputation for being a great first floater both in ease of flying and building. Nothing really negative about it other than it having a weak penetration and not being "modern"...the latter of which I don't really worry about...I'm a hang-over from the 70's myself. :D

I've seen some of the "supplies" lists and they're pretty basic. Being as I've never built a built-up plane I'm not sure of what size T-pins to use. I'm figuring the smaller 1" pins should be adequate...am I close to being right?

I've also seen where folks have recommended CA for putting it together, but I've read elsewhere (maybe Thornburg's book?) to use wood-glue (Titebond)and use the CA only to tack parts together.

These are (for now :rolleyes: ) the only questions I have regarding supplies.

Now, as to mods to do upon initial building: what are the important ones, if any? There's lot's of mods out there, but some I wonder about being needed.


Thanks a million(if I had it!) for your help!
Ed
Intheswamp

[silentfly]

Congrats on making the decision to build the GL. I personaly just finnished building one myself and its also my first thermal plane.

The GL is very easy to build if you follow the instructions, i unlike normal people, i tend to "forget" reading the insruction thourougly, and thats the main reason for most of my silly errors.

One of the Mods that i strongly suggest would be to sheet the top of the fuze and bottom of the fuze "cross-grain-ed" instead of following the instructions on that aspect. That means u need to buy a extra peice of balsa strip. Another mod that would be more difficult to do but not absolutely neccassary would be to build some spoilers.

Overall the plane's structure is simple and easy to put together. You would definately enjoy it. As for the Glue, im not too sure....i just built mine with CA.

If you have any questions, dont hesitate to ask, the people of the forum would be more than pleased to help. I just finnished the GL about 1-2 weeks ago, the steps of building are still fresh in my head. I think "seared ice" also built a GL, his one is electrified.

O yea...and make sure you have a flat work bench without any warps.
Good luck!

[petefly58]

The Gentle Lady is a good first glider......nothing handles better or flies more slowly in calm conditions. It was my first glider ( still have it ) and took about 2 weeks to build. The included instruction book eliminated all guess work. I found though, that if I didn't land exactly wings level every time, that the horizontal stabilizer trailing edge would crack where it meets the center piece just above the fuse due to the fact that the stab sits so close to the ground. Do yourself a favor and reinforce this area on both sides, reinforce the front part of the stab in a similar manner. And I agree with the previous suggestion to plank the top and bottom of the fuse with the grain going across, it will be much stronger. The GL does not have the strongest wing, it can be winched VERY carefully, but mostly you might want to stick with a hi start. Try to find an experienced glider pilot to help you in your first flights, perhaps there is a soaring club in your area. Good luck!!

Pete

[Soarbird]

Great first time glider that will go down in history as a classic. Probably more people have learned to fly with GL's than any other single design.

I echo all that's been said above but would suggest that the wing be beefed up at the centre join to allow for worry free winch launches. Not talking zoom style here but a reasonable launch. The GL is so light that a few ounces inveted here will pay big dividends.

Enjoy it.

[intheswamp]

Thanks everbody for your replies. I've gotta work up an order for the kit and supplies (no hobbie shops for at least 60 miles..more like 90!).

Silenflly: I know what you mean about the "instructions"....."when all else fails...read the docs!". Cross-grain sheeting...normally the grain runs with the longest dimension of a stick of balsa, right? I don't know how long those sheeted areas will have to be but I take this to mean I'll have to cut several pieces of sheeting and turn it cross-grained joining the pieces as I run down the length of the fuse. ??? Being as I hope to place a single order for everything I need what size sheeting should I order with the kit? Gotcha on the flat work board! Thanks!

petefly58: Great news to the GL coming with good instructions...good tech writers are a blessing! Regarding reinforcing the stab's trailing/leading edge: Ok, here you're talking about the trailing edge of the stab itself, not the elevator...correct? Got a recommendation on how to reinforce the trailing and leading edges...where/how? I've got some carbon-fiber strips...would that work? If so, where should it be applied. So far, I the closest soaring club that I've located is a couple of hundred miles away. :( There's a couple of clubs within 50 miles that I know fly nitro, but haven't seen a mention of sailplanes yet. I'll keep looking, though! Thanks!

Soarbird: Yelp, from what I've read the GL is a true classic with thousands of folks learning to fly on it. With that kind of reputation I figured I'd couldn't go wrong with it. :) Being as I'm a "hayfield flyer" I won't be doing any winch launches there, but I do plan on acquiring a full-size high-start. If there's a weak point in the GL I'd like to go ahead and correct it, so in regards to beefing up the wing-joint have you got some recommendations on this...remember, I'm a rank newbie. :) Thanks!

Thanks again everybody!
Ed
Intheswamp

[ejett]

Ed:

Where exactly in South Alabama are you? There are some guys down in the Mobile area that fly sailplanes although I'm not sure they are part of an "organized club".

Look up 'Smokin Joe' and send him a PM.

BTW: The GL is available as an ARF now if that is of any interest.

Regarding pins, the small ones are generally all I use. I use regular dressmakers pins most of the time. I like the ones with the little balls on top, but some of those are bad about the tops coming off. If you use the regular pins, get you a thimble to push them in with. There are some other modeling pins with different heads on them as well. Check the Hobby Lobby site for those.


EJ

[nuevo]

The exact username is Smoking Joe

To save you the search, here's a link to his contact info:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=31862

[sirdirk007]

I also would suggest beefing up the wing. I just folded mine this weekend and am rebuilding. After 9 launches on the winch and a very gentle foot. I got a 10 mph head wind and did not account for it. I plan on using a D spar in mine and will have to make modifications. The wight will not be a problem considering the wing load and incredible flight characteristics of the GL. Great selection though, I have flown for tem years gas, sail and electric. I still love the slow silent glide of the GL

[Tim Wolff]

Skip the spoilers (and the added weight) and learn to land it properly. Spoilers on these gas bags are just a crutch. Energy management!! Easy with the Gentle Lady, it's energy retention is almost nothing and it is very easy to bleed off excessive speed.

Build the optional renforced wing shown in the plans (at least there was one back when I built one ~15-20 years ago). 3-piece wing. Electrical tape holds the tip panels on for flying. Cover the wing and tail with MONOKOTE. The strength it provides is needed. Use transparent orange or transparent red for visibility. It you don't like transparents, use dark blue or black on the bottom of the wing, but they will not "glow" in the sun like the transparent. Transparent yellow stinks for visibility.

I don't recall how the top and bottom of the fuse are sheeted on the plans. Applying it cross grain with the grain of the wood running perpindcular to the length of the fuse is the "right" way to do it aft of the wing. If you are in this for the long haul. Glass and paint the fuse. I strongly recomend it if you build an Oly II. Actually, I recomend that you just build an Oly II if you haven't purchased the Gentle Lady kit yet.

The Gentle Lady can be winch launched IF you know how to operate a winch and use your head. Mine has been winch launched exclusively w/o wing renforcement of any kind aside from being covered in monokote. I didn't even build the renforced version of the wing :)

The stab can be renforced with spruce or carbon strip on the inside of the front and rear edges. Add a Dubro plastic skid to help keep the tail off the ground. In reality, if you are consistently tearing up the stab landing, one made of carbon is just going to get ripped off the fuse (see the first suggestion about the spoilers and learning to land).

[nuevo]

Skip the spoilers

<SNIP>

Transparent yellow stinks for visibility.


Disagree: build the spoilers. You'll likely need them when learning.

Agree: transparent yellow. Good way to lose a plane in the sky.

[ICTHRMLS]

A simple modification would be to add a strip of carbon fiber along the top and bottom of the stick spar prior to placing it in the ribs. Very little weight gain and much greater strength. You can use C/A or epoxy to attach the c/f. It will probably help fill the gap in the wing rib too.

For your first glider keep the covering / color scheme simple to make repairs easier. Contrasting colors on top and bottom work well. Good luck and post some pictures when you get done with it.

[sailhigh]

Intheswamp,
Congrats on choosing the proper plane. Many times a newbie asks about a first plane and though many respond witht the Gentle Lady, a few are strong proponent of foamies. You made the right choice. I have built three GLs in my days. My first ever glider ever was a GL. My last one, just finished a few weeks ago, was equipped with ailerons.
As for recommendations, as others have said, get a straight building board. Use CA for most areas and epoxy for high stress areas eg: spar joiners and bulkheads. I don't recommend the three piece wing as the single piece is lighter and stronger. Balance the wing laterally. If one wing is heavy, carve holes in the balsa wing tip of the lilght wing and epoxy lead weight. Use monokote to cover the plane as the design relies on the strength of the material. If you use intend to use a winch, use it very gently, but I've found out I can get better launches using a high start. But most important of all, get an instructor.

Best of luck,

Sean

[Smoking Joe]

Ed:
Good choice in the GL. I used it to get stick time after a absence of 15 years of flying and building. It has survived several lawn dart landings, 2 pecan trees, power lines, 1 tung oil tree, rooster pens, and chicken coops. I built the 3 piece wing with spoilers. There is a thread on RC Universe about the GL spoilers. The wing hold down I changed to 2 cross dowels, due to fore mentioned obstacles. We have since moved to a new flying site with more room due to complaints from SPCA. Would like to know where in South Alabama you are. PM me. You are more than welcome at our flying field and any assistance we could help you with. Smoking Joe

[11b2c]

To answer your question about reinforcing the horizontal stab, try affixing it to the fuselage prior to covering. After you do this, wrap the center of the stab and the fuselage with a couple of layers of 3/4 ounce fiberglass cloth and epoxy. The unit is very strong, light, and is not noticeable if you sand it a little and cover it with monokote. Covering the bottom of the stabilizer will be more difficult than if you cover it before joining it to the fuse, but that is the only downside of this build.

reinforcing the leading edge of the stab near the root with a couple of gussets is not a bad idea either.

I did this to mine and it has not had any trouble staying put after about 50 logged hours of flying.

[fprintf]

Intheswamp,
Congrats on choosing the proper plane. Many times a newbie asks about a first plane and though many respond witht the Gentle Lady, a few are strong proponent of foamies.

Sean, as one of the vocal & strong proponents of foamies I cannot disagree with you on this one. Many times when we recommend foamies the fliers are brand new to flying or have only flown/crashed briefly. In this case, our newbie (:)) has some flying time and therefore probably knows left from right, up from down etc. and therefore a foamie's advantages are probably unnecessary.

[intheswamp]

Thanks everybody for the great response to my inquiry about the Gentle Lady. Now...don't boot me out or call me a little ol' lady, but I'm having second thoughts about things. As I mentioned to begin with, my two top choices were the Oly II and the Gentle Lady. And if you look back in my original post I stated I'd made a discision on the GL. Weeell, I'm not sure again! I've all of this great feedback I'm back floundering around between the Oly II and Gentle Lady. :o Sheese, I am beginning to feel like a little ol' lady that can't make up her mind.

Both planes are great flyers from all the information that I can find...really no negatives to either one. One of the primary concerns of mine (other than building a good plane) is the ease of building. From what I can tell both are good beginner kits. One reason I figured the Gentle Lady would be better for me was due to the fact that I "figured" it would have a lower parts count and thus be easier to build. But then I got to thinking(a dangerous thing for me) that maybe the Oly II's parts count wasn't that much higher than the Gentle Lady...that maybe it's simply that the Oly II's parts are of a larger dimension. So, as I sit here writhing in the agony of my indecision here are some things I'm wondering about:

Does anybody know the parts counts on the Oly II and the Gentle Lady?

Does the Oly II kit use larger dimensioned balsa than the GL does?

Which is the stronger plane? From what Smoking Joe said I'd have to be flying a Sherman tank to have something more durable than the GL. I emailed a person today inquiring about the parts-counts and building of the two planes. This is a well-known individual who is very knowledgeable about rc planes but that is naturally biased towards the Oly II. His response was that I was missing the point...that the difference is that the Oly II is a much stronger plane. So...???

I know that the Oly II has to take longer to build than the GL simply due to it's larger size and I realize that it's more expensive and that it'll take more covering, etc.,. Unless I *really* get the "building fever", whichever one I build will be my primary plane for the next couple of years so I'd like to "go for the gusto" here. (I reserve the right to retract the "primary plane for the next couple of years" statement in case of a catastrophic cosmic occurance of a phenomenon known as "balsaranoutofskyandmetterrafirma".)

...and, as you can tell, I've flipped-flopped a tad and am leaning towards the Oly. I've gotta make a decision 'cause the indecision is killin' me!

I ain't plopped the plastic card down yet, so it could go either way. Funny, I think I'm wrestling over buying "the" plane moreso than I did buying my Jeep. :D

Thanks everybody for puttin' up with me. It's interesting that when I decided I wanted to fly sailplanes some of the things that attracted me was the peaceful, silent flight that I envisioned. With that vision I figured that folks that flew sailplanes for the pure joy of it would be a rather friendly, helpful crowd...wish I could pick stocks on Wall Street as well as I figured that out. :)

Take care,
Ed
Intheswamp
(feeling like a little ol' lady that can't make up her mind)<ARGGGHHHH!!!!!>

[ICTHRMLS]

FWIW...... buy and build the GL and have some fun with it. You can always ask Santa for the OLY II and you'll have a winter building project!! Just a thought.

[intheswamp]

FWIW...... buy and build the GL and have some fun with it. You can always ask Santa for the OLY II and you'll have a winter building project!! Just a thought.

ICTHRMLS, you are BRILLIANT!!! Now why didn't I think of that? Here I am worrying about trying to figure out which one and you come along and give me a simple solution! Thanks! Now the only problem I've got is figuring out where I'm gonna hangar these babies at...and keep my better half happy at the same time some Santa will bring me that Oly! :D

Now to go put together my shopping list! BTW, anybody got a preference on brand of rubberbands to use on the wings?

Thanks, ICTHRMLS, for clearing the mud for me.

...gee, that was simple. :D

Ed Welch
Intheswamp

[ICTHRMLS]

Now the only problem I've got is figuring out where I'm gonna hangar these babies at...
You might check a thread I found some time ago by starting HERE (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1092958&postcount=5) There several great ideas for storage in the rest of the thread.

Also, consider the use of "stretchy" rubberbands..... :D (Sorry... couldn't resist)

[intheswamp]

Ok, I'm committed now (after ICTHRMLS figured things out for me) to building the Gentle Lady. Just a moment of madness on my part.

So, what tools and supplies do I need?

So far I've come up with:

Gentle Lady kit
Tin-pins (100) ....do I need more than this?
45min Epoxy 9oz.
Thin CA 2oz
Titebond glue
Monokote (2 rolls...colors to be announced<g>)
Sandpaper: looking at 150 and 220 grit along with a GP 22" Easy Sander Bar

Several folks recommended that I "cross grain" the top and bottom of the fuse. What size balsa sheet should I order to do this with?

If you see something I need to change or something I need to add holler back...gonna place the order Sunday night!

Thanks...again!!!!
Ed
Intheswamp

[billrcpilot]

ED:

You may what to fiberglass the nose and bottom of the fuselage, just use lite weight glass cloth. it help's to keep the nose and bottom from bad or hard landing.

Bill :D

[fprintf]

More stuff for your supplies list, based on what I used this past winter:

#11 Xacto knife and 100 pk of blades
100 pk. of single edge razor blades (for cutting covering)
Covering iron with a sock

Optional:
60 grit sandpaper for grinding misfitting parts down. Plain old Home Depot stuff on a 12" 2x4 works just fine.
Small box of Arm & Hammer baking soda. This stuff works miracles for filling poorly fitting joints, but quickly adds weight (so be careful with it)
Acetone or Nail polish remover to unstick your fingers from the plane after using the CA and baking soda
Heat gun for removing wrinkles in covering and helping push epoxy around

As for the cross grained balsa, this really depends on what the stock fuselage is built with. I know you said a local hobby shop is a long way away, but this is really something that can (?should?) wait until you get the kit so you can see what size to buy. My *guess* is you want one or two pieces of 1/16"x3"x36". If for nothing else, you can order the balsa and then make "Whipper Whiz" hand-chuck gliders if you can't use it! :)

[silentfly]

You also some medium CA as well...around 2oz as well (thats how much i used).
You also need the #64 rubberbands (check for u when i get home)
Iwill also tell you what type of balsa you need to get when i get home...

Otherwise the supplies look good!

[RBeach]

Hi Ed,

The Gentle Lady is certainly a good choice as teaching tool, it's very forgiving, you can't go wrong.
I noticed in you choice of tools, you chose the long 22" sanding bar. That tool is fine for smoothing out the constructed wing panel or the length of the fuselege. It performs a sanding job that is unique to that tool. I have one but I also have the 5 1/2" sanding bar. I reach for the small one 50 times for every time I use the longer one. Obviously both are nice to have but I certainly would not forget to purchase the short one as well. The two sanding bars do different jobs.
Ed, the other tool I reach for constantly is a micro saw. The Exacto blade is fine for cutting the balsa lengthwise. The saw is the tool for cutiing crossgrain. I would think one would be almost mandatory in this basic tool kit.

Remember:
You can't be too rich....
You can't be too thin....
And you can't have too many tools

Good luck with your Gentle Lady.

Cheers,
Roland Beach

[intheswamp]

What about control rods, horns, clevises, etc.,. I'm figuring it's all included in the kit, but figured I'd be sure. Is there any improvement to be made over the standard kitted parts?

Thanks!
Ed
Intheswamp

[ICTHRMLS]

Ed - While there may be several modifications suggested or offered for the Gentle Lady I recommend you stay fairly stock in the concept of construction. The instructions are well written and will keep you on the right building track. Modifications to add strength are good changes but a complete overhaul of your first glider project may result in delays to flying. I do recommend tracing all of the wing ribs onto a piece of paper before building so you will have a template to make new ones if needed. I found that out the hard way.

I also agree with RBeach about the 22 inch sanding bar.... it is not one of the more frequently used tools and I would rather have 2 - 11" bars with different grits. Home made sanding blocks are good to have (maple or oak is a good choice) and may be cheaper in the long run.

[solo6796]

Also, make little sanding blocks out of the spar material or other scraps using double sided tape. Perfect for small corners and cleaning up the spar notch in ribs, and smoothing the ends of capstrips to the rest of the wing, other small areas where the big blocks take too much material off...

AJ

[intheswamp]

Ok everybody. Below is a list of what I have already and what I'm considering ordering.

I have to matters I'm curious about...

What type hinges and what tools do I need for them?

Monokote color: I'm looking at the transparent blue for the wings and thinking about a dark color for the fuse. Will the transparent blue be ok, or would the red be better for visibility?

I'm wanting to order tonight so if you have a suggestion, deletion, addition, or whatever holler back at me! Thanks!

[ITEMS ALREADY ON HAND]
Med. CA 2+oz
Exacto Miterbox w/Razor-Saw (blade #236, coarse, I think)
Dave Brown Carbon fiber strip for reinforcing leading/trailing edges of stab? spars?
Exacto knife (need blades)
Dremel

[TENTATIVE ITEMS ON SHOPPING LIST]
*Gentle Lady kit
*T-pins (100) 1"
*45min Epoxy 9oz.
*Brushes for epoxy
*Building board of some type
*Thin CA 2oz
*Titebond glue
*Monokote (2 rolls...colors to be announced<g>)
*Sandpaper: looking at 150 and 220 grit
*GP 11" Easy Sander Bar
*GP 5.5" Easy Sander Bar
*#64 Rubberbands
*Heat-gun/covering iron w/sock
single-edged razor blades
#11 Exacto blades
Extra balsa-sheeting for cross-grain fuse sheeting
Fiberglass .5-.75oz (light weight) for possibly reinforcing tail feathers, wing center-joint, nose/fuse
Dubro plastic skid to help keep the tail off the ground

Thanks!
Ed
Intheswamp

[ejett]

I have several T-bar sanders, mostly the 11" variety.

Another thing I have used is 1X2 pine and put the sandpaper on them using a standard staple gun on the back side. This also gives the narrow sides that are sometimes handy on tighter spots.

I have some of the tungsten carbide "Perma Grit" sanders as well.

Sanding tools of various types will be the most used tools you have for building with wood. You can't have too many.

You might think about some heavier FG for reinforcing the wing center. The 3/4 oz. stuff is pretty weak for that spot.

EJ

[Bob E.]

I've built both planes and, really, they are so similar in construction, that I would say they are the same building difficulty...that is if you build them per the directions. There are so many mods out there to both planes that you could get as complicated as you wish. But if I were you, I would follow the advise given above and just follow the directions since you are a beginner. You will be much happier with the result. The GL was my first RC plane nearly 20 years ago. I loved that plane and had a great time with it. I used a Cox teedee .09 on a motor pod to haul it up there. It was a little overpowered, but it really hauled it up there. I destroyed it after flying it 2.5 years when some wind smashed it into the ground. Right now I am flying a OlyII that I just started flying this summer as my return to the hobby after a 15 year layoff. I like it. It is a good sailplane. But if I had it to do over again, I wish I had built another GL. I liked it better. And the club I just started getting involved with actually has a 2m duration contest (something to think about when choosing a model). Most of those guys have GL's. I still have my plans and have been thinking about scratch building one this winter. Oh, and by the way, my GL used monokote hinges per the plans. I doubt they changed the design. The only variations to the plans that I did was to use cross dowels for rubber banding the wing instead of the center dowels. It seemed more sturdy. Also, I reinforced the center of the wing by wrapping it with about a 3" or 4" wide strip of SIG Celastik (I think that is what it was called). I haven't seen that stuff around for a long time, though. I assume it is still available.

[intheswamp]

Well, I plopped the plastic card down this morning and put in an order for the GL. $45 ain't too bad...but then you add some tools and supplies and you see where the cost of the plane comes from! I figure the tools are an investment for the future and some of the building supplies I'll have left over to use building the Christmas Oly II.<g>

There are four mods that I am seriously considering doing. Not sure you'd call them mods or not, but here they are:

1. Reinforce the wing spars with fiber carbon strips.
2. Reinforce the wing centers with fiberglass.
3. Reinforce the stab's leading and trailing edges with carbon fiber.
4. Reinforce the stab/fuse joint with fiberglass.

There's one more mod that I'm curious about. That is changing the center wing-mounting dowels to cross dowels. It does seem like this would be more sturdy than the center dowel but it also appeaers that it would compromise the aerodynamics of the plane. There's a lot of planes that use the cross dowels so...anybody got some thoughts on this?

Thanks everybody for all the feedback ya'll have been giving me. Great group here!!!!

Ed
Intheswamp

[11b2c]

There was a post a couple of months ago that raised this same question about the dowels lengthwise vs. width wise. Since the crosswise dowels spread out the forces between the wing and fuse across a greater area, it yields a more stable platform and stronger junction. Understand, however, that unless you are doing some serious acro the only reason why you would need more strength here is during an overzealous winch launch. In which case the weak point is the entire spar anyways...

On the other hand, the dowel down the center does a great job of doing what it should; namely, provide a way that the wing can pop off if the fuse comes to a sudden stop during a landing or something. In that case you want the wing to just keep going so the fuse doesn't have to absorb the momentum of the wing.

There also, apparently, is a fairly significant increase in the frontal area of the glider if you do the perpendicular route. Though I doubt, at the low speeds this sucker flies, you would ever notice.

The concensus on the previous post was to leave it as is.

[silentfly]

I also agree with 11b2c,
Just leave it as it is....i had no problems with it....so far hehe
Besides you wont be able to do crazy aroebic stuff on it anyways

The balsa for cross grain sheeting is: (hope im not too late :()
1/16" x 3" x 24"

[ejett]

I agree as well. 11b2c's Gentle Lady did not have any problems flying off my 3m highstart. The mounting is strong enough as designed for the wing structure.

EJ

[intheswamp]

Thanks everybody, I'll go by the plans for the wing dowel.

Silentfly: I appreciate the info on the balsa dimensions. I've already placed the order but I need to make a trek to 'yond distant hobby store anyhow...look through the goodies there, oogle a few items, etc.,. :)

One box scheduled for delivery tomorrow!!!

Ed
Intheswamp