In search of a Pierce Aero Paramount.

[oracle_9]

Hello,
I have heard some people looking for the Paramount and I got myself intrigued with this plane. I believe it is a XC country ship similar to a Paragon but with 150" span. I am not at that level to fly such a big plane but when I do get to it, I wouldnt mind trying this plane out for fun.

The manufacturer who sold this ship has its discontinued and doesnt have plans of it.

So, basically....Anyone have a PLAN or a kit for this plane?

It is a called Pierce Aero Paramount....or Paramount. I think it is 150inc or so.
And I think it looks similar to a Paragon.

Thanks for any help.

[Lunns]

Try skybench, they don't list this specific model, but they do have a few Pierce models and maybe could point you to the right place if they couldn't help themselves.

http://www.skybench.com/

Cheers

Steve

[erich]

Try "dream catcher hobbies" they have several Cross Country ships.
I just got a Sagitta XC short kit from them its about 14' wingspan, it's all
wood construction including fuselage. They also got Sailaire (12') short kit,
Aquilla XL (12') full kit, and the Grand Esprit (11') short kit. All big ships.

erich

[Robglover]

I know some folks who have a nice one that is for sale. Are you interested?
Rob Glover

[oracle_9]

I am merely looking for any plans for it. I like to scratch build planes :)
But if its a full built plane, then maybe someone else who is looking for it may have it.

[oracle_9]

I called Skybench up and they said they do not have it. DChobby is on vacation so I have to wait, but its unlikely that they should have, but I will call them up when they come back.

[oracle_9]

....in the mean time, if someone knows a club mate or a friend who used to fly one, can you have them email me....or email me their email address so that I can contact them if they still kept their plans for it.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

How many do you want? I would have to cut some from the templates that Ed has left with Bob Sliff. Have to figure out a price. Maybe a "short" kit.

[oracle_9]

only 1 plan....and if possible instructions too.

[erich]

I would also be interested in the plans and or rib set.

erich

[adtalbott]

There was only 36 kits made of the Paramount,I doubt if you will find one.I have one in mint condition,NOT for sale'.I could possibly copy the plans and instructions for you.I need your email address so we can discuss cost etc.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Talked with Ed yesterday. Got his permission to do partial kits with plans. Guess this would be the ribs and a few other cut items. Would supply a need-to-buy list for the remaining wood. Darn big sailplane.

I'll have to open up the box with the templates and check things out. Might even CAD the plan set so it's easier to print. Also think there is a full kit on the shelf.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Some more digging in the dust and spider webs in the back of Bob's "shop" produced two boxes full of Paramount canopies. Must be at least 70 of them. Also found another box of "parts" and box labels.

[oracle_9]

Well, at least you dont have to make it, and 70 canopys for this particular plane is plenty.

Thanks for the updates.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Think I'm going to become a Budist as it's going to take a few reincarnations to sell enough Paramounts to use up all those canopies.

Back to CADing the plans.

[erich]

Still interested in one incarnation of a Paramount. Been looking for one quite awhile now. Had a Paragon (112" brother) since 1986 or so. It was one of the most fun planes I ever built. Have a Sagitta XC, ready to be built, but I'd rather go with a Paramount. Keep us informed of your progress with the plans and
rib sets.

Thanks

erich

[big jer]

Hi Guys
I've got about as much time on a Paramount as most I suppose so I thought I'd chime in.
It is a very good flying model; I made a 100K flight in 81 I think. The flaps are big and powerful. They also set up a big downwash on the Stab. I blew off two sets of stabs on the Dick Conners model and on the second time it blew up. So, recommendations. Use a larger stab pivot pin, probably .250 carbon or a Carbon/alum. arrow shaft. maybe some .007 carbon caps on the stab spars. keep the linkage tight. keep the flap linkage tight. Don't hesitate to add some carbon to the wing spar caps (.032 ?) and wrap with kevlar thread. A little extra effort building will pay off in piece of mind and a longer lasting model. the Paramount flew great.

JDK

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Jerry Krainock I presume? There is a "Cross Country Sailplane Flying" instruction sheet in the kit. Lead picture is a couple of youngish fellows holding a Paramount on a desert road.

[SoarNeck]

Now I'm curious...anyone have a photo of one?

[oracle_9]

I found a picture, not sure exactly, but I think this is a Paramount....from a newsletter "The Eagles Nest" from SVSS ...I think.

[Ric Duley]

This plane is starting to sound more interesting each time I read about it. :)

SoCalGliderFlyr,
Have you come up with a price for the short kit yet? Even if it was just ribs, plans and a canopy (or 2 ;) ), if the price was right I'd be interested.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

13 foot poly with full flying H-stab and flaps. Nostalgic class acceptable. Kind of a blown up Gemini.

Flyers in picture match those on the cross country flying instructions in the kit.

Have to finish putting the "stock" plans into CAD then update the structure as was mentioned by Jerry.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

So much for my memory. Looks like the same guys but at an earlier time.

[apage]

How much for the full kit? Alternately, I would be interested in a partial kit, but would prefer a copy of the original plans rather than CAD plans.

[oracle_9]

Yep, looks like same people.
I am now interesting in both the newer CAD plan version, and also the copy of the original plans (can be photocopy of it)

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

There goes the Nostalgia class! Ed's plans have 6-81 as the date. If one was built and flown in 1980 then maybe it will still qualify.

[oracle_9]

It is still a beautiful flying machine ...and still older than me.

[big jer]

The second Picture is Alex Bower and I in 81 or 82 on the day I made the 100K. Alex launched, I flew. I know the other guys (SFVSF) set some other national Records that day.
Ed's prototype Paramount flew in 79 or 80 I'm sure. maybe prior to that. The first version (prototype) had shorter tips and Ed made them longer by popular demand.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

It is still a beautiful flying machine ...and still older than me.

Wish I could say that!

[big jer]

I do not know the names of the men in the first photo but It might be Taft.

I sure wished i weighed the same

JDK

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

I do not know the names of the men in the first photo but It might be Taft.

I sure wished i weighed the same

JDK


It's NOT weight! It's balast!

Or me manly girth.

[oracle_9]

Here in Canada we just had Thanks Giving day, and I think I just added some ballast onto myself.

[oracle_9]

SoCal....do you run the Midway Models?

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

SoCal....do you run the Midway Models?

Well, kind of -- I guess. Bob Sliff still owns the business but is spending most of his time being a college professor. I made an agreement to finish the 3 meter Gnome kits and sell them as well as what stock there is on the shelves. Other than the 3 meter Gnomes there are 2 meter Gnomes, the original 1.5 meter Gnome, Paragons, Ridge Rats, a couple of Gemini's and lots of balsa and ply. Also found the original hand drawings for the Paramount.

I also (as a favor) handle any shipping that comes from Ed Slobod on his Paragons, Gemini's and Ridge Rats sales.

As time permits I've been redoing a real web site for Midway Models and other chores around Bob's shop.

It's a shame to see these resources go to waste. But then the hobby takes many directions not all of which are benificial if you don't keep up with the trends.

[steelhead]

Are the original plans available for purchase? Will I be able to purchase the CAD plans as well?

Dean

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Dean, The CAD plans will have both the original details and the suggested structural up dates. As the original plans did not have the rib outlines these have to be taken into CAD and reconciled with the plans to be properly incorporated into the plan set and to be sent out for laser cutting.

I'm about 2/3rds through the CAD process. I want to build a couple of the critical sections to prove out the plans. Might just wind up with a complet plane!

[oracle_9]

(Concerning you building a prototype to test it)

Come on now, dont lie, you know how this will end....building a second plane to "double check" if the first test was good...hehe :-)

[oracle_9]

Well, thats usually how I end up when scratch build...

Anyway, thanks for the update SoCal

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

(Concerning you building a prototype to test it)

Come on now, dont lie, you know how this will end....building a second plane to "double check" if the first test was good...hehe :-)

So. You want to build a proto type?????

Or I should say a proof as the plans are just being CAD'd.

[oracle_9]

Oh, LOL....You miss understood the underlined joke....sorry about that, should have make it more clear.

I was just joking how hobbyist like to build planes and more planes, and usually they have sometimes 2 or more of the same type of plane....like me and many other people. You know, like why someone needs 2 or 3 gentle ladys in fact you really need one (hehe I needed something to do during the winters). The joy of building, thats why!!! I humourously stated the second plane to be a "double check" to see if the first one was alright. This was commented toward how people usually build something, and if they are hardcore hobby addicts, they usually building another just for the heck of it.

My previous was just humour comment, not really aimed toward you, and please if you found it offensive or anything (though, i dont see how that could be offensive) I must appologize.

Just in case that this is not understood, I am not looking to build a prototype at the moment.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Oh, LOL....You miss understood the underlined joke....sorry about that, should have make it more clear.
...

Just in case that this is not understood, I am not looking to build a prototype at the moment.

Actually it would be a "proof" as the original plans have already been built from. Transfering them to CAD and incorporating structural improvements shouldn't change things much.

I don't know if I'm going to have the time in the next month or so to proof out the plans.

[oracle_9]

Anyway, looking back, i dont know if I misunderstood you or vice versa, but I do know I got the FLU for the past week.

According to the modifications stated earlier by JDK, these are minor mods, but will greatly improve strength. So you shouldn't have to worry about proofing it. Although, once the plans are available, we could start a "Paramount Building" thread and get peoples opinions and results for it.