Large hulls

[Wing Zero]

What would be the best way, to build a large hull that is sturdy and yet, as light as possible? Example: If I wanted to build a hull that has a two feet beam, 15 foot length, 1 foot eight inchs in height, and make it split in 3 segments... what would be a good way to do? I thought about using 1" baltic birch plywood bulk heads where the segmants meet, and use four 1/2" thick shaft bolts to hold them together... if I was to make a hull roughly this size, should the hull be made of heavier wood, or fiberglass? If fiberglass, how many layers and what weights? I need a very strong hull. I Want to stay light as possible, yet make sure it can handle the ballast inside needed to get it down to the water line. Someone suggested using 2x4's for the hull, with a couple layers of 6 ounce glass... any ideas would be helpful, thanks. Oh, and for that hull, what kind of electric motors would you recommend? I was thinking four speed 700 size motors, geared down. Some of the real life ships, only hit 12 knots or so... I am looking for a scale ish effect. Big, heavy, slow (no to slow), easy to move when I need to transport it. -James

[RGinCanada]

Hi Wing Zero,

These guys, http://www.greatlakesmodeling.com/tips/footer/footer_intro.htm build 1000' Great Lakes ships at 1/87 scale. This link gives great info on assembling a hull of this size in segments. It also has tips on ballasting using a pump system. That way the hull doesn't need the same structural strength.

Other people building these ships incorporate free-flooding sections to maintain the waterline, and eliminate the complexity of the pump system.

Hope this helps,

Ray

[Wing Zero]

Thank you Ray, I checked out the site... not too much of a help, although it did verify for me, many of my ideas. I had planned to use a water ballast system, although my way is a slight bit different. The site was well done, great site. Lots of helpful stuff for beginners, or anyone interested in those kind of ships. There was alittle bit of help with ideas, but I am still out at sea without finding anyone else who could help. Seems my idea my be even less done then I though. I have yet to even find plans for the ships, have wrote several ship building contractors, and not a single reply. I'd think getting ship building plans of common/modern ocean going freighters and tankers wouldn't be so dang hard. I was wrong. I've seen a couple, but nothing I would like. The ones I like, I can't find help with. -James

[English Nige]

Hi Wingzero,

Im in a similar predicament !! I have an 8 foot ocean liner - Empress of Asia thats not finished yet, but Im toying with using a water ballast system on her.

My other long term project is a 1-72nd scale Titanic, that measures out at just over 12 feet long. I have built the hull only so far, and have made it in two sections for ease of transport - but like you I have not worked out how to join these sections together.
I think that a simple set of four bolts will do however - KISS applies I think !!! (Keep It Simple Stupid!!!)

And again with something of this size a water ballast system will be an absolute must - no way am I going to be dragging around pounds and pounds of lead or extra car batteries!!

Let me know any thoughts you might have - and if you want to bounce any ideas around - please drop me a line.

Nigel Hampson, Burnley, England

[English Nige]

Wingzero - Hi,
I just posted a few pics of the 12 foot Titanic hull I am working on. They are under the "Mould making - help!" title.
Thought you might like to check them out,
Cheers,
Nige

PS - I've included here two pics of Millie the ships cat for size comparison purposes !!! :D :D

[triton]

What would be the best way, to build a large hull that is sturdy and yet, as light as possible? Example: If I wanted to build a hull that has a two feet beam, 15 foot length, 1 foot eight inchs in height, and make it split in 3 segments... what would be a good way to do? I thought about using 1" baltic birch plywood bulk heads where the segmants meet, and use four 1/2" thick shaft bolts to hold them together... if I was to make a hull roughly this size, should the hull be made of heavier wood, or fiberglass? If fiberglass, how many layers and what weights? I need a very strong hull. I Want to stay light as possible, yet make sure it can handle the ballast inside needed to get it down to the water line. Someone suggested using 2x4's for the hull, with a couple layers of 6 ounce glass... any ideas would be helpful, thanks. Oh, and for that hull, what kind of electric motors would you recommend? I was thinking four speed 700 size motors, geared down. Some of the real life ships, only hit 12 knots or so... I am looking for a scale ish effect. Big, heavy, slow (no to slow), easy to move when I need to transport it. -James

The true scale speed would be less than 1 knot. Your main issue for your hull is the keel - the backbone. Need to strengthen it, one inch square hardwood shape and laminated between glass layer. 2 layers of 10oz mat(cheaper and easier to wet), and additional one layer to laminate the keel, bulkhead each about a foot a part.

How are you making the hull joints waterproof?

Jw

[Wing Zero]

Hello Nige and Triton.

Well, I don't know how I would attach the hull segments, but the link to the great lakes modeling website had alot of useful information... They had a good idea for joining the havles. Their ships are around 11 feet long, and the websites contact was nice. I got a reply. I think the bolts I mentioned would be enough. I plan on using PVC pipes, with cap ends and clean out ends for the ballast tanks. Probly two or three tanks per segment. That way, I can control the amount of ballast at either end. I would make them removable for cleaning. I will probly build the ship from pine 2X4's, shaped. then glass cloth. thick ply bulkheads, and thinner ones in between. The deck will possibly be 1/4" glassed hard board. I would just have a wet hull, but that concerns me a bit. Chec out that website, lots of good information. The keel of my ship, will not be a problem, at all... typical displacement hull... I'll be pushing a box through the water! The joints? Not sure yet. I am still looking into things. If I attempt something like this, that will have to be worked out, before hand. First,
I need more ideas and research before I go at it.

[English Nige]

Hi Wing Zero,

Yes I had a look at that site too - it's very good - lots of information there - thanks to RG in Canada for posting it.
I think that Im going to use the "Bolt it" approach to joining the two halves together. As long as it's done on the water and the two halves are equally ballasted I dont think there will be a problem...........have I just tempted fate there.....!! :eek:
Nige

[Tregurtha1013]

As I am one of the guys using the method described on the Great Lakes Modeling site let me know if you have questions about it. I am currently building the Paul R. Tregurtha, a 1,013 foot Great Lakes freighter in HO scale. It splits in half and uses the pump system for ballast.

Scott Tomlinson

[3nero]

have you seen this one made from cardboard

SD14 cargo ship (http://www.marcle.clara.net/sd14.htm)

i have always wanted one :cool:

[OhioMike]

Presently building a 1/87 scale DG Kerr, a 1920's era great laker. Approx. 82" loa. Mine is built with standard woodworking techniques. this will be covered in several layers of 2oz cloth. I'm useing a passive water ballast system with holes cut in the bottom leading to 3-4 compartments. These compartments will then be sealed with epoxy resin, as many coats as neccessary. The water level will be maintained by the placement of vent lines out the side of each compartment, barely perceptable by their small size. Water, and its charateristic of seaking a common level will only fill the comparment to those vent lines. If necessary, i'll place foam panels just under the deck in each compartment to raise the hull w/l if necessary. Obviously i havent gotten to the water test stage yet. I have plans for the Arthur Anderson as well for a future project in 1/87 scale. That one i'll do in 2 peices. But still planning a passive system with that as well. My view of KISS, (Keep it simple stupid) is always the best approach...Less chances of pumps failing etc.! Good luck with your project.

[Tregurtha1013]

Presently building a 1/87 scale DG Kerr, a 1920's era great laker. Approx. 82" loa. Mine is built with standard woodworking techniques. this will be covered in several layers of 2oz cloth. I'm useing a passive water ballast system with holes cut in the bottom leading to 3-4 compartments. These compartments will then be sealed with epoxy resin, as many coats as neccessary. The water level will be maintained by the placement of vent lines out the side of each compartment, barely perceptable by their small size. Water, and its charateristic of seaking a common level will only fill the comparment to those vent lines. If necessary, i'll place foam panels just under the deck in each compartment to raise the hull w/l if necessary. Obviously i havent gotten to the water test stage yet. I have plans for the Arthur Anderson as well for a future project in 1/87 scale. That one i'll do in 2 peices. But still planning a passive system with that as well. My view of KISS, (Keep it simple stupid) is always the best approach...Less chances of pumps failing etc.! Good luck with your project.

Hey Mike,

How far is the Kerr along? My Tregurtha's hull is all but done and have started the cabin a few days ago.

Scott

[OhioMike]

Hey Scott, you guys comeing down to Elyria this year with some of those Ore boats. That would diffenitely impress some folks around here. I am the only person i know who could take a 6 month project and turn it into a 3 year project without doing anything. LOL! Thats basically what i've done to this dam ore boat. I have the hull basically ready to fiberglass, all's i need to do first is finish fairing the stern and cut the water compartment holes. After that its basically, finish the hull, build some structure, then months of details. Includeing about a mile of scratchbuilt railings....argggggg. I'm hopeing with the other 2 or 3 projects planned already for next year i can have this project sailing at least by july. I was hopeing to make this comeing years Port Huron event but i am not betting on it. CG Bob, is our scale director at our club, and was at Port Huron last year. he said it was pretty nice. Talk to you later dude.

[Tregurtha1013]

Hey Scott, you guys comeing down to Elyria this year with some of those Ore boats. That would diffenitely impress some folks around here. I am the only person i know who could take a 6 month project and turn it into a 3 year project without doing anything. LOL! Thats basically what i've done to this dam ore boat. I have the hull basically ready to fiberglass, all's i need to do first is finish fairing the stern and cut the water compartment holes. After that its basically, finish the hull, build some structure, then months of details. Includeing about a mile of scratchbuilt railings....argggggg. I'm hopeing with the other 2 or 3 projects planned already for next year i can have this project sailing at least by july. I was hopeing to make this comeing years Port Huron event but i am not betting on it. CG Bob, is our scale director at our club, and was at Port Huron last year. he said it was pretty nice. Talk to you later dude.


With any luck maybe a couple of us can get down there. I hope to have the Tregurtha done except for details by spring. Don't feel bad, i should be much farther than I am on this thing. Its been a year and a half for me, i screwed up all sorts of crap as this is the first giant boat i've built. My fiberglass is done and have almost finished sanding it smooth. Paint isn't far away.

You can get HO scale railing, found some at the local hobby shop that is perfect for the tube railing around the cabin areas. just use stantions and wire for the spar deck rail, thats what the real ones are anyway.

[OhioMike]

Yea, i have buying the local Hobby-town out of their HO scale railing segments with just the idea you suggested. Use those sections to do more accurate looking railings around the pilot house, etc., and brass stantions and brass wire railing for the main deck. Tack it at the forward end, then stretch it aft, wrapping around each stantion as you go and a touch of solder. Dam, i need three hands! LOL. If not in our neck of the woods, maybe we'll catch you at Port Huron. I have been following your progress on the Tregurtha on the Great lakes modeling association web site for some time now. Look forward to seeing her. Best of luck Scott.
Mike

[Tregurtha1013]

Yea, i have buying the local Hobby-town out of their HO scale railing segments with just the idea you suggested. Use those sections to do more accurate looking railings around the pilot house, etc., and brass stantions and brass wire railing for the main deck. Tack it at the forward end, then stretch it aft, wrapping around each stantion as you go and a touch of solder. Dam, i need three hands! LOL. If not in our neck of the woods, maybe we'll catch you at Port Huron. I have been following your progress on the Tregurtha on the Great lakes modeling association web site for some time now. Look forward to seeing her. Best of luck Scott.
Mike

Mike,

Bluejackets has these brass stantions with three holes in them, one for each wire. You don't have to solder at each stantion, nor do you have to wrap it around. That is exactly how the spar deck fence rail is on the real ones. I've used these on the smaller scale boats i've built, i'm sure i'll be able to find them in HO.

If you come up for the Port Huron show i'll be there. Last year was pretty good, but this year will be better since we learned some things from last year.

SBT

[CG Bob]

When will the Port Huron show be held?

[Tregurtha1013]

When will the Port Huron show be held?

It will once again be the first weekend of June. That puts it on June 4th this year. Hope to see you there again Bob.

SBT

[Beez]

Well I guess I'm a little late to this topic but I recently built a barge for my 1/24 scale tug using the technique like OhioMike. Simple wood working construction using pine for the sides & bulkheads and luan for the top and bottom all coated with West systems epoxy resin. The holes on the bottom are big enough and close to the edge so I can get my hand in there to easily carry it. The size is about 24" x 55", not sure off the top of my head and it is about 7" deep, I had to put a mid deck in to mount my floatation (an old Morey boogie board cut into pieces). It's not the lightest thing to carry but not too bad, and I don't need to bring a bunch of weights to the pond or fill the thing with water. I just put it in the water and it sinks down to the waterline. When I take it out, all the water drains out of the holes and I'm ready to go.

[arrow5]

I`ve been reading this thread with some interest (and recognise Nigel from a Titanic site , hello again Nige !) I`m lumbered with an ex Royal Navy recruiting stage-prop that I`ve put a bottom on and made sail-able. It is about 1/24th scale making it 31ft long and 1 1/2tons so doesnt really fit in this Forum but the problems with ballasting is. The free-flooding idea has it limitations too, you still have to lift the damn thing clear of the surface to let the ballast water escape. In my case that equals six one inch holes (one in each floodable compartment) It take forever to drain by gravity. How long are you prepared to crouch over the pond-side bent double holding your 12 footer? My solution is part flood and part loose containers( 20 5 gallon plastic containers). They can be lifted out and tipped over the side thus lightening the boat a good bit. I am booked in for hernia operation this month so maybe there is a flaw in my system but for your size boats it might be worth considering. My boat displaces about 4 tons, an awful lot of water. While I`m posting ,if anybody knows of any other very large (manned) model boats I love to hear about them.

[OhioMike]

Theres a pretty cool looking WWII german cruiser, i believe the Graf Spee over at the Modelwarships underway web site. I believe he powers that with an outboard motor if i remember correctly. Climbs right in and goes! Look in their gallery for photos of her. They have photos of this one as well i believe, unless theres 2 of you folks climbing into thru deck cruisers?

[Ghost 2501]

1/24th scale carrier, j***s c****t, arrow!!!!!!

can you bring it to the potteries model boat club navy day?????

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Very nice, I don't suppose you need a boat license to sail that carrier around?
I would imagine you could get some 350gpm bilge pumps from the sporting good store, or boating supply shop, and pump the water in and out of your holding tanks.
Especially since you need so much. What do you trailer that thing on?

I would love to push that around with a tug, or my fire boat.
Can you sail it across the pond, throught the canal, and over to the West coast of the US? I would take the time to drive and meet you if you can get it that far. ;)

[arrow5]

Ohio Mike, its the same one as on WMU, and is manned just like the Graf Spee from Maine (also a 5hp outboard hidden in box aft of driver) . Umi, in the UK we only need a powerboat licence on certain inland waterways and lakes. It is carried on a normal launching trailer on the road. It has done "the canal" coast to coast but not the one you mean (Panama),only the Caledonian Canal in Scotland so far! The happy smiler in the pic is controlling one of the tugs, I`m ashore taking the pic. A team of six 1/32nd scale tugs took her up a length of the Shropshire Union Canal in England , turned her and brought her back to the same spot. Best bit of model tugging I`ve ever seen. No bumps , scrapes or hitches. Very professional by a dedicated team. Yes bilge pumps are the obvious way to go, just havent scatched-up enough cash to invest...no not really I spend my cash on my first love... model aircraft ! Dont think I`m ready to "cross the pond" yet but got closest when I went 3 miles out on the Irish Sea to meet an American destroyer. More details on www.warshipmodelsunderway.com page 6 in the Gallery, Graf Spee is on page 13. Ghost, PM me about Potteries Navy Day