any one fly gliders at a power feild?

[kewhite]

I got highstart tubing and i launch about 5 yards west of the runway upwind of where people stand towrds the south. ,they are use to me,, i will read all replies and stories and will comment under youre reply . www.highstart.blogspot.com

[dephela]

I used to practice F3b at my power field. I had the fastest plane there! I still fly r/c HLG and free flight there but have a better field to do the F3b practice at. No loss, it's no fun hearing the engines moaning as you soar. Yeah, I still fly power there too.

[TLyttle]

Back when I had hair, we used to fly at a power field, until booted off because of fequencies, or lack of them. "Hey, you've had my peg for almost 20min now! Dump it in, I wanna fly!" was a frequent comment, usually at 120db or so. Cure, of course, was a glider field; it was easier to get (no noise), easier to keep, easier to maintain than a power field. It is still there, power field has moved a half-dozen times...

[webguyjv]

Since this is a power field, I'm assuming you used a winch or hi-start. Is that true?

Did you have to work out some arrangement to set up the winch away from the runway so as not to slow down the power planes with their takeoff lines?

I've seen some sites where they share power planes and helis, and they seem to section off different pieces of land for the different types of takeoffs. Since I mostly fly on the slope, I'm just curious.

Happy Flying ;-)

Webguyjv

[ejett]

I fly with the other Meridian Aeromodelers at a tiny power field. They tolerate me. I set my highstart (short, small field highstart) up just on the far side of the runway in the "rough". I mostly try to fly early (10:00AM - 1:00 PM) before the field fills up with power guys and limit flights after they are there. They are, so far, strangely reluctant to fly while I am up.

I try not to wear out my welcome there. About 3 weeks ago, I went out on a Saturday afternoon and there were about 4 guys there. I put out my high start and launched my Aquila, flying for 18 minutes. They were kinda open-mouthed that I could stay up that long with a 200' launch. I've seen them like that before. That was my only flight that day to keep from hogging the airspace; they don't want to fly when I'm up.

I am looking for a larger field I where I can fly my sailplanes, but have not gotten any permissions yet.

EJ

[dephela]

Since this is a power field, I'm assuming you used a winch or hi-start. Is that true? Webguyjv

The power fliers use the "back of the field and fly over swamp. The field to the rear of their flightline is large enough to set up a full winch line, or highstart in any direction. Frequency control is the biggest problem, one must be diligent and pay attention to traffic[new fliers showing up].

Some of the power guys have piggybacked and aerotowed GL's! This field gets used for just about everything, FAC, rocketry, etc. Glo but no "gas".

[SCOTTNSC]

I fly at a glow feild,not to much trouble,but"us" e-power and glider fliers seem to be takeing over,lol.most of us have or have had glow/gassers.I just like going to the feild and flying,not trying to start a stuborn motor..cleaning up,ect.
we do have control pins..you cant fly without the pin,that way you cant get shot down.
it's allso fun to wach the glow guys dodge the hi-start!

[webguyjv]

I feel dumb cause I seem to be transfixed by all of the threads started by Keith on this same topic. If memory serves, this thread and one other constitute two same-topic threads here in the Thermal forum; there is one thread in the slope forum that was recently closed by the moderator; and I think there is one thread in the Sailplane Talk forum.

I don't know why, but I seem to keep obsessing on these topical threads. I shold have the good sense to just read the other threads in the Sailplane forums and move along, but I keep on opening these threads up when I see new posts. Bad habit on my part, I admit.

All of that notwhithstanding, I can't help thinking that it would saure be great if there were any fliers that reside in the same part of the US as Keith, and they could one day visit him at his field, and watch his technique. I think one of the veteran posters in these forums would be a great asset to us readers in explaining this phenomenon that Keith seems to be so happy about.

As I continue to read these new posts, I go from lucid moments to falling back into a confused state. Kind of like watching my kids grow up - just when you think you have them figured out, you learn you're once again confused. Hahaha :D

Is there any chance that one of you RCGroups veterans can visit Keith at his site and witness this, and give us a post to clarify?

Happy Flying ;-)

Webguyjv

[Masterpiece]

Hey,

I fly at a power field too, BUT I usually fly after 12 midday when all the power flyers pack up, leaving the place to myself. Works well for everybody. 7 daz a week too :)

[rocketman47]

I fly scale sailplanes. Years back when also flew power(slimers) and belonged to our local club here in Southern OR, we set up a winch and I put on quite a show with my Robbe ASH-26. To see the expression on those faces was priceless!

Randy

[TLyttle]

Always interesting to mix&match on a field; my experience has to do with the aforementioned reluctance of power fliers to see a frequency tied up for 20min or more. We had a couple of guys show up with slopers at the thermal field; these were the old big-wing models (Pink Lady? whatever) and launched off the winch. What a show! It was one of those days when thermals were everywhere, and the slopers were fast enough to hunt big areas, and the found lots of lift as they were up for 1/2hr or more. Once into a trashlifter, they would then wring out the model. Fun!

[AustinTatious]

All of that notwhithstanding, I can't help thinking that it would saure be great if there were any fliers that reside in the same part of the US as Keith, and they could one day visit him at his field, and watch his technique. I think one of the veteran posters in these forums would be a great asset to us readers in explaining this phenomenon that Keith seems to be so happy about.

i watch Kieth fly on a regular basis... what is it you are wanting to knwo about how he flies? are you asking about the thermal DS-ing?

IF so, yes it is quite possible. I dont knwo if it is happening or not when he is flying, but he goes up!

Keith flies all day every day.. noone has a glider in the air per week more than him... in all seriousness.

He does not like to "thermal turn" Instead he finds lift and "sweeps" back and fourth in a big "U" shpped fashion, basically doing stall turns at each side...He pulls up HARD at the bottom and zooms upwards gaining altitude each time and hauling butt at the bottom...

I feel I should also mention that he flies a VERY heavy 100 inch glider with an RG15 airfoil. He launches it with a short piece of rubber and never gets more than 200 feet on a launch.. in fact he is lucky if he gets that. ve seen him use a winch abotu twice in the 3 years I have known him.

He is very good at working low level lift and gaining altitude. I dont know if ther eis actually DS- occuring when he flies, I jsut know it is different than how I fly and he goes up jsut as well.

I know what he is saying Is possible.. and I know if you knew for sure where the "boundry" was between the lift and the sink, you could DS-them everytime.. THe problem is that you can only GUESS where that boundry is and therefore you will not hit the effect every time.

Keith dosent really come out to compete at the local monthly contest..> i have no doubt that if he did he could do well and make times... landing with the lead sled he flies is a different story though!

[webguyjv]

I was in the RCGroups chatroom on Friday night, and guess who came in - Keith! Keith mentioned that you fly at his flying site, and I was telling him that it would be great to get another flyer's perspective on what he's doing. You did an excellent job in your post, Austin. I now feel I completely understand what Keith is doing. It sounds like fun.

BTW, in your explanation...

...Instead he finds lift and "sweeps" back and fourth in a big "U" shpped fashion, basically doing stall turns at each side...He pulls up HARD at the bottom and zooms upwards gaining altitude each time and hauling butt at the bottom...

...Is this basically the same maneuver as a "half-pipe" or "pump"?

Interesting.

It sounds like Keith is very accomplished at working the lift. I admire him in that I'm much too lazy for that. I start on the slope, allowing mother nature to take me up. I'm not sure I could do very well off a bungee or hi-start.

Thanks again for the explanation, Austin.

Happy Flying ;-)

Webguyjv

[AustinTatious]

Is this basically the same maneuver as a "half-pipe" or "pump"?


yes exaclty.. however if he is gettin a DS effect, that means that in his downline, he is not in the lift and thus his decent is notslowed by it... HE may be buildign up speed in the sink, then entering the lift to get a burst of airspeed, then zooming upwards.

[kewhite]

thats it..i think

[Radioguy]

Hi Folks:

I used to fly sailplanes at a power field fairly often but that was a very long time ago and based on my consistently negative experience, it is not something I'd do again unless there were zero alternatives. They never seemed to mix well.

It would start with where to lay out the high start .... try as hard as I may, I could never find an into-wind spot that didn't get fouled in some way at least once in a flying session.

Either people were landing and tangling the line in a prop, or walking to retrieve a model that had landed in the weeds well out of the normal landing area and they'd walk through the line and drag it or trip while carrying their plane and bust it... or despite many "briefings" on my required launch procedure, somebody would try a take-off at the same time as the line and chute were touching down in the flying area before it could be retrieved and end up with the mono wrapped around the prop hub about an inch deep and a busted plane.. .or one of the unsupervised kids is walking around and "finds" something out in the weeds ... it was my surgical tubing screw-in ... and he pulls it out and drags it back to show dad ..... or the wandering dog that chewed through my surgical tubing ....the stories just go on and on.

Next would be the frequency issue. Far too often I'd be on the same channel as one of the hotter flyers who wanted to be in the air for 50 of every 60 minutes on "his" channel. When I'd be doing a thermal flight longer than 7 minutes they would get antsy and you'd start to hear muttered under their breath grumblings about being "an air hog" because they felt I should just launch and do a continous glide down from release height to the ground that should take maybe 4 minutes at the tops in still air and then not fly for another hour or so.

Then would come the time for my approach and landing which would frequently lead to some kind of antics because I had no go-around capability and they never seemed to get the idea of that whole concept and would be on approach at the same time or doing high speed low passes while I'm fighting some heavy turbulence and trying to not break the airframe at 15 ft off the deck bouncing around like a bubble on the ocean.

Generally the power guys didn't seem to have much knowlege of how an airplane can possibly fly without a throttle being involved.

While I really and truly enjoyed the social aspect of the local club at the time and they were great friends, I eventually found an open area at a school and flew by myself and turned in some very nice flights. Most of the time nobody knew I was flying there. I still continued to do a lot of beer drinking with them and had a million laughs. Unfortunately the two types of flying are not really compatable.

Regards,
Lee Smith

[stewy2]

I fly at a power field. In fact I am the club secretary. I do fly slimers there, (currently a 100inch Butterfly). My first love has always been sailplanes. I started with a Gentle Lady in the early eighties.
Unless you rubberband a powerpod to the top side of your wing, or provide some other limitted run motive force, you will simply not fly there. Histarts are not tolerated at all. I just wish I could find some guys flying sailplanes near me. The only other place near me that I know of is another power club that gives tuesday mornings to the gliders. They have a waiting list to join and the dues are too high, so scratch that.

By the way, I have to holler "Dead stick!" for every landing. You should see the power guys scramble when they hear that. Some come over to watch as though they don't understand what holds it up, and the rest duck for cover. :D

Karl

[TLyttle]

Yup, "Dead Stick!" works real well. I used to do that when I was flying SYS, particularly when there was memebers from the Left Circuits Only model club showed up. Because I was usually flying fast, small, 1/2A models, when I yelled that the regulars wouldn't even look up, but the LCO guys would be instantly inside their cars or hiding under pickups...

Stewy2, keep looking for unlikely places to fly. The power guys simply don't have the choices that sailplaners do, and advertise for other fliers. Once you find a good field, watch out for the power fliers: they like to think that just because you are flying there, they can too, then no one flies there. Good luck!

[Neil Walker]

TLyttle - Keremeos huh? Nice area - I used to spend winters as a ski bum up at Apex alpine... I bet there are lots of good slope areas around there! Not much where I am (Victoria).

The flying types don't seem to mix much at all where I am. I'm quite new to the hobby so still haven't really figured it all out but I gather there's some egos and politics involved. The thermal guys have a private field (farmer's permission) that you have to belong to their club and have a MAAC membership (Canadian version of AMA) to fly at. Big field, great place. The power guys have their own field fairly close by but I understand are constantly suffering complaints about noise. There's another group of mostly park flyers at another smaller "informal" field that has the odd heli at it. And there's one decent spot for slope but in a VERY crowded area that strikes me as unsafe - was down there the other night and someone was screaming around with a hotliner, and looking around at all the people and dogs I found myself feeling veerrrrry uneasy about it. Don't think I'll be flying there.

The odd thing is that talking to any of the groups they're all extremely nice guys, everyone I've talked to so far has been great, but whenever you bring up one of the other groups there's a bit of an uncomfrotable silence... or a few of the more talkative ones actually bad-mouth them. I gather there was some kind of big rift that happened a few years ago when they all flew together. It's all very odd to me because as I said I'm new to the hobby and all aspects of R/C, in fact pretty much anything that moves through the air, period, fascinates me - I also have a large collection of kites. Some evenings if it's too windy for me to fly anything I just go to the beach and watch the seagulls showing me how it's really done. I go to all the different spots and check out what's going on and it's weird to me to find people not interested in other aspects of the hobby, but for the most part it's so far been one of the friendliest groups of people I've ever met, even if they have their little sub-groups that don't mingle.

[AustinTatious]

Well,

It seems there has always been somewhat of a fued or rift between power and thermal fliers....I dont know why it is that way. I think any aspect of R/C is enjoyable ....

Im not saying its the Power fliers fault, but they seem to have this Idea that "scince we cant" fly power, we fly little ol gliders. They think they are cheap, low performance, entry level Toys. Not all but many see it that way... We just take up perfectly good airspace and Freq's. Whats really agrivating is when a powere guy see's a sailplane flying and then wants to join in the flying at "The new field" They "found".

Now the Sailplane pilots seem to think that They are a bit superior and more elegant in what they do... I dont disagree ;) but I also do not treat power guys in a way that lets them know I feel that way.

A friend of mine did an "informal" survey of a bunch of R/C pilots...He found that the average length of involvment in the Hobby for power fliers was 5 years. The average for sailplane pilots was along the lines of 50+ years!

I dont know what to make of this information, It may have nothing to do with the fued, it may not even be accurate. You do have to factor in all the Power flks that get involved for a monthor two then quit... I havent seen that happen as much with Sailplane fliers... They tend to get deeper... and deeper ... and deeper... ect...

Im 24 and have 15 years in the hobby already.... I dont see myself stopping for anything less than cut off thumbs or blindness (knock on wood). Ive only in the last year started flying competitivly and really enjoying the company of other sailplane enthusiast... I used to fly all by myself, eventaully found a powere field and flew gliders when I had a chance.. I even got several powerefliers flying Zagis at a slope with me ( back before Zagis had Carbon OR motors!)

I do feel that Gas models arent long for this world.. The way thing are, it will only take a few noise complaints to shut down a field... Houseing developments shut down REAL airports due to noise and space... what should stop them from shutting down an R/C field ?

[Neil Walker]

Well,

A friend of mine did an "informal" survey of a bunch of R/C pilots...He found that the average length of involvment in the Hobby for power fliers was 5 years. The average for sailplane pilots was along the lines of 50+ years!


That definitely is what I've seen - if you limit the glider guys to thermal. I got into the hobby with my father (who's now 70+) and he was figuring he'd be surrounded by a bunch of "young bucks", as he would say. Not even close! Out at the thermal field he's among his peer group and I'm the oddball at a chipper 34 :)

[TLyttle]

Right on, both of you; most of the glider guys usually fly SYS or rubber, both of which require a different set of skills from the big fuel guys. One guy has been building using a hot glue gun, then compensates for the extra weight with a larger engine; try that with a sailplane!

As far as politics are concerned, I have flown in various large communities, and found the Victoria situation to be "normal", with the power guys simply not able to grasp the fact that sailplanes are "inferior" because of the lack of investment or whatever other reason they invent. If you are interested in the full story behind the rift in Victoria, Neil, e-mail me kpa@img.net and I'll fill you in on the long story regarding the birth of the Pacific Island Soaring Society Of Flying Fools (you do the initials yourself).

Meantime, there are lots of other, better places for slope there, and I recommend getting in with the electric guys at Quickbottom Park: good group, few egos, fly most of the time.

[webguyjv]

...And I think it's because I almost always fly at slope soaring sites.

The closest I ever got to flying at a club site was flying at Torrey Pines Glider Port - but I flew as a guest of a very nice member. I was indeed surprised to see the rules that they adhere to. In retrospect, I can see that those rules serve those guys well (safety, consideration, etc...).

But I think I'm immune as it seems all of the slope sites I fly at are on public lands, and therefore are usually at the behest of a great, long-standing relationship with park officials. Some wise glider pilot paved the way (maybe 20 or 30 years ago) for us to all fly there today. And for that reason, everyone seems to get along.

At these sites we have everything from the brand new pilot, that just finished her first Zagi, to the novice, that has several different planes and still asks lots of questions (that's me), to the seasoned veteran that loves to fly and has lots of expensive beauties sitting on the ground, to the competitive professional (some of our local guys fly for the US FAI Teams).

All of these guys and gals are flying different types of planes. I guess the one thing they all have in common is that none have motors (except for the dead-calm days when everyone throws an e-glider in the trunk just in case).

I'm enviuos of that guy over there that just took first place at the ISR in Davenport, and I'm envious of that guy that might be the next DS record holder. But both of those guys have probably helped me to fix a pushrod, or to show me how to core a thermal.

I guess I'm lucky that I don't see some of the stuff you guys have been mentioning.

Happy Flying ;-)

Webguyjv

[Soarbird]

Pleased to see that we are not "abnormal" here is South Africa. Despite numerous efforts to fly with the power guys - who are a great bunch of guys when not flying - mixing gliding with power just does not seem to work. :confused:

The same old, same old problems crop up, winch lines across thier runway. We have a 100m runway but perish the thought if you so much as use 10m of it!

We are fortunate to have two runways at roughly 90 degrees to one another so logic would say that everyone would use the runway corresponding to the wind direction. Think again :( (Ever tried winch launching with a 90 degree cross wind? :eek: )

Anyway that's my 2c worth and what the hell, it's Friday and a weekend to look forward to. If the gale force winds let up a bit, may just get some stick time in. If not, just sit around at the field and chat to all thos unfriendly power guys. ;)

[Goinav8n]

I just started flying at a power field. They are a great group. I just love all the advise I get "Because I fly Gliders" You know they are so easy. I took my DLG out and gave it a hand toss just for a trim check. When I wound up and did the DLG throw I heard the gasp as they couldnt believe how high it got. Then It was a 15 min flight. All I said was "I dont even have to wipe it off"

I also take my Zip launcher out. Its designed for landing practice and for working light lift. I keep getting comments like." If you put more line on it you might get higher launches" Then I have to explain about its just for practice. After a while they take a good look at the sailplanes and find that they have Kevlar Carbon etc. they start asking questions. Some of them admitt they didnt know they were so advanced

So my purpose now is to educate anyone who wants to know. Its fun letting them fly the DLG and land 50 feet away. I tell them the object is to catch it. This one I love. "Well you didnt say that" Remember they have been watching for about 30 mins. After 5-6 attempts they start getting it. Its fun to listen to the comments and even better to see a power guy not have the throttle to help him get back.

Remember its a glider it easy.............

Yea right

Jeff

[AustinTatious]

Hehe, Yea, Gliders are for begginers that cant handle a motor :)

[capt soap]

Yea,not anymore,the last time the power guy's thought I ought to fly the glider in the Pattern!! And dont fly so high, and dont fly so far away, chasing thermals,,,,,,no more!!! :eek:

[kewhite]

my freind ken flew his glider in the pattern one day and one power plane swerved to miss it and hit another power plane instead waaam!!! it was funny,,

[WGH]

Fly at a slimer field??? Risk getting a film of castor oil on my glider??? No Way !!!

[kewhite]

I looked at a map of the ama feild they have a glider area south of thr power area, i sent them and email once and i dont think an ama feild can stop you from flying gliders if you really want to,,and i use a short fast launcher parrallel to the runway at the upwind end and it seems to be the best mix cause no one has ever tripped on it cause its 100ft upwind of where they are standing and its west of the runway about 5 yards.

[mike85gn]

Since I live in the prairies, there is no lack of BIG open areas to fly at. Power guys always fly from the same field, and I get along with them fine as I flew powered planes for a while, but I've always preferred sailplanes to my powered planes. Got rid of some fine aircraft, but I just didn't feel the need for them anymore. I usually fly my Spectra and Spirit 100 from some nearby public parks where a lot of low-power rocket guys fly from and we get along well, the rockets have a very small footprint with their launchers and we fly far enough away that a thousand feet between our gliders in the air and their rockets is not abnormal. Now that I have a Fling, I just go behind the nearby school and chuck it into the air. Good fun!