propless idea fo thrust

[devilscries]

not sure where this goes but has anyone ever made one of those plastic or cup football-like things that is just a tube that when thrown in a spiral goes super far. well what if u made a system that make a tube spin. what would happen? i don't know anything how those things work, so this maybe pointless but it was just a question.

[devilscries]

here's what im talking about
http://www.boysstuff.co.uk/product.asp?id=1009

[devilscries]

here's the actual site for the company that makes them
http://www.x-zylo.com/

[epilot]

Thrust comes from the force you apply when throwing it. The rotation merely helps stabilise it thus making it fly further. Think about it.

Michael

[devilscries]

what about a glider like this???
of course it would have to be bungeed

[devilscries]

what if there were little rotors on it. everthing would have to be inside the large ring or else it would be a flying EDF almost. that would be pretty cool seeing a spinning ring fly by at the field.

[epilot]

How would you control it? It is spinning, remember.

Michael

[devilscries]

not the inside, it ould b staionary and have some sort of rudders.
i'll use my imagination and try and draw up some pics

[devilscries]

ok it took me awhile and i still havn't added the tailpiece where the control surfaces will go but i got a rough drawing of it in solidworks i'm going to see if i can export it as a specific file type what can you guys open?

[devilscries]

can you open .prt or .sldprt??? if nothing else i got some high quality .tif images cause the jpeg sux

[Andy W]

Just post a screen shot (jpg) of the image in your software.
..a

[devilscries]

its too crappy but here it is :D :eek: :cool: :rolleyes:

[devilscries]

the center stays while the ring spins. the blades are just to show wherethey go(not how many or anthing else just to show they go on the ring.

[Andy W]

No thrust will be generated.
..a

[devilscries]

y not?
there are blades on the ring. i just put those 4 cause i needed to show that there were blades

[devilscries]

does this make sense?
what im saying is the thrust given by the prop at highest can only be proportional to the thrust or speed os the wind know what i mean in that case it does nothing unless their is a drop in wind then it will keep the plane going

[birdofprey]

You can't get something for nothing. Those fins/blades that are on the outside are drag producing devices (parasite drag) and only rotate because of the airflow across them that generates lift. In this case, that lift is transferred to rotation of the ring. By your theory, a wind-milling prop would create thrust. In reality, it is nothing but pure drag. If you install a motor in the center to power your un-ducted fan, you have a massive torque problem, and have already departed from your goal of a true dynamo or perpetual motion.

As epilot said, the thrust you have to work with is from the launch. Everything else (lift and its direct byproduct induced drag, parasite drag which is all the drag that is not related to the generation of lift, and gravity that is overcome by the lift that is generated by the application of thrust) is a byproduct of thrust. Without sufficient thrust being generated to, at a minimum, balance these additional forces, your craft will descend back to the ground. Any flight time will be due to potential energy that is stored during the launch and is measured by the altitude achieved. This energy is then released as kinetic energy during the glide until all kinetic energy is used and the end result is that gravity and drag win, and your plane is back on the ground.

OK, so maybe that is not the best description of the forces at work (and I left a bunch), but it all boils down to the fact as first stated...You can't get something for nothing.


Justin

[devilscries]

sorry for the confusion but i changed it to a motorized

[devilscries]

p.s. thats statement wasn't mine it was a friends, just wanted to c if it mad sense

[vintage1]

Actually there is some way of doing thrust without using a motor - MHD. you e.g. make the air conductive and then pass current through it and have a linear motor wound outside a tube. Bit like a rail gun.

[birdofprey]

Ahh...The ion drive...it's still a motor, but without the torque (and other moving parts). :cool:

Justin

[devilscries]

kool but i was just thinking af the ring cause it acts like a gyroscope and gives more distance with less torque and more stability

[devilscries]

P.S. vintage is right. there is no prop so it would b propless.

[devilscries]

what could i add that spins in tha opposite direction that wuld balance out the torque?

[birdofprey]

:confused:

[epilot]

Green Kryptonite should do the trick ;)

Michael

[devilscries]

like cutting the ring in 2 and reversing one half and make it counter rotaing with two motors in parallel

[birdofprey]

:confused:like cutting the ring in 2 and reversing one half and make it counter rotaing with two motors in parallel

I was refering to several of your posts all at once.

However, I do think that epilot may be on to something here.

epilot, do you thik we could couple your Green Kryptonite to my anti gravity vortex generator and then power vintage1's Ion Drive to make this thing work???
Might be better than warp drive or wormholes :cool:

[devilscries]

im positive your kidding but it sounds like it might actually work.

[epilot]

Not "my" green Kryptonite. I never touch the stuff - makes me go weak.

Now wormholes, there's an interesting idea. Maybe we could stuff this thread into one.

Michael

[devilscries]

hmmm yeah stuff the posts with quesitions in the worm hole and posts with answers come out

[MRGaudet]

its too crappy but here it is :D :eek: :cool: :rolleyes:

Hey Devilscries. That is a buh-rilliant design. Looks like the face-on view is all but invisible. The vertical ringwing tends to do that. Quite stealth-y. :eek:

Wanna see what Plillip Carter is doing?

Here's a link to HummingBird. http://www.esotec.co.nz/hb/HTML/Structures_F.html

Phillip is a big ringwing fan. :cool:

Mike

Wanna cheap thrill? Check out the video at www.skyaak.blogspot.com

[Accu157]

It'd work, if you had a motor driving the spinning ring, and had something to counteract the torque.... there'd be a whole lot of torque.

[Troy]

Sorta like UAV's flying Coke Can...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601274

[xtian999]

Reminds me of the French annular wing experimental aircraft from the 1960's.