Aerial Photography - is this man worth buying from or is he a crook?

[X5]

I have been trying to research out buying a helicopter camera system for
video and stills, I see the name John Ohnemus and his company (Airfoil)
appearing on a few forums. I have followed the link below for a few days, I
am not sure if the guy is a crook and if its worth buying from his company
in the US.

He wants $8100 for a complete system (which seems reasonable) but the forum
talks of non delivery to Denmark and lots of problems after that which he
seems to want to wash his hand off. His way of dealing with a problem seems
to be to threaten legal action then boast about his past wins.

He also seems hell bent on attacking Mike Mas, someone who's abilities I
respect a great deal. For those who don't know he was the guy who first
developed V curve flying and was one of the top pilots in the world in the
80's and early 90's. He is also a real gentleman, I have talked to him at
length in the past, he is very modest yet willing to help share his
knowledge without being big headed.

Reading the thread John seems to change his story by the day.

http://www.rotory.com/ubbthreads/showflat.phpCat=&Board=aer1&Number=47013&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=8&vc=1&PHPSESSID=

Are there any other companies people would recommend?

[X5]

Sorry try this link -its entiled Warning Theft in progress. Its a long post
but worth the read.

http://www.rotory.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=aer1&Number=45239&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

[Joe Bill]

I've read about 3 pages of story in the link you provided. No matter the
outcome, his massive delay in shipping (June 3) after receipt of funds (Feb
9) after stating the system would be shipped within a week receiving the
money just screams (to me) "Stay away unless you can risk losing $8100!!!"

I think your asking the question you asked implies you have enough doubt
that I'd suggest finding an alternate company. If you were in the States
you'd be better protected legally in case he screws you over, but if you're
in the U.K. then I think you'd be running a serious risk.

An alternate approach to consider would be to travel to Illinois and take
receipt of the system when you pay him and then arrange shipment home
yourself. I'm not sure I could ever send that much money to an overseas
company without worrying to death about getting screwed. Especially if
after sending the money and still 3+ months later the item hasn't shipped.

At a minimum I'd want to put it on a major credit card where I can dispute
the charge if I never receive the system (I recently had to put this to use
after getting screwed on eBay).

My 2 cents worth.


"X5" <keepmespamfree@spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40fa804b$0$7135$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> I have been trying to research out buying a helicopter camera system for
> video and stills, I see the name John Ohnemus and his company (Airfoil)
> appearing on a few forums. I have followed the link below for a few days,
I
> am not sure if the guy is a crook and if its worth buying from his company
> in the US.
>
> He wants $8100 for a complete system (which seems reasonable) but the
forum
> talks of non delivery to Denmark and lots of problems after that which he
> seems to want to wash his hand off. His way of dealing with a problem
seems
> to be to threaten legal action then boast about his past wins.
>
> He also seems hell bent on attacking Mike Mas, someone who's abilities I
> respect a great deal. For those who don't know he was the guy who first
> developed V curve flying and was one of the top pilots in the world in the
> 80's and early 90's. He is also a real gentleman, I have talked to him at
> length in the past, he is very modest yet willing to help share his
> knowledge without being big headed.
>
> Reading the thread John seems to change his story by the day.
>
>
http://www.rotory.com/ubbthreads/showflat.phpCat=&Board=aer1&Number=47013&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=8&vc=1&PHPSESSID=
>
> Are there any other companies people would recommend?
>
>

[Patrick Free]

In article <40fa804b$0$7135$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
keepmespamfree@spam.co.uk says...
> I have been trying to research out buying a helicopter camera system for
> video and stills, I see the name John Ohnemus and his company (Airfoil)
> appearing on a few forums. I have followed the link below for a few days, I
> am not sure if the guy is a crook and if its worth buying from his company
> in the US.
>
>
John is a real stand-up guy. I have seen dozens of people back him up
in this forum and others. I bought a system from him and have been
really happy with it. I wouldn't put too much stock in this particular
thread.

[X5]

The thread has had over 3200 views, my problem is that John keeps on saying
things which are contradictory to what he has said previously.

I want to minimise the risk of loosing $8100 like the guy seems to have done
in Denmark, I just want to find out how this guy stacks up. I have had some
negative feedback which makes me cautious.

In the link John is given the chance to back up his claims yet he seems to
avoid every chance, instead he just tells everyone how good he is and how
he's doing so well in direct competion with the people he's selling his
system to.

I have just searched John Ohnemus and Airfoil and cannot find any postings
about him in this user group (or any other) the search goes back to 1993. I
can find him posted on a couple of forums but thats it. I understand John
has been in business 9 years. Please let us know what forums?

How far is Austin from John, could you be John himself?


"Patrick Free" <not@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b64dee4f5c250119896ce@news-server.austin.rr.com...
> In article <40fa804b$0$7135$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
> keepmespamfree@spam.co.uk says...
> > I have been trying to research out buying a helicopter camera system for
> > video and stills, I see the name John Ohnemus and his company (Airfoil)
> > appearing on a few forums. I have followed the link below for a few
days, I
> > am not sure if the guy is a crook and if its worth buying from his
company
> > in the US.
> >
> >
> John is a real stand-up guy. I have seen dozens of people back him up
> in this forum and others. I bought a system from him and have been
> really happy with it. I wouldn't put too much stock in this particular
> thread.
>

[Patrick Free]

In article <40fb78b2$0$7134$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
keepmespamfree@spam.co.uk says...
> The thread has had over 3200 views, my problem is that John keeps on saying
> things which are contradictory to what he has said previously.
>

I agree he had not responded as well as he could in that thread. I
don't think John is all that great of a businessman, and he is also not
the most responsive man in the world. However, he is very reliable and
knowledgeable. You can see lots of commercial start-up helicopter
outfits using his system. An example of one using the still-camera
system is here: http://www.aeropixx.com . That's the same one I have.

He has shipped hundreds of systems. I have seen dozens of people come
out to defend him. There is only this one person who claims to be
defrauded, and the circumstances are suspicious at best. There are
other people that have a bone to pick with John. Some I think are just
muckrakers, but I know some of the people attacking him are competitors.

> I want to minimise the risk of loosing $8100 like the guy seems to have done
> in Denmark, I just want to find out how this guy stacks up. I have had some
> negative feedback which makes me cautious.
>

It is good to be cautious. Order with a credit card. That gives you a
lot of protection. Alternatively, same some money (about $2K-$3K I
think) and build it yourself. He is selling a turnkey system, but
helicopters are not turnkey things by any means. I think it would be
better to take your time, learn, go slow and build it yourself. That
way you could order from only "reputable" supppliers, and then maybe
just buy the camera mount from John (or someone else).

>
> How far is Austin from John, could you be John himself?
>

Do your homework. He is in Ilinios, a long way from Austin. Of course,
if you are really paranoid and delusional, then maybe I am just a paid
shill for John. Or maybe he flies down here occasionally to make fake
posts defending himself.

Patrick

[X5]

Thanks for the feedback, It was really positive until the last line.

John seems to not want to accept part payment.

The credit card seems a good idea. I was taught to be cautious..

Some of the posts defending John have been very iffy - look at Eric, Aircam
1.

I tried to look at the Mike Mas forum today, I can't, has John had it closed
down to silence the criticism? Some one has suggested that was what he was
trying to do. If that's the case I would not support that or a company which
uses bully tactics to silence criticism.
"Patrick Free" <not@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b659de7a283a4b39896d0@news-server.austin.rr.com...
> In article <40fb78b2$0$7134$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
> keepmespamfree@spam.co.uk says...
> > The thread has had over 3200 views, my problem is that John keeps on
saying
> > things which are contradictory to what he has said previously.
> >
>
> I agree he had not responded as well as he could in that thread. I
> don't think John is all that great of a businessman, and he is also not
> the most responsive man in the world. However, he is very reliable and
> knowledgeable. You can see lots of commercial start-up helicopter
> outfits using his system. An example of one using the still-camera
> system is here: http://www.aeropixx.com . That's the same one I have.
>
> He has shipped hundreds of systems. I have seen dozens of people come
> out to defend him. There is only this one person who claims to be
> defrauded, and the circumstances are suspicious at best. There are
> other people that have a bone to pick with John. Some I think are just
> muckrakers, but I know some of the people attacking him are competitors.
>
> > I want to minimise the risk of loosing $8100 like the guy seems to have
done
> > in Denmark, I just want to find out how this guy stacks up. I have had
some
> > negative feedback which makes me cautious.
> >
>
> It is good to be cautious. Order with a credit card. That gives you a
> lot of protection. Alternatively, same some money (about $2K-$3K I
> think) and build it yourself. He is selling a turnkey system, but
> helicopters are not turnkey things by any means. I think it would be
> better to take your time, learn, go slow and build it yourself. That
> way you could order from only "reputable" supppliers, and then maybe
> just buy the camera mount from John (or someone else).
>
> >
> > How far is Austin from John, could you be John himself?
> >
>
> Do your homework. He is in Ilinios, a long way from Austin. Of course,
> if you are really paranoid and delusional, then maybe I am just a paid
> shill for John. Or maybe he flies down here occasionally to make fake
> posts defending himself.
>
> Patrick

[Patrick Free]

In article <40fbfddc$1$7118$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
keepmespamfree@spam.co.uk says...
> Thanks for the feedback, It was really positive until the last line.
>
> John seems to not want to accept part payment.
>
> The credit card seems a good idea. I was taught to be cautious..
>
> Some of the posts defending John have been very iffy - look at Eric, Aircam
> 1.
>
> I tried to look at the Mike Mas forum today, I can't, has John had it closed
> down to silence the criticism? Some one has suggested that was what he was
> trying to do. If that's the case I would not support that or a company which
> uses bully tactics to silence criticism.

I noticed that too. It may just be a coincidence. Mike seemed pretty
solid about not shutting down the thread, and I don't think a libel
threat would get an ISP to shut down his site; they probably get that
kind of stuff all the time.

I agree that the whole thing with John is a little flaky. If I were
just getting started now, I would be a little uncertain as well. But I
only spent $1500, which is a far cry from $8000. The problem, though,
is that as far as I know, there are not any other vendors of turn-key
heli photography systems.

If you go here: http://runryder.com/helicopter/f25p1/ you can see a
much, much more active community of heli photographers. A lot of those
guys use Airfoil systems, and a lot don't. I would guess at least 50%
do, though. It is a good place to find out more information.

Good luck.

Patrick

[X5]

Thanks for the info
"Patrick Free" <not@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b65d12ad897f6259896d1@news-server.austin.rr.com...
> In article <40fbfddc$1$7118$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
> keepmespamfree@spam.co.uk says...
> > Thanks for the feedback, It was really positive until the last line.
> >
> > John seems to not want to accept part payment.
> >
> > The credit card seems a good idea. I was taught to be cautious..
> >
> > Some of the posts defending John have been very iffy - look at Eric,
Aircam
> > 1.
> >
> > I tried to look at the Mike Mas forum today, I can't, has John had it
closed
> > down to silence the criticism? Some one has suggested that was what he
was
> > trying to do. If that's the case I would not support that or a company
which
> > uses bully tactics to silence criticism.
>
> I noticed that too. It may just be a coincidence. Mike seemed pretty
> solid about not shutting down the thread, and I don't think a libel
> threat would get an ISP to shut down his site; they probably get that
> kind of stuff all the time.
>
> I agree that the whole thing with John is a little flaky. If I were
> just getting started now, I would be a little uncertain as well. But I
> only spent $1500, which is a far cry from $8000. The problem, though,
> is that as far as I know, there are not any other vendors of turn-key
> heli photography systems.
>
> If you go here: http://runryder.com/helicopter/f25p1/ you can see a
> much, much more active community of heli photographers. A lot of those
> guys use Airfoil systems, and a lot don't. I would guess at least 50%
> do, though. It is a good place to find out more information.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Patrick