Basic Beginner Question

[buurin]

Hi,

I am looking to buying a sailplane and have read quite a bit on the internet regarding the topic and have narrowed my choices down to(both in kit form):

Carl Goldberg Gentle Lady($45)
and
Dynaflite Daydream($35)

I have no experience in flying or building RC planes. I have read that EPP is the way to go for a beginner however I like the idea of building a wood plane, also the wood planes are cheaper. Also, people learned on wood planes for years, why shouldn't I be able to?

Not only do I have no plane building experience but I have little/no building experience at all. The extent of my building experience involves making printed circuit boards(I am a computer systems engineer) and level 1 model rockets when I was younger.

My questions(Buying):

1 - Should I save up more and get the EPP (The Gentle Foamy?)? (I really don't want to do this)

2 - Which plane should I get?

(Building)

1 - Is it ridiculous for me to even attempt to build a plane from kit form?

2 - I'm looking for an extensive list of tools I will need(assuming I have none at all)? (Adhesives(which types/how much), Sandpaper, foam rubber, etc...)

3- How long should it take me to build?

(Flying)

1 - How do I go about finding clubs in Massachusetts(western Mass to be exact. Very close to connecticut(hartford area))

2 - Any tips for teaching yourself how to fly if i cant find an instructor? (I also plan on using a home made high-start, any comments on that)

I know I asked a lot of questions and I appreciate any responses. I'm sure you've all been where I am so I am hoping you will pity me and offer up your knowledge :)


Thanks So Much!
Barron

[Foamaholic]

Those choices are good ones. I know the Great Planes Spirit is a good one and has great instructions. They assume you've never built a plane before, and tell you everything you need like tools and glue. You should be able to build one.
High starts can be tricky to get good launches. Might be better off buying one.
In any case with a balsa plane definitely find an instructor. You don't want to be playing pick-up-sticks.
It will prabably take 50 or more hours to build it.

[sailhigh]

Barron,
Actually based on all the questions you are asking, there is no reason you shouldn't turn out to be good builder and flyer. I highly recommend the Gentle Lady due to it's very forgiving flight performance, specifically designed to teach newcomers. As far as building goes, it has step by step instructions and plenty of pictures to help you along. But most of all I recommend that you find a club or someone who has soaring experiene to help you fly. If you know of no one, go to your local hobby shop and ask around.
Good Luck,
Sean

[easyed]

Barron
I too learned to fly with a gentle lady. Learing to build your own airplane also help in the repair, which will be required. I hate to think of the times mine was repaired. It was at least 20 years old when I donated it to a member of our club only to see it fly away when his batterys gave up on it. It may still be finding thermals all by itself!!
Ed

[ejett]

Barron:

Get in contact from someone with Charles River RC. You are close enough to them to take advantage of their help and expertise.

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/

EJ

[Soar_dude]

Barron
Here is my take learning to fly sailplanes. Buy a Foamie and a woodie. Build the foamie start flying while you build the woodie. It would be better if you can find someone who can teach you to fly. If you gotta go it alone BUY FOAM!!! I taught myself to fly using foam it saved me ALOT of money! Now stuff you are going ot need to build with.
1) A work table about the size of a dining room table will be good.
2) 2 sheets of foam poster board that when taped together that are bigger
then the plans for the glider. this is going ot be you building board.
3) Tools: exacto knife and spare blades. Sand paper various grades.razor
saw or small coping saw. Pins to hold the pieces of the glider to the
plans while you glue them together
4) seran wrap or plastic wrap to put over the plans to protect them from the
adhesives.
5) adhesives: Thin CA the LHS (Local Hobby shop) will know what you are
talking about. 5 minute epoxy (cures in 5 minutes). 30 minute epoxy
(cures in 30 minutes) the $1.97 syringes at walmart work well for this less
messing with measuring components
That should give you a good starting point. If you are worried about you building skils I give you a pointer that helped me out alot. I started building the little peanut and walnut sized rubberband FF planes. When you get to the point that you build one that flies descent "maybe one or two" you will be ready for something bigger. I did this and it really helped my skills working with small pieces and getting good wood joints. I agree with Foamaholic foam is the way to go to learn. There is a saying going around here on RC Groups "Learn on foam then move on!" It has worked on the folks I have taught! It is kinda cute seeing a guy walking around sucking his thumb and carrying a his foamie like a security blanket, but after awhile it gets disturbing......

Soar Dude

[evan_s]

Foam takes the worry out of getting close to the ground. You can make very harsh landings that would total the balsa plane.

I flew a gentle lady on a slope 25+ years ago, but never got very good, and had to make many repairs. When I resumed the hobby 18 months ago, I built a foam 2M plane, a MAD Aircraft Highlander. (They're out of business, now.)

A similar plane appears to be the Defiant from Northeast Sailplanes, but I have no knowledge or experience with it. I have both thermalled the Highlander and sloped it. Horrible nose-in landings and cartwheels were damage free.

While refreshing my old skills on the foamie, I built a Paragon, and have flown it since the first, of this year. It thermals way better than the foamie, of course, but building it was a lot of work.

[Red Baron]

I learnt to fly a Pheonix Models Synergy off the slope in England. Alot of EPP models (that I know) don't soar very well, and if thermal is the way you need to go, the gentle lady might be a better bet. You will get more air time with it in a single launch than you would with an EPP model.

What ever you do, try and make friends with another pilot in your area. It's the best model-insurance you can get! I spent about 2 months learning to fly by myself and only got used to digging out EPP fuselages! When I finally found another pilot, I made more progress in the first 2 mins than I had done in the previous 2 months!

Good Luck,
Conor

[twahl]

Wow, something I feel qualified to put my .02 worth in!

I learned to fly on a Gentle Lady about 20 years ago. I had more fun with that thing than you might believe, most of my fond memories are centered around that plane. It flies well, and with a minimal amount of instruction you'll be just fine. It'll take standard sized servos with no problems. I actually have an unbuilt kit in the closet, just in case.

My personal take on building vs. ARF is that if you build it yourself, you can repair it yourself. My Lady took a few repairs in it's life, and I never found it hard to do because I knew what went into it. It also makes you tend to be a little more careful flying because you have time invested in it, not just money.

My memory is foggy but as far as building goes, the best I can remember: Mine was built on a ceiling tile with the plans taped down and covered with Saran wrap. You'll need T-pins of course, an X-acto knife, some Zap and epoxy. A hinge slotting tool is useful. I actually covered mine with my mother's clothes iron. I don't remember how long it took me to build.

If you must learn to fly by yourself, I would start with some hand launches from your knees with the controls set to neutral and the radio turned off. Trim it until you get nice smooth flights. Then stand up and use the radio, starting with nothing more than flaring at landing to get some feel for it. From there fly down a small hill and tak a gentle turn or two and land. When you moce to the hi-start, make the first few real minimal stretch launches and concentrate strictly on keeping it in range and getting it safely on the ground.

That's just my thoughts, I've been away from the hobby for a while and am trying to catch up myself.

[CSI]

Barron,
Welcome to soaring. I fly both gliders and electric models and find both wonderful.
I agree with the above folks who mention the Gentle Lady. What a great plane to build and fly. Foam is fine and tuff, but I think the GL wood glider will meet your needs very well. You will learn a lot about aircraft design, building, repairing, and flying with that model.
It flies very well. Very basic design, strong, and CAN take a crash or two unless vertical in from 100 feet...then you have some major repair issues!!!

I would suggest:
Thin CA glue and bottle of kicker (fast setting spray for CA)
T-pins
Epoxy glue
Building board as suggested
Covering iron for your aircraft's covering
#64 rubber bands
Maybe an upstart hi start launching system (shorter and cheaper)
Extra patience!!!
Assorted sandpaper sheets and block hand sander

How long to build? It depends on how much time you have to spend on the model. If you could work on it each evening for an hour or so, you could probably have it build in a couple weeks. Maybe sooner if you work a few hours on the weekends!

What are your plans for radio equipment? There are several routes you can go depending on how much you want to spend and what features you feel are important.

If you have not settled on a company to buy items from, I will suggest you look at
www.towerhobbies.com
I order from other places too, but their website is very user friendly. You can use the search button on the main page ...type in "glider" "hi start" "Glue" etc. and it will direct you to all the selections available. At each selection, there is a section that lists alternative items, additional items needed, technical notes about that product...just about everything you might need to know. VERY helpful when choosing and comparing products. They have some pretty good prices too.
Hope this helps,
Ken

[aeajr]

You seem to be new to sailplanes, so let me suggest a series of artciles. The first in the Series can be found here:
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=monthly&id=36&pagenumber=3

Covers cost to get started, types of planes and the like. Covers wood an foam starter planes.

Later articles in the series cover radios, finding lift, etc. You may find it useful. The series addresses a lot of the questions you are asking.

[buurin]

First I want to thank everyone for their input. I decided to go with the Gentle lady and recieved the kit in the mail yesterday. I also found a club(http://www.hampshirecountyrc.org/) within 25 minutes of my house! I am currently getting my building area(a very messy basement) cleaned up and workable(aka flat) so I should be building the Horizontal and Vertical Stabalizer by Thursday, I can't wait. Maybe I'll take some pictures of my progress and put em up on this thread for anyone who is interrested in seeing my pile of wood and glue come to life

thanks again,
barron

[aeajr]

Let me make a suggestion for your building area

1) Ventilation - If your basement is damp, it will effect the wood. You need to make sure you keep the area fairly dry. Humidity will warp things and cause mold on the parts. Yucky

2) Ventilation - If you work with CA and/or epoxy, both give off harmful fumes. CA is especially bad. When I first started working with it, I spent several days in a row working in the basement doing a repair. I thought I was coming down with the flue. Turns out CA causes some pretty bad side effects in many people. Some are so allergic to it they can't use it.

I purchased a bathroom ceiling fan from Home Depot:
vent fan $15 (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/prodmeta/pg_prodmeta.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&MID=9876&CNTKEY=Products_2%2FHeating+%26+Cooling%2FVentilat ion%2FBath+Fans%2FWithout+Lights&sortOrder=priceDesc&ProductOID=525713&BV_SessionID=@@@@0964122891.1090326974@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdladcmdgeflkjcgelceffdfgidgki.0)

I ran a flexible vent tube, like the kind used for clothes dryers, to a window.
Dryer duct $10 vent kit (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/prodmeta/pg_prodmeta.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&MID=9876&source=SEARCH&searchText=dryer+duct+kit&CNTKEY=Products_2%2FHeating+%26+Cooling%2FApplianc e+Venting%2FDryer+Venting&ProductOID=525625&BV_SessionID=@@@@0964122891.1090326974@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdladcmdgeflkjcgelceffdfgidgki.0)

I took out a pane of glass and put a dryer vent set in Plexiglas in its place. Whenever I am working with CA, epoxy or anything else that gives off fumes, I turn on the fan and move the vent very close to the work to try and carry out as much of the fumes as possible.

An alternative way of mounting this, which I may change to, would be to put the fan by the window and hang the tube from the ceiling on some kind of a swing arm so I can swing it over the work area.

Even with this set-up, I try to take a breath away from the work area, I take a breath, use the CA or epoxy, then turn away and inhale to minimize the amount of fumes I breath in.

When I am working with a lot of CA or epoxy, like when I glassed the fuselage of one of my planes, the vent alone is not good enough. I can still feel some effect, so I picked up a filtering breathing mask, also from home depot. With this I completely avoid the problem. When I am done, I leave the work area and leave the vent fan running to carry out the fumes.
Breathing Mask - $19.95 (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/prodmeta/pg_prodmeta.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&MID=9876&CNTKEY=Products_2%2FSafety+%26+Security%2FFace+Pro tection+%26+Respiration&sortOrder=priceDesc&ProductOID=524964&BV_SessionID=@@@@0964122891.1090326974@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdladcmdgeflkjcgelceffdfgidgki.0)

The cheap filter masks for $3 won't do any good. They filter dust, not fumes.

Epoxy does not have as quick or as dramatic effect, but accumulates over time. It may not bother you now, but 6 months or 6 years from now, depending on how much you use, you could become allergic to it. Avoid the build up in your system and take the precautions listed above. They won't eliminate your exposure, but they could reduce it dramatically for very little money.