Latest mod - solid centre diff...

[Dan405]

As you've all probly noticed by my rantings, i have a Hyper 21 8 port
powered 1/8th buggy (protech phaser 4 RS). As standard the buggy had torque
splitting diff's front, centre and rear. My mate owns 2 Thunder Tiger
EB4's, one Pro, one S2. The S2 has a plastic centre gear, no diff, whilst
the Pro has a proper centre diff. He had a spare centre diff, and fitted it
to the S2, we then noted that the S2 seemed a lot slower, and it didn't
really do much for the handling, although it didn't flip nearly as badly
when jumping.

He then fitted a plastic gear instead of the centre diff to his Pro, and it
was quicker, but then he stripped it, so it was back to centre diff for the
day.

However, undetered, we took his spare centre diff and used milliput to block
it up, so it was just a solid block, with a metal gear (he didn't want to go
to plastic gears and no diffs, as they are all too easy to strip and are
very annoying on the Pro, it strips then more often than the S2 for some
reason, suspect bent chassis plate). We then fitted this blocked up centre
diff to his Pro, and it was no doubt quicker and had a metal gear. Success
:) Granted, coming out of corners, you have to be a little more gentle, as
the back end does tend to step out in low grip situations. We then blocked
a knackered centre diff i had, and indeed it did make my car quicker, if a
little tail happy, but that is pretty fun :)

So there you go, no centre diff is a bit less grippy, but quicker, and if
you want to go this route and not plastic gears, then block up the cogs in
your centre diff using milliput (disclaimer : not my fault if you manage to
bust something doing this :) )

Has anyone else any experience with fiddling with diffs?


--
Dan

[Nigel Mellor]

"Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
news:2ku6bqF6euijU1@uni-berlin.de...
> So there you go, no centre diff is a bit less grippy, but quicker, and if
> you want to go this route and not plastic gears, then block up the cogs in
> your centre diff using milliput (disclaimer : not my fault if you manage to
> bust something doing this :) )
>
> Has anyone else any experience with fiddling with diffs?

I'm not trying to put you down Dan, but tuning the limited-slip characteristics
of diffs on 1:8 buggies is already well documented elsewhere.

For high-grip surfaces (on road) cars tend not to use a centre diff at all as
the back end is not likely to slide due to the immense grip.

For low-grip surfaces (off road) the back end already has a tendency to slide so
the centre diff needs some slip to prevent provoking even more oversteer.

The slip characteristics of the front, centre and rear diffs can be tuned by
using different weights of silicon oil or grease.

For loose dirt tracks which are typical in the US, oil weights of 3000, 7000,
1000 (front, centre, rear) are a good place to start. In the UK where
comparatively higher grip grass tracks are the norm, 5000, 10000, 3000 might be
a better setup.

If you have money to burn then a Torsen diff in the front will give better grip
there and more speed out of tight corners.

I cannot recommend the 1/8th buggy forum on www.rcnitrotalk.com too highly. This
is an excellent place for discussion and advice on all things related to 1:8
buggies.

Cheers,

Nigel.

[Dan405]

"Nigel Mellor" <nigel.mellor@reply-to.in.signature> wrote in message
news:XXEGc.164$OU1.50@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> "Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
> news:2ku6bqF6euijU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > So there you go, no centre diff is a bit less grippy, but quicker, and
if
> > you want to go this route and not plastic gears, then block up the cogs
in
> > your centre diff using milliput (disclaimer : not my fault if you
manage to
> > bust something doing this :) )
> >
> > Has anyone else any experience with fiddling with diffs?
>
> I'm not trying to put you down Dan, but tuning the limited-slip
characteristics
> of diffs on 1:8 buggies is already well documented elsewhere.

Yea, i was gonna look, but was way too much came up on google :)

> For high-grip surfaces (on road) cars tend not to use a centre diff at all
as
> the back end is not likely to slide due to the immense grip.
>
> For low-grip surfaces (off road) the back end already has a tendency to
slide so
> the centre diff needs some slip to prevent provoking even more oversteer.
>
> The slip characteristics of the front, centre and rear diffs can be tuned
by
> using different weights of silicon oil or grease.
>
> For loose dirt tracks which are typical in the US, oil weights of 3000,
7000,
> 1000 (front, centre, rear) are a good place to start. In the UK where
> comparatively higher grip grass tracks are the norm, 5000, 10000, 3000
might be
> a better setup.

Thing is, we use them in several different places within a week, so
stripping the diff down and re-oiling it everyday sounds like a lot of
hassle....although i dunno what stuff is actually in my diffs right now, as
i didn't put it in :) I got the car 2nd hand, and the previous owner had
already done all that...

> If you have money to burn then a Torsen diff in the front will give better
grip
> there and more speed out of tight corners.

Where does one go about buying such a little bit of trickey?

> I cannot recommend the 1/8th buggy forum on www.rcnitrotalk.com too
highly. This
> is an excellent place for discussion and advice on all things related to
1:8
> buggies.
>

Ah cheers for your help :) Just joined me the Max Bashers forum, so i'll
ask questions on there for a little while before going on to irritate
another bunch of people ;)


--
Dan

[MikeF]

Whats milliput BTW?

I use super thick gear grease that i got from work. (in a druatrax axis) Still allows some
diff-action, but greatly improves traction in the rough stuff.


"Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
news:2l0ho0F7889iU1@uni-berlin.de...
> "Nigel Mellor" <nigel.mellor@reply-to.in.signature> wrote in message
> news:XXEGc.164$OU1.50@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> > "Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
> > news:2ku6bqF6euijU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > > So there you go, no centre diff is a bit less grippy, but quicker, and
> if
> > > you want to go this route and not plastic gears, then block up the cogs
> in
> > > your centre diff using milliput (disclaimer : not my fault if you
> manage to
> > > bust something doing this :) )
> > >
> > > Has anyone else any experience with fiddling with diffs?
> >
> > I'm not trying to put you down Dan, but tuning the limited-slip
> characteristics
> > of diffs on 1:8 buggies is already well documented elsewhere.
>
> Yea, i was gonna look, but was way too much came up on google :)
>
> > For high-grip surfaces (on road) cars tend not to use a centre diff at all
> as
> > the back end is not likely to slide due to the immense grip.
> >
> > For low-grip surfaces (off road) the back end already has a tendency to
> slide so
> > the centre diff needs some slip to prevent provoking even more oversteer.
> >
> > The slip characteristics of the front, centre and rear diffs can be tuned
> by
> > using different weights of silicon oil or grease.
> >
> > For loose dirt tracks which are typical in the US, oil weights of 3000,
> 7000,
> > 1000 (front, centre, rear) are a good place to start. In the UK where
> > comparatively higher grip grass tracks are the norm, 5000, 10000, 3000
> might be
> > a better setup.
>
> Thing is, we use them in several different places within a week, so
> stripping the diff down and re-oiling it everyday sounds like a lot of
> hassle....although i dunno what stuff is actually in my diffs right now, as
> i didn't put it in :) I got the car 2nd hand, and the previous owner had
> already done all that...
>
> > If you have money to burn then a Torsen diff in the front will give better
> grip
> > there and more speed out of tight corners.
>
> Where does one go about buying such a little bit of trickey?
>
> > I cannot recommend the 1/8th buggy forum on www.rcnitrotalk.com too
> highly. This
> > is an excellent place for discussion and advice on all things related to
> 1:8
> > buggies.
> >
>
> Ah cheers for your help :) Just joined me the Max Bashers forum, so i'll
> ask questions on there for a little while before going on to irritate
> another bunch of people ;)
>
>
> --
> Dan
>
>

[Dan405]

"MikeF" <vanning@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:OfadnYe40-m6X3bd4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> Whats milliput BTW?
>
> I use super thick gear grease that i got from work. (in a druatrax axis)
Still allows some
> diff-action, but greatly improves traction in the rough stuff.
>
>

Putty that dries rock hard :)

--
Dan

[Nigel Mellor]

"Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
news:2l0ho0F7889iU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> Thing is, we use them in several different places within a week, so
> stripping the diff down and re-oiling it everyday sounds like a lot of
> hassle....although i dunno what stuff is actually in my diffs right now, as
> i didn't put it in :) I got the car 2nd hand, and the previous owner had
> already done all that...

Fair comment, a spare centre diff would seem to be the obvious solution here,
one locked up for tarmac and the other filled with 7K oil for loose, off-road
surfaces.

> > If you have money to burn then a Torsen diff in the front will give better
> > grip
>
> Where does one go about buying such a little bit of trickey?

I'm not sure you can get them for the Protech, for the more popular buggies they
start around the £100 mark for a brand new one.

With Protech being based in Belgium they are very popular in mainland Europe.
www.twf8.ws has some Protech stuff on it.

[Dan405]

"Nigel Mellor" <nigel.mellor@reply-to.in.signature> wrote in message
news:EY%Gc.679$I74.310@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> "Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
> news:2l0ho0F7889iU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Thing is, we use them in several different places within a week, so
> > stripping the diff down and re-oiling it everyday sounds like a lot of
> > hassle....although i dunno what stuff is actually in my diffs right now,
as
> > i didn't put it in :) I got the car 2nd hand, and the previous owner
had
> > already done all that...
>
> Fair comment, a spare centre diff would seem to be the obvious solution
here,
> one locked up for tarmac and the other filled with 7K oil for loose,
off-road
> surfaces.
>
> > > If you have money to burn then a Torsen diff in the front will give
better
> > > grip
> >
> > Where does one go about buying such a little bit of trickey?
>
> I'm not sure you can get them for the Protech, for the more popular
buggies they
> start around the £100 mark for a brand new one.
>
> With Protech being based in Belgium they are very popular in mainland
Europe.
> www.twf8.ws has some Protech stuff on it.
>
>

Oh cheers mate, nice link :) One bookmarked for the future...

Ordered a Hyper 7 PBS diff from ebay, it looks like it'll fit, and was only
a tenner, so i can always put it back on again if it doesn't :)

Cheers

--
Dan

[Nigel Mellor]

"Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
news:2l3fogF8aucfU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Ordered a Hyper 7 PBS diff from ebay, it looks like it'll fit, and was
only
> a tenner, so i can always put it back on again if it doesn't :)

HoBao have some very nice "spider" diffs in their latest Hyper 7 models.
They have 6 small gears instead of the usual 4 (or 2 if you are unlucky
enough to own an MP7.5 Sport). Very smooth and very strong apparently...

[Dan405]

"Nigel Mellor" <nigel.mellor@reply-to.in.signature> wrote in message
news:ccjil1$308$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net. ..
> "Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
> news:2l3fogF8aucfU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > Ordered a Hyper 7 PBS diff from ebay, it looks like it'll fit, and was
> only
> > a tenner, so i can always put it back on again if it doesn't :)
>
> HoBao have some very nice "spider" diffs in their latest Hyper 7 models.
> They have 6 small gears instead of the usual 4 (or 2 if you are unlucky
> enough to own an MP7.5 Sport). Very smooth and very strong apparently...
>
>

Well the hyper 7 front/rear diff didn't fit in my gearbox, i'm sure the
centre one would fit...found a few on ebay america, so might get one, if it
don't fit, it'll go on ebay :)

Oh, dunno if you saw my other post, but Homedoc now has a stock of the 8
port Hyper 21's if you still want one?


--
Dan

[Nigel Mellor]

"Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
news:2l5a2vF8lpauU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Oh, dunno if you saw my other post, but Homedoc now has a stock of the 8
> port Hyper 21's if you still want one?

Yeah, I've asked him to ship it in a weeks time so it doesn't arrive while
I'm on holiday. Just need to sort out the inline pipe set and we're good to
go...

[Dan405]

"Nigel Mellor" <nigel.mellor@reply-to.in.signature> wrote in message
news:ccjssl$qj9$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net. ..
> "Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
> news:2l5a2vF8lpauU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > Oh, dunno if you saw my other post, but Homedoc now has a stock of the 8
> > port Hyper 21's if you still want one?
>
> Yeah, I've asked him to ship it in a weeks time so it doesn't arrive while
> I'm on holiday. Just need to sort out the inline pipe set and we're good
to
> go...
>
>

Try this place http://stores.ebay.com/Hobbie-Guy-RC if you havn't already :)

About £23 iirc.

--
Dan

[Nigel Mellor]

"Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
news:2l5k2uF8ls7cU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Try this place http://stores.ebay.com/Hobbie-Guy-RC if you havn't already :)
>
> About £23 iirc.

Yeah, that's where I intend to get mine from. And the Mugen diff oil. And the
Mugen flywheel and clutch shoes. And the...

Larry doesn't *actually* have the engines yet. OFNA have told him they have been
shipped and he is expecting them on Friday. I hope it doesn't go pear-shaped
like last time. Never mind, he's got 20 days to sort my order out.

[Dan405]

"Nigel Mellor" <nigel.mellor@reply-to.in.signature> wrote in message
news:2tkHc.976$Tr2.774@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> "Dan405" <dan405@SdanPontAherMun.com> wrote in message
> news:2l5k2uF8ls7cU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > Try this place http://stores.ebay.com/Hobbie-Guy-RC if you havn't
already :)
> >
> > About £23 iirc.
>
> Yeah, that's where I intend to get mine from. And the Mugen diff oil. And
the
> Mugen flywheel and clutch shoes. And the...
>
> Larry doesn't *actually* have the engines yet. OFNA have told him they
have been
> shipped and he is expecting them on Friday. I hope it doesn't go
pear-shaped
> like last time. Never mind, he's got 20 days to sort my order out.
>

Ah he told me they had actually 'arrived' ;) Sneaky. Still, i've already
got mine, so i'm happy :) Just ordered myself a new 086 exhaust to replace
the one i killed, then killed some more, then stuck togehter with
milliput....still works tho ;) Dunno how much power its sapping tho...

Thinking about examining my Alu clutch, havn't looked at it since i fitted
it...

Also, need to change the oil in my shocks really. All jobs i can't be arsed
with :)


--
Dan

[the_bed_wrecker]

Hi, did you find a different center diff to fit your phaser ? Got one in bits and finding it hard to find parts in the UK.