Ama

[rms59]

I must be dumb, because I don't know where to post this.
I have been an AMA member for about 35 years, then dropped it for 10 years, and now want back in. I don't care what number I get.

My question is the insurance AMA provides. Will this cover me for any liability I incur? For example, I hit someone with my electric helicopter, or damage property?

At $58 a year, this seems all too cheap.

Dick

[Kimmers4Ever]

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/overview.asp

That right there covers everything that AMA covers. :)

[ElectRick]

You can call AMA HQ and ask for your old AMA number to be reassigned to you. I did this a few years ago after I'd put aside R/C for a few years, and got my same number back. I wanted it back since all my planes had my old AMA number pasted on the wings and such. :D

I wish I'd done this the first time I rejoined after a 10 year absence in the 70's. I'd still have my old 5-digit AMA number.

Rick

[rms59]

Yeah but......I would like to know it their are any "catches" to the Liability part. I fly at a local school, and just want to know more about how I am covered if I hurt someone. The link doesn't explain in detail

Dick


Liability Coverage for the Operation of Model Aircraft, Boats, Cars, and Rockets

$2,500,000 Comprehensive General Liability Protection for model activities for members, clubs, site owners, and sponsors

$25,000 Accident/Medical Coverage for members

$10,000 Maximum Accidental Death Coverage for members

$1,000 Fire, Theft, and Vandalism Coverage for members

[Kimmers4Ever]

Oh.. Okay Sorry.. As far as I know, you can fly anywhere and be covered. I'll take a gander at the Membership manual..

Okay here's what I found on it..

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/PDF-files/503.pdf

Do you have PDF? You might have to contact the insurance guys and ask questions.
Here's where you can find the numbers. I believe the guy I contacted once was third name from the bottom: Carl Maroney.

I hope that helps. I wish I was more help.. If I can find more on it 'll let you know.

[ElectRick]

Don't quote me on this, but my understanding is that if you are flying within the established AMA safety rules for the type of model you're operating, and you aren't otherwise flying illegally (e.g. trespassing to fly on someone's private property), then you're covered if a mishap occurs.
Of course, lawyers for the plaintiff would make it more complicated than that in the case of a personal injury.
I read of a case once where a little girl was killed (I think, or at least badly injured) by an R/C helicopter, when she ran towards it and got too close to it, in spite of repeated warnings shouted to her to stay away by it's pilot. The pilot had written permission to fly where he was flying, and was an experienced R/C pilot, flying within all applicable safety rules.

The mother filed suit against the pilot, the property owner, the manufacturer of the helicopter, it's engine, radio, and whoever else she could think of to sue. Apparently, she ignorantly thought she would get rich and retire after suing the pants off everybody. The AMA offered to pay the medical costs incurred (plus a little P & S money I'm sure) in order to settle out of court, but she was after the BIG payoff in court. The judge found the pilot something like 10% at fault, and the child/mother 90% at fault, saying that the pilot COULD have opted to land and wait for her to leave, or leave himself. The mother was found negligent in not having exercised adequate supervision of the child.

Instead of hitting the jackpot, the woman walked away with only a couple grand, scarcely enough to pay the medical bill, let alone cover the attorney bills.

In the lawsuit-happy world we live in, I'd be double-darn sure my rearend was covered 12 ways from Sunday before I flew anywhere near other people.

Rick

[leccyflyer]

I'll move this to the AMA forum.

Brian

[Kimmers4Ever]

Thanks Mr. Mod! ;)

[J_R]

The best description of the AMA insurance I have seen is in the club renewal kit on the AMA site: http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/PDF-files/2004clubkit.pdf

The AMA insurance is excess. That means that it comes after any other insurance the AMA member may have in place, such as, but not limited to, homeowner’s or renter’s insurance. A typical homeowner’s policy has limits of $300,000. IF the claim exceeds $300,000, and the member has homeowner’s, the AMA coverage then kicks in. The max on the AMA policy is $2.5 million. If a member has no other insurance, the AMA coverage is primary. IIRC it has a deductible of $250. The member MUST use any other coverage first.

The AMA coverage for a member is in place anywhere a member may legally fly (and it need not be an AMA chartered club field) AND if the terms of the Safety Code are adhered to. The Safety Code should be read as “exclusions to AMA coverage” which MAY affect the coverage. Conversely, if you can not legally fly at a site and/or you can’t not maintain the rules in the Safety Code, you should not fly.

There are other coverage’s for modeling related medical, and fire/theft.

[rms59]

"In the lawsuit-happy world we live in, I'd be double-darn sure my rearend was covered 12 ways from Sunday before I flew anywhere near other people."

Thats what I'm worried about.......I will read the PDF for sure.
I know for a fact that homeowners will NOT cover anything like a model. I already checked. It covers only things related to the home or upkeep to it like a lawnmower. A snowmobile would not be covered for example. Separate insurance will be needed.

So, the AMA would be primary.
I am just worried that the AMA would get out of it's liability because of a "technicality" of the rules of some type. A good insurance, should cover you for any liability as long as it can be proven that you were not totally negligent. If for example, you lose radio contact and the model flys some distance and crashes somewhere.

I hope others have some type of insurance, because an accident like this could run into the millions, and your homeowners won't cover it.

I don't belong to any club, I fly in a schoolyard, and I fly safe. If kids are around playing baseball or what not, I wait till there gone, or fly another day.

Until I am positive AMA will cover me, I am going to talk with my insurance agent to see what kind of insurance would.

Any advice appreciated.

DIck

P.S. I also notice in the PDF that the full explanation of coverage costs an additional $5.00. I may spring for this, and give it to a lawyer to find out if their are any holes........
Sad I can't trust anything.....but this is the world we have made.......

[J_R]

Call your insurance agent. Laws vary from state to state. Having said that, you are the first person that I have ever seen post that your homeowner's does not cover liability for models. I know for a fact that my policy does cover models. The only exclusion in my policy, relative to airplanes, is an exclusion of aircraft capable of carrying human beings. When you call your agent, ask him about a PUP for additional coverage.

Another suggestion is to call Carl Maroney at AMA HQ. You can order the policy at the same time. It is about a 60 page document. The $5 does not cover the cost of the copies.

You might want to spend a call to your attorney asking him about homeowner's liability coverage relative to models when you ask him how much to look over the AMA policy.

Let us know what you find.

[rms59]

J-R....I will get back on this subject in a day or two.
Thanks

[rms59]

Ok, I have more information.
The person I originally talked to at Sun/Alliance was in error. She originally told me that model planes would not be covered under my homeowners policy and I would need a "Rider" of some type.
This morning I decided to call again and talk to someone about getting this "Rider" attachment to my policy and was quickly informed that I don't need it. My homeowners covers me for any personal liability incurred no matter what, or who, is at fault. They would also provide lawyers to defend in case it goes to court.
He is sending me the details.....
I feel better now.
Dick

[J_R]

That's great. You had me worried.

[ctdahle]

The AMA safety code is pretty transparent, as long as flyers follow it's pretty clear guidelines, they will be covered. The overwhelming majority of AMA members have lots of fun flying model airplanes, helicopters, and rockets within the code, and while it does stop a few people from doing things that would be "fun" (launching missles from your plane, putting servos in an ultra-light so you can give rides to the kiddies, dive bombing soccer games, fueling your plane with high explosives, playing tag with full scale planes...), the reality is that the code is largely common sense that most reasonable people are going to follow anyway.

If your radio fails, you are going to be covered. If you deliberately try to fly your plane through the swingset to give the little kids a fright, you are not only not covered, you belong in jail.

Remember too that insurance is not to protect the person flying the model. It is to protect your wife and children from financial disaster if the flyer kills you with his model. That is why most of us insist that everyone we fly with has coverage. We don't care if the lawsuit over an injury results in you losing your home (although the insurance probably will save it) but if you kill one of us we do care that our wives and children don't end up on the street.

God forbid any of us are on the recieving end of a lawsuit for wrongful death, but if it happens, insurance assures that the dead guy's family doesn't end up on welfare.

Second, as to the helicopter example, this is how the system SHOULD work and indeed DOES work most of the time. The Court apportions the relative fault and awards damages on the basis of percentage of fault. This is not an example of a failure of the insurance or the safety code. Rather it is an example of how well it works.

The mother was 90% at fault, so she bears 90% of the cost. The 10% fault attributed to the flyer is not unreasonable. Most experienced and responsible flyers would testify that if a kid is about to get hit by a model, the flyer's responsibility is to put it in the dirt. This is not even debatable.

No matter how expensive our planes or choppers are and no matter how stupid or disobedient a child is, society still believes that children are more valuable than any of our models.