Lea V pics

[TheTick]

This plane was totalled within the first 5 minutes of her maiden flight. I'll post a few pics of the plane and setup.

This was my first real F5b plane. I was surprised at how light the layup was. It felt as if I could rip the wing apart like a piece of paper. I guess they are made light for competition. However, the spar was strong and seemed to be able to hold alot of g's. Here's the first pic.

[TheTick]

It would have been nice to have bottom hinged flaps for full 90 degree deployment, but I guess it's not that necessary. Got about 45 degrees here and never got a chance to try them out.

[TheTick]

Fuse is made of kevlar. Plenty of room for 10 gp3300's side by side to sit flush on bottom of fuse.

Used a B50 6s and hacker opto125 up front.

[TheTick]

One of my pet peeves is having to use aftermarket servo covers. It's no big deal, but it would have been nice to have some molded covers that sit flush with the wing.

[soholingo]

nice pics... now I will ask what everyone else wants to know... where are the pics of the carnage?

[TheTick]

I already threw the plane away. Too depressed to take pics. It was bad though.

[TheTick]

Used 17x13 prop. Vertical climb was much better than I expected. The biggest surprise was it's energy retention. I only have slope plane to compare it to, but I was really impressed. Throttled it up to altitude and it seemed to just scream around forever off power.

Again, I only have lighter wing loaded slope planes for comparison, but just couldn't get over the off power speed and energy retention. I would love to have another one, but need something slightly more rugged for my LZ.

[ShredAir]

Yes,the Lea V is a competition airplane, and as such it is built light and strong. The plane accelerates rapidly and is very fast, read on...

OK, I'm going to take the liberty to hijack this thread and inform y'all that we have a fully set-up 24-cell Lea V for sale.
It's Don Pesznecker's plane, which I set-up and dialed in, which means I have made a new stabilizer saddle with slightly more incidence. The plane now flies hands-off and is very fast.
It appears faster to me than a Surprise 11, and it wants to be flown with more rounded turns like an Avionic, which is not my style. Don, unwilling to participate in the 16-cell 200A chase, is concentrating on F5F (10-cell F5B) and does not want the plane back; hence, it is for sale.
Details:
RTF Lea V with RFM 17x18 carbon prop, Plettenberg HP220/30 A2 P4 7:1 FAI motor, Schulze future 102 controller (the good, dedicated one without the dip switches), 5x JP 241 servos, small ChPS switch, 4-cell 350mAh NiMH receiver pack, and 2x 24-cell CP1700 packs. -- All of this stuff is new (7 flights and landings).
Firm price US$1650, which is a steal. Whoever buys this plane has to add a receiver and program the plane. Thanks for reading. Please e-mail privately for more info.
Now back to regular programming...

Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir

[Yogi]

you gotta tell us how the Lea died. What happened?

~~fred

[down_shift]

TheTic,

This has to be an optical allusion, but even the alignment of the wing to the fuse in post #2 supports the appearance of the left wing tip being forward of the right wing tip.

The photo was rotated 0.25 degrees CCW so the fuse is 90 degrees to the page. The wings appear to be level because the shadows under both wing tips are equal. Your thoughts?

Update. Have been assured by Dieter (the distributor) that the photo IS an optical illusion, the wings are on square, and the molds are straight. Did not attempt to imply otherwise. Sorry if it came out this way.

[soholingo]

I have had enough experiences similar to this to warrant my wanting to learn how to build these sort of airframes. I can't justify the costs and fragility when I am not competing. The more I read this sort of thing the more the scorpio appears to be the king of the hill for sport flying with these sort of airframes. And I only give the nod to the scorpio because the fuse is kevlar, other wise the victory is one HECK of a deal for sport flying f5b.

We have to keep in mind that these are competition planes built for specific tasks and not designed to last several seasons. Hence my search for a good compromise...

[soholingo]

Wow Russ...

That overlay speaks volumes... If that's true that means the molds are out of allignment, or the airframe was twisted some other way... in either case that would be unacceptable for a competition airframe...

[davidfee]

I strongly suspect it is an optical illusion. Camera lenses can do very strange things to straight lines.

-David

[down_shift]

I strongly suspect it is an optical illusion. Camera lenses can do very strange things to straight lines.

-David

Totally agree. But if those shadows were not the same size as well....

[SPasierb]

The more I read this sort of thing the more the scorpio appears to be the king of the hill for sport flying with these sort of airframes. And I only give the nod to the scorpio because the fuse is kevlar, other wise the victory is one HECK of a deal for sport flying f5b...

2 quick questions to Jay or anybody else -- who else sells the Scorpio? I spoke with Dieter, but they're out of stock @ ShredAir. I'm not familiar with the Victory -- can anyone provide 411 or a link? Thanks!

[ShredAir]

Great eye, Russ, but that photo IS an optical illusion. Those wings are on square, and the molds are straight. "Trust me," if the wings were on this crooked, the plane would be very difficult to handle, not fly hands-off... Also, the plane already would have been "shot down and buried" in Europe, and we'd know about it.

If there is enough interest (and patience), we can sure order a shipment of Scorpios. A shipment would be no less than 4. Please e-mail privately for details.

Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir

[soholingo]

There enough of us to pool our resources and buy in larger lots, hopefully at a discount. I was extremely distraught when I found that several of the guys at the VA f5b contest bought avionics. Because if we had simply mentioned it to each other we may have been able to get some sort of group discount. At anyrate, I believe the website for the victory is

www.modelairpol.com

It is not a kevlar fuse but it is plenty durable so much so that I have hard landed it and fixed it several times with little incidence. I know chris is out of town for two weeks, but I have another victory on order with bottom hinged flaps for around $400. This is an old polish competition design, but it flies well, no bad habits, stalls straight forward with a light load (7-10) cells, but it doesn't carry energy as well as the s11. For what its worth they are coming out with a newer design with a smaller chord wing, I can't speak to the performance of the new plane as I haven't seen it nor flown it...

I am really getting this victory to see to answer the question of whether it makes a difference to have flaps or not on these ships. But if I had another $500 to spend, I would get that 7 cell avionik. Steve Neu showed me his and it is pretty impressive. Wing feels like it has an iron spar.


jay

[down_shift]

Jay, I believe you are talking about the "Victor." The newer design is called the "Vigor" and its wing span is 80mm longer than the Victor. The fuse is longer to accommodate 18-inch props, too. Here is the prototype Vigor wing on the Victor fuse. The Vigor will have flaps. Chris Abczynski passed along the info and pics. (Chris - hope it is okay to share these).

[tufnik]

It's the Victor F5B, not victory. Specs can be seen by the web site provided by soholingo.

I've been flying the Victor for about a year now. I have several hotliners (using 10-16 cells), and the Victor is the fastest on low level speed passes. The wing is an RG14 and is fairly thin. The plane needs to be flown fast. If you're not careful, you can get tip stall (I know this). The fuse is fairly thin, and it is NOT as durable as other planes such as Sirius, Laser, and Caleb. If you want it stronger, you'll have to lay some fiberglass on the inside compartment. As is, it's pretty light - that's why Chris advertises it as a competitive grade plane. The nice thing about the kit is that if you total a fuse or wing, you can order only the wing or fuse. You don't have to buy the whole plane. For the price, the quality is pretty good. It's a value that's hard to beat.

tufnik

[TheTick]

TheTic,

This has to be an optical allusion, but even the alignment of the wing to the fuse in post #2 supports the appearance of the left wing tip being forward of the right wing tip.

The photo was rotated 0.25 degrees CCW so the fuse is 90 degrees to the page. The wings appear to be level because the shadows under both wing tips are equal. Your thoughts?

Update. Have been assured by Dieter (the distributor) that the photo IS an optical illusion, the wings are on square, and the molds are straight. Did not attempt to imply otherwise. Sorry if it came out this way.

Wow Russ, you have a good eye. I didn't want to point it out because the plane was really beautiful and Dieter's service was top notch, but I was a little dissapointed to see this on such an expensive plane. Didn't seem to effect flight though.

[TheTick]

you gotta tell us how the Lea died. What happened?

~~fred

I was doing some serious high speed passes and decided to hot dog a low level. Had too much airleron throw mixed with flaps and she just got away from me. Happened so fast, not even sure exactly what happened.

[soholingo]

down and tufnik,

Thanks for the correction. I did mean Victor (I am used to calling the Flash 8, which is what mine was sold to me as).

Word to the wise. If you ever get an aiframe that has a fit and finish like this you need to return it. From the looks of it, your fuse wing bolts were crooked. I am sure Dieter would have taken care f you.

And as for the plane not flying with the crooked wing that's simply not true. I had a bolt come off on a plane like this, in flight, the wing was twisted like so that it was 30/60 degrees to the fuse, instead of 45/45 degrees to the fuse. I noticed this when it was 200 feet up. I was still able to guide the plane in for a landing. I did land hard as broke the fuse, but otherwise no damage....

Overhead view of what the wing looked like during flight on the right (I hope the ascii art shows up correctly)

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oh well looks like itsn't showing up correctly... it does in the edit window...

[soholingo]

Wow Russ, you have a good eye. I didn't want to point it out because the plane was really beautiful and Dieter's service was top notch, but I was a little dissapointed to see this on such an expensive plane. Didn't seem to effect flight though.

Ben, I don't blame you for not wanting to stir up any trouble, but you aren't helping anyone by being silent. If the plane was crooked Dieter would want to know so he could make it right, and I would want to know to make sure I received the right sort of plane. I don't like how the fuse is cut inside the fuse. You should have received a better fuse. On the positive side that wing IS beautiful....

[down_shift]

And as for the plane not flying with the crooked wing that's simply not true. I had a bolt come off on a plane like this, in flight, the wing was twisted like so that it was 30/60 degrees to the fuse, instead of 45/45 degrees to the fuse. I noticed this when it was 200 feet up. I was still able to guide the plane in for a landing. I did land hard as broke the fuse, but otherwise no damage....


Jay, must agree with Dieter on this one. As he said, "if the wings were on this crooked, the plane would be very difficult to handle, not fly hands-off."

[ShredAir]

The trailing edge portion is designed to be taped onto the fuselage with strapping tape. This is to keep the fuselage from twisting in flight and on landing, but it would also correct a minor misalignment. In this case, the misalignment is enough that some reworking of the bolt holes in the wing will be necessary.
I agree with Jay, let us know these blems, as the steps to correct them are simple, and of course we prefer to discuss them in private rather than in public.

Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir

[ShredAir]

Actually, let's discuss this in public, even though it is too late for this Lea now.
Look at the photos of Pesz' Lea below (which I took between posts): there is enough flex in the fuselages that this "misalignment" can appear either way, depending on which way I push the wing. That's why the trailing edge does need to be taped to the fuselage with strapping tape.That alone will fix almost all misalignments.
If you're wondering if your plane is misaligned, do the following:
bolt on the wing and see if you can strap down the trailing edge by lining it up properly with the fuselage. If you can, it's square, but you can double-check by measuring the distance between the tip of the fin and each wing tip; the distances should be identical.
If you can't line up the trailing edge properly, you need to rework the mounting holes in the wing. Let's say the misalignment is such that the right wing is back farther than the left one. You would then carefully enlarge the right hole rearward from the bottom side; best is to use a needle file. Likewise, the left hole would be enlarged forward from the bottom side. -- Clear as mud?
Question: on the particular plane discussed here, could the trailing edge be taped down squarely?

Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir

[soholingo]

Good explination Dieter. I am glad you posted it in public as it helps us all learn and understand these planes better. The fit and finish on these planes can be so good that you don't think to tape the TE down in the wing saddle. Althought I know that's what you are supposed to do...

And as for flying the plane with a crooked wing, I am telling you I did it with the Flash 8's wing horrbily askew... I would doubt it too if I haddn't seen it... However anyone is more than welcome to twist their wing and prove me wrong. :)

j

[TheTick]

I didn't think to tape it down like that. I know that this would have held it straight. It didn't take much to "flex the wing into the proper position. Just didn't know how to hold it.

Dieter, right after I posted that last pic, I thought that I should have probably pm'd you instead. You gave such great service and you seem to have an excellent reputation. I just didn't think it was a big deal at the time.

[davidfee]

Sorry about the loss of your beautiful Lea V.

Just an additional input for the guys who have not seen this tape-on thing before. Nearly all F5B models are designed this way so you can tape them. Do not think for a second that this is "cheap" or "poor quality." The tab at the back of the wing needs to be taped to stiffen up the fuselage and hold the wing in alignment. The wing saddle opening must be very large to get the battery in and out, and this weakens the fuselage in torsion. Tape is very light, extremely compact and does an excellent job of holding the wing and fuselage together. If you were to use an additional screw, the result would be bulkier, heavier and actually weaker than using the tape.

-David

[davidfee]

Jay, about the crooked wing... I am sure it was flyable... but the trim likely changed a bit and the behavior in turns would definitely change. I even tape my F5D pylon racer wings in place because I do not want the alignment changing.

-David

[soholingo]

Sorry about the loss of your beautiful Lea V.

Just an additional input for the guys who have not seen this tape-on thing before. Nearly all F5B models are designed this way so you can tape them. Do not think for a second that this is "cheap" or "poor quality." The tab at the back of the wing needs to be taped to stiffen up the fuselage and hold the wing in alignment. The wing saddle opening must be very large to get the battery in and out, and this weakens the fuselage in torsion. Tape is very light, extremely compact and does an excellent job of holding the wing and fuselage together. If you were to use an additional screw, the result would be bulkier, heavier and actually weaker than using the tape.

-David

Good point Dave.

Yep I didn't say it was easy to land the flash with the crooked wing, but I had more control than i thought. Its extremely surreal to see your flying cross turn into a flying X.

j

[thermite]

It doesn't look like the wing is actually fastened, I may be wrong. A sad loss though, was the drive train and radio gear totalled too? :|

[TheTick]

Yes the wing was bolted on, I'm not sure how tight i had it though. It looked the same when it was screwed on firmly. Fortunately, all electronics survived.

I'm mostly bummed that I''ll probably never see this kind of performance again since I'm going with heavier more durable models from now on. This plane was really amazing.

[snowfallonme]

altough the jazz is not a contest grade f5b model. its high quality and 20x more strong than the lea and has exelent energy characteristics. it will be right at home on the slope for sure.

thanks and sorry for your loss, we have all been there.

dan

[ShredAir]

These planes are built light and strong, which makes them perform well. Unless done correctly, heavier does not necessarily mean more durable. But heavier often means cheaper. We've sold custom-built planes which were quite a bit stronger than standard, and more expensive.

Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir

[soholingo]

These planes are built light and strong, which makes them perform well. Unless done correctly, heavier does not necessarily mean more durable. But heavier often means cheaper. We've sold custom-built planes which were quite a bit stronger than standard, and more expensive.

Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir

Yep, I have learned this the hardway.... Which for me is the only way. :)

[Aio_1]

Agreed. A heavier plane might be stronger but it also has more inertia. The things that break a plane in a crash are inertia and rigidity. Rigidity is essential for high speed flight but it doesn't allow you to absorb energy in a crash. You need to find a happy medium between weight/strength/rigidity.

On the skewed wing problem:
Ever seen the NASA oblique wing plane? Skewing the wing slightly shouldn't have a major effect in level flight.

Aidan

[TheTick]

I understand that heavier does not always mean better. However, I believe a slightly heavier layup would help survive some of the harder landings on the slope. Especially for those emergency landings in the thick brush. The Lea's skins would be shredded apart in this stuff.

If I had the money, I would be tempted to buy another Lea and just fly it in a nice field. I miss it soo much. :(

[soholingo]

I understand that heavier does not always mean better. However, I believe a slightly heavier layup would help survive some of the harder landings on the slope. Especially for those emergency landings in the thick brush. The Lea's skins would be shredded apart in this stuff.

If I had the money, I would be tempted to buy another Lea and just fly it in a nice field. I miss it soo much. :(

Yeah, that's my dilema Ben. I really enjoy flying the fast planes but without a nice open, well manicured place to fly the plane, I had to find alternatives. That's where the laminated foam wings start to shine. I am sure people wonder why I like the nike/hoot so much when I have flown the other planes. I like have my planes not get dinged from a long blade of grass. Which is what happens with the compittion planes. Although my victor/flash8 has held up pretty well...

[davidfee]

Ever seen the NASA oblique wing plane? Skewing the wing slightly shouldn't have a major effect in level flight.

In level flight, perhaps not. It would depend on a lot of variables. However, you still have to turn and land and the control problems could become significant. The wing on the AD-1 was only pivoted at high speed when maneuvers would be made slowly but, the aircraft "exhibited aeroelastic and pitch-roll-coupling effects that contributed to poor handling qualities at sweep angles above 45 degrees." -- http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Newsroom/FactSheets/FS-019-DFRC.html

-David

[down_shift]

I understand that heavier does not always mean better. However, I believe a slightly heavier layup would help survive some of the harder landings on the slope. Especially for those emergency landings in the thick brush. The Lea's skins would be shredded apart in this stuff.

If I had the money, I would be tempted to buy another Lea and just fly it in a nice field. I miss it soo much. :(

Ben, this sounds like a no-brainer. Go with the Lea IV with the foam core. Addtional bonus is the ~ $200 savings.

[soholingo]

Ben, this sounds like a no-brainer. Go with the Lea IV with the foam core. Addtional bonus is the ~ $200 savings.

The planforms are markedly different. I wonder if they have similar flying characteristics.

Also I just noticed the Lea V has full length, ailerons. I have never seen this on a competition plane. Always heard full length control surfaces were less efficient. In practice full length control surfaces are definitely more exciting.

[SPasierb]

Also I just noticed the Lea V has full length, ailerons. I have never seen this on a competition plane. Always heard full length control surfaces were less efficient. In practice full length control surfaces are definitely more exciting.

Lea V is a flap-aileron setup (4 wing servos) for full trailing edge control.

BTW, I was on the phone the other night with Dieter prior to his posting details on the complete and fully ready to fly Lea V. Sounds like a fantastic plane and a real value despite the $1600 price tag. All the best of the best stuff, expertly dialed in. Anybody want to make me an interest-free loan? :rolleyes:

[soholingo]

Lea V is a flap-aileron setup (4 wing servos) for full trailing edge control.

BTW, I was on the phone the other night with Dieter prior to his posting details on the complete and fully ready to fly Lea V. Sounds like a fantastic plane and a real value despite the $1600 price tag. All the best of the best stuff, expertly dialed in. Anybody want to make me an interest-free loan? :rolleyes:

I stand corrected...

[TheTick]

I had the flap airleron mix on when I crashed. Roll rate was incredible at speed. I think that's why I crashed.

[TheTick]

Ben, this sounds like a no-brainer. Go with the Lea IV with the foam core. Addtional bonus is the ~ $200 savings.

Yes, I was getting ready to call Dieter when I got an offer to buy a used Jazz. I should have it by tomorrow.