PHX Link Feature request list

[mjdoz]

I don't think that there is any list here that deals specifically with what we would like to see the PHX link do as users. There has been some comments from CC and some requests from users but they are not in any one place.

As I see it there are 3 groups, Aircraft, Heli and Cars (& Boats?) that use CC controllers and all have different special requirements. I am a aircraft flyer only so the following are based on that requirement.

The features I would like to see added are:

1) Ability to select from a list of firmware versions (just in case I find a bug in the latest version so I can revert)

2) Alter the arm sequence to Low-High-Low (less of an issue now I only fly CC ESC's) and have this auto range the ESC

3) Ability to alter the switching rate on the PHX10 (is this hardware supported?) like the bigger ESC's as I am a Himax owner and sick of burnt fingers

4) Ability to store configuration files so I can reprogram all parameters with one click - basically I am lazy. Also ability to store current config from the ESC onto the PC

5) Data collection from use (max/min RPM, Temp, AMPS, Volts) reset on power off

6) Last error condition (Over temp, amps, LVC, etc) also reset at power off

BTW I think the PHX Link is light years ahead of anything else currently available. The above are additions that would potentially make it even better but it works well as it is.

Thanks

Michael

[mjdoz]

OK just realised that 5 and 6 need to be stored until overwritten or erased / reset via link otherwise you would never be able to read them .......

Michael

[FredericG]

I agree on the requested features by Michael.

Personally I liked the idea of the “lost plane” feature (a suggestion of jenny2657) where the controller lets the motor beep when there is no signal. This helps you recovering a plane that has landed (crashed) in a field.

I agree that, as not all motors make the same amount of noise, it would not work equally well on all motors. On the other hand, even for the silent motors, it is better than nothing, it is an innovative feature and it adds no weight. If I had this feature I would certainly use it!

Frederic

[mdegans]

1) Ability to select from a list of firmware versions (just in case I find a bug in the latest version so I can revert)

4) Ability to store configuration files so I can reprogram all parameters with one click - basically I am lazy. Also ability to store current config from the ESC onto the PC

5) Data collection from use (max/min RPM, Temp, AMPS, Volts) reset on power off

6) Last error condition (Over temp, amps, LVC, etc) also reset at power off
Michael

Yes!!!, that would be very nice!!, the data collection option is available on another ESC: the Tsunami-10 or 25, and I would really like to see that on a CC ESC

(log file tsunami http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=149361&stc=1 )

[Shawn Palmer]

Hi Guys,

1) - probably not going to happen for a while, if ever. Patrick has issues with that.

2) - already been discussed, and will be there in a future rev.

3) - not really necessarry on the 10, and actually the higher SF would eliminate the ability to run 3s and 4 servos due to the increased controller heat. And - Himaxx doesn't make a high enough Kv (low inductance) motor to even benefit from a higher SF.

4) - coming.

5) - coming

6) - that's a great idea, and unbeleivably useful! (you win the grand prize - e-mail me!) Not sure if it actually can be done (haven't discussed it before) but I'll be pushing for that HARD.

Also coming/seriously under consideration:
brake strength
software rev demarcation
initialization/arming tone choices
gov mode parameter options
shutdown mode options
rpm limiting
and more

Shawn

[Shawn Palmer]

What else do you guys want? Keep them coming!

"Lost plane" - I like that one a lot. It presents some challenges, but I think it's doable.

Shawn

[Hovertime]

Keep the progress going, Hackers are advancing, and others will come around soon too!;)

[FredericG]

Shawn,

Regarding the lost-plane feature:
The classic approach where the beeping is triggered by signal loss to the servos does not work for receivers with failsafe function. A possible solution could be that the beeping also starts when the throttle is kept low for, let say, 5 minutes. Would that be possible too?

Frederic

[Hovertime]

I think that research in "lost plane" using motor as a speaker is a waste of time, i could barely hear it if I'm right next to it sometimes!
There are cheap add-on units using dedicated LOUD audio signaling available already.

[rtront]

I would like to see either a lower rpm when throttled back in production governor mode , or the ability to set the very bottom rpm. I have mentioned this to Patrick and Shawn before, but thought I would put it on this accumulating list thread.

[Lynxman]

I'd like to be able to turn off the arming process so the controller will go directly to "run" mode on powerup. It'll be more practical as a tailmotor ESC for micro helis and help with troubleshooting.

[mjdoz]

Expanding the lost model alarm suggestion to "if armed and on low for x seconds beep to remind me that I am armed and dangerous". Where X is a value between say 60 and 600 (1 to 10 minutes). That would be a useful reminder for those of us that get distracted.

Am I really the first person to suggest that! It must be because Australia is 14 or so hours ahead of the US ;)

Michael

[Hovertime]

That one sounds interesting, but should be optional on/off, since it uses some power to make a "beep" .I think electric glider guys would want it off;)

[tabbytabb]

I would like to be able to adjust the length of a glitch my p-10 must see in order to have it cutoff the motor and then respool once it gets signal again.

This may already be available, I dont have the link yet. It is quite a problem in my Hornet 2, it shuts down the motor at the worst times

Maybe switch it so that it keeps last known position (which for me would be 100% throttle) and would save me the scare of having the motor spool down inverted etc.

That said I love my new p-10 micro

Tabb

[feathermerchant]

Long as we're talking about sounds, the glow guys complain my electrics are too quiet.
Can I get you to add a Merlin sound (at about 400mph)?
How about a big ol radial for my GeeBee?

[Hovertime]

Thats easy to do-just record desired sound on the tape, and duct tape a boombox to your plane, dont forget to turn bass boost on, and use lipo in it to save weight;)

[Shawn Palmer]

Sheesh Feather - do they complain that they're cleaner, more powerful, and you fly longer than they do as well?

See what glow fuel does to your brain kids? You can have the drugs little Billy - just don't fly fuel......

Shawn

[Bthree]

In the logging department similar to ...
"5) Data collection from use (max/min RPM, Temp, AMPS, Volts) reset on power off"

5a) glitch counter since last download with a reset function.

4a) would most impressed with a Model parameter save by NAME.

7) RPM limiting ... must have ... that would be close to max current limiting ?

8) "brake strength" .. how about brake spool down instead of sharp stop

[RC Man]

The Soft Start and Governor Mode could use some work. The number of poles in the motor effects these functions so the number of motor poles should be input.

1. For the governor mode you should eliminate the two modes (high and low) and replace them with inputs for the maximum motor RPM and the number of poles that the motor has.
2. The Soft Start would use the information above and compute the same spool-up time for all motor combinations. As an additional enhancement you could input the actual spool-up time.

These two improvements would really make life a lot easier for us helicopter flyers. It would also make the governor mode useable for a much wider variety of helicopters. Those very popular micro helicopters as well as some of the larger ones with high pole count motors desperately need these improvements.

[Shawn Palmer]

5a - maybe

4a - coming

7 - coming - but not for use as a amp limitation device - that's up to you.

8 - we may look into how the brake is applied for the future.

RC Man,

1 - hmm.... Gov will get some tweaks for sure - motor pole input would be dicey - VERY few folks actually know that....

2 - start will get a complete overhaul for helis from what we've learned w/the Mamba torque from zero rpm work.

Shawn

[Hovertime]

2 - start will get a complete overhaul for helis from what we've learned w/the Mamba torque from zero rpm work. Shawn
Good news finally!!!! :D :D

[mjdoz]

RC Man,

1 - hmm.... Gov will get some tweaks for sure - motor pole input would be dicey - VERY few folks actually know that....
Shawn

Agree with the lack of knowledge but if you are able to select on number of poles or model / make that should cover most user and have a default for those that don't care don't need it.

I am guessing but all the smarts in this feature would be on the PC which would need to calculate a value to send to the ESC. Motor data could be stored as a simple CSV / TXT format so the upkeep would be comunal not CC resource dependant.

Michael

[TheAeronut]

All these feature suggestions are great, and I would probably take advantage of a number of them. All that aside, the most useful feature that I would like to see implemented is access to the Phx-lnk from my Palm PDA. This would make reprogramming out at the field a lot easier. My palm is with me at all times, but a laptop is a pain to drag along on any given flying trip.

J.P.

[mdegans]

All these feature suggestions are great, and I would probably take advantage of a number of them. All that aside, the most useful feature that I would like to see implemented is access to the Phx-lnk from my Palm PDA. This would make reprogramming out at the field a lot easier. My palm is with me at all times, but a laptop is a pain to drag along on any given flying trip.

J.P.

Yes that would be a killer app, but rather difficult to implement. Only a couple of palm based or pocketpc based pda's can HOST an usb device.
Most of the PDA's are usb clients, but for connection to the Phx-lnk (or any other usb device) you need a host function.
Serial connection is possible, but not to the phx-lnk :)
Maybe Patrick could build a wireless phx-lnk :) bluetooth or wifi, most PDA's can use that, you could even program or read the ESC in flight yeaaahhhh.

Oh well, I'm quit happy with the current version and the planned future possibilities....

Menno

[eparkflyer]

I love it!!!

I can't wait to see the new versions comming up!

Another "feature" I'd like to see in new versions... is... well... change the
version number to reflect the actual version! 8-)

One thing that would be nice is a "whats this?" to many of the options. When
you hover over an option it will explain it more. IE: Cutoff type "hard cutoff - cuts
off instantly" "soft cutoff - pulses the motor upon low battery". Something along those
lines

[FredericG]

I can't wait to see the new versions comming up!

No way the PHX-link SW could become an open source project (managed by CC)? This would probably speed up things.

Frederic

[eparkflyer]

I was thinking the same thing!

when you install phx-link software you get all of the .hex files...

the programming software could be made with info from:
http://www.keil.com/dd/chip/3574.htm
http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab/cygnal/
...along with others

however, open source would be the best!

[FredericG]

I presume that the code that comes from CC is encrypted and decrypted on the controller. Otherwise it would be too simple to reverse engineer de SW.

Frederic

[Patrick del Castillo]

I presume that the code that comes from CC is encrypted and decrypted on the controller. Otherwise it would be too simple to reverse engineer de SW.

Frederic

Yep - 128 bit very strong encryption too. :)

We might make the Phx-Link software open source in the future. But you would have to promise not to laugh at my Windows code.

Patrick

[eparkflyer]

Yep - 128 bit very strong encryption too. :)


Thats what DirecTV said too 8-)

...but honestly, I think open source would be good for everyone. Users would
get more features and more people would buy the phx-link and CC ESC's because
they could do more with them!

[AirCav11]

There's an issue with all open source software that no one has mentioned.
Who does the testing?
I've been a professional software engineer for over 25 years, now a software architect. This issue comes up a lot. The appeal of open source is that you have many people coding for free. Even if the code quality is as good as a full time software engineer (which it often is not), you have the huge problem that anyone doing it on the side does not have the hardware/software/people resources to adequately test the changes accross multiple hardware configurations. Translate that to: how many of you have 10, 20, 30 different motor combinations? On the plank sode, look at how many motor/gearbox combinations there are. Imagine how big the testing matrix becomes when you throw in variations in weight, model, controller version, flying style, enviornmental conditions, etc.

In general, adequate testing of software consumes more time, money, and resources than does writing the code. For those of us who love to write code, testing is generally not viewed as being much fun. Coders do not make the best testers for a number of reasons. The result of this in the commercial software field is that QA is normally handled by a different group that has specialized in testing, not coding.

So the problem remains: Who will do the testing? And who will pay for it?

[Patrick del Castillo]

Thats what DirecTV said too 8-)

...but honestly, I think open source would be good for everyone. Users would
get more features and more people would buy the phx-link and CC ESC's because
they could do more with them!

Yeah, but with DirecTV you could examine both the encrypted and decrypted stream... Without access to the decrypted stream, how are you going to decrypt it? It would be easier to develop the software using the black-box method. :)

If we do allow the open source, we will continue to create "official" versions which will be tested in-house.

Patrick

[utahrc]

So the problem remains: Who will do the testing? And who will pay for it?Open source projects are often better tested than their commercial counterparts in my experience. Most open source projects that I have seen have extensive automated testing that executes with every build, and the fact that the various contributors are not employed by a single company ensures that the software is running in a variety of different hardware and software environments, perhaps more so than in a traditional testing lab.

[mjdoz]

Gentlemen,
We are the ultimate testers. Look back at the early PHX Link threads. It is not practicle nor desirable to test for all possable combinations - especially if you are an ESC manufaturer not a user software developer.

You have a choice jump in early (most of the contributors to this forum do this) and take a risk or sit back for 14 days and watch. I must admit that I did the later in this case as I was travelling for work so could not get my hands on the gear to use it. By the time I got back home the software had been revised and tested - BTW thanks guy's much appreciated - so all I did was updated and enjoyed.

If I am at home when the next update is released one ESC will be updated and tested and this forum monitored. Once I am happy that all is good I will update the other ESC's in my collection. I am also keeping the older software versions on hand so I can roll back if I need to.

Bottom line we the users are the only ones who collectivley can thoughly test the software outside of the basic testing. We are fortunate that CC is willing to be responsive and patch anything we find.

Michael

[Bthree]

Back on the thread topic, a fourth TAB on the screen would be good showing the "about" heading where the software version and date etc. can be put with a revision list for this release

Version control..... what a pain

[eparkflyer]

We are fortunate that CC is willing to be responsive and patch anything we find.

I agree, and thats why I go out of my way to make sure my brushless
controllers are all CC. They stand behind their product.

[jiri]

I would like to see a proportional brake. Will this be possible?

Jiri

[needtofly]

Yes that would be a killer app, but rather difficult to implement. Only a couple of palm based or pocketpc based pda's can HOST an usb device.
Most of the PDA's are usb clients, but for connection to the Phx-lnk (or any other usb device) you need a host function.
Serial connection is possible, but not to the phx-lnk :)
Maybe Patrick could build a wireless phx-lnk :) bluetooth or wifi, most PDA's can use that, you could even program or read the ESC in flight yeaaahhhh.

Menno

You are forgetting the most widely used communications method available for nearly every palm or pocketPc computing device. Infrared!

A simple battery powered device that either:

1) converted the IR signals into USB and vica versa

2) or a stand alone replacement for the usb phx-lnk.

would grant nearly every palm owner the ability to program at the field without a laptop.

Much more convienient than bringing your laptop. Especially for someone who has many mixed battery chemistries (nimh, nicad, lipoly) and hates to break out the laptop every time I change a battery pack.

While I am dreaming... how about an infrared tx/rx (tiny light weight smt ones) on the ESC itself. then all you would have to do is point your palm at the ESC and change settings. yeah, that would be great.

[Hovertime]

While I am dreaming... how about an infrared tx/rx (tiny light weight smt ones) on the ESC itself. then all you would have to do is point your palm at the ESC and change settings. yeah, that would be great.

I wanted to suggest this route for HV controllers with opto-isolator, which makes regular phoenix link implementation problematic.

[feathermerchant]

What if your PDA 'bled over' and reprogrammed your buddy's ESC too? :)

[Lynxman]

I would like to see the opposite of a brake. A function that doesn't stop the motor if it wants to continue running. The reason is I'm wearing out gears in my sub-micro helicopters when it spools down because of the strong braking action of the motor, even with the brake off. I don't want the hassle of a tiny one-way gear. I'm sure there are other geared applications where this function is useful as well.

[Hovertime]

Lynxman-strongest cogging motor I have is razor400, almost impossible to turn it over using fingers and grabbing the shaft. Still-haven't noticed any problems in my Slow stick gears? You may be having some problems there..

[Lynxman]

It's a CD-ROM motor with an 8.6:1 gear ratio so it's a heavy motor to spin:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297221

[Hovertime]

Nice project!!!
I meant - could you spin just the motor without the gears, turning motor shaft with your fingers?

BTW my Ikarus Piccolo main gear wears out with stock motor, perfect mesh and low flight time,,, must be the plastic....

[Lynxman]

Yup. It spins but the cogging is strong. It's not like a shorted (or leaking) motor. I always measure my motors and check for shorts. The gear ratio is very high for his motor, and the gears are mod 0.3 so the resistance on shut-down when the motor isn't running is high.

[lensrc]

A successful example of a way to implement open source would be to emulate the osCommerce open source project. The "owners" release a new version package every so often, implementing new features that have been available as "contributions" on a forum for a long time, and have been debugged by the users. The contributions dont work for all users, and some only work for a few with specific issues that the contribution resolves. These dont usually find their way into a release package, but are still available for those that need them and can make them work.

[Hovertime]

I have already forgotten what a nice list of great features we have to look forward to! :) (first few posts)
I seem to remember that esc controllers were already full, with not much space left to add additional code, would these all new features require new hardware design?

[Dennis Everett]

How about adding a gryo to hold a 3d plane in a hover? Or make it so if your full speed and 2 feet off the ground going stright down it pulls you up?All kidding aside,thease are a bunch of great ideas,And it take a company as great as cc to be able to do it,thanks!!!!Dennis

[GigaMike]

Using a PDA to program your speedo would be GREAT!

[Tim Wolff]

Using a PDA to program your speedo would be GREAT!

Programming from an iPaq would be cool!! And very handy at the flying site.

[Hovertime]

Programming from an iPaq would be cool!! And very handy at the flying site.
NO , make it PALM!!! (Palm m100 that is), all others are not needed!!!
Or better yet-IR link to Nokia 6610 phone . (Also no need for other devices, since thats what I am using currently! )

:D :D Seriously i think relatively few has handhelds, and they are all different, and in most cases not compatible, also their connectivity interface is always changing, or is proprietary, while USB will be here for quite a while.

[lensrc]

I have THE killer new feature! For me anyway! How about being able to actually operate the ESc from the deaktop? As in, plugging in a motor and battery, and spooling up? It would allow more effecient use of the new "forward-reverse" feature.

Whadaya think, Shawn, Pat......Doable?

Len

[Lynxman]

That would be great for motor testing! :)

[lensrc]

Another thought,

If you did this it might be wise to add a spacebar "kill" keystroke, just because, well, sometimes we try stuff we know we shouln't..............:)

Len

[Patrick del Castillo]

I have THE killer new feature! For me anyway! How about being able to actually operate the ESc from the deaktop? As in, plugging in a motor and battery, and spooling up? It would allow more effecient use of the new "forward-reverse" feature.

Whadaya think, Shawn, Pat......Doable?

Len


Ummm, not with the current software. There isn't enough hardware timers available on the chip to both run the controller AND communicate with the high speed USB data. It could be done with a REALLY extensive rewrite of the USB communication ... but we don't really have time right now.

Sorry!

Patrick

[lensrc]

Ahhhhh, Shucks!

Thanks anyway, Patrick. Now go home! Its to late to be worrying about business!

Len

[TheAeronut]

Hovertime: Actually, the basic PalmOne programming interface has remained pretty much the same - which cannot be said for the other handhelds based upon the common and un-reliable desktop OS that the vast majority of computers use. If you were to use the IR port, then it should not be too difficult to get communication between a Palm PDA and an IR adapter for the Castle speed controls. That, and you would have MANY users out there - there are lots of PDAs in use.

Perhaps it might not be too difficult to develop the software for a WinCE (aptly named) or whatever the latest version is.. based PDA as well.

The challenge - that I am sure the fine folks at Castle Creations are up to - would be to make an IR adapter interface for their speed controls. Of course, this would allow you to use ANY IR equipped computer/PDA/phone for which the programming existed.

J.P.

[highflier]

1H A controller that can be reporgramed from AIR -> Car and back.

2H Hard timming settings, I have heard that the timing is just a recommendation to the controller. I have seen a situation were a diff manufacturer had a timing adjustment and when it was set to advanced. the motor opened up a whole new can of wooppp A$$

For the Record CC is great. I have 5-6 of your brushless controllers

Highflier

[Neil Walker]

Something I'd love to see but don't know if it is possible - the ability to set the brake so that it stops the prop in a particular position - namely horizontal. With the popularity of belly-landers it would save alot of busted props.. would even be useful on ships with short gear and big props. I guess you'd have to have some way of setting the position after the ESC had been armed and figured out where the motor was though... and then if you cut the throttle and the prop came to a stop in flight would you be able to "get back" where that position was?

Anyway, it would be a cool feature. APC and GWS probably would hate you for it though.

[Hovertime]

Anyway, it would be a cool feature. APC and GWS probably would hate you for it though.

LOL :D But I think this was discussed before, and was not doable...

[mdlifcrisis]

Long as we're talking about sounds, the glow guys complain my electrics are too quiet.
Can I get you to add a Merlin sound (at about 400mph)?
How about a big ol radial for my GeeBee?

Now thats too funny!
How about those EDF guys..Can ya make it roar like a P&W?
Ok..How about a "MAYDAY MAYDAY"
Just havin fun...
:D

[Nivin37]

How about an easy way to swap between two selectable cut-off Voltages, which are preset with Phx Link. This would allow all of us with LiPo & NiMH packs to use them without lugging our laptops around. My first thought was if power up with throttle at MAX then highest cut-off voltage is selected & if power up was with throttle at MIN then lowest cut-off voltage is selected. I know the throttle settings are currently used, couldn't that also be preset via Phx Link.

Just a thought, :)

Nivin37...