Conversions

[Norman M]

Hi all oldies.!!!
Yesterday I flew my 12 year old Junior 60 for the first time under electric power. Previously it has been flying on a P.A.W. .29 diesel. I know they are smelly but I have been electric for about 4 years now hence the conversion to make use of reasonable airframe.
Power is a speed 600 race with a 2-1 gear box swinging an 12 x 8 APC e prop and fueled by 8 x 2000 cells. I managed to get just over 10 minutes duration and I am well pleased with it. For the record Tim this one has a real L E I S U R E L Y take off. :D
I also have a Rudderbug which used to fly on a Webra 40 four stroke. This is the next one for conversion and I would be glad to receive any advise on power trains for this.

[zl3vml]

Hi.
Got any photo's?
I am rebuilding my 72" Comet Clipper (MKII) and am thinking to power it with a BLDC motor.
Originaly had a PAW 19 up front and 2 Chan radio (Throttle & rudder)
Weight was 3lb 4oz and I could float it around on about half power for level flight.
I am hoping to shave around 1/2 lb in weight with recovering and no paint/fuel proofer etc.
Best performance was with a 11x5 prop on the .19. Ahh good old diesels....

[leccyflyer]

Hiya Norman

Welcome to RC Groups!

It's great to have you here to share your experience.

Enjoy the new forum, if it's attracting modellers such as I'm seeing joining up to post here, it's sure to be a big success.

Brian

[tim hooper]

Hiya Norman

It's great to have you here to share your experience.

Brian

Bri,

You obviously have little knowledge of the evil genius you're referring to here!

Norman is the alleged gentleman who I flew against in the Vintage section at Chester last year, and this apparently affable soul took advantage of my inexperience, and gulled me into making a spirited take-off with my Super Scorpion as it would help in the breezy conditions - or so he said. In the event, the judges marked me down for not making a characteristically slow ascent, thus giving our Norm, and his oh-so-slow Big Scorp the winning flightscore.

Be warned, OK?

tim ;)

[Norman M]

Hi Tim.
It wasn't the take off that did it bu the NGA logo on the fin, not too many of them about!!!!!. If you want to take off slower than my latest (Junior 60) you will have to go backwards. Will you be going to Blackpool on the 30th if so I will see you then

Norm

[bolmas]

isnt it nice to see a vintage model that has decent covering,not that awful transparent film! heres my hearns hg3 freeflighter thats covered in h/w tissue and had hundreds of flights.

[radioflier]

Bolmas -

So what advice do you for us that are 'covering-challenged'? :rolleyes:

[bolmas]

this is my favourite method

cover first in l/w tissue in the normal way and watershrink. one coat of 50/50 dope and thinners.then balsaloc and cover in airspan. shrink just enough to sit it on the tissue. 2 coats of 50/50 banana oil and thinners to seal the surface.the tissue pulls the structure up tight and the airspan makes it reasonably puncture resistant

if you have a flexible wing and put film on then you still have a flexible wing.solarfilm was originally invented to give a good surface on obechi veneer applied over foam wings in the very late sixties, not to cover open structures.

[vintage1]

Oh, I dunno...this one was done in polyester for the wings (I still have the wings) and red solarflim.

Its my first scratcher..since the 60's...abut the time I discovered E-zone, and its called Vintage-1 :D

(well actually its more vintage1 MK III, the first one broke its fuselage, go a new one, then broke its wings, and then I re-made the whole thing a bit stronger and lighter. Speed 400 geared. It flew well really)

[Gerald]

this is my favourite method

cover first in l/w tissue in the normal way and watershrink. one coat of 50/50 dope and thinners.then balsaloc and cover in airspan. shrink just enough to sit it on the tissue. 2 coats of 50/50 banana oil and thinners to seal the surface.the tissue pulls the structure up tight and the airspan makes it reasonably puncture resistant
I've been doing nearly the same thing on a larger .60 sized bipe. Except that I used lightweight silkspan instead of tissue, then light (9g/sqyd) silk over that using nitrate dope. It really works excellent, but then you have the trouble of having to cover the model twice :o

Where do you get banana oil these days?

[Geoff Northmore]

I've used a dress making material - named Vilene - successfully. In appearance it looks similar to the rag tissue of old. Vilene is used for stiffening in dress making i.e. for collars and cuffs. It's made in various weights and some even have an iron on adhesive backing - just like Solatex etc. It does not shrink with water, but does tighten a trifle with heat. I apply a light weight non adhesive type with full strength PVA. It can be pulled out for a wrinkle free surface, but don't go mad with any tugging. Use a very sharp knife to trim the edges. Do not sand them unless you like a wooly rim finish. Use a well loaded brush of diluted dope and do not brush the dope out otherwise you'll raise the surface fibres and create a million little balls to pick off - such fun. I then apply tissue using PVA, water shrink then full strength dope to complete. This creates a pretty tough covering that resists most normal use - digits just bounce off. Most importantly Vilene is cheap - about 1-2 pounds per square yard or metre the last time i purchased it.
Give it a whirl when you next go to get material for your dress making!!!

[vintage1]

You can still get Jap silk from specialist places - its used for stage scenery apparently.

I have never found anything to beat silk for strength.

[Tim Trick]

Just to add another Junior 60.

This is my second version, the first being ppwered by a magnum 40 - finally met its demise when a wing band broke at approx 80 feet-spiralled in!

Last autumn I bought a Ben Buckle Junior 60 (electric) and converted it to AXI 2820 on 7 KAN 3000 NIMH pack from Overlander with an MA elctric wood 12x prop. I didn't like the rudder area on the Buckle kit and still had the old rudder from my first junior 60 (Flair Junior 60, rudder now 19 years old!), so modified the fin and installed that.

Had a slight problem getting the CG correct as the AXI is lot lighter than the motor/gearbox used for the kit protoype, but that was solved. She now flies like a dream and floating around the sky on 1/4 throttle (approx 6-7 amps) I have had measured flights of 31 minutes per pack! (including a few touch and goes per flight) With three 7 cell packs-who needs LiPo's?

Sorry-no flying pics yet-maybe one day. Anyone else dropped an Axi into a Junior 60 or Lanzo Recordbreaker?

Tim

[vega]

Hi,

here's a rubber to electric conversion I am working on at the moment. A Keil Kraft Gypsy. I've made a few structural mods, shortened the nose a bit and a made some wing spar mods. The u/c will be removable too. Proposed urge will be a Simprop 250 Slow Drive and 7 * 250 mAh nicads for starters and to see if the project will fly :)

cheers

Jon

[tim hooper]

Hi,

here's a rubber to electric conversion I am working on at the moment. A Keil Kraft Gypsy.

vega,

I remember my childhood pal having one of these! :) I seem to recall around 35 feet of rubber turning a 17" carved balsa prop. It flew superbly and, to my 10 year old perspective, it seemed huge at around 40" span.

tim

[vega]

vega,

I remember my childhood pal having one of these! :) I seem to recall around 35 feet of rubber turning a 17" carved balsa prop. It flew superbly and, to my 10 year old perspective, it seemed huge at around 40" span.

tim

Hi Tim,

I decided to build an electric version after remembering watching one that my dad built that floated around on a half motor, and with a 14" prop. A Wake' with the full armament of 4 ounces of quarter flat is an awesome sight though! maybe my version 2 will have to be fitted with a brushless powerhouse, probably cheaper than rubber strip these days :) The wing at 40" looks a bit tiny to support the 8+ ozs of the original, but fingers crossed the electric one won't come out too heavy! should be clattering around the skies soon I hope.

Jon

[vintage1]

I built one of those. never got it trimmed right and it ended up as matchwood. I was only about 13 tho :(

It SHOULD fly a dream on IPS/280 sort of power...

[Geoff Northmore]

This is my double sized K.K. Eaglet. The plan I worked from was an i.c version published in a British magazine. The plan was heavily over engineered so some judicial lightening and structural changes were made to bring it more akin to the original structure. The umph is provided by a Speed 400 plus gear box using an 8 cell 500AR pack. The model flies well and is mildly aerobatic. Just for interest the fuselage sides, where fingers grasp it, are doubled covered with Vilene beneath normal orange tissue. Lastly I built a K.K. Eaglet kit circa 1947 - it was the first successful rubber model I ever flew.

[A10driver]

hi NORMAN M
thanks for the info i have put a 600 race with a 2.8 box on
12 x7 prop will have to suck it and seehow it goes i used to be in the cheshire
club i am hoping to take the jackjaw to chester on the 20 june in the vintage com
if it flys???

cheers A10

[G Man]

Miss Arpiem. 1937 design.

[Norman M]

Hello G Man.
That is a real pretty aeroplane, can we have some details please like size, weight, power-train and most of all how it performs.
Norman M

[Norman M]

Hi A10driver.
Glad to be of help. Of course the lightest and most efficient way is to go brushless but expensive. I will also be at Chester and being a member of the Chester club I will be working, flight line duties mainly, brobably see you there.
Norman M

[G Man]

Sure Norman! Wingspan is 68", powered by Magnetic Mayhem Reverse on the 3:1 GP box. 8 cell 1950 NiMH. Weight, if I remember correctly was somewhere between 3 and 3.5 pounds. Performance is excellent. Takeoff in about 15 feet, easily flies at half throttle, and flies for a little over ten minutes using different throttle settings throughout flight. Anything else, just ask. :)

[ETIGER05]

JUST WANTED TO ADD FOR THOSE STILL SEARCHING BOB HOLMAN HAS MANY PLANS /KITS FOR OT MODELS INCL. RUBBER & F/F R/C www.bhplans.com quality is good nice plans

[A10driver]

HI NORMAN M
do you know where i can get a set of plans for
a rudderbug .i was going to ask you at chester
but forgot all about itwith taking pic,s for the young lady
and keeping out of the rain would the same power train
do that you have got in the junior 60 do for the rudderbug
i hav got a webra T40 in a red zephyr going to put elec in that
what i dont know yet
cheers A10

[Norman M]

Hi A10 Driver.
Nice to meet up with you at Chester. I have the plan of the 'Rudderbug' so drop me an e-mail and we will sort something out. Mine at the moment is powered by a 'Webra 40 fourstroke' and I am wondering how to 'E' power it. It is quite a bit bigger than the Junior 60 and somewhat chunkier, if I remember correctly it carries 6 square feet of wing area. Personally, I dont think the Race 600 will be 'Man' enough for it.My own thoughts keep coming back to a Speed gear 700 on 10 or 12 cells. The front end on the'Bug' is quite narrow and this rather reduces yopur options without major surgery.
I went out tonight with my Junior 60 having increased the cell count from 8 to 9. The performance is not as good as it is with 8 cells Just shows you nothing is written in tablets of stone in this game :rolleyes: .
Regards.
Norman M

[Norman M]

Sure Norman! Wingspan is 68", powered by Magnetic Mayhem Reverse on the 3:1 GP box. 8 cell 1950 NiMH. Weight, if I remember correctly was somewhere between 3 and 3.5 pounds. Performance is excellent. Takeoff in about 15 feet, easily flies at half throttle, and flies for a little over ten minutes using different throttle settings throughout flight. Anything else, just ask. :)
HELLO G Man.
Here's a belated thank you for the information,you have worked hard to achieve a weight as low as that.
regards.
Norman M

[A10driver]

hi norman m
did you get my email i sent you having trubble
with email,s of late
cheers A 10

[jmabbott888]

This is my 1st post here, so far I've seen alot of really nice planes here. I have plans for a 1928 Curtiss Robin in 1 1/2" = 1' scale, the plane will have a 61" wingspan, weight is 5lbs & is powered by a .45 gas motor. My question is what would be a good electric motor for this plane? I've built a few Guillows rubber powered kits, but this will be my 1st R/C plane (from what I've heard a tail dragger isn't the best as a first but I like the plane lol). Any input would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks again in advance.

[tim hooper]

jmabbot,

Welcome to the RC Groups discussions! :)

You're really jumping in at the deep end for a first RC model, aren't you? Can I offer a little advice, and suggest that you learn to fly on something a little more basic first? There's many a free-flighter who found that RC wasn't quite as easy as it looks to begin with, and it would be a shame to risk a handcrafted model that way.

If you really want help with the Curtiss, then the Scale forum is probably the best place to ask. Someone may already have the job already!

Here's the link to the Scale mob;

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10

tim

[Norman M]

Hi A10 driver
Yes I received your e-mail and replied. Clearly you didn't receive it so I will try sending it again. No problem with the plan, if you wish you can borrow it and maybee get a copy from it.

Norman M

[jmabbott888]

Tim, thanks for the welcome, My local hobby shop told me the same thing basically today, so I think I'll take yours & threir advise lol. I was told there, that its best to start out with a trainer .40-.60 first then go from there & the electronics can be put in any other plane later on. I'm still planning on building the Curtiss, but I think I'll wait on flying it. Thanks again for the advise.

[tim hooper]

jmabbott,

I know it might seem like your going backwards here, but there's a wealth of information to be had in the Beginners forum;

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8

Take a peep at the 'stickied' threads - you can learn the rudiments of flying with a simple foamie model using cheap microgear and a simple S400 motor.

tim

[A10driver]

HI NORMAN M

did you get my e mail and picture of the jackdaw
you were right the rudder bug is chunky WHAT DO I POWER IT WITH???? i will put a build thread on when i start . that is if
i can sort out how to put the pic,s on the pc not very good at that
have had the plan copyed will get it back to you this week with a note i am still having trubble with e mails i must get more steam up to run the pc

cheers A10 DRIVER

[Greg D]

Some years ago I had built an Astoflight kit of the old Clevland Models Viking. Instead of E power like it had been redesigned for I used an OS 15FP on it. I flew that plane for 5 years before selling it at an RC auction (temporary lapse of reason). I wish I still had it I'd convert it back to electric.

[Norman M]

[QUOTE=A10driver]HI NORMAN M

did you get my e mail and picture of the jackdaw
you were right the rudder bug is chunky WHAT DO I POWER IT WITH???? i will put a build thread on when i start . that is if
i can sort out how to put the pic,s on the pc not very good at that
have had the plan copyed will get it back to you this week with a note i am still having trubble with e mails i must get more steam up to run the pc

Hi A10 Driver.
Yes I seceived your e mail and I have dropped you a line this evening.
Cheers Norman M

]

[mtbrider]

Just picked up a Black Magic wanted to take my A test and then to sell but I rather like the look of it, thinking of 7 cells and borrowing my Astro 05 brushed motor for it. Our field has very long grass and hopefully that will bive it enough grunt.
Did I miss the Chester electric show?, saw last years in the QEFI and wanted to see it in the flesh this year.

[Airboatflyingshp]

Hi this is just a suggestion but by going to The Plan page :cool: and downloading the stuff on this one ..then setting my printer to poster print 16 xA4 sheets max - I ended up with a 20% larger version of this beauty. Hank Cole's Smoothie struck me as another but a more challenging build candidate from the same source. I was struck by how good it might be as a S400/480 geared electric.
That wing alone is such a beautiful classic shape its got to be worth a try??

Oh another from The Plan Page - Joe Otts very very vintage Kingfisher land or float versions shown. Different spans ....great features, removable power pod....biggger span lighter wing load.