longer aerobird challenger flying time

[Wingtips24]

Hey everyone I am pretty new to this myself but it has been awsome so far. I am thinking about getting an aerobird challenger. I currently have an Firbird Outlaw and a yellow bee. ( Picked em myself HA haa ) .... now I am thinking about getting an areobird Challenger. I am really impressed with the reviews and research comparitively that I have done and have settled on this when funds permit. One thing I was wondering since I know that so much is able to be manipulated in some way is how can get some longer flight times out of this thing. It looks like 12 -15 minutes is the max. My yellow bee gets about 20 minutes and after seeing the difference from my outlaw (10 minutes) I realized that I must find a way to fly longer. Can you build your own packs for this plane? I was also wondering what the differences in battery types are and what the difference is between 6 or 7 cells. It seems different packs provide different outputs. Is that true. Also can I take apart old Battery packs that came with my RTF and combine them to make longer lasting or more powerful Battery packs? Do 6, 7,8,9 cell battery packs give more power or longer flights. Also I keep hearing about brushless motors with flight times. What are those and whats the difference. Also.. I have alot of questions... as you can see, Can you change the motors in the aerobird c. I am going. My main questions is on the flight times but have all types of questions. Can anyone help?

[agoorfin]

More cells will simply give you more volts and as a result, more speed. What you need for longer run times are packs made with cells that have a higher mAh rating.

[aeropal]

I am thinking about getting an aerobird challenger.
Also consider the Ready-To-Fly version of the EasyStar (http://www.hobbyhorse.com/multiplex.shtml). The radio can easily be adapted to future models.
It seems different packs provide different outputs.
P-Calc (http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma.asp) will show the simulated results of different element changes.
I keep hearing about brushless motors
Electric Flight FAQ's (http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/efaq.htm)

[Wingtips24]

Wow do you know where I can get some cell packs with higher ratings. I would love to have 25 minute flights. Also will it be heavier to have a higher rating. I was also wondering what makes one battery different from another. Seems like there are so many types?

[aeropal]

do you know where I can get some cell packs with higher ratings
Cheap Battery Packs (http://www.unipros.com/cbpsite/packs.asp?cat=AIR&session_id=133382) is one resource. Other vendor links (http://members.aol.com/KMyersEFO/mfg.htm). Although very frustrating to use, there is also a "Our Sponsors" link at the top-right corner of this webpage.

[Ken-Ohki]

My aerobird flys 15 ta 20 minutes, but I also fly 1/2 power most of the time, and even no power at some points, The ABC glides real nice. Someplace I saw some 1100 mah batterys that would work with the ABC. The 6 cell packs will give longer run times then the 7 cell packs of the same capasity. But the 7 cell packs will fly faster. the additional 1.2 volts makes a big difference in power. The plane will also glide much better with the 6 cell pack. The best way to get more flytime is to go up high and glide, learn to find thermals and take advantage of natural lift. The second best way to get more flytime is to get more packs charge them at home or at other times when you are not flying,, then just peak them at the field wile you are flying. I use a duel charger that clips on my trucks battery, And have a splitter on my cigg ligher do can charge 4 packs at once. I usualy use 3 900 6 cell packs for my ABC and I use 2 7 cell 900 packs for my SS, Estarter, and Cobra. I generaly dont have to wait to go back up after landing, something is almost always peaked and ready to go. However, after 3 hours or so, I start to have to wait for them. The charge time starts to exceede the backup packs buffer flight time. I dont use my 7 cell pack on the abc. I have read it will burn out the motor conciderably quicker, especial if you are a full throttle type of flyer. You could change out the motor if you can get inside it to do the job.

The ABC can lift 1/2 pound easy as long as it is centered on the CG. the 7 cell packs naturaly lift better then the 6 cell packs. I havent tried it, but Im sure you could stick another standart 900mah battery in paralel for extended flight times. Just have to make a lead long enough to get to the CG for the second battery mount.

I saw someone suggest Lipolys for the ABC. The abc 6 cell 7.2 pack weighs 5 oz and gives 900 Mah,, the 7 cell 8.4 weighs just under 6 oz for 900 mah. you could get 3000 or so mah for under 6 oz at 7.4 volts with lipoly. But I think you might have a issue with the aerobirds BEC. Im not sure what its cutoff voltage is, and I know Lipollys are touchy about how far you can drain them, so might want to look into that some from a more knowelageble source on lipolys. Do not even concider Lipolly is you are still in your crashing allot phase. They are concidered a bit dangerouse, and you should definitly read up on them and there use and care.


What makes batterys differnt? whats inside of course. Differnet cemical compositions and such. How they are assembled, Different grade ingrediants all doing there little part.

Brushless motors are Ac motors driven by a special controler. they are more powerfull for less weight, and if im not mistaken less amp draw, but I could be wrong on that last one. Brushless on a aerobird would kinda be a wast of a 135 ta 200 brushless setup.

Building packs? Yes, you can build your own packs. Hope you are good with a soldering iron. you will need at least a 45 watt one, I use a 120 watt one for mine. Be carefull you do not mix battery types, you cant put nimhi and nicad together. Also make sure all the cells are of fairly equal age/use. Dont put old and new cells together. There is reading here on the forum about matching cells for a pack and building packs.Also do not put cells of differnt capasity together,, you cant put a 600 mah cell with a 900 one.


differnce between 6,7,8 or however many cells?
more cells = more power, more rpms more thrust.more wear and tear and less life on the motor. Most motors you are using now will be 6 volt motors. We run them at more then 6 volts to get teh preformance we need for flight. A 6 volt motor at 6 volts isnt much good to R/c pilots. but, a 6 volt motor at 7 or 8 or 12 volts can really deliver some power, but at a cost of motor life. generaly 6 cells at 900 mah will fly longer then 7 or 8 cells at 900 mah. But, the 7 or 8 cell packs will get you up there faster and let you fly on less throttle,, so with carefull management,, you can get longer flights. But not becuse its more volts so it will run longer. Becuse you can climb faster, and fly on less throttle.

Guess that addresses all your curent questions as well as additional comentary. This place thrives on questions, its why it is here.. There is already a large volume of information about the ABC and mods.

Now before I hit Post, Ill add but one more thing. 160 bucks or so will get you a aerobird complete. But for just a littel more money, say 210 or so, you can get put together a radio plane combo and have a radio you can move from plane to plane as you go,, the aerobirds radio is only good for a aerobird. You could hack it into another V-tail, but generaly its a 1 plane radio. If you are seriousely concidering keeping this as a hobby you might want to think a bit further down the road as to what your needs are, especialy if money is tight.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Man thanks for all the info I love reading this stuff, I learn so much. You answered so many of my questions. I was wondering about when you said that I could get a radio with the challenger if you meant in place of as in they will swap it out and charge me the difference or in addition two meaning will now have 2 radios. Cause I would certainly consider getting a diff radio if I could use it on another plane. I was looking into getting a slow stick next perhaps.
Also I know even less about radios can you recommend a decent one to start researching on and tell me what makes one good and what I should be looking for in a good radio that will take me down the road of rc planes. I was also wondering since the motors don't seem to be that expensive for the aerobird is therre anything else I can burn up by adding higher MAh. I am looking for a way to get 20 to 25 minutes. How would you go about doing it.
Are there any particular names brands and places I should look. I don't think I am quite ready to begin building my own batteys yet but I would love to find an off the shelf pack that would fit and give me 25 or more minutes of flight. Bye the way how does that setup you have work for charging on your truck you used alot of abbreviations for things I never heard of like BEC and lipolys. As you can see I am really really new at this. I am still in my crash stage though I finally think I am beginning to get the hang of it. I have read some of the mods for the aerobird such as the motor mount brace. Are there any other ones that you can think of off the top of your head to look out for?

[Ken-Ohki]

The radio for the ABC ( aerobird challenger ) is not movable from plane to plane. You need to buy a seperate radio ( that will not fly the ABC ) in order to fly other planes.. If you buy it seperatly, you can move it plane to plane, but not to planes that come with there own radio. ( in most cases ). hope thats clearer now.

I would look at a "Hitek Flash 5" for a radio, there are of course hundreds to choose from. But i like Hiteck. I ould suggest a min of 5 chan,, 4 chan maybe, but you are better off with 5 or even more chans on the radio. You could make due with a cheaper 3 chan radio, but, you will grow out of it and need to replace it pretty soon.

Lipoly is a specific type of battery. very high mah, very low weight, but they can explode and catch fire if not charged right,, drained to low, or crashed, or even just droped on the hard floor, definitly not for beginers. But always a option for the daring.

The BEC ( battery elimination circute ) tells your plane to turn the motor off when the battery gets to a certain level of discharge, but allows you to maintain control of your plane. It resurves voltage to run your control surfaces.

Adding MAH ( milliamp hours ) is adding capasity, and you will not burn anything out by adding a battery with more mah.. Voltage however is a different story.To much voltage and things will start to fry. I would not go over 8.4 on a aerobird. ( 7 cell pack ) You could fry the circuite bard in the ABC. I am not sure how much voltage you can pour into a ABC, but i know the 7 cell pack is acceptable.. I personly dont use the 7 cell in my ABC. DOnt need it... As far as batteries, You will not find much better for the ABC then what it comes with,,, there are packs for similure weights what supply a little more.. Learn to glide, and get more packs is your best, safest bet for more flight time.

The SS or "slow stick" is concidered one of the best beginer planes. I concider the ABC a good beginer plane as well. but the ABC is faster, requireing faster reflexes.. the Ss is slow and gives you more time to think wile flying.

as far as charging,,, I spent 69 bucks on a charger that will charge 2 packs at once,,,, it clips onto my battery inmy truck when i pop the hood. Then I put a splitter plug on my ciggarette lighter, so I can plug 2 chargers into the outlet instead of 1.. If you buy a charger, make sure it is a peak charger.





Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[rutat]

FWIW, That was a great answer! Nice to have folks here who share info.

[Wingtips24]

Okay thansk so much for breaking down the acronyms. I get it with the battery packs. I was wondering about charging them two. Is there some special way of charging ABC batteries specifically and other batteries generally that make them last longer in flight. I hear alot about "peaking them" befor flight. Does that just mean hitting them with juice for 10 or 20 miutes right before you fly to sort of top them off so to speak. Also with the transmitters the main question I had was wether I would recieve 2 transmitters or just be charged the difference of the original in the box aerobird tarmitter. ( i.e aerobird transmitter 30 buck s , Flash five = 70 differnce 40 more and I get one transmitter) or do I purchase a second one all together.
You mentioned that you can have 5 channels , I have even heard of 7, what one earth could you use the rest for, my guess is extra stuff like landing gears and such.
Looks like the tiger moth is also a great starter plane form what I have heard. Do you have a top 5 or 6 favorite and most highly recommended list you could share. I would love to do some research on them. Can a slow stick do aerobatics like loops. I saw a few videos of them flying.
By the way I really appreciate you taking out time to help a new winger get off the ground. Many of us new wanna be pilots look up in the sky and want to fly with you aces and its a real priveledge that this hobby has such a helpful network of support. A real drawwing point to the sport. Anyway I'll be here cooking up some more questions to ask, I am learning so much. I have read threads for 2 1/2 hours and did not even realize it.
Thaks again

[Ken-Ohki]

Battery care

there are many different opinions, and many little bits of fact that each can be interperated many ways. In general..

All Nicad packs and nimhi packs charge pretty much the same,, You can charge a nicad pack at a faster rate then nimhi. But Nicads and nimhi are very different batterys. Use a nimhi charger, or the nimhi setting to charge one. Now Lipoly, they require a special charger, and special care.

as a general rule, You will get better charges if you slow charge ( charge at much less then the batterys capasity ) but the effect of doing so isnt really that much,, a few min at best in a perfect world.

Peeking a pack is just putting a pack on the charger to top it off, rechargables lose power when they sit. Most of us charge at home before hand, then just top them off at the field to make sure they are as charged as possible.

Back to radios.. I still sence confusion..
The ABC comes with it own radio. You do not need to buy another to fly it. BUT. you may not use that radio to fly any other plane.. If you want to get another plane,, Like a slow stick, or a Estarter, or whatever,, You will have to buy a seperate radio. One that dosent belong to any specific plane. Once you buy a stand alone radio,, planes are pretty cheap. but your stand alone radio wont fly the ABC. I mentioned a "real" radio to you becuse you said funds were tight. If they are,, you might be better off forgetting the abc, and going with a "real" radio and a Slow stick or something. Hope I got it that tme ;)

what do you need the chans for?
1 throttle
2 rudder
3 ailerons ( some setups require 2 channels for ailerons )
4 elivator
5 flaps
6 retractable landing gear
7 camera shutter
8 landing lights
9 Im sure there are moer things you could shove on a plane ;)

The slow stick will do light aerobatics, Loops, Inverted flight, stalls, Corckscrew rolls, and several others.

Sugested planes.

SLow stick
ABC
E-Starter
Tiger Moth

Ive flown them all, they are all decent planes. There are of course many more that perhaps others will suggest.

You are more then welcome for the help. As you can see I can be a little long winded ;P But hopefully it is mostly usefull information to you. Getting others in the air is benificial to us all, the more of us there are, the more chances we have at places to fly and stuff.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken
you dont have to worry about being long winded you can chat on as long as you want, I look forward to reading it when I check so please by all means chat away my friend. Yea I think I understand now about the radios. It was the not getting the Aerobird part I was missing. I thought I was going to have 2 controllers. You were talking about ditching the ABC idea all together. Ahhhhh I see.
With the battery charging are you saying that it is best to charge a bat for a short period of time say 15 minutes then stop then charge for 15 more minutes then stop so on and so on. What does that do. My guess is give it a rest and let the charge settle?? Also how do you know when to stop. I feel a battery charger recomendation commin on. I would imagin the peak charger you spoke of tells you when to quit. Do the make charges that takes breaks while it charges for you, that would be nifty. I guess you also have to be real good to controll all those diiferent channels. What is the difference between an aileron, flaps,and an elavator and which is where on the plane? By the way what would you do if you only have about 225 or so to spend, I got my heart all in a flutter over the ABC but at the same time I want to be wise. Do people tipically change the parts out of planes too like the transmitter or do you by separate inerds and just swap transmitters.
Also ( there is alot of also's have you noticed?) what do you think of the pico stick I saw it when i looked up the slow stick it was new. I also see that there are two diff motors available for the SS. Which do you recommend. I was thinking of going ahead and getting an SS and slowly putting it together as I learn on the Aerobird. Not sure but I have a bit of time as I don't yet have the money together. Any thoughts??

[Ken-Ohki]

ok now, we got the radio issue down. back to batterys.

I said you should slow charg them, way below the batterys capasity. That means that if it is a 900 mah pack, charging it at 100 mah will give a slightly better charge then charing it at 900 mah. at 100 mah it will take about 9 ta 10 hours to charge, at 900 mah it would take about a hour..I did not suggest charging for awile, stoping then starting again,, When you are charging, you should do it uninterupted. from dead to charged in 1 sitting. However..... Once you charge a pack it will loose voltage sitting there. SO, right before use, you put it on charge to top it off. Provided your charger is a peak charger,, it will stop charging all on its own. If you buy a non peak charger you are asking for problems and putting your packs at risk.

I am using a wattage duel variable rate peak charger. Its the only one I have or have used that is any real good, There are of course hudreds to choose from,, Just make sure it is a PEAK charger, Prefure it to have variable amps, and able to charge from 4 ta 10 cell packs. Not all chargers are created equal. I will point out here that the ABC comes with a suitable peak charger for itself.

a elivater gives you up and down control. and is on the tail
Ruder gives you left to right control . and is on the tail
throttle, well thats self explanitory.

Those are the basic controls

Ailerons give you roll control, and are on the wings
Flaps help you fly slower, land slower, and take off in a shorter distance , and are on the wings.

One you have a "Real" radio, swapping out componets is a common thing. Some people buy differnt flight packs for each plane. ( flight pack is a set of servos, and a reciver. the flight pack fits in the plane.) Some people set up each plane with its own servos, and swap out the reciver from plane to plane, and Yet others move the entire flightpack from plane to plane as they like. In all listed cases above, the same "real" radio can be used on many planes. ( one at a time of course ) This is the only downside of going with a ABC, the ABC flightpack does not move, it is permanant to the plane. You will have to rebuy a radio system to go with something like the SS IF you get the ABC.

I understand the picostick to be a indoor flyer. It tolerates even less wind then a SS. Mine came with the 350 motor C gearing. I have no complaints with it, I hear allot of people like the d gearing. The 400 will preform marginaly better, but should also last longer. ( that is not burn out as fast,,not fly longer on a charge,, in fact, it will fly less on a charge ) Yhe 400 will handle a 8 cell pack longer then the 350 or 300. But is also heavery.

I am on my way to work, so dont have time to supply links and exact prices on the web for a Ss setup . But, this is pretty close.

SS 35 bucks
5 chan hitek flash 5 with servos and reciver 165 ( expensive yes, but worth it )
( a 3 chan radio can be had for about 75 bucks if you cant swing the 5 chan )
15 amp esc 30 bucks or so.
( some use a 10, I use a 20, larger ESC's cost mroe but are more usefull later with other planes )
7 cell aerobird 900 man pack 30 bucks
( 6 and even 8 cell packs are used by others at Variable mah rating from 400 ta 1100 or more )
Peak charger 25 bucks and up
time spent in the air... Priceless ( hehe couldnt resist )

If you already own a aerobird, You will be able to reuse the charger and even the battery. a 6 cell will fly a SS but the 7 cell is more powerfull ( yes 8 is more powerfull too but will burn your motor out to fast for my taste ) So it might not be as costly as I have laid out. WHen you buy a new radio, it comes with a charger for itself, so dont worry about that. True,, this is a bit more costly then doing the aerobird. BUT. if you break the SS 35 bucks gets you a new one, and ther are a pile of planes you can buy for under 50 bucks and reuse all the radio/servo stuff, making your next plane so much more cheaper... ( cant do that with a ABC )

Time for me to head for work, I can hear the lobster callimg my name waiting for my attention. ( I work for a lobster broker on the coast ) I have got to knock together a seaplane to fly out there hehehe. Maybe it will scare some of the seagulls away..

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Decisions decisons, I see your point about comparing the ABC with the SS and its parts. It seems like from mant of the postings I read most folks can hardly pass up eventually getting an ABC even if they started somewhere else. It kinda makes me want it even more though I have now gotten interested in the idea of getting a few planes and building them as I more slowly get the parts to fit in them. I was reading the thread on the AB Xtreame aand I saw you mentioned about using gorilla glue and even mixng water in it to make it foam. What was that about. I was alos wondering what glues you use and for what purposes. I love 5 miute epoxy but I have learned that it is heavy and brittle. I too have become a master at reapir in my short career as a wannabe pilot. I have broken my yellow bee wing in 4 places and roipped the tail in half dislocated the boom, completley lost the front 2 inches of the plane in the the dirt ( could not even find the pieces ) and busted off the canopy( has none now )........ but she flies still moo haa haa haa! And to top it off on the second flight..... kidding that was a combination of about 12 flights. Anyway I have been trying to figure out which glues to use where. So far I have CA, Krazy Glue , Super Glue,and my beloved 5 minute Expoxy. I have seen that there is 5 minute 6, 15 and slow cure. Am I correct in thinking that the slower the cure the better the hold cause who would want slow cure just for the heck of it?
Particularly which glues work best on foam and plastic since those seem to be my biggest repairs? I have learned that glues really do add in weight, my plane is noticabl;e slower with the added weight. One fix I ws particularly proud of ( for strength not looks ) was when the boom broke I took a small amount of epoxy and put a thin coat just to barly freez it in place. The I took anothe small dab and lightly wet 1' befor the break and 1' afetr with expoxy and wrapped a small piece of duck tape around the wet epoxy. after that dried I encassed the duck tape in epoxy. Can you say strong! Oh yea heavy but strong, I look to stay in the air not look good for now. :D
So any repair techniques you can recommend would be helpful. I want to get an Estarter and SS and Tiher moth. Can you use the came inerds for all three? Oh and I love lobster by the way that made me hungry when you said that.

[Ken-Ohki]

Looks like it will be the ABC for you then, Dont get me wrong now,, I love my ABC, I just wanted to make sure you understuood the ramifications of that purchase as opposed to buying all componets seperatly. Im not sure id say most everyone eventualy get a ABC sooner or later. They definitly have some strong advantages. But I have heard more then one person say they love there ABC but wish they would have bought a radio and plane seperate in the long run. I dont regret buying my ABC, I knew before hand I would need a seperate radio to move furhter on in the hobby, But the ABC is a good value. I fly mine in winds in excess of 15 MPH. I remember when a 5 mile a hour wind made me scared to fly hehehe.

I almost cringed when I saw you mention the extream hehe. Stay clear of that bird until you have more stick time in a 3 chan or greater plane. Not for beginers. But, ill tell ya a secret about it, ( ok maybe not a secret ) the ABC and the ABX use the same radio, so you can buy a Extream fusilage,battery, wing and tail seperatly and use your old ABC radio as long as you get the extream on the same chan. ( the fusilage comes with the flight pack pre-installed ) Doing it this way will knock like 50 bucks off the price of the extream.

Most of my wing repairs on the ABC have been done souly with Scotch "mailing" tape. Pay close attention when buying tape, all tape is not created equal. I have repaired folded wings, and even severed wings with nothing but the tape. Flew the crap out of them, including the manuvers that folded the wings in the first place. It holds solid.

Glues and epoxy.
I love my 5 min epoxy too, I dont care how much weight it ads,But, it is also ridgid and non flexable, Only usefull in certain situations. You do have to remember that when gluing, you are adding weight ( ok ok, you knew that ) BUT,. you are also changing the center of gravity ( CG ) if you add weight to the back with a repair, you need to add some on the front to regain CG. very very small weight additions are probably not gonna mess with CG to to much,, but 2 or 3 start to add up. That tape and epoxy deal on your boom has definilty affected CG. Most often then not,, CG is not where the manufacturer says it is, Where they say it is, Is often more of a suggested starting point, You kinda have to mess with it to achieve best preformance.. Even if you think its flying good,, a slight CD adjustment could change it to flying great. Balance is very important.

I do not even own a bottle of CA. but it has its uses.
Now on to gorilla glue. This is a very (very) strong glue that dries semi flexable. It also foams wile it sets insuring it gets down into crevisis and gives you a good grip. And is Foam freindly. When using gorilla glue, the manufacturer recomends the thigns to be glued be damp., I discoverd for myself on the gorilla glue website that mixing it with water before aplication will make it foam more and set faster. Becuse the Extream was such a heavey bird, I used both the gorilla glue and the tape on the wing. I do not use crazy or super glue, they eat most foams and in my experience , they arent that strong compared to epoxy. Also, longer cure times usualy mean more strenght, sometimes depending on product more flexability, and less weight.

The SS, Estarter, Tigermoth and pretty much any other plane that dosent come with its own radio, can be flown on the same radio, reciever, ESC and servos. ( flightpack ) not all planes come with there own motors, but the GWS ones we are discusing do. Some planes require small or larger servos, but hs-55's are pretty much standart for planes like we are discussing.

[RC Sumo]

Ken.....dont forget with the extreme you have to use the bigger batteries. Just another cost to consider when jumping to that plane......I am still tempted by buying one on the same channel as my ABC. I think this is my first post on RCGroups, I have been logging and posting on RCUniverse. Good to see more quality postings in here as well. I have been enjoying my ABC's drop module immensely. Currently I rigged a ling to carry about 10 of those little paper snaps that you throw on the ground. Great little simulated carpet bombing....giggle factor through the roof.

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

I figured out the hard way about the weight CG thing. My last few flights were succesfull because I added some weight to the rear since I had put so much on the front. It flies nice and level now and no longer has a tendancy to nose down anymore. I was having trouble at first with the plane dipping into a dive then going up at such a steep angle it stalled then dove again but this time too close to the ground game over I lose. I would make repairs and crash because of weight again in the wrong place due to repairs. I now do hand toss glides 4 feet off the ground with no power to see what will happen. I change the CG accordingly as well as test my repair work( via mini purpose crash) before unpurposful crashes. I made a nice new foam nose for my yellow bee and it works like a charm. The plane came in for a crash at about 15-20 mph and simply bounced off the ground. It was great I used foam and spaced it with air and then more foam so that the planes front surface would not recieve the blow directly but disperse it to stronger parts of the fuselage.
They really can crash hard when there commin down. I also read about the death spiral. What is that? I think I might have experienced that. I was flying one time about 3 weeks ago and had it the highest I ever got it. I decided to cut the throttle cause I was having trouble seeing it's orientation and it's a 2 channel so I knew it could get away from me. I decided to let it glide back down and it did but in a big wide circle (was not balanced that time and I figured I'd fix it when it came down) that began to tighten like toilet drain. I was enjoying the circle figuring great I don't have to guide it down it's just circling me...Cool.... No not cool...Soon that delicate pirouette had picked up so much speed I could not controll it and it covered the last 1/3 of the distance back to the ground in about 2 sec. It hit and I knew it was bad. That was when I lost the whole front. My question is ...is this the deadly spiral you speak of because it seemed like it got into something irrecoverable.... by me at least. If so what do you do to get out of it?
Also for this scotch mailing tape you told me about where do you get that from I have never heard of it. And awsome idea about the aerobird extreme and I will stay away I know that is too much for me right now. I noticed in the yellow bee I have that there is a crystal in the plane that is removable and one in the remote that is removable. How come you cant just exchange these for the ones in another plane and fly it. I know you can't probably but whats the science behind it?
I am off to the store soon to get me some gorilla glue, Ima gonna stick somthin togethur ( evil grin). Moo haa haa!

[Ken-Ohki]

Rc Sumo

I included the battery in my list of stuff to buy to part out a extream ;p you will of course have to change the battery adapter plug, but the abc charger will charge the abx as well. just takes a little longer. Not to mention, you could parellel 2 abc packs and get more mah for a little less weight. or just use some other batterys if yo have them on hand. Make it do what you want it to ;P

I like the snaps for a bombdrop payload, Ive been toying with adding a drop bay on my SS for about a week now, But I just havnet had time to do it. Definilty gonna try them for a payload.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Ken-Ohki]

Yep, That sounds like a death spiral to me. Sometimes you just cant pull out,, Hence the term "Death" spiral. the only thing to do is to try to steer out of it. Level out by apply oppisite rudder. If you have a elevater on your plane, Pushing the nose down at the same time will also help. In the 2 chan planes, you might have to apply power to get enough wind over the surfaces to turn.

I get my tape a CVS, A local drug store, FOund in the stationary/office supply section.

Eyeing that transmitter crystal huh?? here we get into a little more of a what you can do vrs what you should do or what is legal to do.

First off, that little crystal just controls what frequency the radio/reciver operate on. This is pushing my area of knowlege, But. As far as I know, it is legal to change the reciver crystal, It is not legal for you to change the radios crystal,, That has to be done at the factory. Something about tuning the transmitter to transmit on a specific crystal/ frequency. changing chans in R/C isnt like just changing channels on the tv or CB.

Secondly, as I understand it, there are wide compatability issues, like negitive or positive signal shift.

Lastly, the recivers in the 2 chan and 3 chan RTF ( ready to fly ) planes that come with there own radios are often AM, and on bad frequency like 27mhz. We prefure FM in this sport. These planes often use PCM (pulse code modulation) to control the plane. SO many pulses per milisecond or some such figure. Getting a Prapriatory reciver to operate from a "real" radio is hit or miss at best. and in most cases wont work becuse you cant get a crystal for a "real" radio on a toy frequency.

I buy my gorilla glue at sears in the tools section. Have fun playing with the glue.. It sets in about a half hour, in 4 or so hours its set and in in a fewmre hours hard cured. It isnt fast but it is effective. I generaly let whatever sit overnight. energency and field repairs alwsy get the 5 min epoxy or Tap.


Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

(I edit ) I must have blanked on the scoth tape I have rolls and it is one of my main stays in repairs also. Went flyin yesterday evening, youd think I would have learned by now not to fly in any wind with a two channel. Didn't break anything but I got a few scares especially when it dissapeared oner a hill and I was left standing there in silence remote in hand and no sound but the wind. But sure enough it was on the other side of the hill on the ground upright facing me as if to say I was wondering if you were comming back! Ha Hee He.

I will also wait that time for the glue I do tend to get anxious to fly especially if flight was interupted to to a crash. Thansk for all the transmitter info, yea I did have my good eye one that little crystal and a grinch like smirk on my face. I am going to do some research on that transmitter you mentioned and feel free to recommend some others as well cause if I got one I definitely see the value of getting a good one so I might be willing to put down a few extra bucks for one if it had a few crucial features or was just a better remote on sale.

Any way I'll write some more later just wanted to shoot somethin off this morning. have a good one. By the way the names Julian, I wans't sure if folks posted stuff like that much but I kinda feel like after all your advice it would not be polite to not even let you know who you been helpin.
Also wanted to know if you have ever flown or heard much about the new Vortex Extreme. Good bad indifferent. I was thinking of trying to make a tail wheel for the ABC when I get it too. Do you think this will disrupt it on takeoff? Many thanks as always.

[Ken-Ohki]

Pilot error is the chief cause of a Death Spiral, Overstearing, or failing to handle a gust of wind. Followed by electronics failure as a close second. All you can try to do is Steer out of it. If its pilot error, you at least have a chance. Applying opposite rudder is all you can do on a 2 chan job, useing full throttle might give you a bit more control.

The only Radios you will hear me recomend are Hiteck. That isnt to say they are the best, or the only one thats decent. But it is my prefured manufacturer. It is definitly worth getting a decent radio from the get go if you are gonna advance in this hobby. If its just something to do every so often,,, maybe you could get away cheaper, but if your sereouse, Spend the cash. A flash 5 or even 7.

I do not have first hand knowlege of the Vortex Extream, It looks like simply a larger copy of the vortex. Wich of course looks like a 2 chan ABC with a traditional tail. If this is true, I would say stay clear for the same reasons I said stay clear of the Aerobird Extream.. But again, I do not have experience with That bird. I do see it comes with a 27 MHz radio ( bad ) and ony a 600 mah battery pack.

Make a tail wheel? my ABC came with one, I dont use it ,, but it came with it. Every so often I will put the landing gear on if I want to do touch and goes, or if I want the bird to stand up. But I almost never fly with them. I almost always hand launch the ABC. The main reason I dont use the gear is that my ABC ( like many others ) tends to not shut down completly when at 0 throttle. It often runs slowly. And if the wheels are on, when I land, it can roll for some time,, and not usualy straight either,, SO I just pretty much leave them off. They really dont affect flight all that much.


Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Told you I had questions. HA ha I read somewher that you can change out the props for the ABC and that you get better gas milege and also it goes faster. Have you expiremented with changing props at all. I like the mod one guy did on the wheels. I really want to learn to take off and land so I think I'll get some of those large grass tires. I just love how you can make these RTF's your own with your own Mods. Everybody like sto have something a little different Know what I mean.

Also have you ever experimented with different motors for the ABC or do you feel that it provides enough get up and git! Also what are your thoughts on instructors and such, I don't have one so I have been out flying and crashin on my own but that will soon change as I talked a buddy of mine into purchasing his self a plane. It should be here by now, sad to say now that I know alot more I would have told hime to get another plane. It was a 2 channel cheapie but he don't need to know that quite yet. Got to let him bite the hook first then I'll tell him to get his wallet again and follow me to the great place where dreams are sold.

I am still waiting for replacement parts for my yellow bee. I also ordered them before learning a bit more but it is a good little bugger though, it has taken it's hits and stil took a fix. Still on the first wing and tail though with out glue it would look like confedie I'm sure. HAaa. Too windy to fly today, I must say I have never been so into weather in my life. Most people cheer at a nice day with a warm breze but I am like No no no and folks just look at me weird. Anyway I am out of here. I work at the University of PA in the Housing department. Have a good day.

[Ken-Ohki]

7 cell 1100 mah packs here

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=850

[Wingtips24]

thats great thanks

[guy5927]

Ken,
you are one of the first ABX-buyers ...you've had quite som time to testfly it ...

I'm most probably am ordering mine this week ... my trusty ABC has 50 + flights now, so I'm ready for the Big Bro ....

Any advice or guidelines when stepping up from ABC to ABX ?

[Ken-Ohki]

Sorry, Ive been away fishing all weekend ;)

I have not changed out my props, nor have I tried any other motors,, still all stock except for a bit of tape. the plane weighs about a pound, and I get 9 oz of thrust out of mine static, I feel it is suffucent. If I ever burn out my motor, Ill most likely stuff somehitng in there,, but im not sure what.. maybe the 580 that came with the extream hehehe.

Instructors..... Hmmm.. With great hesitation and fear of inflamitory responces from others..... I tought myself to fly. Before I ever put a battery in my remote, I already knew how to fly, my dad used to design airplanes/systems for the military He has explained flight theroey in detail to me as a child.. and ive been on flight sims since they were created for home use. My first flight I almost lost it in the wind, but kept control and learned something I didnt know about flight. SInce then, I have taught my nephew and 3 friends to fly, 1 of them isnt doing so good, but it isnt from lack of instruction. I did not need a instructor to fly, My friends needed some help. SO my answere to you is this..... If you feel you need one, If you think you might... You do... If you feel you dont, you probably dont, However be prepaird to pay for your arogance with replacement parts. At the stage of the game I am at now,, I probably would benifitt from a few hours of time with a qualifyed instructor, Now that I know what my questions are, his answeres would actualy mean something to me. But it wouldnt be basic flight instruction,, More like arobatic instruction, becuse that is what im messing with. As far as I am concerned, 1 and 2 channles planes were my instructor.

---------------------------------------

Guy5927-- this parts for you

I am asuming you have read up on the ABX stuff on this forum, so I wont go into detail about it flying faster, Demanding soft landings, and definitly not for beginers.

For an experienced pilot, NP. for someone who is still inexperienced, STAY CLEAR!!

Fore someone who has a aerobird already I say this.. " You already have a plane like that, But somehting else"

get a radio and a SS, or Estarter or something that will be a better investment of your 200 -240 bucks depending.
-------------------------------

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Thanks Ken I too love fishing. You mentioned the word "static" what does that mean and also I just ordered an SS which should be here next Wednesday. I got it with the 400 motor in it. I know they usually come with 100c or 300c. But he said he saw it with a 400 c and naturally I thought Bigger = better. What is the difference between these motors and should I have gotten a 300c.

I also noticed in a video I saw of the SS a guy was hovering the thing in mid air with his. Can I do that sort of stuff with my SS the way it comes or was his likely moded to death. It seems you can set these up alot of different ways from what I can see, some folks getting 30 and 45 minute flights.

Ken I have also been seeing people talking alot about stress fractures on the slow stick. Things like wings bending. What is that about. In fact what can you say are some of the likely issues I will face with my SS. How do the motors hold up somepeople say they replace them quite often, should I go ahead and get a few. How much do they cost and does this happen mainly because of the mods people put onm them. I am looking for at least 25 miute flying times and if motors are not too expensive I don't mind replacing them. I was surprised to hear they can burn out like that. May have to go brushless one day. BTW what do you use hot glue for on planes why not epoxy?


I have been using that FMS simulator, it was really hard at very first till I figured out how to get in the air now it is getting increasingly easier. I jhave heard so much about that Flash 5 you recommended so I am going to save and get that, good price too! I just rebuild my 2 chn yellow bee, cheapie I know but I had ordered the parts and it has flown well for mee. It wa sfunny I had to use all my strength to rip apart the appoxy body to get all the insides for the new frame. Man it was tough built like a tank. Anyway hope you enjoyed your fishin trip.

Tips

[guy5927]

okay,

let's say I buy a Hitec or Futaba basuc 4 ch radio + servo's ... how do I know in what airplane the servo's fit ?

That's why I like the bird-range..... out of the box and in the air ...

I quite frankly am afraid of having trouble buiding in the servo's and putting together an ARF .is that difficult ?

[Wingtips24]

guy,

I am by far not an expert or even advanced for that matter but I could probably answer your question somewhat. The main difference between the RTF's and the build or Almost Ready to Fly ATF and the build kits is that you can choose your parts for it. It just gives you customizing options since this is such a hobby of opinion and preference you can shoose just about any set up you want depending on your needs and desires. You will have alot of choices on what equipment will fit with what. You could always post what you bought then see what replies you get back on good planes to match.

I'm not possitive but I believe that their are industry standards which mean that you are choosing more the brand that you like with many of the options based on perfomance cost etc. I know as far as servo's go there are the rgular size ones and mini ones and I imagine as the plane gets bigger you pick the set up in that planes size range which can remove some of the guess work in choosing parts. Basically once you figure out which size plane you want your stuff can also now be chosen from a certain size group also. Ken is this right, let me know if I just need to shut up.

Any way with so much help out here you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a flight pack as I believe it is called to match your plane. What is best seems to be a matter of opinion. Anyway I hope that helps you some. I am just learning myself but I can say the more I read the less intimidating it is. You hear folks talk about the same setups on a certain plain and you get an idea what to get after a while. My suggestion is to read alot and ask alot of questions to help remove that overwhelmed what do I do feeling.

Tips

[Ken-Ohki]

Static means on the ground.

the 400 will be ok for the SS, allot of people use that motor. it will have a bit more power, a bit shorter runtimes, but should last longer then the 300. It will also be a bit more weight.

I do not believe it will hover stock,, but it will be dam close.. in the right wind it will harrier. maybe even without wind with the 400. You would have to overpower a motor with voltage or build super lite to make a stock ss do tork rolls.

Motors do burn out,, runing 8 or more cells will kill on it,, running full throttle all the time will kill on it. it all depends on how hard you abuse it and how you set it up with components. those motors are like 10 bucks a piece .

Issues witht he SS are Few,, the wings are its weakest point and need to be reinforced. allof of people say to get brass tubing to replace a weak aluminum one that comes stock. I used 2 sections of fiberglass rod, some string and epoxy ( becuse its what I had on hand ) and my wing is solid, You could dam near hang glide with it hehehe. other then that, some have statd teh tail is weak, and reinforce it with bamboo,, I will direct you to the ultimate Slow stick thread for those details,, no point in me writing all that infor ehre when such a good job has been done over there.

People getting long flights liek that are most likely using those Li-Poly battery cells. something you should stay away from for awile. search out Li-poly and read if you want to know more about them.

Hot GLue has its uses too, it isnt as messy as epoxy and dosnt require mixing, or set time, FUll strenght as soon as its cool, BUT it is also heavey in my opinion. but , like many other things, it has its uses.

And I did have a good time onmy trip,, didnt catch anything, but it was fun anyway.

Laters
Ken-OHki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Ken-Ohki]

okay,

let's say I buy a Hitec or Futaba basuc 4 ch radio + servo's ... how do I know in what airplane the servo's fit ?

That's why I like the bird-range..... out of the box and in the air ...

I quite frankly am afraid of having trouble buiding in the servo's and putting together an ARF .is that difficult ?


you do have to pay some attention to what you are buying,, as a general rule, micro or pico servos are what you want, like the hs-55. Large planes might require bigger, super small/light will require tiny. but,, Standart micro sized servos will do most planes in the beginer catigory. Every plane I ever saw stated what it recomended for a flight pack,, as long as yorus is close, its usualy close enough.
Ken-Ohki

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

The stick is in the house, yea baby! I opened the box, I was suprised to see how big it was and I instantly saw why people have problems with folds in the wings, man are they thin and light. It actually ended up comming with the 300c motor and 1180 gearing. I figure since I have some time I am going to take it step by step . The first part of the directions instructed me to use some tape to connect peices of the tail. Did you use the tape it came with or did you use bix tape instead. BTW I saw on TV today duck Tape has a clear duck tape now. You might have already known that but I love duck tape so if it is now clear chances are its a bit lighter and we all know how strong it is. Im sure it will have it;s uses somewhere to.

I am just going to build by the directons step by step and ask questions as I go. I look over this thread cause I remember you telling me about a set up for the slow stick I think. I also am going to need to get some razor blades. I never bought a hobby knife should I ask for anything specific or just pick up on. I am very excited to build this thing up. My freind also just had his first flight today on that 2 chanl he bought. Did okay too went a bit to the left so I told him how to get that right. Were gonna fly on Sunday weather permiting.

Sorry no fish man I know how that is too. Mo haa haa.

[Ken-Ohki]

I did not use te tape that came with it. I used the packing tape I suggested earlier.

as far as hobby knives go, almost any will do, I use the cheap plastic ones with the 6 inch long blades you can break off as they get old to expose sharp blade.

I love duc tape, but it is pretty heavy. be interesting to see what there clear tape is like.

asembly is pretty simple. just a few general things. DO NOT cut the tube as suggested, epoxy the rods to the win in addition to taping them. Put epoxy in the seam where the wing folds up to help hold it together also.

1180 is the prop size, you most likely have a c or D gear box. You will definitly want a few extra props around that size.

you will have a blast with that plane, it should only take a few hours to put it together. My second one only took me 20 min from box to air, But then it took another hour to do the wing reinforcement. ( definitly reinforce the wing somehow.)

ow well, off to work so i can afford more plane parts.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Thanks,

you read my mind a flag went up when they said to cut the tube.I will get some more props. It didn't seem hard but it definitly had more cutting involved that I originally thought. I opened it up and looked at the directions then put it back in the box so I could aske a few questions on it. Did you use those plastic hinges where the rods attach to the flaps. They looked so flimsy I was wondering if they should be relaced with more sturty ones. Also alot of parts looked flimsy. Can you think of any parts you auttomatically change out. I was reading abot APC Props and prop saver combo's people made and I thought to myself....self this looks like a great idea. Did you do anything like that on your plane. I have also been trying to finalize my understanding of the electronics of the plane. Here we go tell me what you think.

Servos - controll the moving surfaces and the throttle , some throttles are done electronically

Reciever - recieves the signal from the tranxmitter and tells the ESC what to do with the servos

ESC - Tells servos and other channels what to do

Battery -supplies the juice

Can I expect 20 -25 minutes of flight of a non lypo pack?

I am going to read all up on how to reinforce the wing, BTW what kind of wind can these things handle. They are so much bigger so I would think more than my 2 chnls.

What kind of performance /tricks / length of flight. characteristics can I expect from my current set up provided I don't weigh it down to death. I am going to try to start on it tonight. Might try to find some O that Duck tape to sample. So clear packing tape it is. This thing is super light I can't wait. I figure I will build it slowly and do all the mods really well and asI am building it and crashin my Y Bee I will get components. I think I should get the Flash 5 first. Do you think that is a good move?

Also I should be able to fly this in a gym right, that sounds like so much fun ... No Wind yea. Hope you have a good one with the Lobsters see ya

[Ken-Ohki]

Plastic hindges? Flaps?? Uhh, you lost me.

the only thing that needs to be changed out stock is perhaps the aluminum joiner brackets, but with creative wing reinforcement such as I have done, I left them in place.


You almost got it.

servos - Moves the control surfaces, and on slimers handles throttle
reciver - Recives signal and tells everything what to do.
ESC - (electronic speed control) Handles throttle and supplys juice to the reciver
BEC - ( battery eliminator circute ) cuts off juice to the motor when the pack gets weak
battery - Juice.

so you were half right about it.

As far as wind.. as a beginer 5 is ok 7 is pushing it. One experienced, 10 moh isnt too bad.

FLight time is based on tehbattery you use. And how much throttle you use. I use a 900 mah 7 cell pack. I get about 15 ta 20 minutes depending on the wind and how much gliding I do. After 10 min or so im usualy ready to put it on the ground anyway.

The SS will, Loop, fly upside down, Tail slides, Stalls, Hammer heads,It will roll with practice, and do many other simple manuvers.

It is possible to fly them inside,, If you are good enough to control it inside.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ohhh okay I git it now, thanks...so you tired of all these questions yet or what man. I do appreciate all the help :p

:cool: The hingers flaps thing has to do with the long rods that go from the servos to the flap. Their is a "hinge" or plastic connecting peice that links the rod to the flap and it looks real flimsy considering all the tugging and pulling it's taking. Some planes use the fishing string method instead of the rod thing. I know I could probably remove the and trade them out but no need if it is okay and will stand the test of time.

What king of a setup wolud I need to do that hovering stuff and is it going to take me a long time before I am good enough to do that or is it easier than it looks. Obviously long is relative to how much you practice but I just want to know the difficulty level of hovering. I took the Bee out for a fly yeaterday following full repairs and much protection added. Was too nose heavy. I had made a styrafoam nose to go over the front of the plane and added some duck tape arounf the boom where it meets the plastic. Bottom line too heavy overall especially in the front. I would throw it and it would begin a long slow dive and if I threw it hard enough it would just graze the grass and climb up 15 to 20 feet at which tiime I had to make some corrections using the transmitter and the 2 chnl way means less motor for one or 2 secs so I then lost mu altitude on the correction.... back to earth it went. Front was awesome though not a scratch. Probably would work fine with a challenger since it's stronger

I finally pulled some of the styrofoam nose off along with it's epoxy and low and behold she climbed . Oh yea for got to tell you was dpomg a wide circuit and it flew over a school roof. :eek: I dared not cut te motor and I was flying with a tree between me and the school and my plane airborne on the far outside. Well the plane hit the far side of the tree which was hanging onto the roof of the school. I was not even worried cause I knew somehow my plane was coming back home with me tonight. I walked around the school till l found a gate ad since I am pretty tall I could stand on the gate and pull myself up on the roof . Long story short not a scrath and it's sitting at home. I landed after that last somewhat successful flight. I figured I better take her home and get the weigt right befor I have a major crash. I also realized at some oint I am going to need to get a sturdy plane I can learn all the basics on and crash alot and it will still fly. I need a reliable but durable plane to learn on. Here are my ideas thus far.

First of all is the slow stick at al like that seems very vulnrable to me.

I have looked at:

Smoothe
T 52
A-6 Texan
Graupner Terry
Wingo
Aerobird Challenger

What do you think is te best crash plane that is 3 chanl or better?

Tips

[Ken-Ohki]

Hmm, I think you are refuring to the control horns. the stock ones should be fine, but you should definitly put a bit of epoxy on them to help hold them to the tail surface.

With a brushless motor, the SS will do tork rolls, But not really hover, It lascks teh control surfaces needed to truley hover. ( ailerons ) Hovering should take you a month or so of practice before you really get teh hang of it,, It is not something a newbie shuold be endevering to do, Learn how to fly first, with 3 chans, then learn a 4 chan rig, then after you can make the plane do what you want, whenever you want, reguarless of wind or possition,, then you can start to mess with the more advanced stuff like hovering.

after teh aerobird, and the slow stick, I would move to the E-starter. after that is mastered, you can pretty much go fly anything.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Cool beans, I haven't been able to work on the SS yet have to work all weekend too. It's Move Out at Upenn. What ere you flying these days and how is that Extreme you were helping you friend work on. Did the conversion work good, sounded like a cool idea. I would one day like to create my own design. Went flying again last night and did fairly betterbut the weigh twas still a little off and I realized I glued the tail into the slot crooked so it wants to go to the left. These little 2 channels teach you alot about flying just by the repairs. You would not think that2 milimeters could make so much difference.

You would have laughed hare at my first flight yesterday, I threw it and it went up level and straight and .....just kept going.....level and straight....added some left turn Nope! Level and straight Right ...Nope level and straight till it dissapeared into the woods. I laughed and then walked into the woods to locate my plane that fortunantly was still reving. Needed to be reset.

Was still to much wind though it probably was no more than 3 to 4 mph. Anyway catch me up on your latest works

[Ken-Ohki]

I havent been flying anything lately, between work and wind Ihavent had a chance. But I am bringing my ABC, and my SS with me out of town this weekend, hopefully, ill get a chance to fly them.

The extream is sitting on a shelf awaiting parts, I think I finaly convinced the owner to learn how to fly his ABC before messing with this again, so it is not likey to get much atttention for awile. ther isnt a dout in my mind that it will convert NP.

So why did your plane go straight? forget to connect something?

Ow well, Im off to the shower then on the road for a few hours.. Laters


Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

I think I just needed to reset it I must have turned things on in the wrong order, but you know now that I think about it, I remember hearing about being real careful about the length of the antenea. I had to buy a new one mine had been skidded off in ... a crash you know. So I bough antenea wire frrom the hobby shop and made a new one and never thought twice about it till just now when I remember reading something about being careful with that. I am sure it is longer now than befor but that may or may not be better. I looked over the SS plans last night and somehow they looked alot easier this time, still no work done yet.

BTW you told me once about merging two packs together to form one. How do you do that the proper way, I'm sure I could jerry rig something but how i sit suppse to be done. Also can you charge them like that too or just use them.


So the Xtreme is handful I guess, I was eyeballing that Smoothe again, really looks like a cool plane. Ever flown one or seen one flown. I will go with the E-Starter next. I heard that it takes mini servos. When I get ready to get mine I might need some help to try to match something that will fit my first few planes though I bet i will want a separate set of stuff for each.

Well today is about to be a busy day our main move out is today so hear we go with 600 students moving out. Have a good one

[Ken-Ohki]

I dont beleive I used the word Merge. that would imply a permanant joining of the packs, something I dont recomend.

However, You can make a Y-harness and connect 2 similure ( cemistry, cell count and capasity ) either in series or in parrelle, Your purpose would require a parrelle connection. Pretty simple. Onle real notes here beside make sure the cemistry, cell count and capasity are the same, and do not pair a old with a new pack. Charge them seperatly. This is really something you can do to make what you have work, But is not something you should set out to do as part of your game plan,

No and No again on the smoothe

everyone wants a seperate setup for each plane, Unfortunetly, Cash usualy prevents this. I do recall you saying money was tight. WIch is why I steered you tward doing the "real" radio thing, in the long run ( even if its a short long run ) you will have a flghtpack that will move plane to plane. as long as you are using nicro, or quivilant servos, I dout you will have much problem getting anything you will be flying for a wile in the air. Especialy the planes Ive recomended.


Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken thanks,

As I read your message back I could not help but to sense irritation in your message. Is that correct I know I could be wrong? I wanted to ask you and not assume. I know I have often restated your words incorrectly because I did not remember the specific way you first described it but I often only wish to jog your memory with the nearest thing I could think of to reference what you may have earlier spoken about. It's hard to tell in email type messaging so I always say it's best to ask about the tone of a message. Anyway I know I write alot and do not want to exhaust you in answering questions or take your generousity in teaching for granted. I do hope you feel free to ask me to spead the questions out, I was not totally sure of the forum ediquette so I have been a bit reluctant to jump in to chats where an established group seem to be conversing and ask a bunch of questions when they are focused on something else. I could of course be way off base and you are laughing as you write each time, I guess it's because I can't tell that I ask. I don't want misread you "git it mis-read" Haa ..Anyway let me know.

Here is the latest, I took some buds out to fly yesterday, my friend finally got his plane and we flew it. I now see on a very small scale why they say let someone else look at your plane before you fly if your new. I am new and he is too but I have put one or two cheapies together so I saw some instant issues in his plane like missing screws that let the main wing fly off after every two flights and what must have been a blind folded packing tape job to reinforce the main wing. It was funny and sobering when I thought about what someone could see in my flying and building if I saw that after only 2 1/2 months of learning. I hardly even know what I'm doing yet.

One of my other friends who came kinda got me upset though. I think after you build these and go through alot of repairs you gain alot of appreciation for actual flight time. I bought both my planes to fly and invited him the other guy I was flying wiith and a forth friend to come watch if they wanted. I was flying my first plane when he said he would get the other one since my batts were running low. I thought cool thats a cool gesture. Then he turned it on and the plane and transmitter and the motor starts reving. ( Keep in mind this was my longest repair job to date 4 hours ). He looked like he was about to toss it ( never having touched one ) and I bout crapped my pants as I mustered all my patience to ask him to please turn it off. I didn't want to be selfish but I knew he would crash it and I just finished building it again from the ground up and had not even flown it yet , so I was beside myself for a minute. All in all it was a good flying day though I have confirmed yet again that the Bee is too light , it's like you have to hold your breath to keep from blowing it out of the sky.... I broke the main wing ..again. Knoew it was too windy but I had been waiting for 2 weeks now and the othres flew well but I knew it was too much for that plane.

I can feel myself getting sucked in to the hobby that may account for what may seem like an expanding budget. I think I am beginning to understand how you might feel like flying different planes on a given day.

Have a good one and thank you again for all your help.

[Ken-Ohki]

I have reread my last a few times and dont see any difference in my tone from any other post I have made ;p

My answering your questions is by choice. Not like I have too, So its pretty safe to asume that as long as I am answereing them, that I am not irritated.

Its generaly pretty easy to spot flaw in anything that isnt yours hehe, Amazing how diffucult it is sometimes to spot them when they are yours. As the first person in my group to abtain, and be able to fly a 3 chan plane, or any plane for that matter, I have become the guiding light of my group advising them in there purchases, and rebuilding most of there carnage. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they dont, But They learn something either way. ( mostly they learn to be thankful they have a free maintence man ) It appears that you are gonna be your groups little light. SO being armed with as much relivant info as possible will make life easier for all in your group.

So your friend was gonna throw your plane huh? ( snicker ) None of my friends would dream of doing such a thing without asking. ( me on the other hand, I pretty much fly whatever plane I wish whenver I see fit seeing as how I keep them all in the air ) I think were I you, I might concider keeping the battery packs in my pocket to my planes to prevent such a thing wile you arent watching., It does hoever show a interest on your friends part. All Of my group got addicted from me letting them try my 2 chan planes under my watchfull eye and instruction.. Now they are all hooked and scrambling for raios, planes servos, and all sorts of miscilainious stuff that might be adapted.

Ill give you a tip or 2 about flying in wind.

1 shim a popsicle stick under the trailing edge where it rests on the fusilage. This will give it less tendancy to climb and direct more energy into pushing you forward.

2 Move your center of gravity forward. This will give you more authority in the wind, but does have a slight downside. It will make the plane drop faster when gliding, and it will also make it a bit less inclined to climb.

3 Always fly with the wind in your face, and the plane in front of you. Try your best to fly directly into, and directly with the wind. Try to fly sidlong the wind as little as possible and only when turning to come around for another up or downwind leg. When transitioning from upwind to downwind, the plane will turn fast, so use less stick, and be prepared to compensate for overturn. When transitioning from downwind to upwind you plane will turn sluggishly, Use more control, and or longer control imput. Over controling isnt as much of a issue here.

4 Do not forget that sometimes,, Even though you desire to move slower, or feel the plane is moving at a good speed,,,,, Sometimes you just have to give full throttle to get the control responce you need to make it do what you want.

5 Your planes flight characteristics will not change to suit you.. You must learn to fly the plane and not let it fly you. Yes, you can adjust the flight characteristics with slight CG adjustments and such, BUT. All and all. learn what your plane does, then figure out how to make it do what you want. If you first try to make it do what you want before getting used to it,, You are gonna loose.

One good thing about being the guy who fixes everything,, Ya aquire allot of spare parts.

Today, after installing a new tail on my fiends ABC, Repairing a folded and mutilated wing with tape and gorilla glue, and resoldering the power leads on 2 different planes for other friends, I decided to take on two prodjects for myself.
One being a lite setup for my SS, so I can fly it at night, I think this will be a permanant instalation but I might make it moveable from plane to plane. I was gonna use led lights but my radioshack did not have what I needed for led's and resistors. So instead i went with some micro dc 6 volt lites.

And secondly. I have a twin motor 2 chan arf that is pretty beat, so I decided to buy a balsa rubberband powered plane with a 17 inch wing span, and mount the arfs, motors, radio and battery to it to see how that works.

Was suposed to go flying this eavning, but its raining,, go figure ;(

Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Thansk for clarity, it's allways good to keep the airways clear so I appreciate that. Looks like you are doing a bit of tinkering with lights. I have seen a few links with planes that have lights , makes them look very realistic. How heavy is your SS now. And have yo done any of the Mods that aeropenguin wrote about in one of the posts " assuming you read it of course" I am trying to figure out which ones I will do. That was so funny that you said you said you were converting a rubberband model, I just bought a 1.89 rubberband balsa cause I had them when I was a kid. Now that I have a motor powered one it's ot as fun though.

Yea looks like I will be the spark for our little posse of wanna be flyers. HAA! I now look at odds and ends lying around wondering how they might fit or reinforce something. Those flying tips really make sense too. I think that tends to be my challenge. I turn into the wind to shallow sometimes and end up running out of room and needing to turn back the other way taking me further away from where I am. Seems like the further away the more the plane has a mind of its own. Maybe bad reception or something, just doesnt seem as responsive.

I also sometimes get in to what I think is called porpusing you know that dip rise stall dip rise stall thing. I have started to get myself out of it lately but its not a science yet. I still think I am trying to get up long enout to see what I need to adjust then get it back down safely to doo it. Getting better with the landings also, had 3 or 4 goodones yesterday, 3 or 4 bad ones too. Yellowbee broke a wing ...again peice a junk. Yea.... I'll be fixing it later today. Mo Haa hAa! Should be able to get the ABC pretty soon, though I have been reading so many threads on the SS lately. Cant wait to see that fly too.

What planes do you have , I just realized I don't know any of your fleet other than your SS and ABC. I'll go first... Firbird outlaw, Yellow Bee, SS. Okay that was fast.. Do you fly any of the warbirds?

Okay well I need to get out of here, someone should be here to take over for me in a minute so I am outta here.

[Ken-Ohki]

generaly speaking if you are pourposing, it is a CG issue, or a tail issue for a 2 chan plane. ( or both )

One or the other, or a little of both is makeing the plane nose up and climb more then it is supposed to. Then it looses speed, starts to stall, noses down and picks up speed, then repeats..

Moving the cg slightly forward will probably help. If your tail is a Vtail, tighten the rear mount screw a little and loosen the front one a little., WHen I say a little i mean 1 ta 2 turns for each in there respective direction. Both of these adjustemnts will make noticible changes in handling. ( its all about balance, or CG if you will )

As far as dealing with the pouposing in the air.. ther are really only 2 things to do.. FIrst, at the top of the arc, turning will often stop it from porpising,, Also, reducing power on the way up and applying it on the way down will also help stop this.

I have a assortment of planes.

2 red twin motor jobs, they are called intruders or intercepters, they are Airhoggs and great little toy planes.

3 black piles of crap, ( long story )also air hoggs, ( dont by the black or purple resistor ) I bought 1 and made the company send me 2 others becuse they all sucked. I have 1 in pieces, 1 semi modifyed, and 1 that has never flown. eventualy, when I work out the modded one to the point it flys decent, Ill convert the other one neater and finaly have one that flies decently.

1 airrider falcon, 2 chan Canard style, A slow flyer and great plane, but it dont do well in wind. Looks kinda funny too.

1 Esties Electric turbine 1 chan Jet. Also not a bad plane but needs a better battery then stock.

1 ABC. Crashed a dozen times or more and well over 300 flights. Still going strong, 2 wings, 2 tails , some tape and glue is all this plane has ever needed

1 glow powered alpha trainer. I dont like glow, So this one although fully funcctional, just takes up space on my bench right now. One of these days I might take it out. Last time I tried to start it, It failed to run. WHen Ihave time and feel like pounding my head against the wall, Ill mess with it again.

1 SS - speed 300, c gearing, with a 900 mah 7 cell aerobird battery. I also have a camera mount for this one that I havent had good luck with ( crappy camera ) and is soon to be the first with lights installed. This plane has 50 or so flights, totaling at least 10 ta 12 hours or more. Original motor still seems to be going strong, but I did fold a wing on it, Forcing me to reinforce it.. You asked me what mods I did to my SS, The wing reinforcement is the only real mod, other then reinforcing the landing gear with string and epoxy to help prevent them from spreading. I also installed a permanant Y harness for the betterys. I use it to run 2 packs for more capasity and I am htinking of using it to plug my lites in. Not the best way, but it is a way, and simplist/quickest. I might end up plugging them into a empty chan on my reciver, but I am undecided if I want to do that.

1 E-Starter This isnt a bad plane, but I havent flown it much since I built it. I was dissipointed with the recomended battery pack and have not modifyed it to take the "right" pack ( in my opinion ) wich will be the same pack I run the SS on. It flew fine stock , I just want more power.

1 Potensky Cobra. I was very dissipointed with this plane stock, it is curently sitting on the shelf awaiting about $300 to go brushless, and replace the 4 servos and reciver I stole for other planes.

I do not have any War Birds right now. I have been looking at a few ( GWS naturaly ). But I promised myself I would not buy any new planes till I bought all the components I need to have each of my planes ready for the air, with its own dedicated flight pack. In order to do that I need:

(aprox cost )

1 brushless motor /w brushless ESC $130
1 25 amp esc $ 40
7 hs-55 servos $160
4 hs-50 servos $ 90
1 feather lite super small reciever $ 50
3 hs 555 recivers ( or similure ) $180
---------------------------------------------------
$650 bucks (Owch !) + tax and/or shipping


Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

When you say move the CG forward are you meaning the battery? that is the only thing in the plane that seems movable so I have been shifting it back and forward. It just dawned on me that it might be something else I should be moving. I flew yesterday and I can confirm that I think for the most part I have the pourposing thing under control. I was in a beautiful baseball field, I really like that as a place to fly, very even feild with low grass and decent take off area. I also tried creating a shim and that worked too. I forgot about the tail loostening and tightening. I remember that from the video I got with the plane. I had epoxied my tail in place to make it more sturdy. Looks like I will have to pry it up so i can use the screws again.

I plan to get the E Starter but I was also checking out the T-52. You heard much about that, I really like that it seems so hard to kill the thing. I think I may aim to have 2 or 3 planes with their own set of stuff and this one seems pretty cool. What do you think of it. Ever flown one or seen one flown befor.

Don't think I have heard of the airr hogg b4. Is it a pusher plane. I also realized that 10 -15 minutes of CONSTANT flight is a while. I pretty much stayed up in the air yesterday so I was ready for a quick stop after that plus the bugs were annoying me. I also remember hearing something about preparing the motor when you get one. Does " setting the motor" ring a bell, what is that about and do you need to do that with the SS or just better quality motors? Cant wait to get the ABC

[Ken-Ohki]

CG changes are most often done with the battery back, But it is not the only way, shaving or adding weight is another. or moving the reciver if all else fails,, Sometimes you can slide the wing forward or backward also.

I have not flown a T-52. From what I just read, Its too much plane for a beginer. Learn the SS and the E_starter before you start to look at other planes,, by then you will know more of what you want, and select something completly different im sure.

I have 2 friends ( Honestly, I even have more then 2 ) But These 2 friends have failed to head my advice and learn on a docile cheap plane. One has crashed over 3000 in Quarterscale planes in the last 40 days or so. He insista on trying to fly these monster planes that are way beyond his ability. I think he thinks it being bigger will help him fly better.. to some extent he is right,, but It isnt that simple. ( all glow ) One even at my hands ( a p-51 ) but it was his faulty gear instalation that was to blame for its loss.. The other friend has totaled a ABX beyond even my ability to repair, as well as done seriouse dammage to his ABC 4 times now, Im not sure how many more times I can rebuild it. But for the acidents its been in, its increadable that it still flys like new. he has also destroyed and or lost 4 other arfs from flying downwind against advice, flying in more wind then he could handle, and flat out doing stpid things like pushing forward on the stick to go up and sending it nose first into the pavement. DONT be like them. DOnt be impatient. Learn what the simple plane has to teach...DOnt make the mistake and think . Well, this plane will make me a better pilot becuse it has more stock capabilities.. Truth is,, if you dont understand those capabilities..You are in trouble. Once you get that SS in the air, You will love it and you will Understand why the SS has such a huge loyal following. ;p


Airhogs are toys, Most of them suck, I will only endorse 1, and that is the little red twin motor one, very small, but cool as hell.. I cant remember if it is the intruder or defender or intercepter,, But it is the only red twin they make i know of, and it is available at walmart for 29 bucks. I have installed 4 cell batterys into mine instead of the stock 3 cell ones, Gives it allot more authority in the wind, and will fly reasonably controlable in 10 - 15 mph winds. It is not a pusher.

SO far, I have not broken in any of my motors, I am not convinced you need to, I have yet to burn one out. I dont see any real harm in it, provided you break it in right,, dry it right and then reoil it properly.. I am no the person to talk to about breaking in motors.also as I understand it, you can time or tune the motors for better preformance, however this is also not my area of expertize.

Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken

I will heed your advice and I will not rush it. The main reason for the T-52 questions was because I heard it was so indestructable and so far on my learner planes I have done so much repair, I thought this may be a good trainer but more durable then some of the ones I have tried thus far. I wanted a cheap east to learn of indestructable plane I could crash as I learned and it seemed like a "Volvo " of the skies so I wanted to inquire about it. If it is too much of a plane then I am not nterested I just thought it might fly like the SS but not be easy to break.

It is hard to be patient but I will trust your advice and not be one of the stories you need to tell folks about trying to coax yet another ambitious flyer to cool his jets before they get cool by the ground. Well come on SS then. I will focus my attention on building one of those and you can trust that if I refer to oter planes it is for facination reason and for the desire and hope of ONE DAY flying something like that, Hee hee! I am not looking to loose money so I can wait.

Cant wait to fly the SS or the ABC , got a few things to pay for, just went to the dentist today to have start a root canaled so there goes some of my funds for a while since it's like 3 visits ouch!

BTW can you do barrel rolls with your ABC? the video doesn't show much by the way of it's capabilities

[Ken-Ohki]

It is good that you understand the "dont rush it" advice. I have at least 3 planes here that dont fly,, not becuse they cant, becuse I bought to dam many at once,, went on a new plane a week thing for awile hehehe. FOrtunatly I can afford to do so Now I am trying to break even with the other stuff mentioned to get them all in the air.
Dreaming and or drooling over new/other planes is fine. Some things to look for in beginer planes are planes that have low wing loading, ( large wing surface area and low weight ). Planes that have diheadral. ( that shallow V shape the wing has when viewed from front or back.) Planes with diheadral are for the most part self correcting. That is if you let go the stick it will return itself to pretty much level flight. However diheadral will work against you wile trying to roll or fly inverted. After you get more experienced, you will look for planes that do not have diheadral. When you look for planes that will handle wind you start to look for speed and high wing loading.

The ABC will roll . It does like a corkscrew roll with much practice. And only if the control surfaces are set to max throw, and you are in pro mode. Planes with ailerons generaly use them for roll controll, Planes that do not can still roll, its just harder and not as tight/pretty. to roll without ailerons, From level flight, at full power, ( with some altitude under you ) give full left or right stick. the plane will nose up a little as it starts its turn then the nose will fall as it begins to roll & turn. after the plane has rolled about 90 degrees apply full down elevator until the plane comes out the other side after another 180 degrees of roll release the down elevator and feed in some up elevator. It takes some practice for sure, But is possible. This will roll most planes that lack ailerons. The SS will also roll the same way. Its kinda important to remember that both the ABC and SS are NOT stunt planes. However they can prform basic manuvers, Loops, inverted, Outside loops are possible but very tricky. stalls, and a few other things are also possible.

Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[npm]

Please describe the control input sequence to make the ABC do an outside loop. I have tried but have not been able to achieve anything but a very steep dive.

[Ken-Ohki]

Please describe the control input sequence to make the ABC do an outside loop. I have tried but have not been able to achieve anything but a very steep dive.


Sounds like you are trying to enter the manuver at the top of the loop from straight and level flight by just pushing down, Ihave not been able to enter a outside loop from that position, and feel the bird dosent have enough down authority to simply force it into a outside loop, you have to set up for it, get the plane into the right position. It helps allot if your bird is capable of inverted flight. If you cant fly inverted, I dont think you will be able to ouside loop. My ABC has been modifyed a little in the tail to allow for extra throw.

The only way I can outside loop my ABC is to bring it up high, and dive it to gain speed, Usualy over 100 of steep dive. I judge speed by the sound of air ripping over my wings, It is kinda loud and definitly stressing structual limitations when ya pull back into a loop. At the top of the loop, I push he nose over with down elivater to halt the loop and sustain the inverted position. I allow it to fly like this for several yards to re-establish speed, usualy diving a little ( inverted ) to help gain speed, then push full down elivator and watch it go around. Very often I will fail at this menuver, but I have done it enough to prove it isnt just fluke. Speed is Key. Being able to loop without falling off left or right into a abortion cork screw thing is also super important to being able to pull this off. I did not try to outside loop before i modifyed the tail. I am not sure if it will. It definitly helps to be facing into the wind to do it, SO that measn you have to start your loop runing with the wind so at the top you are facing into the wind when you are inverted.

Making the ABC do the corkscrew barrel roll is challenging too. its taken some time to get that manuver down.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[guy5927]

Ken,

How exactly did you modify your ABC to get more throw ?

thanks

Guy

[Ken-Ohki]

Ken,

How exactly did you modify your ABC to get more throw ?

thanks

Guy


there are 4 basic methods of gaining more control surface autority.

1: Move the control horns foward tward the hindge on the tail. This will let the horn move the tail surface more for the same amount of servo throw. Take a razor knife and slice the tail from the horn tward the hindge, Move the horn. Make sure the horns are in the same place on both sides. Epoxy the horns back in place and use a combination of epoxy and packing tape to reinforce the old hole and your slice. I find this the best way to go, but of course, not the only way.

2 Add a new hole lower on the control horn. Take a small drill bit, or something you can make a small hole with and add a hole below the lowest one. This will also give more movement on the tail. However a few have said they have broken ther control horn becuse drilling that hole weakins it too much,, I think they just made to big a hole,, if A hole just big enough to pass the string is made, dead center on the horn, you will be allright.

3 Replace the control horns. Use horns from another plane in place of the stock ones, they will allow you to mount the strings even closer to the tail then if you made a hole as in method 2. If you employ this methoud you will have to rig a custom mount for the rubber bands underneat,, almost anthing will work as long as the mounts are placed in the same place on each wing to make sure they pull even.

4 Enlarge the control surfaces. This , In my opinion is the worst way to achieve your goal. there are 2 ways to achieve this. First, Take a pair of scisors. from the left or right outside edge, cut tward the hindgeline so the nonemovable section is cut off into a section as wide as the flap. Use packing tape to make a new hindge, and a section of toothpick and epoxy to reinforce the conection between the old flap and the new section of flap, and make sure they move together. Do the same to the other side.
the other way to enlarge the control surfaces are to either add a section onto the exsisting flaps with glue and tape OR, cut the exsiting flaps out and install 1 section flaps that are larger. and attach with packing tape hindges. Almost anthing that is Thin, light, not to flexable and that the tape will stick good to is useable. Sections of credit card, Balsa, laminated styrofoam plates ( chinetts ) or whatever.

Have suggested the 4 methods I feel worth mentioning, I will state this. Yes, There are other ways, Yes, there are drawbacks not listed. Yes, I know not everyone has had possitve results modifying ther ABC tail.

I used the 4th suggestion, both ways. both ways worked, cutting tail and making the surface full tail lengh was the best of the 2, and looked the most factory.
Then I used the second suggestion, That also worked well, But ultimatly, the first suggestion is the one curently installed on my plane and in my opinion, working the best.
Suggestion 1 and 3 can be combined for even more movement, but I dont think it is neccisairy.
I maintence 3 ABC's 1 mine, and 2 for friends. every time I redo one, I usualy try a different way to see if I can find a better way.

Hope the short version of the suggestions is enough to paint the picture in your head. This responce is already reached novel size hehehe. I do not have my digital camera right now, its out on loan, but you should be able to visualize enough to understand.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to,The hell with what they are designed to do."

[LuckyArmpit]

Let me jump in with some facts about the T-52. 1st...it is easy to fly because of the 10 degree dihedral. 2nd, you learn about building with foam and coroplast etc. 3rd, pound for pound, it is the most indestructable model out there. And once you learn the flying techniques of elevator/rudder, you can cut off the center portion of the wing and make it straight. Add ailerons and then you have a high wing aileron trainer.
I learned on a T-52 and so did hundreds of others. Try and fly your slowstick full bore into a tree and show me what happens! I have done this with my T-52. Picked it back up, re-adjusted motor (I had it in with zip ties) re-launched and it flew as always. This was 3 years ago and I stil am flying the wing from it. It is now mounted on a pvc fuse with dual vert stabs.
I'd also suggest a computer TX such as the hitec flash series. You can turn down the throws (length of travel for your control surfaces) while learning and then turn them to normal or beyond once you get used to flying.
Don't get me wrong, a slow stick, wingo, soarstar etc. are all great beginning models but I don't think they can take the full punishment a new flyer can dish out.

Dave...

[guy5927]

Thanks again, Ken...

You should go and aply for a job as senior-chief-engineer-repairman-tester-researcher-developer-designer with Hobbyzone and get a big fatty paycheck every month.... :D

Guy

[Ken-Ohki]

interesting, the t-52 I looked over was made of balsa, looked like a hard landing would take it apart. We must be looking at 2 differnet designs ;p I will admit to having no first hand knowlege of the T-52, so what do I know hehehe.

But in defence of the SS, Ive hit a house full bore, bounced off and regained flight to come back and land,

There are certainly other choices out there, and the thread author seems to need any and all imput he can get. Im curiouse now as to how much it costs and what it comes with,, I have been unable to find a foam T-52 for sale anywhere. Just a few reviews.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Ken-Ohki]

Thanks again, Ken...

You should go and aply for a job as senior-chief-engineer-repairman-tester-researcher-developer-designer with Hobbyzone and get a big fatty paycheck every month.... :D

Guy

Yeah, that would be pretty sweeeet. However I think id rather work for GWS. But it would be a killer Job,, What do you do for work? Ow I fly planes, then tell the designers what I think of them, and how I made them fly better, and that they best make this like that hehehe.

I went flying today with my ABC in some massive winds,, Even got brave and took my SS out for a spin.

a few weeks ago, I ran a add in the local paper asking for land owners to grant me use of ther airspace. I had a real nice lady respond with over 300 acers of grass fields. We went there today, Myself and one of my friends with his ABC. This friend is one of the ones having a difficult time grasping the concept of flight. The winds were 8 ta 10 with a gust up to about 20 every 6 or so minutes, then droped back to light 8 ta 10. His bird had a brand new tail feather installed ( by me ) so I maidened it to make sure it was balanced right. And it was, thing was flying great stock in the wind. I landed, gave it him and off he went. He did ok for about 5 minutes. then it got dicey

he was downwind ( as usual ) and trying to turn upwind for another pass over the field, the wind came up and it took him off tward the powerlines, he manuvers around them and winds up doing a loop over the road just as a truck was going by, he then paniced and wound up crashing in the yard but doing no dammage. That was enough for him, he was done for the day. I on the other hand tossed my bird up for 4 packs and loved every minute of it. every time a giant wind came, i would just point the bird into it and reduce power til it stood in place., then after the big wind cycled out, I went back to normal flying..

Then my friend started to give me crap about how he hasnt seen my SS fly yet. SO, Against my better judgement ( wait a second, I dont have better judgement ) I took out the SS, checked the surfaces and did a ROG from he road with a sidewind. Caught air, flew under the power wires into the field, stayed up about 3 min and the wind hit me. What a fight that was but I managed to keep it under control and in the air. Then I decided I should land, I pointed it into the wind, reduced power and it came down like a choper til it was about 2 foot in the air then it fell to the side. the dam wind droped and it stalled on me. Ended up nose planting it, but doing no dammage.

Tomorrow should be interesting. My friend ( the guy mentioned uo the tread aways that flys big glow ) is taking out his 1/3 piper cub tomorrow. his brother will be there with his ABC. ( the guy that flew with me today ) and another friend of mine will be there with a 2 chan twin. ( I let this friend fly my ABC ) And I will have my SS, ABC and E-starter. we are leaving at 8 so hopefuly we will beat the wind they are calling for tomorrow.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to,The hell with what they are designed to do."

[aquaflight]

Hi ; I've got a 900mah pack with 2 bad cells and 2 1100mah cells that I can repair it with. Is this difference of 200mah going to be an issue? If so why and what might happen? :confused:

[Ken-Ohki]

Aquaflight

I do not think you should fix your 900 mah pack with 1100 mah cells.

I would think that if you went and did it anyway, you would not be able to put any more then 900 mah into the pack. It will most likely charge weird, and I supose there is some limited chance of other hazzard such as fire or bursting. I do not have any hard factual information on this. but it would seem to me that the pack would become unbalaced, and cause other cells to fail, most likely way beofre there time.

It would work, that is to say that you can do it, and it will work to some degree. but here is the line between what you can do ( being anything ) and what you should or should not do.

I am all for making whatever you have on hand do whatever it is you need done, However. In this case, I think its something better left undone.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to,The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

I flew my 2 chanl and crashed it pretty good 2 days ago and after the crash it would no longer work. So i was left with 1 super cheezy yellow bee that had a broken wing and now my slightly less cheezy outlaw that would not work at all so I swapped the parts from the yellow bee and performed some surgery It worked so I am waiting to fly it as soon as it stops raining and the wind dies down. Ken I will try to locate the T-52 I was looking at so you can get a look at it. Who knows as long as I don't have the funds yet might as well take a look. Thing looked pretty sturdy

Here is the site I saw it on

http://www.jkaerotech.com/

Here is another site:
http://www.rccaraction.com/MA/reviews/pocket_plane.asp

[Ken-Ohki]

http://www.jkaerotech.com/

Here is another site:
http://www.rccaraction.com/MA/reviews/pocket_plane.asp


OK, I checked it out, By the description I read its a sport and intermediate training model. I wouldnt call that a beginers plane so I stand by my first impresion of it is to much for a beginer. of course a few planes down teh line it would probably be most suitable.

To bad you trashed your plane, Be cool if your frankinplane flys.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Okay hear me out I got a plan, looks like I will have a few unexpected bills to pay so might have to wait longer on the aerobird than I thought but I had an idea. I was checkin out some of the replacement parts for some of the 3 chan planes at raidentech.com. They have some servos for $8.95 and esc and recievers for 10 bucks each. Now I know you probably get what you pay for in regard of quality but I have ignorance working for me. If you don't know what you are missing you wont miss it. Anyway I was thinking of getting a cheapie remote/esc/servo/ firebird battery and reciever, total about 60 to 70. I am almost possitive they will work since they are all replacement parts for the same plane. It will accomadate an 8.4 volt pack.

I want to use it on my slow stick so I can fly the thing. The back up plan is that if it does not work well I can always convert it to my "frankiplane" I built. Do you see any inherent reason why (other than it being utterly cheap and cheezy ) why it would not work with an SS. I got all excited as I looked at the possibilities. I can tell from flying my creation ( converted Firebird outlaw) that the characteristices are similar to the Yellow bee since it's parts are on the inside though it still flies much like the outlaw. I am swapping out motors tonight.

Speaking of which I had another question. I noticed I have two sets of little motors that are identical all except one set has two "advil" looking things on the connectors and the other doesnt. That set seems to run faster than the other set using the same battery pack so I can only diagnos that it has something to do with the advil looking things. They have a number 10 on them if that helps. Do you know what they do and if they do why they affect performance. I am swapping those into my creation tonight. It lives ! It lives!.

I wanted to know also what do you look for when setting up motor battery combinations for the BEC and ESC. How do you know they can take what you are running and in my case will the one I want to use be able to handle a firebir 900mh bat like the one you use for your SS. Here is a link with the stuff I wanted to get. Can you tell me which servos are better there are two to choose from?

http://www.raidentech.com/raidentech168/3acbaye.html

http://www.raidentech.com/raidentech168/3drflysppa.html

A link for your aerobird : http://www.raidentech.com/raidentech168/aechrtfoemsp.html
http://www.raidentech.com/raidentech168/hoaextoemspp.html


Gotmy creation caught in a tree last night, high in a tree I might add but a few sticks later and I had it back without a scratch. I hope to gradually refit my slowsick with more quality parts but if I wait till I can afford it all I might be waiting a while and I don't want to go midway trying to scale back good parts, I would rather just go super cheap and then get a good set later. Okay what are your thoughts?

[Ken-Ohki]

Well,,,

From what I see on those pages ( wich isnt much ) you could scrap together a flight pack as you sceam to do. However ,,There is almost no information about any of the parts on those pages other then what they are, "No Specks" At best, Id say you are taking your chances.

As far as knowin what to put together for a motor and ESC and such,, It varies plane to plane. There is a program called motocalc ( available for free download ) that helps nderstand a little,, it take sa bit of figuring to get it to work right though,, but definitly worth the time to learn.

the little advil looking things are resistors and help reduce interfearance to your reciver.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[aquaflight]

Thanks Ken ; You are right about putting 900mah together with 1100mah cells or mixing any capacities of any sort. :D I did a little research and found out why. The lesser capacity cells go first (discharge) and then will go reverse polarity. :eek: I guess this is one exception to your motto. ;)

[Ken-Ohki]

Ow heaven forbid there be an exception to the motto hehehe.

The actual saying was originaly. " I can make most anything do what I want, It might only last a few minutes, But It will do it."

but that just didnt have the same ring to it.


here in about 15 miutes I expect a freind of mine to come screaching into my dooryard with 200 bucks in his pocket to go buy his first ABC. With any luck the wind will stay calm enough for him to get to use it. Took him forever to decide between the ABC setup and the SS "real" radio setup, but in the end, Money was the deciding factor,, What he can afford now and still have a few bucks in his pocket.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

She is built just waiting for parts to come in. I used that clear duck tape. I like it works very well from what I can see and it was not that heavy in my opinion. It is as strong as regular duck tape but not so gummy like they grey kind plus its lighter. I think we may hear more on this stuff soon enough it definitly has it's place I think. So far I have added a few fish string cables from the wings to the landing gear. I thought using the landing gear would be good so if I needed to move the CG I could move everything without changing the tension on the lines.

Do you think I should use this 1180 prop or get on of those 1206 (I think ) I want to fly slow as possible so I can learn. I am thinking of shoving a light piece of balsa or some other light wood down the fuse so that it will be more strong for WHEN I crash. I figure I have a week to make mods so I am going to do all that I can. Not yet sure which mod to do for overall wing strength though. you been flyin lately

[Ken-Ohki]

ok, lets try this again, I replied twice last nigte ( at lenght ) and the server seames to have lost my post each time, Perhaps it will be better this time.

TO each his own on wing reinforcements. I do not personaly like the look of struts the fishing line gives, or the time it takes to mess with them. Even with fishing snap swivals, this form of mod isnt for me. I truly love the fact that it takes about 1.5 minutes to put the wing and battery on, preflight and catch air. I have added a pic of my wing reinforcement at the bottom. I believe my method is overkill, and way more then needed, But thats just how I do things.

the 11x8 prop is decent, so is the 12x6, I have used just about every gws prop between 10x4.7 and 13x6 . The prop you need is yet to be determined. things like plane weight, cell count, motor, gearbox, wind all play a role in prop selection. 11x8 ta 12x6 appears to be the most commonly used props. I went to the LHS and purchased about 8 different props ( and some duplicates ) just so i could decided for myelf what was best. I am curently using a 12x6 but the 12x8 is also used allot. You were talking about using the cheep stuff a few post ago, this will also play a factor in what prop you can spin. I pull over 12 amps sometimes. I dont think the cheep stuff will handle that so you would have to use "weaker" pitched and smaller props.

putting a strip of wood down inside the fusilage will strenghten it, some, But I dont think enough to make it worth the weight gain. Not that weight gain on a SS is a problem, However if you wish to fly slow,, You want to be as light as possible, adding more weight will mean a faster stall speed.

Yes, I have been flying flying flew 4 or 5 times saterday moring before the mist became rain and we packed it in.. Saterday, we spent in excess of 5 hours at a new spot I found. Both my SS and my ABC flew repeatedly. as well as my friends. We had 3 ABC's my SS and a Glow powerd alpha trainer.

My friend that just got his ABC, managed 8 flights before his first crash, he is up ta about 20 flights now with a total of 3 crashes, One Lawn dart nose plant, Once from blying bhind some trees and loosing site of it, and once by getting blown into the power lines off the side of teh place in the no-fly zone. Nothing that stoped the plane from flying. Only required a bit of tape to repair some prop gouge on the wing.

The Glow Alpha trainer also crashed but it survived with nothing more then a broken prop. wile doing a mock landing to see how it handled, the pilot cliped a bush at the far side of the runway wile comming down. it cartwheeled the plane pretty good. ( even got video) but it survived. I think this is the first time teh 4 of us flew together that all the planes came back in usuable condition hehehe. Usualy the glow job of the day comes back in pieces.

I on the other hand had a first today. I was showboating ( as usual ) with my SS. I was doing some corkscrew spiral loop de loop things and ejected the battery at about 30 feet. Sent it flying accrost the field like a shotput. Fortunelty, the plane took on a nice circulare orbit loosing about a foot every time it went around, I had time to set my radio down, and walk about 150 feet away to stand under it and wait for it to come down to a hight that I could snag it. And I did ;) It isnt often you come away from a battery ejection in 1 piece.


Below is my wing reinforcement. I used waxed Bow string , 4 long fiberglass rods , 2 short ones, and stock joiners. The front support was hidden up under the wing flush, but the rear support was installed on the bottom of the wing to also serve as a shim to raise the trailing edge of the wing. This wing is solid. I flew it into a goalpost the other day and after the flatspin, it flew away NP.

http://home.gwi.net/~lvdancn/SS-Wing.jpg



Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Wow, nice save! Whats the black stuff on the supports you made. I think I will add some more strength like you did. With the firebird batteries I ordered I just realized that I did not order a charger. Now I have the one I used for my Yellow bee but it usually charged a 4 cell 600 mh battery. Does that mean if I try to charge the firbird batts it will not charge fully or just take longer to charge?
Is it hard to find the CG with this plane, looks like it could be tricky with all the stuff in random places like that. I saw the manual but it still looks tricky. Is there a safe way you go about testing the CG with out actually flying. I didn't know if there is some trick you can do other than try/fly/crash test.

As for the fishing line if I can get it in the car it will be good LOL! I like that wright brothers flyer look and I was impressed with how it all attaches to the landing gear so that moving it does not affect tension. It also allows the landing gear to be used as a drag of sorts since it will flex a little but the gear s also joined together so it does not have much room but it would help to keep it from just snapping. Of Course this is all inexperienced theory which has yet to be proven but I like messing with it.

I also noticed youcanonly muve the tail up so far befor it hits the rudder, did you do anything to combat this. I figure it is probably good for me since I don't how to fly very well yet. I really have seen the beauty in this simple design. I already see why people like them and I have not even flown it yet.

BTW (I may have asked this but) What do you think I will break first so I know what to go buy. Is it likely I will crash it hard the first day out or do most get the hang of it befor needing a new prop or motor? I want to be prepared. I'll get spares if it seems like I will likely need them. Iw was props for the outlaw and wings for the yellowbee. Yellow bee never broke a prop but broke the wing like 8 times. Outlaw never broke a wing but busted props as fast as you could get a new one on.

Thanks for the advice I cant wait to fly this thing, I am patient must....wait... for ... calm ....day......Again... must wait for...calm ...day

[Ken-Ohki]

The black stuff is the waxed bow string i used to tie it all together. after getting it all tied, it was epoxied, again overkill, but its how I do things.

Your theroey for the fishingline braced to the landing gear will work. I just dont like that mod. It is defintily a prferance thing.

the elevators hitting the ruder can be adressed 3 ways, you can set the horns and servos to less movement by using the variouse holes..
if you get a computer radio, you can set it to reduced throws, if a standart radio you might be able to trim it down and readjust the throws.

and lastly, and the most common abd best way, Just check out where its hitting and trim a bit of the rudder away.. I trimed my rudder, but I also use max throws,, when you setup your gear on it, it might not even be a issue.

If I had to guess, I would say broken prop first. but per my prior recomendations, you should buy several in variouse sizes around the stock one ( mostly biger ). the other thing that seems to go for most people is the propshaft, after a nose hit or 2 then become bent or broke,, You can bend them back into shape for the most part. The plane itself is only 35 bucks and You should probably just buy another one as a crash kit. SPare everything that way. SO far, Ihave chewed the teeth off the pinion gear of a 300 motor, Ihave destroyed 1 gearbox, I have folded 1 wing. Also broke some plastic mounting hardware.

today I was using a 10X8 prop on my 400 C gear, a prop the package said would preform poorley, Im my opinion It rocked

CG is very important, especialy for a slow flyer. FOllow the directions, they mark the CG in a picture someplace, I think its 4 1/2 inches from the leading edge, But check your book to make sure.. Just moce stuff around until it balances, The first time I flew my SS the CG was facotry, but needed to be moved forwad over a inch to get it to fly like I wanted it to,, I have since rebuilt it and changed some gear, and the cg is now dead spot on where teh manufacturer recomends. If in dout, make it nose heavy, You do not want it to be tail heavy.



Got another 16 or so flights in today after the rain went away ;) Folded a wing on the ABC, but it was slready dammaged from a few propstrikes. ow well, slapped another one on and was off

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Thaks Ken I can't wait to get back in the air, I have not had anything to fly for weeks now so I am really wanting to try this thing out, as you can tell now that I have said it like 5 times. Yesterday I went back to the Hobby Shop and got 3 more 11 X 80 props. I was going back today to get that plastic servo head thing to make a prop saver out of it like on one of the threads I saw. Among the things I ordered I got an extra 380 motorso at least I'll have two like motors idf it works. They also had balsa posts just about the same size as the SS Fuse so I got a few of those. I think I'll ram it down most of it, don't think I'll be making any tail crashes so hard to bend the fuse. I will pick up some more props like you said that are larger

BTW how does the wing bend it feels so strong I was wondering how they bend so easily,everyone seems to say they have? Do they weaken over time?Also I got some of this cool plastic flooring from some of the guys at work here who are doing construction in our building. It's cool it is 2 ft wide and light as thin plastic painting tarp but is sticky on one side. I saw that and thought of wing repair or wing coating for that matter :rolleyes:

Folded a wing huh. What do you think is the first simple trick I should try, I think you said the SS wont barrel roll. I want to pick something to try to do.......uhhh after a few succesful flights. You know I was using the FMS simulator and realized that the turning with the rudder as oppose to ailerons was very choppy and not smooth. seems like flying with throttle , ailerons, and, elevator was much smoother. I actually never really used tthe rudder. What do you think of the steering? After using the sim it made me think aieron planes are the ticket, yet the SS is poular as ever. Soo what am I missing :confused:

BTW how did you get your motor/ gear to stay on the end of the fuse. I did not want to epoxy it for obvious reasons. I thought of using a screw to anchor it so I could get it back off, I saw that in one of the threads too. Any thoughts? what did you use? I am also tryin to figure out if I want to put an rack of some sort to velcro the electronics to it. Did you velcro or rubberband the stuff to the fuse? I was allllsoooo thinking of running the antenea down the fuse and up over the rudder, is this how you did yours, I don't want it to get caught on anything so I am trying to figure out where to run the thing.

[Ken-Ohki]

SS wings
strictly speaking, If you fly gental, never do trix or crash, the stock wing, prepared as per stick instructions should never fold. But what fun would that be.. Im am sure your wing feels very strong, but,, look at it like this.. all the weight of the plane is being held by the wings wile you are in thr air,, if you start to pull g's. the efective weight increases.. if Im not mistaken ( and I could be, but it does work like this ) your 1 pound plane flies through the air. the wings are suporting 1 pound of weight,, but,, pull back on the stick, say, 3 g's your 1 pound plane is now applying the force of 3 pounds on that wing. now imagin 9 g's 9 pounds.. Do you think you can hang a 9 pound weight under your wing and pick it up by the wingtips?. And we havent even factored in the wind sheer forces at work wile flying. So dont overestimate the strenght of the stock wing. Overkill is the word of the day when building a SS wing.

Your tile sounds interesting,,, imidiatly, I think it might be usefull in atlering the shape of the wing, make it flat bottomed.. but i wouldnt worry about that right now.


Tricks huh,, Im asuming you mean on the SS. FOr your first several flights, Just flying is a good trick. but after you get a feel for it, It loops like crazy, and will do inverted pretty easy. Stalls, and whipturns are also easy

I find turning with only a rudder very easy on the SS, it can be violent and smooth if you ease into it, or violent and jerky if you just hold over teh stick,, Most of it really boils down to piolet finess. I find my SS much easyer to control then my E-Starter, but teh estarter has more control, so naturaly, it is harder, be gental with teh sticks, it will fly gental.

I used a screw to mount my gearbox to the fusilage. I have also used clear tape, and that worked tooo.

I used double sided tape to hold my reciever, hasnt let go yet , and it has definitly been stressed, I also routed my antena through a hole on the rear wing mount and the rear rod holder ( the v shaped thing the rods got through between the wing and the tail ) I then just let it hang from there. I also use 3 rubberbands to hold my battery in place, I used to use 2 but since I ejected my battery the other day I use 3 now.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

:rolleyes: How long a flights do you get on your setup anyway. I went back to the hobby store , no chore it's fun and hard to go and just look, my wallet seems to just jump out of my pocket and star gettign things to by, reall I'm powerless to stop it. :D

Got some 5/32 brass tubing so I am making another brace like how you did on yours. I also got an larger prop cant remember the size but it was noticable bigger thicker in the scoup part. Got my parts in the mail today..oooo its like Christmas in May 28th. LOL ! Servos were smaller than I thought, batteries were bigger. Chunky little buggers they are. Oh yea what did you think about my charging these firebird batts a=on my 600 mah charger I had for my yellow bee. Will it just take longer or will I not get a full charge?

Today I took time to read about all the SS first flights so that I could grasp any last tips befor and making it nose heavy to tail heavy was seconded and thirded by a few as I read some had come to that conclusion by way of crash. I also heard gentle turns and big open space and that it glides down easy if you mess up. Well if you have any last tips before I maiden her let me know and as always thanks for helping me get this far.

[Ken-Ohki]

Brass Tubing? I didnt use that, but others have, I just used some fiberglass rod and tied it on. ( still holding strong too ). I know what ya mean about teh wallet in the hobby store. I usualy cant get out of ther under 100 bucks..

Cant remember your prop sizes? For shame, for shame hehehe, You prop will make or break you good time, but as long as it is close to recomended you will be ok. as example, My estarted had a 10x8 on it, it flew decent but lacked power. I acidently put on a 11x4.7, it still flew but way lacked power, when I got it down I discovered my mistake, and put the 11x8 on that I ment to. Now that prop made the plane come alive and made it dance like I have never seen it. Strongly recomended you buy several prop sizes and pitches so you can experiment to find whats best.

What did you end up buying for a plight pack? did you go cheap or buy real?? I wouldnt worry about small servos on the SS, other planes might not like tem, but the SS is so slow you should be ok.

battery chargin. you need a minimum of .2 volts more per cell to charge properly, .5 more is better, less voltage then that will not properly excite the battery to charge. SO, to properly charge a 7 cell pack, you need a charger that will output from 9.8 volts (acceptable ) ta 11.9 volts ( high end of good ) if you do not have enough voltage the pack will not properly charge, and bever become full... As far as amperage, or MAH, you can charge a 1000 MAH battery with a 50 MAH charger, it will take awile, but it will do it.so low amps on the charger is ok, it will just be slow, But low volts on the charger and you are wasting your time. Another word on charging, having more voltage then required is ok to a point, for instance, last year when I got back into this hobby, I could not afford a charger right off, I charged my packs with a 30 volt 500 mah wall transformer. with no load, the charger showed 36 volts, but when connected to my 7 cell battery pack, the line voltage droped down to whatever the pack needed, teh excess voltage I believe converted to MAH. but in any case, it worked very well, I would put my meter on it and watch it charge, and manualy stop it once I noticed the battery peak., after 2 or 3 days, I could just read the pack voltage, and know it neeed 30 mimutes or whatever charge time. Now, I am not suggesting you charge like that. I only mentioned it to show you what is possible.

My SS will take off land and fly within the confinds of the infield of a baseball diamnond. In fact, it will fly in conciderably less space then that if you need it to. SO that should give you an idea of how tight this plane can manuver. Naturaly, the more open air you have around you the better. The plane will fly gental or violently, one of the reasons its so populare.

Sometimes when you mess up it will recover itself, it depends how high you are, and how bad your rness up is. The plane also glides very well, I do all my landings deadstick with it from about 30 feet up, it almost lands itself with just a little imput from me to keep it in line with my landing area.

remaining tips.
1 Be gental with the controls.
2 more the 5 mphs wind is no good to learn this plane, Once learned, I fly in exxess of 10 mph with mine.
3 Be gental with the controls.
4 Make SURE your battery pack is securly held to the plane.
5 Did I mention be gental with teh controls?
6 ROG your maiden, you will be closer to teh ground or might not even take off if something is wrong, but if you hand launch, you are already starting 6 feet in the air, thats 6 extra foot of drop if something is wrong.
7 Ow forget all that and just fly
8 Ignore #7 ;p

seriousely thought, you should be fine. dont forget your CG. This plane dont like to be tail heavey. And recheck your CG before every flight, especaly your first flgiht of the day after putting on the wings.

Ow, I almost forgot, here is a little pilots voodoo for you. ( Superstition ) You must Name you plane before your maiden, its bad luck to fly a plane with no name, And heaven forbid you pick the wrong name and the plane dont like it.

My Cobra is named "Headstrong" becuse I was told it was to much plane for me, well, it isnt/wasnt, So I felt it a suitable name.

My ABC is named " Tsunami Huntress" When I maidened her it was blowing close ta 20 mph. I almost lost her when she got downwind and very high on me. But I would not give up, I stayed on the sticks and made her come back. Not bad for my first 3 chan plane. Tsunami is a japanese word, as with many Jap words, there is no direct literal translation. It means. A Great Wall of Water, so I took a liberty with the translation to English, and translate it as "Great Wall of Wind" or in my planes case, "Female wind Hunter".

My SS is named the "Red Baroness" I kept calling it the red baron, and Its a sin to give a plane a males name, I had something else in mind for her but I kept refuring to it as the Baron, so a quick sex change to the word and the Red Baroness was born

My E-Starter is named " RumpleTeazer" Just becuse its my favorite cats Name from the broadway musical "Cats". And this plane is very playful like a cat.

My Canard is named "Candy" becuse she flies so sweet ( slower then the SS ) She is a 1 chan walmart ARF and is a ideal first flight toy.

My fleet of cheesy black planes simply got named X1 - X4 becuse they all suck. The X-4 is still sitting in a box brand new awaiting me to figure out how to properly modify the X-3 for aceptable flight, once determined, The X-4 will will get the mod done profesionaly ( by me of course ) the X-1 is in pieces, the X-2 is also all tore up through countless experiments to try to make her fly. I suppose if I ever get it to fly, the X-4 will recive a more proper name. ( perhaps this is an example of a plane not liking its name and refusing to fly as per the rules of superstition. )

My little red twin is named "Addiction" becuse she currupts all my friends and addicts them to R/C flight , almost on contact. Everyone I have let try this plane has gone and bought themselves a R/C or is curently saving up for one.

Guess thats all from the book of Ken-Ohki this time out.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Thanks for all the insight and plane "vodoo" sideponts. I named my plane "Little Mime" was just the first name that came to me though this plane does inspire the name Red Baron of some kind. My roomate called it that when he first saw it.

Okay to date here is how it has gone so far. On Friday night I went to bed really early like 9pm and woke up at 1:30 am. It was late so I started working on Mime. I was up till 9am when I felt it was ready. I was tied but hapy. I ended up getting a Firebird charger that morning . Had to go half way to philly to get it :( Got a flat on the way :mad: Got back and started thinking about my plane again :). It was windy so could not fly it that day plus I wanted to view the handywork for a while in case destruction was waiting for me.

I also got a saudering iron 60 watt couldnt find a higher one at the HB store but I see why you said too. I kicked my self for not listening, fortunatelly it was only 6 bucks though. I'll get a better one. It worked but just took a while. I later got an idea. I was looking in my trunk and saw an umbrulla and saw the ribs on it and was like hmmmnn. These are light and made for supporting weight. I then saw my other umbrulla and realized I had 2. Don't need 2 umbrullas now do I. :p So I hacked into on and epoxied two of the steel ribs to the wings. Man that increased the strength alot. I have a digital camera so I will try to get some pictures for you. That night I took it to a parkinglot. I know I know concrete but I did not want it to leave the ground. I wanted to see whether it would roll straight and if the balance was right for wheel lift off. It kept nosing up extreamly then getting blown backwards and landing so I took it home. I changed the CG a bit and tried again the next day. Then it dawned on me I read somewhere to put the battery in front of the wing. So I moved it( I can still get my wing off too BTW) I also resupported the tail wheel and edges of the wing. I also used a piece if fishing line and connected my landing gear to the screw on the motor mount that I put in. That held the landing gear in place by pulling it from both sides.

Went back out last night again for some more preflight test ( 3rd outing) and I think the weight is closer to right but my plastic wheels broke from all the bouncing ( cheap things ) I think the CG is alot closer on but it was cut short duto the fact it would not roll. The wing was very sturdy. I can hold the tips and bounce it up and down with little movement.

As for my prop sizes I am using the 11X 80 prop and I also bought the next one bigger, that wa all they had. This is a very strong plane. It rolls at 1/3 throttle and takes off at a little over 3/4ths to give you an idea of the weight if my plane. I want to find a scale I am curious, I am sure it is heavy from all my reinforcements. I am going to get some new wheels today or tomorrow and just wait for a realy good day. And yes I went with my El Cheapo fight pack. Works pretty well but not that great of range. I accidentally broke my antenea and solderd it back together. Could that mess up the range at all?

From nose to tail this is what I did so far. I made a prop saver using a servo white plastic thingy and a rubber band. I put a screw in to hold the motor on the Fuse. i put a piece of balsa down the fuse ( Had a time of that it was snug)I reinforceed the leading edge of the wing with 12'' of brass. I reinforced the middle of the wing with anothe v shaped 12' peice of brass that rested on the wings using some flat balsa 3 mm thick to spread out the contact point. I then used a 5 inch piece of brass and the umbrella ribs to support the trailing edge. I stuck the umbrulla ribs in the v shaped brass
tubing and taped and epoxied as I did for all of them. I also had heavy fishing line going fron the leading edge corner and half way down the wing to the landing gear. and from half way down the trailing edge to the geaar and from the motor mount to the gear holding the gear abd the wing in place. As for the electronics. I have the battery being held with "2" rubberbands on some more of that 2 inch 3 mm thick flat balso under neath the clips. I also have the battery heabvy duty velcroed to stop sudden jerks during impacts. Mine slipped out of the rubberbands the first time. I mounted the the servos the regular wauy and ran the antena how you did yours. I mounted the ESC and Reciever on the flat balsa with velcro. All edges except the trailing edge are taped. The tail wheel has a piece of coat hanger to support it and fishing line pulling the other way to provide tension. I cut and smoothed a notch to allow full elevator movement and I thinks thats it. So there you have it. I must Admit I used a lot of tape and alot of epoxy. Almost a whole roll of the clear ducktape which I love by the way and about 25 little mixings of epoxy. It takes about 25 ft to start to have lift. Is that close to right. I must admit I was paying no attention to wind direction

BTW I did on one of my test flights use the down elevator and a little bit of turn to keep it next to the ground and I found that to be very smooth to use and I was like WOW that was so much better that a 2 channl. I can see that this plane can bee majorly affected by wind so it looks like I am going to have to wait for a seriusly calm day or I'll never get the CG right. SO I figuured I would take a bunch of low level ground test and I am so glad I did.I made a lot of changes in the way of reinforment as I saw how small bounces effected this particular plane. I feel pretty confident of handling a decent crash now. I hope to do a maiden tomorrow but I will wiat for the right day. It's easier to wait with more work having gone into it. Ha Heehee. Know what I mean. I like seeing it in my room and admiring its simple design and would like to do what I can to keep it looking in one piece.

BTW when the CG on this plane is right how will it take off , straight up , smooth and easy heavy on the nose??? And when I cut power what should I be looking for it to do?. How do you suggest I take off this plane seems to slide around alot more than my other two. They would take off and go pretty much up and then start to veir fter about 15 ft but it was easy to correct by then. I know I have not gone up high only 3 ft or so but each time I did it seemed to stand on its tail almost except the time I put some down elevator. THat was too cool! That was also before I moved the battery to in fron of the wing. Anyway thats the latest I am enjoing all the tset flights and experiments it is makin g me more confident of a more sucessful maiden.

[Ken-Ohki]

well, It certainly seems you have a cg issue happening. It also appears you have indeed added a good bit of weight in teh way of reinforcement. THis particulare plane can handle allot of extra weight, but most in this catigory cant, so keep that in mind. Lighter is generaly better. But some weight does also have its advantages.

the 11x8 and 12x6 seem to be most favored for the SS, so you should be ok there. But that 25 feet for R.O.G. strikes me as odd.. Especialy from pavement.
Facing the wind, my SS will lift off within 2 feet. It will take off instantly if there is more then 5 mph winds or so. Running with the wind, It requires no more then 5 feet, From gravel, the liftoffs are about 50% longer runs. With this plane, I pay no attention to wind direction on takeoff, I ROG in whatever direction my best runway is with no problems. But I do suggest into the wind until you are comfortable with it.

When I maidened my SS, it was way tail heavy, took off vertical then ovver backwords when I tried to touch off. Ended up mounting the battery in front of the wing to get it to fly right, my wing was to far forward, and I ened up balancing on a CG way off of speck becuse it was teh most simple quickest way to get it to work in the field.. Your wing needs to be slid rearword some if you battery has to be that far forward.

Some pix of the setup would be helpful, but it apears you are well on your way to gettingit in the air.

I just took my SS off the flightline. But not becuse anyhting was wrong with it, I needed parts.

read about that here
Bad Day (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236215)

So having lost my smaller ESC, I had to choose wich plane to keep in the air. I decided on the E-starter over the SS becuse of its ability to fly in stronger winds, and the fact that it has ailerons. SO I striped the 20 amp esc out of her, and took the borrowed servos and radio out of her to be stuck back in a alpha trainer, , SO for at least I month I think, the SS will be sidelined. Ive been meaning to buy it its own flightpack anyway.

Then I descovered the motor on the E-Starter died as well, Luckly I had a replacement, so on goes a new motor, then I discover the gearbox is messed up, Luckily I also has a spare one of those too. So now my estarter is setup, all glued together again, and has the addition of a round servo horn on the ailerons, allowing the one moving up to move more then the one moving down, Unfortunely, I lost some overall movement becuse the circulare servo horn isnt big enough, Im hoping the uneven movement will make up for the Less movement thing, If it dont guess ill have to add that to my shopping list.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

I got some pictures but I cant figure out how to get them onto the sight. Sorry bout the SS I know you like to fly her. I'm gonna shoot some better shots and send em to you. I will also move the wing back. I broke the wheels off so I am going to make some skids while I wait to get some new ones. And yea I thought it might be a long runway taking that long to get off the ground. I think it is just really heavy which you will likely see. Let me know if I need to move up a motor cause I definately could never see this thing getting off the groung in under 15 ft that was about the shortest one when I was going in the wind once and I don't want to be underpowered, had enough of that with my two chanl which I effectionatly name the Red one and the Yellow one. Bigger motor hnmnn :rolleyes: I like it. When I see other SS's fly they do seem to take off instantly like you said or with almost no runway. Also do you use any up stick to get it off the ground maybe that is why. I was jut letting it roll til it gathered enough lift to pick itself up. Is that right?

What do you think about the Ski/ skid idea. I am now thinking it might create enough drag on take off it might not take off, may just run along the ground. Ha hA don't want that. I took some more pictures I think these are better tried to put them up but no go. Need to figure out how :confused:
BTW did you mount the motor on top or bottom of the fuse mine is on top?


I do like the idea that you can just change the motor size and the current weight no longer matters. Also any thougts on the Antenea issue. I soldered the thing after breaking it on that mini crash and I am not sure if that is why the range is short. Could that have anything to do with it.

[Wingtips24]

sorry tried something dint work

[Ken-Ohki]

Skis might work, You would probably be better off stealing wheels from one of your other planes. personaly, I dont think I would use them, but Hey, ya have to do what ya have to do to fly. ROG might be conciderably longer, but your landing should be ok provided you can come in smooth for it.


You didnt state weather it was the TX or RX antenna you broke. SOme will tell you it dont matter, then others ( like me with 20+ years ham radio experience ) will tell you that antena length, and the resistance of said antenna is very important.

If it was the Rx antenna ( reciver ) so long as you have not lost any length, It should be ok, But on the TX ( transmitter ) Length and resistance is very important. If it is your TX, you would probably be best off replacing it. It will work, dont get me wrong, but it will certainly affect range to some unknown degree.

My motor is mounted on top becuse it gives me the most prop clearance to the ground.

I am not sure how far my SS will roll before it takes off on its own, I always pull back the stick after it starts rolling, Perhaps it is why you have such a long ROG.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Okay is has been determined that my SS is indeed to heavy. At least for the motor I have on there. I had caved in and bought some wheels from the HBS. That of course added even more weight. So I took the plane home after trying once again to fly and I stripped it of my umbrella mounts and the tires and a tone of duck tape. I also kept every thing I took off in a pile to sort hand weigh it. I was amazed to see that the weight felt to be about 1/3 of the planes weight which gave me new found respect for thew SS ability to haul stuff. And this is with the post stillinserted in the fuse for support and My two balsa and brass brasses so I estimate ruffly 1/2 the planes weight was in reinforcements. No woder it would barely lift off the ground after 50 ft.

I am going back to the HBS to get some supper small wheels. I might grab the ones of a spare Aerobird Extreme they have landing gears for. I hope to try it again today sometime outfitted with severly less weight. Well see but I did test it last night with just the umbrella braces gone and it got up in the air after good 20-25 ft. I think I may remove one of my braces because I don't think it is the best way to support for the weight it has. I think I can do just as much for about half the weight by redoing it. I love epoxy but I need to chill with the stuff. After I saw how heavy it had become I stopped mixing the 3 gallons of epoxy I was gonna dip my plane in. Ha HA! Yea I think I should start thinkin more how to get more strength for little weight. I wasnt as concerned as I should have been with that while I was building. You know I was looking at my plane last night and I noticed that my gear said D on it is that right. I thought stock came as C but maybe it was D :rolleyes:

It's funny somtimes you make adjustments and hope it works then sometimes you finally know its goona work if you do a certain thing. I do believe I will hae flight on this next round. ( I did get about 4 ft last night and flew for about 14 ft. Was a great shortlived feeling that made me say I'm almost there.

As far as the antenea it was on the RX or reciever. I think RX means the reciever. I think I broke it when stretching the the wing into place I grabbed the antenea line and didn't realize it and pulled it apart about 10 inches from the box itself. I soldered it back together but I wasnt sure if it would be affected by it.

You been flying in the last day or two? My flights have been in a big open extremly well lit parkinglot and oh yea second prop got cracked but I can still use it but boy were you right these things seem to have a deep desire to break.

[Craig Mckinley]

I have also started out with a ABC and have no regrets. When anybody starts for the first time they want a machine that can take the punishment and thats the best thing about an ABC.
I have found that the best way to get extra flying time out of the ABC is simply to fly in half power and look for a few good glides, its still a lot of fun and if you feel control is a little soft then you can always power up as required. By the way My biggest error was staying in sports mode-go straight to pro mode ironically its more easy than sports.

Happy Landings

Best regards
Craig Mckinley

[Ken-Ohki]

After reading your reinforcement method and the exceptionaly long ROG, I was kinda snickering to myself imagining half a roll of duct tape applied to the bird and the metal umbrella bracing. I do believe you went a tad over the line of overkill. Funny how the plane actualy lifted all that weight hehehe.

There are several stock combinations, the only real way to be sure of your ratio is to count the teeth on both gears, then do a little division. I am sure you have a suitable gear box. All you have to do is find the "Magic" prop size for your bird.

about your antennsa wire. It is Highly possible you have dammaged the wire, Stretching it like you did could cause a gap someplace in teh casing, or even just poore conductivity caused by a stretch can be a problem. I would carefully take a razor and expose a little wire at the RX side, then at the end, and use a meter on it to see if you have a connection from end to end and verify the wire is in tact. The antenna wire can be replaced with another similure wire, make sure the gauge , type of wire, and lenght are as exact as possible. soldiering it is fine so long as the rest of the wire is undamaged.

Yes, I have been flyinh a little. Had a bit of a bad experience at work with my plane the other day. Had just rebuilt my E-Starter, and had yet to maiden it from its refit. We dont have allot of room down at the warf for takeoffs and landings, but there is enough if your good enough to hit it.

SO I toss my bird, I climb out as steep as possible to clear the trees and other obsticals. I get my height over the lobster traps and building then bang the ailerons left and pull back the stick for a hard turn to double back and continue my climb tward free air space. Guess who made a stupid newbie mistake? ( Ken-Ohki raises his hand ) I forgot to revere my ailerons, and they were backwords. ( and dammit, I knew thery were toooo, just forgot to fix it.) I verifyed movement during preflight, but didnt really pay attention to what was moving, just kinda circled the sticks, saw everything was moving and went for it. ( Bad habbit ) SO anyway.,, Plane banks right Hard and comes around right at a tree. (wonderfull, Im 45 feet in the air if im a inch ) And the plane is also running down wind now after the turn. So I pull back, climb over the tree spending every bit of speed I had to climb verticaly. Just as the plane was stalling I managed to push the nose down enough to regain some forward velocity and establish flight again, (Whew!! a fair bit of piloting if I do say so myself ) then disaster reared its head again. Dam reversed ailerons got me again, I went to manuver into a position to land and flew right into another tree, Now Im Like 60 feet in the air stuck in a tree hanging on by my front landing gear. ( hell of a time for the landing gear to actualy hold for a change ) Using the throttle I was able to bounce the plane on the branch, but it wasnt comming free.. SO off to the truck I go to get my plane rescue Kit ( 150 fee of rope and a Iron weight ) Just as im getting ready to toss it up ,The plane falls and lands in another tree about 15 feet off the ground.. So I climbed this tree, and brough my plane down by resting it on different branches as I climbed back down..

After I got it down, I fixed my radio, put a new pack in and was off again, This time I had a decent flight, Got brave and flew out over the ocean a bit. ( all the wile envisioning me racing out to recuse it in the company skiff if it went down out there, But I was fortunet. Til it came time to land. I came around and setup to land and discovered we have a weird wind there becuse of the trees and buidlings. wile comming in I was dealing with a cross wind, but as soon as I got past the building, the wind stoped and all of a sudden I was heading tward the building at low power. I punched the gas, aborted the approach and went around again, The second attempt was much better, except I ended up rolling allot further then enticipated, Ended up wacking the ForkLift but did no real dammage.

I definitly do not like the current aileron setup I have, I am going back to making them both swing full throw. I am also concidering putting a 400 in this plane too.

I also got bored today after work and decided to attempt the impossible. I am adding ailerons to my SS in spite of everyone ( including myself ) who says it wont work well. Well, Thats enough reason for me to do it. I am fairly certain that others are having problems do to a wing that is to flexable, So I am addressing that as well in my mod. Be interesting to see how it works, Unfortunetly, Ill have to take apart my E-Starter to test it.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Ken-Ohki]

My biggest error was staying in sports mode-go straight to pro mode ironically its more easy than sports.



That is definitly correct. Sports mode is a waste of time. Definitly always use Pro Mode. I tought 6 people to fly with the ABC, 2 of them refused to head my instruction about pro mode and 2 things happened subsiquently. 1 gave up becuse he coudlnt fly as good as he thoguht he should be able too and could not deal with the stress of crashing. The other is still a terrible pilot even though he started flying close to a year ago. The others that went right to Pro mode have had less crashes, and they are now much better pilots then they thought they would be at this point.


Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Craig Mckinley]

Ken-Ohki; I am glad you own a E-Starter because after much thought and study I have decided to choose that plane as my first upgrade from My ABC. The reviews for this plane have been good and I can get spares and this may seem silly but it looks like an aeroplane. Just a few questions please. If I crash it and do some structural damage how repairable is it? How forgivable in the air is it? What about landing and take-off how well does the landing gear work? If you can help Me I would really appreciate it.

Thanks

Craig

[Ken-Ohki]

Craig

The plane being made of foam makes it very repairable, even if you dont find all the pieces. I find gorilla glue to fill the crack of any missing part I dont recover.

In the air it flys resonably well, It is capable of mild areobatics but is not a stunt plane. I fly mine in excess of 15 mph winds without any real problems.

The landing gear leaves a bit to be desired, the front gear breaks offoften, However, after 4 or 5 reglues, I think it is much stronger now becuse of all the epoxy in that area. The rear landing gear does allright, but that leeds us to another issue with that plane, the tail section is VERY weak, and very pften breaks on conctact with the ground no matter how gental you manage to land, It is highly recomended you reinforce the tail section during assembly to prevent this weakspot from failing, A simple bamboo skewer embedded and epoxeid into the lower seam during assemblly.

Mine requires about a 20 foot runway to catch air, and it comes down rather well deadstick ( my prefured landing method ) All and all it is a good Stepping plane. although it needs a little reinforcement, Try to build it as light as possible.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Craig Mckinley]

Ken-Ohki thanks very much. There is a lot of recomendation and mods for this aeroplane I have to start collocting this information so it can be used when I build the plane. How about the wheels on quite a few of the various photos of the E-Starter I have noticed different wheels? One of the few complaints is that the battery hatch falls off?

Thanks
Craig

[Ken-Ohki]

the diffrence in the wheels are just individual pilot taste. I still use the stock wheels on mine, havent managed to break them yet, but I do have some foam ones to put on. ( one of these days )

The battery hatch does leave allot to be desired. I tried to mount mine twice, it poped off both times, so then I threw it away. The battery compartment on mine has been hollowed out to fit my batterys snuggly, then I used some packing tape and a few rubber bands, and it seems to be in there pretty good now.

I replaced the motor and gearbox on mine again today, now it has a potenski timed 300 with a 5-1 gearbox and im starting with a 10 x 7 . I just tested it in my room and it actualy lifted vertical out of my hands and tried to hover. I cant wait to try it, probably gonn ahead out here in a bit to see what it does.

On a more depressing note, I lost the prop on my ABC today,, In flight no less, Still trying to figure out that one. I failed to recover it, but the plane made a safe landing. I do have a spare, but it was at home, so the ABC didnt get much airtime today.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Craig Mckinley]

Ken-Ohki Thanks for your reply.
I will pay close attention to the battery hatch when I build the aircraft, I will print and file your reply for reference.
Regarding ABC: your no orphan Ken-Ohki. I just got back from flying my bird today and the prop fell off on the ground during take-off the sudden drop in speed and some spongy grass caused it to roll over-no damage. I have been recomended to put a drop of super glue on the prop but I have not done so. Can you pease let Me know how your Mods perform.

Thanks Ken-Ohki

Craig Mckinley

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Where did I leave off. Okay I was pretty sure I would have victory. Welllll okay heres what happened. I took off my unbrulla supports and yes the ducktape and grabbed my trustie cheppie radio and headed for the parkinglot I have been rolling on.He haa This time I got lift YESSS, for about 2 seconds and then it cartwheeled as an edge cagught the ground and prop crack NNNOO!! Still took along time to get up so I am going to remove more of my tank armor to lighten it up some more.Got a new prop and I am almost ready to go. I was supprised I even got all that epoxy up off the foam. Scratched it up a bit but not to bad. Hooefully ill fly again in a day or two when the wind dies down. So still not in the air but ever striving!

[Ken-Ohki]

Can you pease let Me know how your Mods perform.




Right now, I have 3 mods in place on my ABC tail. the first, is a lower hole was punched on the horn, The horn itself has been moved forward very close to the hindge. and my control surfaces go the full lenght of the tail.

Now that I have had some flight time wih it, I am truly impreessed with it. My ABC no longer suffers from lack of Down authority, and it will loop 6 or more times from level flight now. It is much easier to get it upside down and hold it there. and it also will roll now if ya get it just right.

There are 2 drawbacks to my 3 mods combined. One I actualy like, and the other a mear inconviniance.....

First off, trimming the tail on the ground is a bit difficult, I lay a ruller accrost them to make sure they are level. No big deal.

And secondly, As a result of the increased control surfaces, the plane has becume a litle bit twitchy, By that I mean it takes very little movement on the stick to get a result in the air, If you go hard over it really snaps too.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Ken-Ohki]

Cant beleive you aint got that thing in the air yet. where are the pix?

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

remember I couldn't figure out how to get get them on this site. But I need to shoot some new ones by now anyway due to the fact that the plane no longer looks like it did when I first took the pictures. I have been somewhat disenchanted about working on it the last 3 days but it is building up in me again. I was feeling like I'd never get the sucker to fly right so I had to chill for a minute. I think I will have at it tonight or tomorrow so I can try again. This is the only plane I broke 2 props and now bent a shaft on and never got 20 ft high or long :p
Oh well I'll get it. What do you think of my balsa fuse insert and using the two pieces of 12 inch brass tubing. Too heavy? Doesn't matter? I also purchased some new smaller wheels and some needle nose plyers since that seemed hands down to be the tool I found myself saying :rolleyes: I wish I had a pair of... Will keep you posted BTW Let me know how you put your pics up

[Ken-Ohki]

Hmmmmm.. ok,, something about all this is bothering me. I mean Dam, I can fly my SS over 20 oz all up weight. Even with a puddle of epoxy, And half a roll of tape, you should not be excedding that.

However if you used that new duct tape, that is conciderably heavier then the Mailing tape I use. That could be part of it. Shoving that wood down the tube is certainly adding allof of weight ( warned ya that was a non recomended reinforcement )12 inches of brass tubeing? that could also be adding conciderable weight.

But even concidering all that, the plane should fly. You need to weigh the plane, Get the all up weight including battery. A food scale works well, but you might have to weigh the battery seperatly, mine only goes ta 16 oz. You can also usualy get the post office to weigh it for you if they arent busy.

I am aslo sorta thinking it might have something to do with the esc you are using, It being a "toy" esc, it might not be working to capasity or like a traditional one ( for instance, it might be limiting drive voltage ).. Also,, what type of batterys are youu using?? if you are using AA or AAA size in any of its variances, chances are that is your problem, You should be using a 6 or 7 cell pack, 8 cell is ok but not the best choice. If yourising a pack under 500 mah capasity, this could also be a problem. That plane should want to draw 8 ta 11 amps properly proped.

As far as posting pix. My pix are on my website ( provided free of charge from Rc-Groups ) and from the advanced reply window, you can select the little letter looking icon on top, then put the url to the pic in there.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want then to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Wrote a reply and now its gone....huh. Owell the shorter version is that must have forgot about the post so I'll get rid of that and I am using the same pack as you I thin 900mah and 7.2 volt 6 cell. How much did you get yours for? Hopefully I will get a chance to work on it tonight but it is going to be a late daty at work. I was going to ask you for an email address to send you pictures till I realized everyone could see it. If I send you a yahoo address can you send me an email there an I can email some pics after I take some new ones.

[Ken-Ohki]

I am using the 7 cell aerobird pack on my SS most often, But it does fly on the 6 NP. the 6 cost like 25 bucks, the 7 was close ta 30. If you are using that battery, then teh battery is not a issue. that leaves just the ESC. or possibly weight as the remaining possibilities for why it dont fly.

Did the esc you got come with any specs? I remember there was like no info on the webpage you got it from.

I sent you a Email with a addy you can write too. Ill host your pix on my site for this thread.

Personly, I am packing up to go camping. I am bringing my ABC, the SS and my E-starter with a brand new 400 I just put into it. I replaced the escape I burned up the other day. I will probably also bring a 2 chan arf ( addiction ) just in case I run accrost someone who needs to be Hooked. I plan on bringing a 4 man tent Just to hangar my planes in . The campground has a giant field, At least 2 football fields long and close ta 4 wide. And the Best part of it all is,, My campsite is right in the most remote corner of it. ( and also on the water for access with my Bass boat.) So I will be gone from friday ta monday. I am also bringing one of my Better student pilots with me so we should have a blast :)

I can see it now, we have 6 miles of river to run, Usualy about 15 ta 20 foot wide, I can see us now getting brave and flying down the river chasing my plane with my boat. Of course I dont have any floats on any of my planes, so that means its catch it or swim for it when it comes time to land if we do that.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Sorry been so long been busy at work and just felt like veggin when I got home. How was your camping trip? I have been super busy at work myself so that has had me pretty tied up but there will be a small break for a short bit. I have the 6 cell 7.2 colt batt. Hmmnn I wonder if the 7 cell makes that much of a diffference. I also took aalot more weight off the bird just need a calm day to try it now. Did you have any accidents while you were out with your planes. I hope the wind dies down soon so I can give it a shot.

My 6 cell by the way cost me $10 if you want one you can get them at raidentech as replacement ABC batteries. Windy today maybe tonight.

[Ken-Ohki]

GRRRRRRRRR

Ok once again, I have made a reply at length, and the *&^T&@%#$*&%#$&*^ server saw fit to discard or misplace it. Appears the page timed out wile I was writing it.

Man that frys me

Ill respond again later once I cool off.

Ken-Ohki

[Wingtips24]

I know what youu mean, okay man I had a flight short but a flight is was! I took off in my usual parking lot and it started to climb and turn to the left. I was afraid to give it some left rudder to quick before I got air but thet may have been a mistake cause it went too far left and started loosing altitude and crashed into the edge of the cement sidewalk. Broke my plastice gearing thing and the motor was hanging by the wire. I was like aww man cause it was the first flight but since it climbed pretty good I was happy so I got to get that straight befor I ry again.

Hope I can this weekend it was 2 in the morning when I went out. Ihad to fly I'm sure you understand. :D Other than that no other damage so at least there is nothing else to fix. It seems like this will be such an easy plane to fly I cant wait till I get a sustained flight and land out of choice rather than by accident. It's friday and I am glad the weekend is here, gonna try an relax a bit since work has been so busy. Think I'll see what I can do about that motor gear tonight. Looks bad but I think I can fix her up pretty easily especially since it was plastic and the pieces fit back together so no gues work on the fit. Well I am about out of here so I'll catch you soon, Until then don't take out to many birds. Haa hee

[Ken-Ohki]

ok, lets try this again.

My weekend camping trip went pretty good.. Had a time getting all my campnig stuff and my planes in teh truck.

http://kenohki.rchomepage.com/packed%20planes.jpg

We got there friday afternoon and set up camp noticing it was very windy.
after a hour or 2 of noting the wind wasnt going away, I said screw it and
tossed my ABC up into a 20mph + wind. I flew around for the pack and
landed No problems, but it really was too windy for my friend to fly. So we

hung it up til morning. Stuffed the planes into there hangar and sat by the

fire most of the night.

http://kenohki.rchomepage.com/plane%20hangar.jpg

Saterday morning all was still, So Up went my SS and my Eastarter, then my
Friend tossed his ABC. Well, it was pretty simple to see he was having
problems right off the bat, and the poor plane ended up in the river ;(.
When we got there it was still running, fully submerged, wings at water level.


It took a few hours of drying aided by 20 min or so of my air compressor blowing into it

http://kenohki.rchomepage.com/plane%20drying.jpg
Note the inverter powering the compressor.

after the plane dried, I noticed it has some problems,,, the CG was OFF, the
curcuit board was loose, and 1 servo had wound itself around at least 3 times
witht he fishing line. IT took me another half hour to take it apart, readjust
and tighten everything back down. We eventualy ended up using a splitshot
fishing weight on teh antenna to get it to balance correctly,, It appears on
tehlast nose dive, the boom gave way, and it wasnt glued back in the right
place causeing the tail to be light and the cg to be off. ( I didnt do the
repair )

for he rest of the day saterday, My friend used my little red plane wile his
dryed out, and I flew my others.. Come around 6, after dinner, I went back in
the air.. My friend had to leave for a few hours. to get out of the site, ya
have to drive all the way around the giant field.. When he returned, he told
me that every campsite along the field had turned there chairs and were
watching me fly. After my next flight, I picked up the binoculares and took a
look,, sure enough, Ihad at least 40 people watching from the suround
campsites. SO ya know what that ment.. SHow off mode enguaged. I made
sure I overflew everyone doing a trick in front of very campsite as I did my
curcuits around the field.

http://kenohki.rchomepage.com/flight%20field.jpg

Come sunday morning, my nephew was droped off. We had a new Estes Jet
for him to play with, Unfortunetly, it suffered from a defective rudder mid
maiden and also wound up in the river ;( I dryed it out and messed with it off
and on for a few hours but finaly gave up and returned it to its box to go
back to the store.

But all and all it was a godo weekend. I must have flown 40 or 50 sorties with
my variouse planes, and everything came back in the condition it left teh
house in ;)

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Great pics, sorry I havent written in a while whats the latest with you, I have been getting the itch to get an ABC next. I got a bit tired of trying to get that SS up in the air. It seems like I break a prop on each attempt so I have not even tried in a while. Most places that have grass the grass is too tall to take off in but concrete is too hard to crash on so broken props and 2 seconds of correction time are all I have gotten so far. I have broken 4 props so far and ot had even 30 sec of flying. Making me miss the days of my red firebird. I do feel like i have not given it that serious efort ( i.e. taking five props to the fiield and searching to all end for the perfect spot ) I almost feel like if I could get 2 minutes under my belt it would be a breeze.It is definetely light enough now, I get off the grround in about 10 to 15 ft which should be about right considering my 2 12" brass reinforcements. I was looking at the ABC and thinking how I have basically bought one already considering all my repairs to the SS and parts. However as you would say the experience of learning all I have learned with the SS.... "Priceless". So whats up with you, tell me something about a plane that is flying. Haah! Hope things are going well talk to ya soon!

[wrenwright]

A buddy of mine flys an Aerobird Extreme and is using GP 3300's instead of the 1700mah batteries that came with it. He gets much longer flight times and says that the extra weight from the heavier 3300mah cells actually helps in the wind and makes the plane dive faster. His favorite trick is to come in a dive and pull up at the last moment and shoot straight up, or to do a low pass at full speed. All in all, a fun plane.