longer aerobird challenger flying time

[Wingtips24]

Wrenwright,

Wow thats awesome, I have only seen the Aerobird Extreme and a big bird it is. I kinda want to get an ABC now. I feel the need to go ARF again as a always ready to fly plane as I crash the ones theat require a bit more love and care. I seem to have to take my SS home on every crash where my hobbyzone plane a crash was only a brief plane retreval and dust off then toss it up again. I still think I need that right now. How long you been flyin?

[Ken-Ohki]

I find it increadably hard to believe you havent gotten your SS to fly proper yet. I still suspect the toy electronics you put in it as the reason. I think you are the first person I ever heard of who bought a SS and it didnt fly.

Anyway, Ive been out flying almost every night.. My E-starter has been getting most of the airtime lately, but they all have been catching some air. In fact, I expect one of my student pilots to arive here anytime looking to go fly the SS he just got a few weeks ago.

Still be nice to see some pictures of the failed SS and how it was setup.



Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken

You know I have 2 more theorys to my air time problems. I cut a notch into the tail that allows the flap to extend fully which maybe giving a newbee like me too much to plat with. I think I need to restrict my steering ability. What tipically happens is that the plane takes off too steep then plunges into the groung breaking the prop. I moved the weight forward but it still seems to nose up. I mus have to move it even further. Not getting muc aitime to figure it out. How can I get my pictires to yo so you can look at them. Also I did do a test glide and just tossed the plane onto the grass..almost the longest flight to date. It just floated back down. I do think that the extra turning and lack of getting a few minutes in the air is adding to the delay but never fear I am determined. She will fly! I am going to just put the weight rediculously foward so that I can at leas have a problem the other way. I bet that's it. The battery is currently about 5 inches from the nose so well see. One day it''ll fly I know it will. :p

[Ken-Ohki]

you should have a private messgae from me containing my EMail addy. You can send pix there.

If your have your control surfaces set to max movement, that could be a bit of the problem, My latest student found it very difficult to handle his new SS on max throws. In the past, on my planes he has always had the duel rate turned on so only had about 40% of the movement.


I am asuming, by your description, the plane rolls down the runway, you pull back, it goes straight up, stalls then falls... If this is teh case, I would say you are pulling back to hard, it truly only take a little elivator to get it up. Now if it goes up over backwords on liftoff, that is a sure sign of a cg that is to far backwords...

Moving he battery forward cant hurt, Remember, I told you awile back its much better to be nose heavy then tail heavy.

Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Just reading over the post from a while back just purchased a Aerobird challenger. Will be here Monday or Tuuesday. I was looking in the forums to find the mods that folks have done so I can purchase the stuff in advance. Gonna want to fly soon after I get it I'm sure. Anyway how have you been. Oh and I did finally get that SS in the air. Short flights but it flew. Needs a few parts but in the meantime I saw a good deal on the aerobird so she's commin home. If you get this hit me back.

<Wingtips24>

[Ken-Ohki]

Ken,

Just reading over the post from a while back just purchased a Aerobird challenger. Will be here Monday or Tuuesday. I was looking in the forums to find the mods that folks have done so I can purchase the stuff in advance. Gonna want to fly soon after I get it I'm sure. Anyway how have you been. Oh and I did finally get that SS in the air. Short flights but it flew. Needs a few parts but in the meantime I saw a good deal on the aerobird so she's commin home. If you get this hit me back.

Julian <Wingtips24>



yeah, Im still around.. Glad to see you finaly got teh SS in the air. I am also certain you will love the ABC.

I do a few things to all ABC's that cross my workbench.

1 with the power on, and the radio trims centered ( radio on of course ) I look inside the plane at teh servos and make sure they are cenered. if they are not centered, wich they often arent, the plane will not move its surfaces 100 in sync. If they arent, You have to remove the board, readjust then reasemble. be careful not to loose the control lines down the tube, they are a pain to reinstall if they get pulled in.

2 Paint the prop or color it with a bright color. and using a drop of epoxy on the tip of teh shaft,, reinstall it. ( color helps you find it, glue helps prevent it from comming off.

3 Mark on the BODY of the plane, near the wing, where its center of gravity is. I do not put it on the wing becuse wings come and go, and also change weight with repairs. This helps as a refurence point later in life. Using diferent batterys, a repaired wing, Nose in crashes can all change you CG and affect flgiht.

4 Using Sott mailing tape ( specificaly scott mailing tape ) I apply some strips to the underside, and the leading and trailing edges of the wing. I start with a 18 inch or so strip wraped over the trailing edge. Half on top half on bottom. Next, using full length strips of tape, and starting near the trailing edge. Press the wing flat on a table top,( bottom facing up ) and carefully apply the tape, then another and another barely overlaping each other as you work your way forward. Finaly, a wrap over the leading edge about 3 foot long.

4 I drive a toothpick through the Vtail and secure it with a drop or 2 of epoxy. This toothpick reinforces the Vtail and helps it keep its shape and proper angle wile in the air. like this \-/ . it is important that you make sure the tail is centered and so called square to the plane.

5 I install the tail wheel permanantly, weather I use the landing gear or not. ( I hardly ever use the front gear ) I feel this protects the plastic nuts that adjust and hold on the tail.

6 I make sure enough rubber bands are used to secure the wing, In my opinion, 4 on each side then 1 crossed each way in a X. This prevents the wing from shifting in a rough landing and prevents it from moving wile in flight

Have fun with it, I am off for a few days to go visit my girl, so see yas when I get back


Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them too, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

I read your post thanks for the mods will do as soon as it arrives. I wanted to know if you do that motor mount mod. Also how do you go about finding the center of gravity. I understand that you want to see where the weight becomes equal but with the shape of these type planes hpw do you go about doing it. Do you install the bttery when you do the CG test. My thought from your email is no but I wanted to be sure. The scott mailing tape are you referring to is that scott packing tape or do I need to hunt for scott brand "Mailing" Tape. I had a question about the 8.4volt pack and the 7.2. I am correct in saying that the 8.4 makes it go faster right not necessarily longer? Other than that I will do my checks and stuff and be ready to go. I am so excited I can't wait. I have been eyeballin and reading about this thing for some time. Do you have any charging tips for my batteries for the first time or subsequent charges? I think I pretty much messed up all the ones I have and i would like to keep these in good order if possible.


Oh yea post edit - Did you ever mess with the original control horns (glue/replace/adjust) or did you find that they were fine. And do you need to break in the motor?
Thanks again

[Ken-Ohki]

Personaly, I have not done the motor mount Mod. Ive been fortunate with the ABC and rarely have crashed nose in. (note I said rarely not never ) Several of my friends however have. SO far only 1 of 6 birds have suffered from the motor punch in syndrom the reinforcement attempt to protect you from. In my Opinion, the motor mount mod is more of a repair when its needed thing. I feel doing the mod before it is needed risks dammaging the fusilage, making repair harder in the future. But that is just my opinion there.

As far as the center of gravity. With the battery installed. simply use your finger tips under the wing , find where the plane will ballance, and sit level. YOU must do this with the battery in on this modle. Some, like the SS, where you can mount the battery wherever you like, can be balanced without, then mount the batery on the cg line, That is not the case with the ABC. Personaly, I found the ABC nose heavey on the 7 cell pack, and had to do the cut the foam mod to allow the battery to sit closer to the CG to allow for its extra weight. SO having a good CG location stock, allowed me to rebalance it.

Specificaly "Scott Mailing Tape" So YES, go look for that exact thing. Of course other tape will naturaly work with varied results. Ive used several. Packing tape I have found to be thicker ( heavier ) and not dosent have the holding or staying power. I am sure there are other good tapes out there, But That one is my prefurance, and recomendation. On a sidenote here. You can get a cheap can of spray adheasive almost anywhere. ( 4 bucks gernaric, no need to spend 9 bucks on 3m ) Coat the area to be taped with a light spray, let it become tacky ( 20 min ) then tape. I have yet to see tape come up after applying it like that.

The 7 cell pack will make it faster, It will also let it fly with a bit more control in the wind, it will also make your landings a little hotter as well as shorten your motor life. I used my 6 cell pack almost exclusivly with good results for the 1/2 year or so, then when the motor started to show loss of power ( due to use ) I started using the 7 cell packs.. Now, my motor is just about shot, but still flys after more then a year of hard use.

When I first got mine, I had to adjust the control horns to make them sit right at neutral control. SHortly there after, I noticed the servo control horns werent centered on the motherboard inside the plane. so, after adjusting the horns. the tail horns had to be readjusted. after that, I noticed the plane handled better. Also, I strongly recomend using the lowest holes available right from the start. I also generaly recomend going straight to pro mode as well. Later on I ended up drilling holes even lower on the horns to get more movement. (Not something I recomend from the begining) I have seen a few come loose and even off during flgiht, I havent had that problem, but some friends have, we usualy just apply a drop of epoxy on the top around the horn, During assembly of a new tail, both top and bottom get a drop of epoxy.

I Did Not break in my ABC motor, Nore do I bother to break in any "cheap" brushed motor. There is a resonable amount of evidence to support bettter preformance and longer life if you do break it in. , It just isnt something I do. Not worth my time in most instances.

Now on to batterys and charging.

The peak charger that comes with the ABC isnt a bad one. I and my group have had good luck with them. They are not however, amongst the best available. The ABC comes with a charger that will do 1.2 amps. For peak battery life and preformance, you should never ever excede 1 c charge or .9 amps for the stock 900 mah pack. Charging at 1.2 is around 1.5 C. althought its concidered industry standart accepted practice to charge over 1 C, you must keep in mind the people that are telling you that are the ones who sell batterys. You can charge at any rate you want. But when you are talking best life and most efficiency, you are talking slow charge, 1C or below.
Strictly speaking,, taking any rechargable below 80% or so does more dammage then taking it down to 90% twice ( basicaly ) So the lower you take it, ( discharge wize ) the less life and capasity it will have over time. So what am I trying to say?? Im saying taking long full flights does more dammage then taking shorter ones where you dont discharge the pack so much. You can stretch a ABC out to 20 minutes if your good with it, However,, Doing that isnt good for the batterys. they will last much longer on 10 minutes or less per flight. In my opinion, and strictly speaking, If you want more flight itme, buy more batteries, and good chargers.

Guess Ive covered your questions. and for those reading along, remember These are personal opinions Of mine based on what I have discoverd. You milage may vary ;)

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them too, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

It's here It's here It's here...... I got my Aerobird last night. I was so excited to pick it up after work from UPS. I must say it was much brighter orange than I imagined.Thanks for all your answers. One question about charging will it overcharge if it remains plugged in after the light goes solid? Okay the list of mods and how I did them. I tried to do these to the best of your instructions that I understood. Also keep in mind I got your latest post afer my mods but I think all is still pretty good.

1. Motor mount- I did the plastic tie mount mod I did mine with very small slits that I cut into the plastic righ behind the motor, jyst big enough and wide enough for the ties. I also go some really thin ties. I put the tie in careful to make sure I did not get the capacitors caught up in it amd zipped it a few clicks past fitted.


2. Motor Mount - I did two types of motor mounts this is the second. I removed the little metal metal guard they had and replaced it with an idea that caught my eye in the moment. I have a bunch of these fiber board key rings and they are super thin but strong like carbon fiber. Well not that strong but very strong. I cut it to shape with the needle nose cutting part and drilled holes and after some doing I got the screws back in. Looks good if I may say so myself.

3. Wing -Then came the wing. I must say once I got the tape cut I instantly realized that this task was goiong to be more difficult than I originally thought being that I only had 2 hands and needed 4. After some effort I finally loaded the wing and added stripes of tape though I can't say it was exactly as you said. I taped the leading edges the top bottom and I also added a 2 ft carbon fiber bar on the top of the wing. I must say when I was done it was pretty stiff so I think it came out okay.
I also added 2 inch pieces of carbon fiber rods where the the ruber bands cross the wing. The rubber bands now rest on this cross bard rather than the wing. One bar is one the leading edge and one on the training edge. I think that will help to spead out the weight load area and help to keep the wing from folding by the rubber bands. After I put two layers of packing tape on the cross bars I went over it in a design with electrical tape.

4. Tail mods - I used another small piece of Carbon fiber to use as the toothpick you told me about. I used 3 drops of 5 minute epoxy on each side. I also put a small piece of electrical tape around the antenea where it connects to the fuse. I have had problems with them getting ripped out of the fuse and this helped with 2 of my other planes. I also taped the leading edge.

5. Canopy mod - I have always hated that the canopy seems to think my battery is a parachute pack fit to be ejected so I added a 2nd higher strength rubberband to the hook and now I have to put a bit of muscle to get it open. It's easy to open but it has a lot more resistance. I was happy bout that mode. I think it would be hard for the batt to come out now.

6. Next I stole the cushy nose off my Firebird Scout and-( bTW the next line of Aerobird should have this scout nose) after some cuts to make it fit I fit it over the Aerobird nose and electrical taped it on. It now has a really cushy nose. I am sure I will need it. I know it sounds like I went crazy but I was trying to be careful to keep the weight downs now that have learned from some past mistakes.

The only other things I did were cosmedic. I added a small bit of electrical tape (Black) to the wing and tale feather tips and a bit of permanent black marker for details and she was good to go. No name yet but I'll come up with one. The only thing I will do now is add a drop of epoxy to the horns. I realized today I forgot to do that. I love the sensitivity of the throttle and the elevator. It is smooth and not jerky. I must admit I was like oh no when I realized that I had to re-learn to fly since I would naturally want down to make the plane go down and up to be up and I can't change them. All I envisioned was a crash when I get nervous and I am too low to the ground and push up and it goes down into the Abyss of dirt and shame. Made me want to try to find the FMS Aerobird download to practice first. I have a huge park field picked out and I cannot wait to give it a go.

Not going to use the landing gear right now so no modes there. It seemed a bit flimsy so I will have to think of some possible mods. Uh ohhh here comes the fishing string again. All in all It was late when I went to bed but I was happy. Now I just gotta get home with enough daylight to give it a try. I saw what you wrot about changing the control horns and I must say that freaked me out consdering I never totally got the hang of the SS with low control surfaces but that of course could have been for several other reasons. Well I am going to try everyday this week if I can make it but it will probably be Saturday befor I get a chance if the weathers good. Glad it can take a bit more wind. Well you will be one of the first to know how it goes. Thanks again.

[Wingtips24]

Alright here is the play by play action of the first flights. I waited a day after I did all my mods to see if I noticed anything that I felt that I should do more to. One thing extra that I added after the first flight was a canopy mod in which I took 2 blue plastic ties and made hinges for the canopy to keep the thing from breaking off because of the strength of the rubber bands I installed to keep the canopy down. I also added a piece of foam to the battery box so that the battery fit more snug. Okay on to the first flights.

Must start with that age old confession. It was probably a bit more windy than it should have been for a first flight on a new plane. Buuutttt I went any way. I would say it was about 6-9 mph winds. I know I know ..I waited for what was a lull in the wind and threw it trying to remember everything I have read and practiced. It was wobbly at first but then smoothed out and I did a few circles and longer straight runs and then I brought it in and slowed down. All in all it was up for abot 6 minutes. Fortunately I was in the wind and it slowed it down and almost landed it like a helicopter for me. I promtly grabed my plane and left the field before I messed up. So the first flight was great. It was very different then the two chans I have been flying. I really had to work to keep it level and smooth especially in turns. I came back later that day and went for another try. This time ( again I confess ) the wind was probably 8-11mph now but I felt like maybe I could do it. Har Har! I threw it and immediatly noticed I was having even more trouble keeping it under control. I was trying to gain altitude because I know I could make more mistakes higher up. About 20 ft up I was trying to turn but the nose was to low and my turn perhaps too steep so I smacked the ground. I ran over and looked at it. All was okay. I thought wow that was cool. So at this point I learned my lesson and packed it up.......no... oh sorry thats what I SHOULD HAVE DONE!... I on the otherhand dusted it off and went for another round of "lets wreck a plane" since I didn't get the job done my first round. This time same scenario as last time but I did get the altitude this time but again in turning the nose droped and forced my turn too steep. This time it dissapeared down a hill. I saw all but the last 4 ft over the hill. When I got to the plane at first it looked fine but then I realized the wing was bent, It bent right where my carbon fiber bar stopped about 6 inches from the tip. I also had to locate the prop. Now I went home.

When I got home I decided to run a bar of Carbon fiber the length of the wing. Went back out the next day ( less wind but some. Ended up flying twice into trees before it got too dark. These were shorter 1 minute flights. Finally went Sunday morning ( almost no wind )and when I went to throw it and it just went into the ground. Tried again same thing. Finally I looked at it and realized the fuse had come loose and I could rotate the carbon fuse. I confirmed when I got home I could see the glue break. I kept wondering why they glued it in the first place. Anyway all in all the plane visually and other than fixing the fuse is in great shape. I was impressed with the durability but I also realized this is a new animal and though I did get the hang of it ....sort of it's gonna take some practice. I also busted a prop when I flew into the tree. Suprisingly I got no front edge wing damage what so ever other than the bend mark. The trailing edge got one clip but that is fixable with a small piece of packing tape. Well thats it for now. I am going to repair tonight but I am curious if you have ever had the fuse break issue or have repaired that before. I was a bit concerned with how to get it leveled out correctly. I realized after the fuse break that I would from now on mark my planes so if the break I wil know what the true form was. Hit me back when you get a chance.

[Ken-Ohki]

Sounds like you had fun anyway hehehe

if you are gonna run reinforcement rods in tehwing., You have to take them out at least half way down the wing. you just cant reinforce the middle, You need to reinforce about 70% of it. It might not have broken if it were allowed to flex as it would have naturaly. But in any event a ABC wing is a Easy repair Job, You should see some of the ones I have tucked away in my box. a little tape, a little gorilla glue, they as good as new, and in my opinion, stronger.

You said something that blew my mind,, You said you expect your plane to go down when you down stick and up when you up stick? That is not the recomended way to fly/learn and might be key to your prior SS problems. down or pulling back should make it go up. pushing forward, or up should be down.


as far as the boom breaking free, It is a common issue. I fix it with a small hose clamp around the outside of the fusilage, It tightens down nicely. Keep in mind you need to make sure you have the booms lenght is right as well as putting it back so the tail is square. In to far and it will be nose heavy, back to far, tail heavy.

I noticed you made no mention of triming the tail after the first flight. If the plane flew level around 80% throttle, no adjustment is neccisairy, nit if it wants to climb or dive by itself a adjustment is required. I did not go into that. Figured the ABC instruction manual did that. but by the way you describe the nose droping so much in flight, leads me to beleive a adjustment might be in order, ( tighten front screw on the tail to give it less lift ) If it tries to climb constantly, the rear screw needs tightning.


Anyway, Hooe you have a blast with it, Its Been to dam cold to fly here for the last 2 weeks. Mind you not to cold for me, Too cold for my lipo packs.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them Too, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[aeajr]

When I got home I decided to run a bar of Carbon fiber the length of the wing. Went back out the next day ( less wind but some. Ended up flying twice into trees before it got too dark. These were shorter 1 minute flights. Finally went Sunday morning ( almost no wind )and when I went to throw it and it just went into the ground. Tried again same thing. Finally I looked at it and realized the fuse had come loose and I could rotate the carbon fuse. I confirmed when I got home I could see the glue break. I kept wondering why they glued it in the first place. Anyway all in all the plane visually and other than fixing the fuse is in great shape. I was impressed with the durability but I also realized this is a new animal and though I did get the hang of it ....sort of it's gonna take some practice. I also busted a prop when I flew into the tree. Suprisingly I got no front edge wing damage what so ever other than the bend mark. The trailing edge got one clip but that is fixable with a small piece of packing tape. Well thats it for now. I am going to repair tonight but I am curious if you have ever had the fuse break issue or have repaired that before. I was a bit concerned with how to get it leveled out correctly. I realized after the fuse break that I would from now on mark my planes so if the break I wil know what the true form was. Hit me back when you get a chance.

Couple of questions:

This carbon rod you are putting on the wing. Is this on the top or the bottom of the wing. If it is on top, and is more than 1/32 thick and not sunk into the wing, you are changing the airfoil of the wing enough that it may be causing you flight problems. Have you tried flying it with the wing the way the mfg intended it to be?

It is possible that you have hurt the lift character of the wing and it is stalling. I can't say for sure, I am speculating, based on your comments about how the plane is flying.

As far as some general tips on the plane, here are the main ones I suggest to people. Many of these appear to be in the thread already, but they may bear repeating here.

I have been flying my original Aerobird since March 2003. I added an Aerobird
Challenger a few months ago. Between them I have over 300 flights. I love
them both!

Today my fleet consists of 2 Aerobirds, 3 other electrics, 7 thermal
duration sailplanes, two discus launched gliders and three slope gliders.

I recently added lights to the original Aerobird for night flight. That was
weird. It was like flying a ghost. You can't see the plane, only the lights.
They now have a night module for the challenger. I have that too.

I have pounded the poor Aerobird plane into the ground, destroyed three wings,
and two tails. I had to build a new motor mount because I destroyed that too.
All this, and the plane flies great, but it has taken a real beating. That is
what makes it such a great three channel beginner plane. Along the way I have
had to solve many problems because I was so reckless with it while I was
learning to fly it. So, I pass on what I have learned.

First - RTFM - If you lost your manual, you can download it here:
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Products/Detail.aspx?ProductID=HBZ3500#manuals

Respect Wind

This plane can definitely fly in 10-12 mph winds and I have flown it in 18 mph winds, clocked. However wait till you have
mastered it. Most of my crashes came from flying in too much wind before I was
ready. Make your early flights in under 5 mph winds.

Always launch into the wind and land into the wind. And, fly with the wind
blowing toward you so the wind will not carry your plane away, it will tend to
bring it to you.

Motor Mount

This is the first thing you should do. Before you take a hard nose hit,
reinforce the motor mount. I will not elaborate here, visit this thread to
find the information. It contains advice from other pilots and what I finally
did to reinforce the mount. You should do this before you need it.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110532&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
This thread was posted by someone did an excellent job using photos to show
how to do the motor mount modification. I encourage you to make this
modification.
http://www.rc-forums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1173

Here are also some shots of the control board out of the plane which can be
helpful.
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b325c2c38435


Plane Does Not Fly Straight - what could cause this?

Assuming you have not displaced the motor, and you are having
problems with the plane not flying straight, check the following:

a) is the wing crooked or too damaged - try a new wing.

b) Check the trim adjustments. They may have been moved from center. Set
them to center and make all adjustments assuming you will fly with the trim
set in the center.

c) Check the tail. The foam is attached to the center plastic brace by small
pieces that punch through the foam. These can loosen up and the tail fin can
move slightly away from the plastic brace in the air which can cause the plane
to turn.

Tape or glue the tail fins to the center plastic brace. Also, look for creases
in the foam. If there is a weak spot, the tail will flex causing the plane to
turn. mine was creased at the
meeting point where the plastic support meets the tail. Looked fine on the
ground, but it was flexing in the air causing a hard right turn leading to
crashes. Replace the tail.

d) Make sure the moveable surfaces are even with the fixed surfaces on the
tail when the stick is centered and the trim levers are centered. You MUST
check this with the transmitter on and the battery attached. If they are not
even, adjust them with the screws on the control horns. The procedure is in
the manual. RTFM

Note, there is a tiny Phillips head screw on the back of the control horn on
the tail. Tighten it or the spool could unwind while the plane is in the
air, causing a crash. (Guess how I know this!)

e) Check to see that the boom is solidly attached at the body. If this comes
loose, it can move around while the plane is flying causing all kinds of
problems. It can also
twist so that the tail is no longer aligned.

If you look at where the boom is attached inside there is a pinched area. I
drilled a small hole through the top of that area and through the boom. Then
I put a 4" nylon tie through to help secure the boom. I also put packing tape
around the boom and the back of the body where the boom exits. Between the
two, the boom is well secured.

The Porpoise

When you apply power the plane starts to climb then noses up, then the nose
drops and it does it all over again. This is called a stall. The problem is
that the tail needs to be trimmed, the front is too low or the back is too
high. This causes an up elevator effect. Adjust the orange screws on the
tail. The procedure is in your instruction book. RTFM

Center of Gravity

If you are using a 7 cell battery, you will get a faster plane and better
climb, however you will also shift the center of gravity forward slightly.
If you are an aggressive, full throttle flyer, you probably won't
notice. If you are more of a half throttle cruiser, like me, you will find
the plane needs up trim all the time. Here is how you fix it.


Longer flights

Back off on the power. Both the 6 and 7 cell battery will last six to
seven minutes at full power. However, if you back off to half power, your
flights can last 12-15 minutes depending on the wind. You can even
catch thermals with the Aerobird and riding them for long long flights with
the motor off. I have taken it slope soaring as well. Flew great!

If you charged your batteries a few days ago, top them up just before
flying. They lose charge just sitting around.

Neck Strap for the Transmitter

If you look at the high priced Futaba, Hitec and other radios, they have a
place where you can clip a cord so that the radio can hang from a neck strap,
leaving your
hands free to make adjustments on the plane. This is very convenient.

Take a large paper clip and bend up the center piece in the middle to make a
place where you can clip a neck strap to it. Now take some sand paper and
sand a spot in the center of the radio. Epoxy the paperclip to the radio. Use
plenty so you can really embed the clip in the epoxy.

Reinforce the Wing

Got to staples and get some glass reinforced tape. The type that has a cross
pattern is best. Put a piece on either side of trailing edge where the prop
wants to bite the wing if a landing is a little rough. Also centered in the
front 6" on either side of
the body to help resist damage from the rubber bands. The newer wings may
come reinforced but you may wish to do this anyway.

Make sure you have a spare prop, they're cheap. Since the prop is less likely
to cut the reinforced wing, if it hits the wing, it might pop the prop off, or
break it. However normally this does not happen.

If you get a crease or a fold in the wing from a rough landing, this will be a
weak area. The foam is compressed and the wing will tend to fold up under
stress. Tape can not stop this. Take a strip of plastic or wood, about 1/16"
and cut a piece about 1" wide and 30" or longer and reinforce the whole wing.
Attach the support to the wing with
double sided carpet tape, not the foam type, the really thin stuff. Make sure
you center it on the wing so that it does not through the wing out of balance.

To finish off the reinforcement, cover it with clear packing tape. Stretch it
for and aft to create a smooth flow
path for the air passing over the wing. Many planes of similar design, like
the T-Hawk or the Firebird XL have
these strips, or rods on the wings when they are new. It won't fly as well as
a new wing, but it will fly.


Learn to Glide in for a Landing

If you run the battery too long, the speed control will cut the power to the
motor while preserving power for the control surfaces. This is good! If you
learn to land with the power off, if you get caught in the air with no motor,
you will have
no problem landing. Gliding in, even from 500 feet, is my standard way of
landing.

Parts

These planes have a great distribution system. Parts are very readily found
in most hobby stores. However if you can't get what you need, look here:
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Support/


HobbyZoneSports Frequently Asked Questions - Couldn't hurt to look!
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Support/FAQ.aspx

Plane Locator

When I was learning, or today if I fly strong winds, I use one of these on the
plane and one stays in my pocket.
If I put the plane down in very tall grass, or in the woods ( don't ask ) it
can be hard to find. If I am looking for the plane, I click the one in my
hand and the one on the plane answers. If you fly near woods, swamps, tall
grass, etc., get one of these. I mount it under the rubber bands that holds
on the wing. Doesn't seem to hurt the lift much at all.
www.keyringer.com

Summary

Here are a few tips to help you live happily with your Aerobird and
help it survive your poor piloting skills. With a little luck, the plane will
make it through the tough part of your training as you pound it into the
ground trying to learn to fly. Don't give up! Avoid the wind, take your time
and you will get it!

Oh, and RTFM ..... read the friendly manual!!!! :-)
------------------
Best regards
AEAJR
www.lisf.org
www.rcezine.com

[aeajr]

sounds like you may have damaged the wing. Get a new one. Don't modify it. Fly the plane with the wing as it was designed. Then, after you see how it flys with a proper wing, you can try your reinforcements and see if it changes the flight.

FIXING WINGS AND TAILS

Repairing a CREASED wing with packing tape alone
doesn't really work very well. It works better on the tail because it
encounters different forces, but what I am about to explain works MUCH better
on both the wing and tail and is easy to do. It should also apply to the
Xtreme, and all the Firebirds.

A creased taped wing might fly, but at the first real stress, its gonna fold
and you are going to crash. Tape alone has no body or stiffness of its own to
resist a fold since the wing's internal foam is compressed. Net Net, there is
nothing to resist the next fold. You need to stiffen and support the wing.

Here are things I have used for wings and the V tail with pretty good results.

Take a hobby knife or razor blade and open the vinyl covering at the crease or
stressed area

Get the wing set in the proper position, even bend it slightly the other way
to open up the gap.

Fill the folded area with Elmer's white glue or titebond yellow glue. I have
not tried Gorilla Glue, but that might work well. The white and yellow glue
will seep into the foam and bond with it and stiffen it.

Let it partially dry, at least 90 minutes, then fill it again. The first coat
will soak in. The second coat will fill the gap. Let it dry
at least 24 hours, then check it. If it is fully dried, apply a little clear
packing tape to help it resist pulling open.

Another approach I used for large folds, especially center folds is to bond a
thin but somewhat stiff strip piece of wood, like 1/32 ply, to the top of
the wing. A piece about 1 inch wide and at least 1 inch to either side of the
crack should do it. It works but it disrupts the air flow and the wing may
not fly as well, or you might not notice it at all.

I have never had one of these fold. I bond it to the wing with double sided
tape then cover it with clear packing tape allowing the tape to form a smooth
approach to the support rather than tucking it in tight. If it is a center
fold, be sure to center it left and right so you don't unbalance the wing. If
it is on one side or the other you might have to apply a similar piece of wood
to the other side to keep the wing balanced. Flyt it and adjust accordingly.
The bird can handle the weight of a light piece of plastic or wood.

Embedded supports

If you want to get more aggressive, you can cut the covering on a new wing or
a damaged wing, remove or compress some foam and embed the plywood or a dowel
support piece into the wing and glue it into the foam with Elmer's white glue
or Titebond yellow glue. The wing does have to flex a bit. Then tape over
the top to cover it. I have not used this approach but I may try it if I
badly bend a wing.

While Epoxy is strong, it doesn't move with the foam the way Elmer's or
Titebond do so I have seen a tendency for epoxy to pull away from the foam
which weakens the area.

If you look at the Firebird XL wing, or the Aerobird Xtreme, they have a
support rod embedded into it when
you buy it. Other similar planes, like the T-hawk, have these supports in
their wings when they are new. If you do this, I suggest doing this so that
is spans
the body of the plane as many folds happen where the rubber bands attach. Too
often you make a hard off angle landing on one side of the wing but see no
damage to the wing. You think you have a clean wing, but in fact the foam
inside has been weakened. You fly and the wing folds and you say "what
happened?" What happened is 5 hard landings ago you stressed this spot,
compressed the foam enough to weaken it and boom you have a fold.

Give it a try. The key message here is don't depend on tape to keep the
crease from folding again. Tape is good for closing up damage on the front or
rear edges of the wing and for reinforcement of a new wing by the prop area,
but it can't keep a creased wing from folding up again.

[Wingtips24]

aeajr,

I have read all through the aerobird posts that continued for a while. I must say I was like awwwhh man when I saw it had ended. I have read many of your post and looked forward to joining the posts when I finished reading. Glad I got to write a post with you now. I will head out and make some purchases. I myself am a tinkerer and love to find new ways to do things and improve things. I also love to hear of new ways to do something and in this case some brand new things I had not thought of. I got some shopping to do.

Yea it looks like my wing folded into a "J" almost so it was bent and creased in several places thoughout the last 8 inches. It creased in maybe 8 places so I was afraid a new wing was the only way to go. It's hard when the other side looks perfectly fine hAhaha. I also only flew only 4 times on it . One thing you said I had thought about and I am glad you mentioned because I think you are right. I should try to fly it stock, I think some of my "mods" may be doing more harm than good. I think this time I will buy 2 wings. One question I had was when you said fly the wing stock did you mean totally stock as in not tape reinforcements or anything or just don't add any bars and stuff like that.

The other issue that I think it will be a bit tough to fix that tail. I was so thankful when I saw the post you wrote on how to allign the tail when the boom has come loose from the plastic. I will use the tape measure and hopfully get it right. I was thinking that I may be able to get the left/right good but I was worried about how high or low to set it as I know that would be the same as adjusting the two screws. I know they talk about adjusting the screw one turn at a time, made me think there was not a lot of room for error if I get it to low or high. I did look inside the plane past the guts and realized I could see where the glue bond broke. I am thinking of using this broken bond as a marker of where it originally was. Some of the glue broke off on the boom and some stayed on where it was anchored. When I push the tail end of the boom up they come back together for a match. Ken Ohki has helped me out tremendously with my planes and he also suggested a small hose clamp. have you used that. I tried that on my firebird outlaw believe it or not. You should have seen how low to the ground that thing got before it could get some altitude but that was also because it was so small of a plane. I was suprsed it got off the ground at all.

I really like your ideas about wing strengthening. Ken told me to use some gorilla glue. It seems both glues you guys describe seem to have the same characteristics. They fill and strengthen. Never though to try that. I am going to do some experiments with both glues and see what happends. Also do you think I should wait to use a 8.4 volt batt or will it aid in flight. I would think it may help to have the extra power but the weight couldn't be good I would think, is that right? I plan on going today or tomorrow to grab a new wing. Are there any posts going on like the Aerobird one, I would love to get in on that if I could. I apreciated everyone sharing there experiences and knowledge like that. I figere if I can just get it up in the air for a few batteries that will aslo help in my flying to maybe save some of these crashes.

[Wingtips24]

trying to figure out the quotes on this thing.. sorry

[Wingtips24]

Okay Got it

Couple of questions:

This carbon rod you are putting on the wing. Is this on the top or the bottom of the wing. If it is on top, and is more than 1/32 thick and not sunk into the wing, you are changing the airfoil of the wing enough that it may be causing you flight problems. Have you tried flying it with the wing the way the mfg intended it to be?

www.lisf.org
www.rcezine.com

You also asked me about the carbon fiber rod I used it is a hollow tube about 3 mm round. I placed it over the top of the wing and taped over it to smoth the air flow out. It is not sunk into the wing.

[aeajr]

I would strongly recommend you try flying without it. You may have created a spoiler there. We use them in sailplanes to kill the lift of the wing when we want to land.

[Wingtips24]

aeajr,

I picked up a new wing today so I will give that a shot. Thanks again Ill let you know how it goes

[aeajr]

aeajr,

One thing you said I had thought about and I am glad you mentioned because I think you are right. I should try to fly it stock, I think some of my "mods" may be doing more harm than good. I think this time I will buy 2 wings. One question I had was when you said fly the wing stock did you mean totally stock as in not tape reinforcements or anything or just don't add any bars and stuff like that.



One piece of tape along the leading edge where the rubber bands cross aobut 2 inches each side of center is optional. Get it smooth.

One piece along the rear edge, about 7" long, centered on the wing to protect the area that the prop likes to bite. GET IT SMOOTH. Wrap it around the edge so half is above and half is below.

Nohting else on the wing, unless you are into extreme aerobatics. The wing needs to flex. The only time I add any reinforcement is if there is a crease, as described above, then it has to be thin so it can flex with the wing while it supports the crease.

I find this to be the best tape.
http://www.officedepot.com/txtSearchDD2.do?navType=navText&level=FM&id=171926

Any glass reinforced tape is OK for this.

Clear packing tape for everything else.

[aeajr]

aeajr,


The other issue that I think it will be a bit tough to fix that tail. I was so thankful when I saw the post you wrote on how to allign the tail when the boom has come loose from the plastic. I will use the tape measure and hopfully get it right. I was thinking that I may be able to get the left/right good but I was worried about how high or low to set it as I know that would be the same as adjusting the two screws. .

Boom MUST be level with the body. Look at my photo. That was a boom that broke lose. If your boom has broken lose you MUST get it locked into the fuse so that it comes out straight and can not move up or down. MUST or it will NEVER fly right again.

If it is lose enough to flop up and down, then do the tie wrap reinforcement I suggest above. Again, you can see it in my photo.

Lock it in. Use the tape to hold it temp and fly it. If you have a large enough area, just fly straight out. If it wants to turn, you need to rotate the tail.

Land, remove tape and rotate the boom till you get the tail straight left and right. retape and fly it again. This may take 5-10 flights till you have it just right.

Then fly it high and make sure it turns nicely left and right.

Be sure you check/adjust the tail surfaces, with the plane and the radio turned on, before each flight and be sure your trims are centered BEFORE you adjust your tail surfaces.

The time you spend now making sure sure that boom is level and the tail is even left and right will determine if your plane ever flies right again. Don't rush it!

Once you have it right, tape it in place. Then do the drill and tie wrap on the boom.

[aeajr]

aeajr,

Also do you think I should wait to use a 8.4 volt batt or will it aid in flight. I would think it may help to have the extra power but the weight couldn't be good I would think, is that right? I plan on going today or tomorrow to grab a new wing. Are there any posts going on like the Aerobird one, I would love to get in on that if I could. I apreciated everyone sharing there experiences and knowledge like that. I figere if I can just get it up in the air for a few batteries that will aslo help in my flying to maybe save some of these crashes.

The plane flies fine on the 6 cell. I have three of them and use them all the time. My 7 Cell just makes it faster. New pilots don't need the speed. The extra weight and power help in the wind, but NEW PILOTS SHOULD NOT BE FLYING IN WING UNLESS THEY WANT TO CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait for calm air to do your trim flights. Otherwise you have no idea how the plane is actually flying.

Wait for calm air to learn to fly it, otherwise you are just fighting wind, not flying the plane.

If you were learning to drive a boat, would you want to do it in a storm? If you were learning to drive a car, would you do it on snow and ice?

Under 5 MPH for leaning. When you can land it smoothly 10 times in a row, then you can think about 7 mph and build it up slowly to give yourself the best chance of success.

I can fly the plane in 15 mph winds, get it 400 feet in the air and 100 feet down wind, then turn the motor off an glide to a landing at my feet with no trouble. YOU CAN'T, so don't try. When you have 50 solid flights you can try stuff like that.

For training, speed is your enemy! You have to think faster, react faster and you run out of room faster. Climb at full power, then, when you are above tree height, come back to about 3/4 and continue to climb. When you are about double tree height, come back to half and just cruise around. Get to know the plane. Feel the turns. When to give it stick. How much, when to release. Most of hte time you should leave the stick alone.

When you learned to drive a car, did you do right to the expressway or did you drive on slower roads to give you self a chance to think and make a mistake and have time to recover.


The plane will fly itself if you just stop "bothering" it. When I am triaining new pilots I get them going straight at half throttle, then make them take their right hand off the radio and just watch where the plane goes. It flies very well by itself.

I make them fly it with the motor off a lot. The response will be sluggish, but you see how the plane flies. Lean to glide and you will never be upset if you lose the battery because you flew too long. My plane glides about 50% of the time while I look for thermals to ride. 10-30 minute fights with the motor off. Lots of fun.


When you are ready to land, come to 1/4 throttle and let it come down slowly. line up into the wind and cut the power and just glide in. It will land itself in calm air if you do it this way. Just keep the wings level with tiny inputs.

[Wingtips24]

I will leave the wing stock then and see how it goes. I also had an outlaw and a scout and a yellow bee as my first planes and I know what you mean by leaving the plane to fly itself. The scout and the Outlaw especially does this well. I think the wind was a major factor in my crashes. I had to fight to keep the plane level. In the back of your mind you know to wait till the wind is calm and everything in you knows the reasoning but sometimes you just go anyway. I think I will be more succesful in more calm winds and leaving the plane alone as you said to fly itself a bit more.

Still really windy right now no flying till it dies down. BTW I had to get a fighterbird wing because the LHS had only bent aerobird wings. I am assumning the wings are the same between those two. I could not see a difference when I compared them. I also got 2 more props and one for my scout. That is my experimental plane. I have done alot to that one in the way of experiments.

Thanks for all the links as I clicked them I remembered the post I read that they came from. I had seen all of them from my reading. From my earlier posts I listed all the mods I made. I coppied them to save you the trouble. I can't wait to give it another shot. Im going to work on it tonight if I et a chance. Where do you fly? I live in Delaware and I have not seen to any folks flying planes so I have learned mainly on my own. A challange but it can be done with a bit of advice and guidence. I was real glad I ran into the forum or I would not have learned much of the little that I know now. He he. Hey if you wanna fly youll make a way.




It's here It's here It's here...... I got my Aerobird last night. I was so excited to pick it up after work from UPS. I must say it was much brighter orange than I imagined.Thanks for all your answers. One question about charging will it overcharge if it remains plugged in after the light goes solid? Okay the list of mods and how I did them. I tried to do these to the best of your instructions that I understood. Also keep in mind I got your latest post afer my mods but I think all is still pretty good.

1. Motor mount- I did the plastic tie mount mod I did mine with very small slits that I cut into the plastic righ behind the motor, jyst big enough and wide enough for the ties. I also go some really thin ties. I put the tie in careful to make sure I did not get the capacitors caught up in it amd zipped it a few clicks past fitted.


2. Motor Mount - I did two types of motor mounts this is the second. I removed the little metal metal guard they had and replaced it with an idea that caught my eye in the moment. I have a bunch of these fiber board key rings and they are super thin but strong like carbon fiber. Well not that strong but very strong. I cut it to shape with the needle nose cutting part and drilled holes and after some doing I got the screws back in. Looks good if I may say so myself.

3. Wing -Then came the wing. I must say once I got the tape cut I instantly realized that this task was goiong to be more difficult than I originally thought being that I only had 2 hands and needed 4. After some effort I finally loaded the wing and added stripes of tape though I can't say it was exactly as you said. I taped the leading edges the top bottom and I also added a 2 ft carbon fiber bar on the top of the wing. I must say when I was done it was pretty stiff so I think it came out okay.
I also added 2 inch pieces of carbon fiber rods where the the ruber bands cross the wing. The rubber bands now rest on this cross bard rather than the wing. One bar is one the leading edge and one on the training edge. I think that will help to spead out the weight load area and help to keep the wing from folding by the rubber bands. After I put two layers of packing tape on the cross bars I went over it in a design with electrical tape.

4. Tail mods - I used another small piece of Carbon fiber to use as the toothpick you told me about. I used 3 drops of 5 minute epoxy on each side. I also put a small piece of electrical tape around the antenea where it connects to the fuse. I have had problems with them getting ripped out of the fuse and this helped with 2 of my other planes. I also taped the leading edge.

5. Canopy mod - I have always hated that the canopy seems to think my battery is a parachute pack fit to be ejected so I added a 2nd higher strength rubberband to the hook and now I have to put a bit of muscle to get it open. It's easy to open but it has a lot more resistance. I was happy bout that mode. I think it would be hard for the batt to come out now.

6. Next I stole the cushy nose off my Firebird Scout and-( bTW the next line of Aerobird should have this scout nose) after some cuts to make it fit I fit it over the Aerobird nose and electrical taped it on. It now has a really cushy nose. I am sure I will need it. I know it sounds like I went crazy but I was trying to be careful to keep the weight downs now that have learned from some past mistakes.

The only other things I did were cosmedic. I added a small bit of electrical tape (Black) to the wing and tale feather tips and a bit of permanent black marker for details and she was good to go. No name yet but I'll come up with one. The only thing I will do now is add a drop of epoxy to the horns. I realized today I forgot to do that. I love the sensitivity of the throttle and the elevator. It is smooth and not jerky. I must admit I was like oh no when I realized that I had to re-learn to fly since I would naturally want down to make the plane go down and up to be up and I can't change them. All I envisioned was a crash when I get nervous and I am too low to the ground and push up and it goes down into the Abyss of dirt and shame. Made me want to try to find the FMS Aerobird download to practice first. I have a huge park field picked out and I cannot wait to give it a go.

Not going to use the landing gear right now so no modes there. It seemed a bit flimsy so I will have to think of some possible mods. Uh ohhh here comes the fishing string again. All in all It was late when I went to bed but I was happy. Now I just gotta get home with enough daylight to give it a try. I saw what you wrot about changing the control horns and I must say that freaked me out consdering I never totally got the hang of the SS with low control surfaces but that of course could have been for several other reasons. Well I am going to try everyday this week if I can make it but it will probably be Saturday befor I get a chance if the weathers good. Glad it can take a bit more wind. Well you will be one of the first to know how it goes. Thanks again.

[aeajr]

The Fighterbird wing should work. It is shorter, around 40 inches as opposed to 42 for the Aerobird. I also think it has a bit less dihedral, so it may not turn as quickly. But it should fly.

[Wingtips24]

Aeajr,

I took the two wings and laid them one on top of the other and they were the same in everyway I could see. The LHS guy did the same thing. Maybe it was mispackaging but they were the same. The commander wing was different and shorter though. I also looked at that one so I went with the Fighterbird one. I'll look again since I still have my aerobird wing. I bet when I get to fly it better I may be able fly it once I know which ways to correct it better. I want to try th ething you said with the glue.

Can you believe I woke up and was working on my plane at 5am this morning just couldnt' stand for it to go another day. When I removed the guts I realized that the boom snapped out of the little holder. I snapped it back in place and put a tie around it. I then put tape around it like you said after I lined it up as best I could. I'll try to test it out this weekedn and make adjustments.

[aeajr]

I was thinking of the commander wing. Have not looked at the fighterbird wing. Good to know that the two wings are the same. Might see one cheaper than the other.

Or, as you said, it may have just been mispackaged.

Thanks for the info.

As for the boom. As you said, you must test fly it. It should comme straight out from the body. If it can droop at all, it will put the plane into a dive. If you have it all the way in, you should not be able to wiggle it up and down and it should not pop out unless you pull it out.

Test is best done over long grass.

Fly it to see if it is rotated exactly right. A little left or right can be compensated, but it is best to get it right. When I change a tail on a plane, I might spend 2 hours tuning to get just the right flight. Here is how I judge

1) Does it launch straight
2) Does there seem to be a bias for left or right turns
3) On a fresh battery, at half throttle, I get it going straight and take my hands off the stick to see if it tends to circle in a fashion other than the wind would predict. To do this you have to cruise with the wind, against the wind then across it both ways.

4) Finally, the glide test. Get it high, in as calm a wind as possible and cut the motor slowly, not suddenly. Let it glide all around till it is tree height. Any tendancy to go one way or the other? No motor influece when you are in a glide, so it is only the alignment of the boom and the tail that is influecing the flight.

Again, during most of these tests, my hands are off the stick so that I don't influence the flight. If it will fly reasonalbly well I just let it find its own path around the sky and watch how it behaves.

When it is right, I lock it in with tape, and then I put the tie wrap through the boom. When doing this for other people, I bring my cordless drill to the field along with a long screwdriver that I can use to hold the antenna and the control lines down so the drill does not hit them.

Give it a try.

[Wingtips24]

I'll definitly give it a shot good thing I have alot of tie wraps. I also made a 1 inch square near the boom to get a good look inside. My eyes were not seeing that the boom snapped up correctly. I saw the glue and thought that it was flush when in fact it was not even flat till I snapped it back in. It's funny I only noticed somthing must be wrong becasue I saw the boom drooping and did not remember it that way when I got it. You and I thought the same thing about the wings but alas they are the same price. I was hoping for a break. Boy I must admit I am not really looking forward to the tuning part of this wing since I am still just trying to fly straight. without crashing. Good thing is I started a post called Delaware Pilots to find som local pilots. Looks like there is a group after all that I may be able to hook up with. Hope to watch some of those guys and see if I can visually see some of what your telling me. You know now that I think about it I bet you could shoot some video demonsrating some of the flight tactics you write about. I know for a someone like me that would be invaluable to watch and maybe hear you talk through a flight describing what you are doing on the sticks as we watch the flight. Some food for thought. maybe you already have something like that :D.

I'll search for some taller grass to fly in I think that was a great idea. I hope to learn on this aerobird then I will get another one. I got mine off ebay for $119 new and shipped. Needless to say I was happy. I know that have been cheaper but that was pretty good since I was planning on $149 plus tax. When I get there what do you recommend as a first sort of acrobatic move to try. I was thinking a loop. That one makes the most sense in my head when I think about actually doing it. I should have my bird ready for flight testing soon.

[aeajr]

The tie wrap for the boom should be a small one, not like the one by the motor.

Just imagine what you would be fixing if the plane had been made of balsa wood.

Toothpicks! :-)

[Wingtips24]

You know when I cut out the panel I should be able to do the whole tie wrap on the inside of the plane so you only see the strip. I'll have to search around for some small tie wraps, I only have those medium ones.

[Wingtips24]

Okay test flight complete, I started another forum for pilots in the area where I live ( Newark Delaware and found out there are a few local flying areas. I went to visit both the ones I heard about. Both places no one was there but that was the spot. I bought my aerobird along just in case the wind was low. I got to the first spot and got out and looked around. I realized that there was 0 wind and I got that evil little feeling of flight. I wasn't thinking I would get the chance. I slapped on the wing tested the conntrols did a few small adjustments and held my breath as I tossed it. Can you believe that thing flew like it was just out of the box. I threw it and it dipped about 2 feet the started to climb even and straight. I pulled back on the stick a littleto make sure it went up and once it got speed it was climbing nice and smooth. I tipped the wing into a slow turn and back towards me and continued to climb. Once I was up pretty high (maybe a few hundred ft) I held there since I knew sometimes it's hard to tell the orientation. I just did lazy circles and lond runs. I let the controls go and watched it continue straight. I could tell at one point it was fighting a small gust of wind but it smoothed itself back out. I cut the motor off and just cruised around. After I was up for about 6 minutes I decided to start playing with the elevator a bit going down. It really gets back down in a hurry so I payed around at about 80 ft before climbing back up top again. At this point I was ready for a loop so I dove the plane down and heard that loud prop sound then pulled up hard and it did most of a loop and leveled out. It was so easy so I did a few more. Each one got better and better. It started getting dark and I was pushing 10 minutes so I brought it down a bit and did some low passes. I finally circled around and realized there was no wind so I just came in straight and slowly lowered the throttle and cut it at the end for a nice belly slide. I could not believe the difference flying in now wind. LESSON LEARNED.....for now anyway...he he. It was great short but it was the longest flight to date so I was happy.

[aeajr]

Wingtips24,

An outstanding report. YOu are now a pilot.

Follow that pattern for your next 10 flights. Become confident and smooth.

Then you can try some wind. 5 mph, then 7, then 10. Make sure you can land with confidence at each speed before you step up.

[Wingtips24]

hey are there any forums that are currently talking about aerobirds, I would live to join one. Aslo thought I would try to locate the aerobird fms downlide. I have FMS but not the aerobird one, any ideas?

[bikerguy]

Is there anyone who is tired of flying their Firebird XL and would want to sell one or more of their 7.2V 900maH battery packs, and preferably lives in the Bay area in California? I have used my battery-pack way too much and I only get 8 minutes of flight as opposed to the 15 minutes of expected time. Please contact me at bikerguy@gmail.com so we can make coordinate the purchase.

Thanks,
bikerguy

[aeajr]

Some good prices for battery packs:
2 for $19
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2563&item=5913370770&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34056&item=5972408289&rd=1

3 1100 mah packs for $26
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40975&item=5770712984&rd=1


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19164&item=5972231913&rd=1

[bikerguy]

thanks for the links

[Wingtips24]

Ken if your still around just wanted to update you on my progress. I got myself an E-Started and set it up on a Himaxx 2025 4200 with a 2200 polyquest pack Hitec 555 and Hitec Flash 5. Phoenix 25 ESC. It's been alot of fun I'm flying aeilerons and all now. I did go head an order another Aerobird body so I have something to fly when I ma not fly the E Starter so it's commin along right nicely. You been flying alot lately what is gettin the most airtime these days?

[aeajr]

I keep my Aerobird in the car all the time. That box that doubles as a protective hanger/case is a great feature that I did not really apprciate when I first got it.

[Wingtips24]

I keep my Aerobird in the car all the time. That box that doubles as a protective hanger/case is a great feature that I did not really apprciate when I first got it.


Good point mine is gone but I will surely keep that in mine. What have you been flying lately?

[aeajr]

Well I fly the ABC often

Zagi 3C Flying Wing slope glider
Spirit 2M Thermal sailplane
Airtronics Legend 3M Thermal Sailplane
My friend's Multiplex Easy Glider
An ElectraJet that was a parkflyer that I turned into a slope glider
Mountain Models Boomer Discus Launched glider

[rutat]

Best Aerobird/Firebird batteries I have are those from CheapBatterypacks.com All in, better pricing than what you get from most places. And no FleaBay shipping ripoff.

[Ken-Ohki]

Ken if your still around just wanted to update you on my progress. I got myself an E-Started and set it up on a Himaxx 2025 4200 with a 2200 polyquest pack Hitec 555 and Hitec Flash 5. Phoenix 25 ESC. It's been alot of fun I'm flying aeilerons and all now. I did go head an order another Aerobird body so I have something to fly when I ma not fly the E Starter so it's commin along right nicely. You been flying alot lately what is gettin the most airtime these days?

Yeah, Im still around, Good to see ya havin fun with your E-Starter.

I have been mostly flying my E-starter with the python 200 brushless and a high discharge 3s lipo. What a powewrhouse hehehe..

I havent flown my ABC since my tail modification gave way and caused a nose in crash from about 60 feet heheheh. I pulled the control horn out of the surface, guess I didnt have it glues as good as I thought I did.

I have also been flying my SS with its No diheadral, aileron wing. ( brushless and Lipo powered of course )

Ken-Ohki

[Wingtips24]

Ken what setup are you running on your Estarter as fr as props. I'm still swapping props to find then best setup for speed and then a setup for power. Today I am gonna try out the 12X8 on the 6.3.3 himax gear. Should give me 42 oz of thrust..Can you say fun??? My aerobird body is in but I need to scrounge a bit o cash to get it. We'll see

[Wingtips24]

Well I fly the ABC often

Zagi 3C Flying Wing slope glider
Spirit 2M Thermal sailplane
Airtronics Legend 3M Thermal Sailplane
My friend's Multiplex Easy Glider
An ElectraJet that was a parkflyer that I turned into a slope glider
Mountain Models Boomer Discus Launched glider


Aeajr,

I know at sme point I'd like to try one of those 2 meter sail planes. I have always been facinated with them. Whats the main difference between a
sailplane
Glider
Slope glider
I hear alot about them and I imagine the glider does not have a motor just controls where a sailplane maybe would but not too sure exactly. Can youshed some light?

[Ken-Ohki]

Ken what setup are you running on your Estarter as fr as props. I'm still swapping props to find then best setup for speed and then a setup for power. Today I am gonna try out the 12X8 on the 6.3.3 himax gear. Should give me 42 oz of thrust..Can you say fun??? My aerobird body is in but I need to scrounge a bit o cash to get it. We'll see

Well, basicaly, my prop selection should have little variance on you selection, We are using 2 different motors and 2 different power sources, as well as 2 different overall planes ( meaning weight and control setup )

I use the python200 on my E-Starter. It draws up to 30 amps and produces up tp 32oz of thrust acording to spec, of course depending what I use for a prop and the batt voltage. Curently,, I find that a APC 10x4.7 prop and a 3 cell lipo gives me increadable unlimeted vertical. and a overall speed of about 30mph. This plane flys regularly in 20+mph winds on the coast with ease. My amp meter said something like 17 amps with this setup, But I dont trust that reading, ( could be wrong on that reading, it was some time ago i measured it ) I think my amp meter is crap and havent been able to afford a new one yet, But, I do know the plane is just over 20 oz AUW, and based on its Punchout ability I bet its delivering about 30 oz. of thrust. ( literaly a rocket right out of your hand straight up) I have beenthinking of proping for more speed, just to see how fast it can be , but I really like the actual power it curently has, Power is more usefull then speed when flying in tight locations.

Ken-Ohki

[Wingtips24]

Ken are you using the 10X4.7 (thin )or regular prop I ordered sme of those that were on back order a while ago. Still waiting ont them should be in soon

[Wingtips24]

Nevermind only comes in slowfly

[aeajr]

Aeajr,

I know at sme point I'd like to try one of those 2 meter sail planes. I have always been facinated with them. Whats the main difference between a
sailplane
Glider
Slope glider
I hear alot about them and I imagine the glider does not have a motor just controls where a sailplane maybe would but not too sure exactly. Can youshed some light?


The difference between a sailplane and a glider is one of split hairs.

A sailplane is purpose built to ride on the lift generated by convection currents; thermals; warm rising air. These are also refered to as thermal duration sailplanes or gliders.

A glider is a plane that travels through air unpowered. So your F15 is a glider when you turn the engines off, in a manner of speaking.

In practical use sailplane and glider are used interchangeably.

A slope glider is a plane that is made for slope soaring. It rides the lift that is generaged when wind strikes a hill side and is forced to turn up to go over the hill. This creates a large pressure zone in front of the hill which we see as lift.

Most TD sailplanes can be flown on the slope if the wind is not too strong. However not all slope planes make good TD saiplanes.

Most TD planes spend their time moving through the air fairly slowly. When they hit lift, they circle into it, like riding the edge of a tornado. As the air rises it carries the plane up. The best thermal days have little or no wind, plenty of sun and low humidity. TD Sailplanes have to typically deal with light lift and wind penetration but usually the force of the wind is seen differently.

From personal experience, when the wind is getting kind of strong for TD sailplanes, it is just starting to get good for slope planes.

I have flown TD sailplanes in 20 mph winds, but it is not ideal and it is very hard to find and hold a thermal in that kind of wind. Under 10 mph is really more suited for hunting thermals.

Slope planes need the wind. Many need at least 10 mph of wind in order to fly, and more is better. Many slope planes are rated for winds in excess of 40 mph. You will see photos of slope pilots wearing goggles to shield their eyes from the strong winds. My first slope flight it was 7 degrees F and 25 mph winds. I froze!

Slope planes have to deal with lift from diverted wind, and must have good wind penetration. By definition, slope planes are flying in wind so penetration is very important.

I am not a designer of planes so I can't take it beyond that.

I have flown slope gliders and TD sailplanes in the 1.3M to 3M range and have a 3.6M plane in the works.

Anything I can do to help you get started, just let me know. I have written a number of articles for new glider guiders.

I have also started playing with discus launched gliders which are typically thermal duration gliders that are launched by hand rather than by winch, hi-start or by motor.

There is something magical about a plane that flies without a motor. None of my gliders/sailplanes have motors.

Imagine - you launch a sailplane with a winch or a hi-start, have it release at 300-500 feet up and then it is flying under your control - no motor, no sound. If you want to stay in the air more than 2-3 minutes, you now must become a hunter. ( think Elmer Fudd with a wind sock! :eek: Im huntin thermals .. Hehehehe! :rolleyes: )

You search for signs and look for indications of that invisable force called a thermal, your recharge in the sky. If you are successful your plane will rise 1000, 1500 maybe 2000 feet in the air. Maybe more. You can stay up 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, hours, all with no fuel, no motor, only the natural forces that can not be seen. Cool?

Wonderful! :p

Or walk to the edge of a cliff with a 25 mph wind blowing straight in. (hold on to your hat!) Look over the edge! The cliff may be 50, 100, 500 feet high and overlook the ocean, or a gorge or a valley. Now you take your glider, no motor, and chuck it off the cliff into that open space, that fluid we call air, and hope there is enough lift to hold it up. If there is, you watch it float out, or rise on an invisable cushion.

You don't want to mess up at the slopes where I fly because it is 50-100 feet down to the ocean or the Hudson river. Recovery, if you can recover it at all, involves a water rescue! ( Bye bye $150-$300 in plane and electronics! :( )

Landing areas can be very small, very rough ground or non-existant. Sometimes I land my Zagi by flying it into bushes. That is why EPP foam is so popular with slope gliders. When you decide to land a glider, typically you are going to land somewhere because there is not motor to take you up for another go around. So you get good at precision landing or you get good at fixing, or you fly EPP planes.

And many, perhaps most slope gliders are aileron/elevator controlled planes, to give you more positive banking and turning response in strong wind. R/E planes with high dihedral can be flown on the slope, but when the wind gets up there, they can have trouble. Then what happens is that 20 mph wind blows your plane over the back, into the swirling winds of the "rotor" or smashes it into the hill. Not cool! :o

I destroyed an original Aerobird trying to fly it on the slope. Neither the pilot or the plane were up to the task. ( It was very sad. Shattered the battery pack and destroyed the fuselage!)

When do you land? Whenever you like or when the wind stops blowing.

I have had to land because I ran down the battery on my transmitter, almost two hours. I now have 2000 mah battery packs for both of my computer radios.

All this without a motor. I find that very cool! :cool:

I enjoy my parkflyers but I LOVE my sailplanes and slope gliders.

(see what happens when you get me started talking about gliders and sailplanes! :D )

[Wingtips24]

Aeajr,

Man thanks for the full length description I certainly appreciate such thouroughness and description. Sorry it took me so long to write back. I started to read this the day I posted and had to go and when I came back I realized I had never finished it so I just reread the whole thing now. That puts some major light on this subject for me. I know when I first began flying I knew that at some point be interested in no motor gliders and sailplanes because the idea of flying with no motor was complety fascinating. And I had wondered what those guys do who fly on the side of a cliff and the wind fails. Wow the risk must also contribute majorly to the joy of it all. I think slope soaring an aerobird could be a great training tool since they are so light and you could cut the motor on if you absolutly had to or too cheat a bit. LOL. I am not quite to the point where I would buy one of these yet as I am just starting to build with bluecore foam and move up in the style of planes I fly. I do feel I could fly it but it's almost like a fine bottle of wine that I am waiting to age before I open. In the meantime I am just continuing to work on my piloting skills.

What would you say is a good way to start out with the TD planes or the slope soarer. My guess is that a slope soarer may be a bit more of a natural transition from what I am use to. Would I be correct in thinking that TD planes require a bit more skill knowledge and patience? I want to start learning about them now so I can start thinking about which plane I will get when I'm ready. Do you have any suggestions on a good one to start with?

[aeajr]

Here are a range of choices that you might consider as first
gliders/sailplanes, depending on your goals.

If your primary focus is a first sailplane for thermal soaring, I have to give
a high recommendation to the Great Planes Spirit. This was my first thermal
sailplane. The Spirit is a 2 Meter ( about 79" wingspan) plane built up from
balsa and plywood then covered with MonoKote. It is available as a kit, and
ARF or an RTF package.

A 2 Meter plane, is a very good size for a new pilot. A nice convenience wiht
the Spirit is that the wing is desgned so you can keep it as two wing halves
to be joined at the field which makes it very easy to store and transport. I
tape mine together at the field with clear packing tape which makes them very
strong, then remove the tape at the end of the day.

In addition to being easy to fly the Spirit includes spoilers in the design,
which makes this a RES, rudder/elevator/spoiler plane. This is one of the
reasons I selected it. Spoilers can be very helpful in landing in small areas
or for getting the plane out of a strong thermal. If you get the ARF or
Select RTF versions, the spoilers are sealed under the covering. You can fly
it as a R/E plane, then set-up the spoilers when you are ready.

I also have another 2M RES sailplane and a 3 meter full house sailplane.
However after hunderes of sailplane flights across all three, I still love the
Spirit and really enjoy flying it. I recommend this as a first sailplane all
the time.

Spirit Kit - $50
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ596&P=7
Spirit ARF $95
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMK19&P=7
Spirit Select RTF including Radio - $145
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVK55**&P=7


The Goldberg Gentle Lady also has a great reputaiton as a first glider. Like
the Spirit, it is a built up balsa design. It does not have spoilers and the
wing is designed to be permanantly joined. That makes it a little less
conveneit for transport or storage, but I am told it is well worth the
trouble. I have never flown one but there are several at our club which are
flown by new flyers and experienced flyers. They fly very well. Between the
Spirit and the Gentle Lady, thousands have come into thermal sailplanes and
have learned to enjoy silent flight.

Gentle Lady Kit - $45
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDJC3&P=7
Gentle Lady ARF - $90
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXELP0&P=7


The Multiplex Easy Glider is a new plane so I will spend a little time on this one.
Unlike the Spirit or the Gentle
Lady, the Easy Glider is made of Elapor foam. Similar to EPP foam, it can
take a real beating without requiring a lot of repairs. I had the opportunity
to fly one of these off of a hi-start. It flew very well though I feel my Spirit
flies better and thermals easier. However the Easy Glider might be a better choice if you are
learning on your own. Beginner mistakes that would send the Spirit or the
Gentle Lady to the repair table would not break the Easy Glider, or would only
take a few minutes to fix with some CA glue.

The Spirit and the GL can be flown with 2 channel radios. With three you can use the spoilers on the Spirit too. The Easy Glider has ailerons so you need a 4 channel radio. If you have a computer radio, such as the Hitec Flash 5SX, you can set the ailerons up as flapperons or spoilerons to help with more precise landings.

I have not sloped the Easy Glider yet, but because of the foam construction and
aileron controls, I think this could be a good first slope plane as well.

Easy Glider - ARF $70 - Just becoming available in the US in June 2005.
The one I flew was purchased on Germany.
http://www.multiplexusa.com/models/ParkFliers/EasyGlider.htm
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKHS7&P=7


If your primary focus is slope soaring, the ZAGI flying wings have a
reputation as great flyers AND being very tough. My first slope plane was a
Zagi 3C. I love it and fly it often. It is made of EPP foam and can really
stand up to abuse. The 3C is no longer available, but the 5C seems to have
taken its place.

Zagi 5C - ARF $60
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHWX5&P=ML

Two other first slope planes that have been highly recommended to me are the
Eraser 48 and the Eraser 60. As far as I know, these are intended as a slope
only planes. I don't see any provision for hi-start of winch launching.

Eraser 48
http://www.canterburysailplanes.co.nz/index.php/item/department/Gliders/item/Eraser.html
Eraser 60
http://www.canterburysailplanes.co.nz/index.php/item/department/Gliders/item/Eraser%2060.html


If you would like to read a larger article on getting started in
sailplanes/gliders, try this link
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=36

[Wingtips24]

Wow Thanks for the list I looked through a good many of those planes. A friend of mine just got his hands on an Extreme what do you think of those. Would you say the Aerobird Mods are about the same or does it need different mods or less modes?

[aeajr]

Extreme?

Do you mean an Aerobird Xtreme?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Explore/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1381

Mods would be similar. Not sure the motor mount reinforcement is needed here but probably would not hurt.

Or do you mean the Vortex Extreme?
http://www.hobbytron.net/vortex-extreme.html
Not familiar with this plane but based on specs, this has on/off throttle and 3 hour wall charger. I would not recommend it.

or something else?

[Wingtips24]

Sorry Aerobird Extreme, I flew my Parkzone F-27 stryker yesterday. I put the stock 480 motor on it with my 3s polyquest 11.1v batt on it. Seemed like it needed some thrust but it was sure spinning fast. I just think to get some real bite the prop needs to be bigger just gotta watch the amps. I only have a pixie 20. Have you flown one of those before. I was wondering if I needed to keep the fins on it caise I could use a larger prop if I could take them off. I have seen wings with no stabilizers but that may be due to design not option. Any thoughts on any of this?

[aeajr]

How much speed are you trying to get. That plane is not blazing fast but it moves right along.

The fins provide some yaw stability but I guess you could take 'em off an try it.

You are already pushing that motor at 11.1V. If you go to larger prop, make it one size and try it with a little shallower pitch so you don't cook the motor.

[Wingtips24]

Well I suppose I am getting around 25 Flat out and maybe 30-35 diving. I would like to get around 45-65 as I was told it could do but I imagine that was with a change of prop. I plan on removing some of the un needed mass on the plane to lighten it a bit. It stock is around 21oz with nothing added of anykind. Heavy plane I think I can get about 4 oz off it without sacrificing strength. The cool thing is the bare EPP fuse is $20 even no tax so I'm no too concerned with my cutting. It is an experimental plane. You ever flown one of these?