Fromeco Lithium Ion Batteries

[Carbonwingnut]

Fromeco is pleased to anounce the release of our new battery line the "Relions". These batteries are Lithium Ion 4400mAh/2200mAh packs that are assembled by us in house. Fromeco uses only Fresh batteries straight from the OEM (LG Chem, same battery other leading battery suppliers use) . We utilize no middle man to assemble our packs, so we can afford to sell them at the Lowest price in the market place, (that we know of). $52.00 for the 4400mAh pack/$26.00 for the 2200mAh pack. All packs are assembled using welded metal tabs. If you are building a new bird and you wanted new Lithium Ion batteries, but couldn't bring yourself to pay the ridiculous $500 price tag, come check us out. We can save you some money, and hook you up with the finest quality Lithium Ions that you will find. Save most of your hard earned Cabage and buy your Lithium Ion batteries from us!

Kurt Cook
Fromeco Scale Avionics LLC
www.fromeco.org
wingnut@sandynet.org

[opualuan]

how about some discharge curves? lg's site shows 0.5C max...

[Carbonwingnut]

I have talked to the LG folks and their cut sheet is incorrect, I don't know why they don't correct it. The specs on these batteries are the same as the other cut sheets (18650A1/A2) at a 2200mah rating. The cells are capable of 2.2 amp out put. We are starting to figure out why the other companies who sell these batteries don't post the newest LG Chem Spec. It is very confusing to customers as it doesn't make much sense. One thing to remember is LG only makes one Varient of the 2200mah battery that is the 18650S2 so anyone claiming to use LG chem cells at the 2200mah rating is using the exact same thing we are.


Kurt Cook
Fromeco Scale Avionics LLC
www.fromeco.org
wingnut@sandynet.org

[opualuan]

2.2A max? that's going to be a hard sell around here, when the new 2200ma thunder power li-polymers are capable of 22A max output.

[Carbonwingnut]

opualuan,


We are not trying to compete with Lithium Poly batteries, these are 2 different technologies. Yes you are right about the Thuderpower batteries, the 22amp rating is surge amperage and not constant operational out put. Unless of course you are wiring the batteries 3s or 4s or something.

When I stated 2.2 amps I was talking about the individual cells, i.e. a 2200 mah pack 2 cells in parrallel is capable of 4.4 amps with much higher surge ratings. A high amperage out put is important with **receivers** but not nearly as important as it is for electric motors.

Our batteries are for the Receiver market, we do not recommend them for the Electric Market as (gas tanks) like you would use a "Thunderpower battery" for. Our batteries are assembled with a different purpose intended for them. It sounds as if you have plenty of battery knowledge so I won't go into the advantages of Lithium Ion over Lithium Poly as **receiver** packs.

Our Packs are basically the same thing that Powerflite, MPI, TBM sell, we just sell them at a cheaper price point. Tons of flyers have already taken advantage of our price point.

Why would a RC Groups Modeler who is in the market for 4400 mah Lithium Ion ***receiver*** packs not benfit from our Product announcement? IF he were to go to Powerflite he would pay 139.00 for these batteries, if he were to go to Thunderpower he would pay 119.00, if he was to purchase them from us he would pay 55.00? If that is a hard sell, I have missed something.


Kurt Cook
Fromeco Scale Avionics LLC
www.fromeco.org
wingnut@sandynet.org

[opualuan]

just so you know, 22amp is a continuous rating of the new TP lithium polymers... surge is supposedly 12-15C...

I can understand the need for rx pack lithiums, for durability. a metal cell is tougher mechanically. I'm unaware of the other advantages of cylindrical lithium ion over lithium polymer for the application of an rx battery. can you enlighten me (us)? the voltages are similar, so you still need a regularor...

[Carbonwingnut]

opualuan,

Yes, yes you are right about the 22 amps I went back to the site and re did the math in my head, wow they are really starting to get some hellashis numbers out of those batteries.

On the RX thing, reasons to use Lithium Ion as RX is: As you stated they are more robust w/steel cases, these things are mostly used in 25% and up gassers. Vibration is an issue, this is where the metal can really provide useful protection especially the way some people strap in their equipment.

If you use a Li-Po 2200mah size your going to take up more real estate length wise in your aircraft, unless you strap them to the side of the aircraft you could then take advantage of their smaller vertical shape. Safety is and can be a concern, if you strap in a Li-Po into a tight area and then something goes wrong you know have a chemically driven Hydraulic wedge trying to tear apart your plane that you can't get out, until it is done reacting. Lithium Ion cells have vents, they can explode like a there brother the Li-po but they must be driven extremely hard, harder then most people have the equipment for. For the most part they just vent, Lithium Ion also have a PCT which is another safety factor.

RX packs do need to be Regulated, Fromeco Sells one of the highest output Regulators on the market, (I know, I know every one says theirs is the best, but we have tested everyone else’s and ours is one of the best if not the best) our regulator is only rated to 9amps and this is because of the wiring limitations, we could go higher if we add more output leads. (3amps per lead, currently we only sell 3 per switch) We have been researching a good switching regulator, however we have not found one that will not cause some sort of interference, even if we found one we would still be limited to out put wiring limitations to the Receiver, 3 amps rated per plug, (I know they will go higher, but Fromeco only rates its gear on the lowest rating of the weakest gear in that component (i.e. wiring)) Some of you reading this are going to say but XYZ company says there regulators will do 20 amps, they are using angstroms of the truth. An angstrom is 10 to the-10, just the other day a rep of a regulator stated their reg would do continuous 10 amps with 20 amp spikes, this was from a well known company, this reg had no heat sink, and only one 22awg wire in and a 22awg wire out. They stated it used a new chip that ran ultra cool?????????? Will their unit do 10amps? Probably for about a 1/4 of a second.

I believe the biggest reason to use the Lithium Ion over the Poly is Price/battery more suited to application power out put wise. For the most part 22amps of juice to the receiver is not needed even on our big 40% planes, so there is no real reason to pay for that much for the extra energy potential that one is going to get. One can use a Li-poly for a receiver pack however, that person would pay more for the same amount of electrons.

The main reason I posted a rebuttal to your first post was to make sure people knew we were actually targeting the RX market and not the electric gas tank market, which we can't compete with. One of our 2200mah packs is only 26.00 bucks, one of our 4400mah packs is 52.00 bucks that is still cheaper than a 2200thunderpower battery and yet twice the capacity. The amperage output is not as high, but that is not needed for RX use.


Some of these may be weak arguments as reasons why to use one over the other, however we believe they are justified concerns that one should look at.

Kurt Cook
Fromeco Scale Avionics LLC
wingnut@sandynet.org
www.fromeco.org

[isvana]

Kurt - are these the same cells as used in the Konions discussed here? (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195781)

If so, you might be in for a rush.

If not, I'd still suggest you see what amp rating your 18650s can deliver for e-flight. Most reports have the standard (ex-laptop battery pack) 2150mAh 18650s giving up to 4C = 8.8Amps. Which means your batteries could become very popular for standard GWS park fliers.

FYI: if a cell is rated at 2.2 amps, putting 2 in series does not make them give 4.4 amps. Putting 2 in parallel would give you the 4.4 amps. Cells in series means summing the voltages, cells in parallel means summing the ampages. I hope, as a battery seller, you knew this already and your comment above was a typo... :rolleyes:

In any case, good luck with the business!

[Carbonwingnut]

isvana,

Thank you for the correction, yes that is a typo:( sorry about that guys. I got myself turned around some how.

I have had not seen the Konion cells yet so those are news to me, very interesting. I have done some heavy testing on some Sony and Panasonic cells that were 1300mah cells, we really abused them so that we could use them for charger testing. Basically discharge them as fast as possible and then do some charger testing. I can tell you those could deliver about 5.5 amps in a "2 cells in ***series*** 7.4vdc" configuration much more than that and I would start to see some fade due to the cells internal resistance. Keep in mind we purchased these as junk cells and abused them as such. I need to put together some packs of the LG Chem cells which are of a higher quality and very fresh (I don't know what the age of he sony/panasonics was) and see what they do in some heavy amp tests.

I would not doubt the 8.8 amp number in the same configuration mentioned above, but since I have not tested I can't say that they will or won't. I think that I need to give it a try though???


Kurt Cook
Fromeco Scale Avionics LLC

[isvana]

Kirk, if you got >5A out of the 1300mAh 18650s you have better versions of those than I do. If you get 8-9A out of your new batteries, I'd suggest posting the results in the Batteries and Chargers section: I would certainly recommend an 18650 pack over Li-Poly at these discharge levels. I think the sweet spot on pricing would be $20 for 2-cell and $30 for 3-cell packs. Anyhow - good luck - I'll watch this thread with interest! :cool:

[Carbonwingnut]

isvana,

I really doubt that I am going to get 8amps. I am setting up a pretty heafty resistor back, (will double as the new shop heater) and I will put these guys to the test. I think if they would run any where close to 8 amps continous some one would be selling them in that package already. On the sony/panasonic cells that 5 amp draw didn't last long before the amperage slowly started to degrade, if I went any higher than 5.5 the amperage would drop off instantly. I am not an Electrics Guy, so when we did the discharging it more about dumping the cells than seeing what they would put out, I do remeber 5.5 though because if I went any higher than that the battery would shut down on High Resistance, or the PTC, I don't know which, most likely high resistance.


I will keep you informed, unfortunately I think that the Lipo is king of this market for a reason.

Kurt Cook
www.fromeco.org