Reasonable Priced winches...

[CDignition]

I have built them before, but was wondering what the market would be for a nice reasonably priced winch??...
I can make it any way we might like, so let the ideas fly, and give an approx ballpark..:)

see my website to see other parts I have made..;)

[Ollie]

See:
http://www.superskeg.com/
This is a very high quality winch kit for a good price. Can you beat the quality or price or both?

The after market products to upgrade winches are here:
http://www.monkeytumble.com/winchdoc/index.htm
Can you do better?

There is also the Little Big Winch for individuals. see:
http://www.irfmachineworks.com/lbwinch/

Most clubs already own winches so the market there is competing with maintenance or the alternative of replacement. Can you compete with maintenance costs?

A large number of sailplane fliers are swithching to electric. So the potential market is shrinking. This trend is exmplified by Sailplane and Electric Modeler changing its name to Quiet Flier and emphasizing electric power over pure sailplanes.

it looks to me like a small and shrinking market that is already well served

[CDignition]

Well, that looks pretty good,lol..I was going to make myself one, and maybe make a few extra, but looks like I wont need to bother..thanks

:)

[szastoupil]

CDignition,

Do you have a good lead on motors available at a decent price? I have found rebuilt 6V Ford longshaft motors under $100, but they are a heavy motor. There has to be a lighter motor avaible with plenty of torque, but is a matter of locating one that my pocketbook can handle.

Scott

[CDignition]

The best way to do it is use a newer Bosch motor (newer mini starter type motor) with a short shaft, and gear it off to the drum....

I have freinds in a motor rebuild house, and likeley can get motors wit hany shaft I want....

[szastoupil]

I have read that some people are using Bosch starter motors out of an Audi. That sounds expensive. It is a matter of getting a model number of something that will work so I know what to look out for. It is finding the right one that can be easily disassembled and able to remove the shaft and replace it with a longer machined shaft. Do you have any feedback on this matter?

Geared? I haven't seen one geared before. That seems somewhat inefficient.

Also, are these permanent magnet motors so they can be braked with a resistor load?

I think it would be kind of fun to design a motor for a given Torque/Speed curve. Thats were the motor rebuild shop would come in handy for rewinding a motor. Although it may not be neccessary to go through the work.

Scott

[CDignition]

I guess by Geared, I mean, put a sprocket on the short output shaft, and connect it to the drum, which has its own bearings...

Im sure a motor could be made to be braked, but it may wear the battery down faster...

Bosch motors are plentiful and cheap...I have a Bosch motor starter in my racecar..while not cheap, it is easy to get cheap wore put ones and rebuild them.

I Will talk with my motor shop tomorrow...there may be an industrial motor available cheap..:)

[CDignition]

Here is a pic of the one I built about 5 years ago..;) Simple.

[szastoupil]

Cool picture. That is all that I am looking for. I prefer to not have a heavy motor, but I'll take what I can get. Did you have a hub machined? Also, is that a Ford Longshaft? And why the sprockets?

Scott

[damo]

I'm going to make one myself (when I get round to it;) ). I was thinking of taking a couple of sprockets and fitting one to the motor and one to the drum and having a chain drive, that way it's easier and you can adjust the gearing if you need to. I think that what you say is about what I was thinking of. You could be extra lazy and just cut a bike wheel hub in half and fit that to the drum, a bearing on one end and a bearing with sprocket on the other(you would have you stop the ratchet). Fit a spocket to the motor and then fit a chain. What do you think? any good?

[CDignition]

Im a toolmaker, and have a CNC machine to make things on..;) so I make them myself..:)

The sprocket was for a brake, but I never did make it work....wont bother wit hthat this time around..

this pic IS a ford longshaft starter....

[damo]

What pic?

[Hoot]

You seem to be re-inventing the wheel. Our club members own several McCan winches (http://www.superskeg.com/) They are reliable, inexpensive, easy to obtain and a proven product to boot.

I have my kit and it is ready to assemble.

I bought the Ford long shaft starter motor from O'Reilly auto parts for the grand total of $26.00

If this motor screws up in the next summer or two, or three or four, I will simply chuck the starter motor and buy another one.

Steve Gibson
Houston, TX

[winchdoc]

Long time ago, before the Bird of Time, someone decided to build themselves an electric winch. There were no plans to follow, nothing else to look at and copy except for the one on the front of Bubba's bumper.

The motor came from a junkyard.

The Ford starter came from a US junkyard.
The Bosch starter came from a Euro junkyard.

The first winch builders used what they could get easy/cheap.

Fast forward forty years.

The winch motors used in competition today must comply to rules regarding the specifications.
The F3B winches have some pretty well defined specs to meet, and must be tested, etc. They setteled on the Bosch motor mostly because of Euro junkyard thing.

AMA winches are supplied by the CD and, in theory, can be whatever they want, as long as they are available to all competitors, and mostly the same. In the old days, you could always tell which winch worked best, by the long line behind it.

Practice has shown in AMA contests they use the Ford LS motor.
Mostly because of the US junkyard thing.

If you sport fly, and don't give a rip for the specifications, you use whatever motor you can find, maybe at the junkyard. (maybe not, I heard of a guy that used an Aveox to power a small winch)

[szastoupil]

I wondering if a glow engine starter would work for a Gentle Lady. It says Torquemaster right on the motor, so how can it not work? :)

Scott

[CDignition]

You would be surprised....;)

[szastoupil]

You would be surprised....

Is that good or bad? Have you tryed a glow starter before? Or those just words of encouragement?

Scott

[winchdoc]

There is a winch retriever that uses the large glow starter motor.
I have heard complaints that the motor dosen't quite have 'enough'. That's a reeeealy subjective thing. I've seen them work just fine in the right hands.

Same thing with winch power. If you want to launch light simple stuff you could build a small winch like the Little Big Winch that Walt sells. I built one that used a Honda MC starter motor. You could carry the whole thing; battery and all, in one hand.


Now adays, if I want a low power simple launch, I use a high start.
I build powerful winches, that launch strong sailplanes really high.
If you have the skill tapping the pedal, you can baby a Gentle Lady up to the top. Problem is most GL fliers are entry level, and may not know how to gently tap it up. That is a good arguement for highstarts.

WinchDoc

[szastoupil]

Winchdoc,

Thanks for the feedback. I have experience on big winches that are using for full pedal launches on molded ships, so I have been taught how to toe tap a Gentle Lady launch. It is a must to have someone instructing on how to do it. I am looking to build my own winch to use when I can't make it to the regular flying field. Currently I use a Hi-Start, but would like more. Maybe I could use the glow starter as a retreiver to get the line most of the way back. I am looking for a lead on an affordable motor and the rest is history.

Scott

[winchdoc]

The glow starter motor has another possible advantage being a permanent magnet motor, you could enable dynamic braking instead of a tension-sensing brake we see on AMA winches.

Another consideration would the ease of converting it to your purpose. This is where the FLS is good, as it has a plain 5/8" shaft with a cross hole. Make sure that whatever motor you choose has a good way of mounting your drum.

WinchDoc