Mini Bird of Time - need help

[rb765]

I just now finished a Mini Bird of Time that I purchased as part of an estate lot. It is a 2 meter bird with 609" of surface. my weight came out to 26.53 oz on a fish scale which leaves a wing loading of 6.27 oz per sq foot.

My questions are:

I know absolutley nothing about sail planes, is this wing loading good?

I installed a hook for a highstart...how much room is needed for the launch?

And lastly, after installing the radio gear, I still had to add approximately 2 ounces of ballast to the nose to get it to balance on the spar. Should i hollow the nose a little to get the battery a little further forward to see if i could cut the weight, or should I not worry about it because of the wing loading?

I will try to take pictures of it tmw...

Thanks all
Ruben Barrios

[Ollie]

The wing loading is quite acceptable. In no wind conditions you might wish for a slightly lighter wing loading and in very windy conditions you might want to add ballast at the CG. With some flying experince you might be able to move the CG aft some by removing a little nose weight but , balancing on the spar is a very good way to begin.

You need a clear space about seven or eight times the relaxed length of the histart rubber aligned with the wind direction. This is assuming that the line length is three times the relaxed length of the rubber and the stretch is three times the relaxed length of the rubber. foe small fields, 25 or 50 feet of rubber will do and for larger fields, 100 feet of rubber would be better.

There are soaring clubs in your area. They will welcome you and you will be able to get benefits that are unavailable here on the net. Learning to soar is about ten times faster and ten times more accident free than going it alone. For most people, soaring with a group is also ten times more fun. One of the bigest soaring gatherings in the world is held every year in Visalia about 30 miles SE of Fresno. Look up the club that runs that contest. You will be glad you did.

CENTRAL VALLEY RC SOARING CLUB
JASON W GEORGE
559-591-3863

PO BOX 3223
VISALIA, CA 93278-3223

[aeajr]

rb765

Congratulations on your first glider/sailplane. You are about to embark on an adventure that will last the rest of your life, if you enter it successfully.

You wing loadings sound fine. 2 oz in the nose is fine.

1) Do you have any anyone around you to help you learn how to fly the plane?

2) Do you have a book or reference guide on flying a glider so you know some of what you need to do?

I have written up a fair amount of material for beginning glider pilots but I need to understand what your starting point is and what help you have.

3) What radio are you using?

4) Have you joined the AMA?

6) Have you ever flown any other kind of RC plane before?

7) do you plan to slope soar the plane, or launch from a hi-start and go thermal hunting? Do you know what I am talking about?

Here are a few threads that I would recommend you look over. I would suggest you look them over in the order I list them.

I will be very happy to help in any way I can.


Sailplanes are wonderful
http://www.rcflying.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5356

Glider terms
If the terms confuse you, you might take a look here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185385

[aeajr]

LAUNCHING

You will need some way to launch your glider, unless you are going to slope soar. Almost everyone starts with a hi-start because they cost under $100, they are small, and they easy to transport and store. An electric winch is another way, but can be over $500 and is big and heavy.

Save the winch for later, or join a club that has winches. That is what I did. Personally I find the winch harder to use because you have to control the winch while you fly the plane on the launch. With the hi-start you give the plane a toss and the hi-start does the rest. You focus on the plane.

I wrote an introduction to using a hi-start which you can find at this link:
Learning to use a hi-start:
http://www.torqueroll.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1017

There is also some photos and a video of a hi-start launch there.

If your flying field is less than 800 feet long, a full length hi-start may be too big for you as that is how much room you will need. Or, you may wish to start with something smaller which will feel easier to control for your training flights and for practice sessions. There are also mid sized hi-starts that will work fine in a 500' field.

For smaller fields, or for practice sessions, there is the up-start which works fine in about 300', about the size of a football or soccer field. It is just a smaller version of a hi-start. Typically this has about 25' of surgical tubing and 75-125 feet of line. The rest of the suggested room is for space to stretch the elastic.

Up-starts are great for practice or for people who fly at smaller fields. I have an up-start and a hi-start and I use them both. It only takes a minute or two to set it up an up-start and another minute or two to put it away. I love up-start and hi-start launches. They are exciting and graceful all at the same
time.

This Upstart from Tower Hobbies, for $30, would be good for a 2 meter plane. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE638&P=7

If you want a hi-start this works well for 2 meter planes and perhaps 2 1/2 meter planes:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE636&P=7

Just as a point of reference, I would not recommend less than 3/16 tubing for an upstart or 5/16" tubing for a hi-start for a 2 meter plane. Smaller tubing will launch your plane, but I feel
it is better to have more power and pull it back less then to be short of power when you need it.

Another good source for
hi-starts is NE Sailplanes. www.nesail.com.

Personally I find hi-start launches a blast. The plane goes up like a jet launched off of a carrier. When it leaves the end of the launch, it just floats off the line like a sailboat on the ocean. Or you can "zoom" off the end and gain even more height.

The nice thing about hi-starts is that you can control the power of the launch
by how far you pull back, so for your first launches you might pull back half
the length of the elastic. Later you might go to double the length of the
elastic, or more. Also, once you release the plane, all you have to think
about is steering, the elastic does the rest.

Off the up-start you can get launches of 125 - 200 feet depending your talent,
the amount of line and the wind conditions. That is enough to start you
learning and to begin hunting for thermals. Later, if you have the room,
launching off a larger hi-start or a winch you can get 450-600+ foot launches
which really puts you up there to hunt longer and further.

As mentioned above, you can also launch with a motor. A power pod can be added to a sailplane for launching with a glow or electric motor. This works well for people who have small fields, or those who like variety in their launches. I have one of these as well.


Thermal gliders are all about hunting. The higher the launch, the easier to search for those big thermals. These are really exciting launches.

Flights can range from 2 minutes to hours. It all depends on how good a thermal hunter you are. Every flight is an adventure!

If you have questions, ask. Others helped me. I am happy to help you.

Other references:

Here is a link that has a real good introduction to gliders.
http://www.mrcss.org/pdf/articles/a_beginners_guide.pdf

Torrey Pnies Gulls - RC Soaring - The Basics
http://www.torreypinesgulls.org/RCsoaring.htm

The photo below is of a Great Planes Spirit 2 Meter plane being launched with a hi-start. This shot was taken less than a second after the pilot threw the plane.

[rb765]

Thanks all for all your information. To answer some questions, I have flown before, but not much. I finally solo'ed on New Years Eve on an electric plane after 20 years on and off of the hobby building planes for display and for others. Right now, I am building ducted fan jet for a friend. It drew first blood tonight, so i'm giving it a rest for a day or two..

Equipment:

Futaba 6va
tower 6 channel (6va clone)
Hitech focus 4
Neon
and one or two more hidden in the cupboards I think. I will be dumping most of them except the neon for an eclipse or 9cap in the not so distant future. I am getting tired of resetting the settings when i switch planes and want a radio with multi model memory

Planes I own ready to fly with equipment installed:
40 trainer
25 duraplane with mods (sheeted foam wing w/ more area)
mirage 550 (added ailrons)
Rascal 400
ParkShark
MiniMax
Mini Bird of Time
Bridi Tercel

Planes almost completed:
Senior Telemaster (need to cover wings)
Gentle Lady (need to finish fuse)
Airtronics electric glider cant remember the name (need to mount motor in fuse and cover the fuse

I am not yet a member of the AMA, but probably will be soon. The nearest club to me is about 25 miles away, but the nearest place to fly is right out my front door. I have a small field in front of my front yard that is about the size of a football field. if I want to fly something a little bigger, I have a 20 acre field about 200 yards away, and for even larger, i have another one about 1/4 mile from home straight as the ATV flies.

I do have people i can call on to help me fly, the only problem is scheduling...between being co-president of the PTC at my son's school, Assistant CubMaster, working, and family obligations, it is real hard to find a chance to get out. I will probably go out and purchase a highstart because I like to have all my own equipment.

[rb765]

i forgot to add pending projects on my bench:

GWS Corsair (it will be airbrushed and detailed for added scale appearance)
another rascal
rebuilding two gliders that I obtained in as estate lot including one with a 100" wingspan 3 piece wing with brakes
another Senior Telemaster clone that I will be making into a camera plane for video and still
and I have a bundle of bluecore enrout from Merced to build planes with my Cubscouts (frogs or parksharks) after we do rockets in March

and did I mention I have a Nexus 30 too?

[aeajr]

Wow! You got a lota stuff.

Just send the overflow this way. Ha Ha!

[rb765]

the wife said if i didnt get out and start crashing planes, she would do it for me..haha

[Lucas490]

1) Don't overcontrol
2) Don't get too far downwind
3)Practice control on the ground when the glider is coming toward you.