Experiences with the Grand Espirt?

[gdjsky01]

Anyone have any experience with a Grand Espirt? The short kit from DC hobby is 'calling my name'. But I'd like some perspective on it's performance. It sure looks awesome.

[Ollie]

I never owned a Grand Espirit but always wanted one. It is still competitive in the Nostalgia event. It won that event at the nationals in 1998 (I took 4th). The wing spar was fine for 6 volt winches back in the 70's but it would have to be launched with care today. There are two modifications I would suggest. Replace the fiberglass tail boom with a carbon tail boom and beef up the wing spar with carbon spar caps.

[John Walter]

This is one great plane. I picked up an orginal Airtronics Grand Esprit kit at a local swap meet (togther with a NIB Graupner Cirrus for $180! ). I increased the dihedral a bit from that shown on the plans and I completely changed the spar system. I built a carbon and balsa spar like the Bubble Dancer and Dark Star and I used a 3/8" aluminum joiner. This is one strong spar! I confirmed that when I was a little heavy-footed with a Real Balls winch.

AUW is about 70oz including nose weight to balance the rather heavy FG boom. Take Ollie's advice and use a CF boom instead. The flat bottom airfoil will not penetrate like more modern airfoils, but it is a dream to fly on a relaxing afternoon. I have had flights in excess of one hour and specked out from a 50 foot pop-off.

You can see a photo of the plane at the 2002 Woodcrafters event in the photo album, page 6 (www.skybench.com and follow the links to Woodcrafters).

You can't go wrong woth this plane if your like Nostalgia.

[schrederman]

I built one and enjoyed it greatly. I will build another soon, with a second set of wings for flying RES instead of NOS. I always wanted one back in the 70s but never built it. When I got back into the hobby, they weren't available. I got one from Dream Catcher, and it was a nice build. I don't think you can go wrong, but it's a bit more difficult to build than an Oly II. Again...very rewarding...

Jack Womack:D

Hats off to Lee Renaud, Cecil Haga, and many other designers of the day.....and today as well....

[gdjsky01]

Originally posted by schrederman
I built one and enjoyed it greatly. I will build another soon, with a second set of wings for flying RES instead of NOS. I always wanted one back in the 70s but never built it. When I got back into the hobby, they weren't available. I got one from Dream Catcher, and it was a nice build. I don't think you can go wrong, but it's a bit more difficult to build than an Oly II. Again...very rewarding...

Jack Womack:D

Hats off to Lee Renaud, Cecil Haga, and many other designers of the day.....and today as well....

Thanks Jack and everyone else! If there are any other items you can think of I'd love to hear from you. Jack has Lone Star Balsa, I have Superior Balsa about 20 minutes (or so depending on traffic) away from me. So getting wood at a decent price for use with 'Short Kits' is no problem. So I ordered the DC Hobby short kit and carbon boom.

I am on the list for a Janco Houston Hawk and so I am holding back getting anything else until I get notice of the price and availability. The 2 meter Gnome and a Bird of Time (kit) should keep me busy for the next month or two! Then the Houston Hawk and/or the Grand Esprit depending on the HH arrival time. I should be in my house by then and have an entire garage (3 car garage) bay as a shop! Whoo Hooo! Space!

Again any other comments about the Grand Esprit or the DC Hobby short kit are welcome. I'll no doubt ask more questions when I get a look at the plans and decide on whether or not the spar(s) need work. Not to make it winchproof, but winchable within reason.

Best wishes,
Jeff

I love the smell of balsa in the morning...

[gdjsky01]

Originally posted by schrederman
I built one and enjoyed it greatly. I will build another soon, with a second set of wings for flying RES instead of NOS.
<snip>
Jack Womack:D


BTW: I am not interested in NOS contests per se. So I am interested in your thoughts on spoiler for her if you have the time.

Do the plans show spoilers as an option?
Thanks
Jeff

[gdjsky01]

Originally posted by jawalter

<snip>
I built a carbon and balsa spar like the Bubble Dancer and Dark Star and I used a 3/8" aluminum joiner. This is one strong spar! I confirmed that when I was a little heavy-footed with a Real Balls winch.

Thanks. That's about what I expect I'll do. I'd be interested in the exact materials you used.


Take Ollie's advice and use a CF boom instead.


I did. I ordered the CF boom. Expensive but I guess worth it.


You can't go wrong woth this plane if your like Nostalgia.


Dunno about Nostalgia per se. I just like wooden built up gliders. For most contests I'll be flying RES with a Gnome or BofT or Houston Hawk when they come out. Not AVAs :rolleyes:. At least not right now. Some day though I'll get a moudlie. Someday... :D

The Grand Espirt would be a just a beautiful ship to fly on a sunny CA morning.

Jeff

[John Walter]

Sorry, I can't remember the size of the carbon, But I would guess it was about 3/8" by 0.060 - 0.014 by 48" single taper. I tapered the width after the dihedral break. I guess the last 2' was 0.014" by 1/4" carbon. I used a single tapered carbon piece through the dihedral break. I built the inner panel with the balsa webs out to about 3" shy of the break and waited until the expoxy was hard. For the shear webs/ joiner at the dihedral break I used some poplar cut to shape and filled each side with more balsa. I used a jig to compress the sparcaps at the dihedral break to permanently set the shape then continued the webs to the tips after the epoxy had set.

The joiner box used 3/8" ID brass tube, 1/16" ply webs. I then wrapped the ends of the tube with kevlar (for burst strength) and then wrapped it with 2 OZ glass on a 45 degree bias (for shear load). The entire spar was wrapped with kevlar thread and glued down with epoxy.

I hope that all makes sense!

[T. Lyttle]

A friend had one, and it was ALWAYS flyable, to the point that he occasionally specked it out from a handlaunched "trimming flight". I never owned one, but I sure lusted after his; even after 30 years it is still not for sale...

[gdjsky01]

Originally posted by T. Lyttle
A friend had one, and it was ALWAYS flyable, to the point that he occasionally specked it out from a handlaunched "trimming flight". I never owned one, but I sure lusted after his; even after 30 years it is still not for sale...

I doubt I'll ever be that good. Maybe... :D Gosh that's a big plane to be throwing isn't it?

As far as lusting after one, I figure $250 ready to fly.
$100 for the short kit and boom. Another $50 or $60 in wood (I have some on hand and Superior Balsa is 20 minutes away).
$60 worth of servos. I have an RX and RX battery already. Also have ton's of covering (though maybe not the colors I'll want!). About $30-$40 worth of carbon and kevlar.

So about $250 when all said and done maybe a bit more. Not 'unreasonable' if you really want one. An ARF like it, even with slave labor would have to run that much money and would not have a flight pack.

Of course then there are those months of my free labor... :D

I love the smell of Balsa in the morning...
Jeff
La Habra Heights, CA.

[schrederman]

The spoilers are on the plan and part of the original design.

Enjoy......

Jack Womack

[T. Lyttle]

$250 is a big investment if you have to make it every 3 weeks or so, but if you can build, fly, and crash beyond repair in tha t period of time, then there is a problem.

However, if you look at that investment as being entertainment, and it takes you a couple of years to waste a model that big, then it is much cheaper. Money in this hobby is highly overrated; just try any other popular hobby to see what I mean.

Besides, I really can't remember anyone completely writing off a big sailplane like that under anything other than severe contest conditons; sport or low-pressure contests will allow that model to last years, if not decades...

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

I built one in 78-79 , it was a beautiful sight going up to a small speck. I just sold it 2 weeks ago to Cpt Crunchie in palo alto. it needed re covering and a little TLC. I replaced it with a AVA. I won a few contest with it back in the early 80's
Charlie

[T. Lyttle]

See? 25 years, and still viable; some investment, eh? Can't go wrong...

[gdjsky01]

Well I ordered. It took them 3 days to tell me a perfectly good credit card, perfectly good information (I took a snapshot of the web page to verify it) and maker of the Grand Espirt short kit says in an email "Can't process your card..."

Sigh... Fine, next time I triple check the entires and use the ATM card. Then I get a treuly rude email telling me I input an expiration date that had the letter C in it. They write that because I can not order online properly I can now only order with a postal money and by mail. I told them to stick the GE where the air don't rise. Worse they have lost my business for good because they were too lazy to call me and simply verify the date. Instead they sent a rude email.

I am Principal Software Engineer at a large online company with 25 years of programming under my belt and the 7 of it, all online. I damn well know how to make an online order. I've ordered 10's of the thousands (yes 10s of thousands) of dollars worth of merchadise on the net. In fact I've written such software (but made sure only valid entries were given at order time).

Apparently this company is doing so well they can afford to throw away customers. Their loss.

Oh well. I'll send the money to a reputable firm like Sky Bench.
Jeff

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

who is DC hobby ??????
Charlie

[schrederman]

Dream Catcher Hobbies... Owned by a fellow named Roy Simpson, that I've never met personally. I have heard he's not the most congenial spirit on the planet, but I never make judgements on anything other than personal experience. My buying / building experience was good. Sorry that Jeff had a problem with them... It's a great model, and a pretty decent short kit. I should never have sold it... I'll have to build another, after all... I made templates!!! I drew cad plans for the wings!!! What else would you expect from a old scratcher?

Jack Womack

[gdjsky01]

Originally posted by schrederman
Dream Catcher Hobbies... Owned by a fellow named Roy Simpson, that I've never met personally. I have heard he's not the most congenial spirit on the planet, but I never make judgements on anything other than personal experience. My buying / building experience was good. Sorry that Jeff had a problem with them... It's a great model, and a pretty decent short kit. I should never have sold it... I'll have to build another, after all... I made templates!!! I drew cad plans for the wings!!! What else would you expect from a old scratcher?

Jack Womack

Jack I am no angel:rolleyes: , but the email they sent was downright rude. "You can no longer order online. You must order by mail with a money order...". Give me a break! All they had to do was politely ask me to give a call and clear up the expire date. I'd have gladly done so and then sung their praises.

Okay, before I get moderated I won't post about it anymore. No sense beating a dead horse anyway. Shame really. I wanted a GE.

Thats okay. Leaves more money to happily spend with Janco Model for a Houston Hawk when ready! And to spend with Ray at SkyBench for something;), Laser Arts, and/or Isthmus :p. I have already bought a product from Mark Miller at Isthmus (a Mirage short kit) and he was very amicable and pleasant.

Best wishes to all,
Jeff

[Wind Shadow]

Hey Jeff,
you mentioned the "Mirage" short kit by Isthmus--I got a couple of them from Mark, NICE KITS!
With a little updating to the structure(as outlined on Mark's website) I think the Mirage will be a VERY good performing RES bird.

All this PLUS, you "get" to build it!! :D

Best to 'ya,
Wind Shadow