Bob Dodgson Designs ... Where to find information?

[Dave Moore]

I have acquired a pair of heavily used examples of one of Dodgson's designs, with the intention of making at least one flyable model out of them. but I don't know which model they are.

So I find myself curious about Dodgson's designs in general. Is there a good source of information I could take a look at? I Googled, but came up with nothing of substance.

[webguyjv]

I recommend that you do a search right here at RCGroups.

I posted a thread about a year ago, asking about a Dodgson kit that I have -- the Camano. As I recall, there were maybe two users that were Dodgson fans -- I think one of them had even purchased all of the Dodgson designs from the manufacturer after they went out of business (I think that company was in Washington as well).

The guy I'm thinking of lives somewhere here in NorCal and maybe he can selll you plan copies. I can't speak for him, but I would search the threads for "Camano" or "Dodgson" and you'll be able to locate the person I'm referring to. I forget his name, but I do recall that he was a wealth of info on these planes.

Someday I'll sell mine as I don't think I'll ever get to building it.

All of my time is now spent building a new NCFM Moth, and I can't wait to take it out and throw it off a hill.

Happy Flying ;-)

Webguyjv

[jester1a]

Post pictures- I'm sure alot of people will be able to identify them. I currently have a Camano and a Pivot that just needs re-installation of radio as well as never opened Camano and Pixy kits :)

JESTER

[T. Lyttle]

Ah, Dodgson the mechanical magician, from the days when radios only had 5 channels, and innovation was king...

I still have some of the bits from a Camano, bellcranks, of which there could be many.

I saw many of Dodgson's models fly in the 70s, all good, and in the hands of Brightbill, simply great.

You will not be disappointed with any of his models, just don 't expect 21st century performance, too much time has gone by.

[Dave Moore]

While it would be interesting to know what model I have, I am more interested in the history and in the variety of designs that Bob Dodgson produced.

Do I take it, then, that there is no web-based depository of Dodgson data? Is his legacy relegated to aural history?

Dave Moore

[webguyjv]

As I mentioned in my earlier message, there is a guy listed in one of these very RCGroups threads -- a guy that OWNS all of Dodgson's designs.

THAT GUY may be able to sell you copies or get information to you. Here is the thread that mentioned how to contact him...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15118&highlight=camano

As for Dodgson's designs being in the public domain -- I can't imagine that happening. That would be like if you were the designer/manufacturer of the Moth or the Nemesis, and you decided to post your plans on the Internet. You would quickly lose all of your selling potential. Further, people that might own a plane like that, and might post copies of the plans on the Internet are running the risk of litigation based on copyright and/or patent issues.

I know that plans for planes like the P-38, the DC-3, the Me-163, etc... may be available, but those are in the public domain, in that there are repositories that make three-view drawings available, and scratch builders regularly use simple diagrams like that, to make their own scale plans, and build their planes. That type of situation is very different from a commercially-sold RC model.

Look at that thread above and contact that guy if you want more info. I think he's your best lead.

Happy Flying ;-)

Webguyjv

[webguyjv]

http://www.rmsadenver.com/DodgsonNewsletters.htm

Happy Flying ;-)

Webguyjv

[Dave Moore]

webguyjv,

I agree with your analysis of public domain plans, and I have no desire to find such details that might compromise Dodgosn's rights to his plans. I am just curious about what he designed.

How many models? What sizes? What were their names? What made them special for their time?

My intentions are strictly intellectual. How can the products from a man who is such a talented designer and nearly mythical status just disappear?

I took a brief glance at the newsletters and they look promising, although a little verbose.

I will do as you suggest and contact the guy you directed me to.

Still and all, is this the last source of information on Bob Dodgson's airplanes?

[webguyjv]

I guess it's because I didn't start flying in the thermal duration genre -- I had never knew of Dodgson Designs. I picked up that Camano Kit on a lark.

Since then, I have heard of many flyers that are in the TD genre, that all know of Dodgson, and all say amazing things about him.

I fly inthe SLope Soaring genre, and there are a few huge players that names are basically "household words" -- Joe Wurts, Pat Bowman, etc... I know personally of one guy that reminds me of DOdgson -- Dave Sanders of Dave's Aircraft Works (DAW). It seems he recently stopped building EPP kits. This really bums me out as I love his planes (I have four of them now), and I've met SO many people that feel the same way.

I can only guess that it's very possible that in 2014 or thereabouts, there will only be a small group of flyers that remember DAW, since his deisgns are his, only those kit builders that have kept the plans will know how to build new ones, and DAW designs might fade into history.

I think the only thing that keeps these lagacies alive is the ardent work of collectors that keep planes in mint condition, create Web sites containing historical information, etc... I don't know how many of the contemporary kitbuilders will be lucky enough to have these historians document their legacies 20 years down the road.

I hope you find the info. you 're looking for. I think you're on the right track.

Happy Flying ;-)

JV

[flyingdogtwo]

Few articles here, too.

http://www.rmsadenver.com/

[thepilotbruss]

Here is a picture af a Saratoga Windsong. It's for sale for $100 bucks locally. Sacramento area. It's a great light lift machine but the flaps flutter at high speed due to the under cambered foil. 134 inch span. I'll try to find my plans for it and get back to you with more information. It has an interesting taco shell fuse.

[jester1a]

Bruss, check out this link:EBay item (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3170757693&category=2563) . They're worth more than you think. Bob always designed innovative planes that are far outlasting his interest in producing kits in a cottage industry setting unfortunately.

JESTER

[jester1a]

By the way, i'm very envious of your flying site!

JESTER

[T. Lyttle]

Yeah, nice site, really nice.

As far as flutter is concerned, I would suppose that camber may have something to do with it, but I suggest that linkage slack and lack of balance may have more. I saw a Dodgson model blow a large number of hinged parts (ailerons, flaps, etc) at the end of a dive, and the noise was really frightening, and a later check showed the horns and wires allowed a lot of movement. Remember, this is in the days of limited radio technology, when servos were 4x the size they are now, channels were limited, and radio weights (servos!) and accuracy were truly outrageous by today's standards.

Modern radios cure nearly all of the difficulties with Dodgson designs, guaranteed.

[SPasierb]

Here here! The Dodgson planes we're well ahead of their time. Good condition birds still bring good $! A computer radio is essential to realize their full potential. As for the flap flutter, don't lay it off on the airfoil -- tight, slop-free linkages are essential. May also want to look at the hinge area to see if it's a tight as possible. I've heard the taco-shell fuses called a lot of things, but never "interesting." Enjoy!

[thepilotbruss]

I did away with the linkages in the fuse and used standard servos in the flaps. The flap linkages are as tight as possible. The flaps will flutter at the ends even if the part on the horn is not fluttering (flap twist). This is due to under cambering and HUGE flap surfaces that are sheeted and not glassed. I was told by a few people that have flown this model that no matter what you do the flaps will flutter (asside from glassing the flaps). The good news is that it only does it above 50-80 mph approx.
The flying site is Vacaville Ca. Picture taken in spring time.
A fellow at the last Banos aero tow gave the plane to me. I spent a bit of time fixing it up. That's why it's so cheap. Well... it's also had a fairly rough life too. Anyway thanks stranger for giving it to me.
Still looking for my plans......

Dave, If you do find more information on Bob Dodgsons designs please post it here. I'm as interested as you are.:)

[RD Blakeslee]

Bob Dodgson did two versions of Promo VCR for his firm, Dodgson Designs. I have both, along with a partially-completed Windsong Silver, one of the last kits he put together before he quit and went to work for Boeing. I've turned the kit over to my son, pullin-gs, for completion.

These tapes are practically autobigraphical. If anybody knows Bob, and could get his permission, They could be duplicated on DVDs.

The tapes contain construction details and flying footage of all of Bob's designs, and their evolution from the early mechanical differential linkages, up through CPU radios. There's also some "family pics" footage, here and there.

Background music is classic '50s with Bob's voice-over commetary. The commentary implicitly develops his model sailplane theory.

- RD

[Dave Moore]

RD,

I, for one would love to have access to the Dodgson tapes.
Please, is anyone in contact with Bob to ask his permission?

Dave

[RD Blakeslee]

Dave,

The following URL will tell you how to ask about Bob on an RC Soaring email exchange which is the most widely-followed that I know of:

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/lists/index.asp

Good luck!

RD (Dave) blakeslee.

(With aplogies to those who've seen the line before: All Daves are above average)

[fprintf]

Man, when you said it was a light lift machine you weren't kidding! There is hardly a ripple on that lake below your picture!

[pchart]

Help,
I am looking for a set of plans for th K-Minnow by Dodgson Designs.
I got a kit and it looks complete but the plans are missing.
ANY INFO of where I can get my hands on the plans would be much apreciated.
Thanks,
Phil

[ka7cse]

Dave,

Do you have a picture of the plane you own so we can ID it for you????

[capt soap]

I have a brand new saber canopy,unused. $15.00 plus shipping. Lee

[Dave Moore]

capt soap,

I would like to buy your Sabre canopy.
Do you do PayPal?

Dave Moore

[kloz]

Pchart, I have a K-Minnow kit that I could copy the plans for you.......
Ken

[TThroop]

I have one of the infamous taco shell fuselage from a Windsong for sale. The fuselage is built and in good condition. I am not sure if I have the canopy for it, but everything else is complete. It is painted red and I can provide pictures for the interested party. I want $50.00 plus shipping from San Diego CA.

Terry Throop :D

[rcsoar4fun]

RD-
Are you sure there were only two videos made? I have seen several different variations of the main one with the pivot/pixie/camano/lovesong series. I also have a version with camano 100, k-minnow, etc. Interesting stuff, fun to watch.

Kristopher

[DLD]

I recommend that you contact Shawn Lenci, he has all of Dodgson Designs molds, plans, etc. He is a personal friend of Bob Dodgson, and has always flown Bob's designs. I flew with him for many years. His email is lenci1938eAaol.com.

David Layne