Electric combat

[TheRings]

I have made a generic design intended to be used in combat. I am looking to use a speed 400 engine I may go brushless if I can talk the other combatant into it. The design will have a 34" wingspan and be of foam construction. Here is my question, two parts. One can a speed 400 plane of light construction pull a streamer? I indend to pass cray paper throught a paper shredder to make very low drag streamers. Second what makes a good combat plane? I see most are short with lots of wing.

Thanks Tom

[sheepy]

I have not heard of anyone flying AMA or RCCA combat using electrics. If you were going to fly scale combat, a sp400 would be at a huge disadvantage right up front due to speed. Most scale combat ships are probably doing 60mph, and are heavily armored. I could see where you might get OK performance out of one of the GWS type of warbirds, and the size is about 1/12 scale, but the speed would be way less, and the durability would be nill compared to the slimers. RCCA has a slower class of open combat called SSC(slow survivable combat) with a .15 engine limit, and 8x3 prop requirement with 17500 rpm max. I suppose you might be able to find an electric that could turn those rpms, but it might be expensive. Currently though, SSC does not have a provision for electric. If you have no interest in flying rulebook combat, you could build what you want, and get your friends to do the same, and you would have a blast. RCCA open '1/2A' combat uses 20 foot streamers instead of 30' streamers, but there is very little activity in 1/2a rc combat.

[slamson]

i'm with sheepy. if you want to fly electric combat, you probably have to start with a clean slate. not try to conform to one of the existing classes.

a speed 400 is cheap, but i don't know if it is the best choice for electric combat.

i think what ever you do it should be geared so you can swing a bigger prop for a slower speed.

the trick is to keep wing loading low, so you have a good flying plane with pretty slow speeds. that way when you have a mid-air you will have less carnage.

therings, what part of vermont are you from? i'm originally from springfield but have relocated to sunny florida.

slamson

[TheRings]

Thanks for your input. I was not clear on my intentions for electric combat. I was planning informal combat among some friends just flying electric 400's. In Vermont I don't think we have many if any combat pilots. I just thought if a speed 400 could get in the air with a streamer it would deliver "leisurely" combat on a budget. Slamson, I am in Quechee VT just north of Sprinfield. We have just over a foot of snow on the ground and its be rather mild for several weeks.

[1 Flight Wonder]

Yes, you should be able to tow a streamer just fine. We fly quite a bit of combat with GWS warbirds with the geared 300's. It is all informal and we do it at our own private field and have a ball.
Midairs are a little ugly but foam safe ca is a wonder worker.

I take the same streamers we use in slimer combat , tie um on and get after it.

Good luck and have fun!!

Wonder

[skippy hop hop]

the best aircraft i have found for combat is the s&b Komet standard cheap equipment tons of strength tons of performance but most of all tons of fun:)

[skippy hop hop]

what i ment by that was physical combat

[skippy hop hop]

rules of combat
1. Objective
To recreate the excitement of aerial combat in enjoyable, safe competition that will be interesting for spectators and challenging for the contestants.

2. General Information
All AMA and FCC regulations covering the R/C flier, his plane and equipment shall apply to this event, except as noted herein. There shall be no limitation on the number of controls. The contestant shall be allowed only one (1) model per round, but may switch to an alternate model of his choice for any following rounds. The builder-of-the-model rule does not apply for this event. All models flown must be safety inspected by the Contest Director or a CD appointed representative prior to competition.

2.1 Consideration of safety for spectators, contest personnel, and contestants is of the utmost importance for this event. Any conduct by a contestant deemed by the CD to be hazardous will be cause for immediate disqualification of the contestant from the event at the discretion of the CD.

2.2 Consumption of alcoholic beverages will not be allowed on site during a contest. Any pilot or official who consumes alcoholic beverages during the official hours of a contest shall be removed from the competition.

3. Model Aircraft Requirements
3.1 The model must be an all foam combat slope glider.

3.2 The maximum allowable wing span shall be 49 inches.

3.3 Wings shall have a plastic foam leading edge at least 1 1/2 inches wide, measured chordwise, at any point on the wing. The wing leading edges may be covered with film covering material, vinyl tape, fiber reinforced vinyl tape or any combination of the three. Wood, metal, solid plastic, carbon fiber, kevlar or any resin impregnated fiber material on or in the wing leading edges will not be permitted.

3.4 Wing spars of any non-metallic material are permitted, provided they do not violate the provisions of item 3.3 above (more than 1 1/2 inches away from leading edge at any point along the span). Maximum total cross sectional area for spars shall not exceed 3/4 sq.in. Moveable control surfaces at the wing trailing edge (ailerons) will not be considered a part of the total spar cross section.

3.5 The fuselage may have longerons provided their total cross-sectional area does not exceed 1/2 sq.in. area. The fuselage may be covered with film covering material, vinyl tape, fiber reinforced vinyl tape or any combination of the three. Wood, metal, solid plastic, carbon fiber, kevlar or any resin impregnated fiber covering material on the fuselage will not be permitted.

3.6 A maximum flying weight of 3 pounds shall be in effect.

3.7 No plane shall posses any form of thrust power. Engines, electric motors, compressed gas or chemical propellants are prohibited.

4. Contest Rules
4.1 Contest Site
4.1.1 The combat box shall consist of the maximum usable length of the slope and it's lift band with the pilots and judges located in the normal pilot's area for the particular site. Spectators must be at least 30 feet behind the edge of the slope . Any pilot whose aircraft crosses the spectator line will receive no score in, and be disqualified from, that round.

4.1.2 The CD shall determine if lift is adequate for competition and may interrupt competition at the conclusion of any round until lift improves and he or she determines that competition may commence.

4.2 Contest Structure
4.2.1 Individual. A group of three (3) to ten (10) aircraft will be flown against each other in two (2) non-elimination rounds. After each pilot has had the opportunity to compete in two (2) rounds, the scores will be totaled, with the six (6) highest scoring contestants, still capable of competing, advancing to the final round. The top three scores of the final round are the winner and runner-ups of the contest.

In the case of a point tie in the final round, the total of the first two (2) rounds will be used to determine the winner of the tie. If this also results in a tie, the tied pilots will duel to the last flying in a round of unlimited length to determine the winner (fly-off).

4.2.2 Team. In team competition, a team, consisting of four (4) pilots and one (1) team manager, will be separated into two (2) pairs of two (2) pilots. Both of the pairs will compete separately with similar (2) pilot pairs from the other teams. The total points from all four (4) pilots during both rounds will be combined to determine the top three (3) scoring teams. The two (2) highest scoring pilots from each of the top three (3) teams will compete in the final round. The team with the highest total score throughout the competition is the winner.

4.3 Launching
Aircraft must be launched by hand. dollies, wheels, or catapults are prohibited. Every contestant is allowed the use of one (1) helper to assist in launching his model.

4.4 Round Duration
Each round shall consist of ten (10) minutes after the first aircraft is airborne. If a contestant crashes at any time during the round, an unlimited number of relaunches are allowed within the ten (10) minutes, provided the aircraft is down in an area which allows it's safe retrieval. No repairs may be made until after the conclusion of the round.

4.5 Change of Aircraft
During a round, no change of aircraft is allowed for any reason. In between rounds, the contestant may freely choose from any aircraft available to him.

4.6 Interround Safety Inspection
. The CD may, at his or her discretion, reinspect any aircraft that he or she suspects may have been made unsafe for flight during an earlier round. If the CD pronounces that aircraft as unsafe, it will not be used for later rounds. The pilot of the aircraft removed may make field repairs and resubmit the aircraft to the CD for inspection. The CD is obligated to inspect an aircraft resubmitted for safety inspection as soon as the aircraft is presented to him or her. If it passes inspection, the airplane is immediately available for use. The judgment of the CD on safety matters cannot be protested.

5. Contest Officials
5.1 Judges. There will be one (1) judge for each aircraft flown. Fellow pilots may act as judges, and will be rotated each round so that any one judge will not judge the same individual more than once. Additionally, there shall be a CD for each event. Each aircraft's judge will register points gained by the aircraft being judged, according to Section 6. The judge will report the score to the scoring personnel at the end of the round. Determinations of judges shall be considered final and may not be protested. The individual judge scoring any plane confirmed as having crossed the spectator line by themselves or any other judge is to inform the pilot of his disqualification for that round and have him land immediately, and the pilot will score zero (0) for the round, regardless of accrued score to that point.

5.2 Contest Director. The CD or his or her representative will check each aircraft for conformance to size & safety requirements, use the start signal when the first aircraft is airborne, and use the end signal at the end of ten (10) minutes flight time. The CD or his or her appointed scoring personnel shall also tally scores from the judges for each individual (or group) in the competition.

6. Scoring
6.1 Points are scored by causing the opponent's plane to strike the ground and cease flight after a mid-air collision (a kill). No matter who initiates the engagement, the plane that remains flying after such an event shall gain one point.

6.2 Mid-air collisions that do not result in an aircraft striking the ground and ceasing to continue flight (a kill), will net no score for either pilot.

6.3 Kills shall be verified in one of two ways by the victorious pilot of an engagement:

a.) The victorious pilot must be able to execute a single, 360 degree roll and return to normal flight.

b.) The victorious pilot must be able to execute a single 360 degree loop and return to normal flight.

EXAMPLE:

If two aircraft engage, and both crash, without either of the above verification maneuvers being executed, no score will be gained by either pilot.

6.4 The post-kill verification maneuver must be performed prior to continuing on to the next engagement or being killed by an opposing pilot.

[skippy hop hop]

a lot more to combat than you would think ay

[DaMar Concept]

I thought this thread was about Electric Combat, not unpowered, slope soaring, fly-it-until-complete-destruction, intended-midair-collision combat. How much skill does it take to destroy ones airplane? Why not fly it for a while and then dive it directly into the planet and count the number of pieces? The pilot with the most (or maybe least) pieces wins.

[Viper2000]

foam bounces :p

I think that in electric combat for foam wings the rules are the same except you have an electric motor instead of a slope... It'd probably be advisable to select a motor class to keep things sane (eg sp400). Makes a change from streamers I guess. I especially like the "verification maneuvers" :D

[Ryan Archer]

Are You Going To Use Epp Foam?

[2dogrc]

You might want to think about using a 350 motor with a C gearbox. We have beenusing those on our WWII combat planes for about a year. They weigh in at about 8-10 oz built wiht everything and battery. 2 cell lipoys work best 750-1350 for weight and time ! Those combat rules posted abouve are crazy! If you want to fly combat inyour local club make them up our self!
We use these rules:

Must be WWII airplane (mainly for looks)
Must have a GWS 350 or similar motor, any gearbox allowed
2 cell batt ONLY (keeps the planes in close!)
30" wing or less

More detail in irone's threads.

2dogrc
2dogrc.com

[jacksat]

Rings:
I fly a combatwings xe-2 with a stock speed 400 motor. I have pulled streamers, and have no problem hitting 50+ mph on a stock 7 cell 1500 nicad pack. My mini xe will do over 90 mph with a speed 400 motor. If you build a scale combat ship from EPP I would like to the specs and plans.

[2dogrc]

Rings:
I fly a combatwings xe-2 with a stock speed 400 motor. I have pulled streamers, and have no problem hitting 50+ mph on a stock 7 cell 1500 nicad pack. My mini xe will do over 90 mph with a speed 400 motor. If you build a scale combat ship from EPP I would like to the specs and plans.

My plans have a wingspan of 28". They weigh in around 2 oz just foam, and 8-10 oz complete with motor and battery! i don;t have plans, but pics on 2dogrc.com. I will have video up shortly!
2dogrc

[2dogrc]

Video added!
http://www.2dogrc.com/Website%20pics/2dogrc_low.wmv

[Icoman]

deleted

[dleviner]

You'd be surprised what a little Blucore foam from HomeDepot will allow a bunch of grown men to do... even the ones that are active in the gasser combat arena.

It's a fairly long thread but worth the read so you can absorb any lessons we learned in the process. Several designs have been tried and proven in this thread.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484238