Who has the cheapest Hi-starts?

[amike_321]

Who has the cheapest highstarts now? Its for a Gentle Lady , 78" wing span. I was checking out the ones Hobby Lobby sell.

[LWThompson]

Hobby Lobby makes a good histart. You can find a less expensive one by Dynaflight. Check Omni's web site. You may wish to buy a better brand and use it longer. I have the Dynaflight "heavy duty" but leave it in the Jeep when my friend has his Hobby Lobby with him.;)

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

mike,
i have a Pinnacle Standard Hi-start. i have hade it for about a year,used i maby a dozen times. it should be just right for a 2 meter glider.
i paid 79.95 for it from Northeast Sail and will sell it for 65.00 shiping pre paid.
i'll put up a picture if you are intrested.
Charlie

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

mike,
if you look down about 5 threads from yours under " what kind of histart for a gental lady" you will see the Pinnacle mentioned there.
charlie

[Ollie]

There are the cheapest in first cost and then there is the cheapest in the long run and the cheapest for a given launch height.

By far, the cheapest from a longevity and performance point of view are the mandrel dipped rubber histarts from Aerofoam. See:
http://www.aerofoam.com/

[Morgoth]

i see it's expensive though..

why wouldn't you take a fishing line 0.7 size..measure 100 meters if it's a big plane..if its about 2 meters cut 70 meters and connect the hawk..and go flying..with somebody else..so he would hold the line..while you're handling the controllers..

in a 4 knots..he would need to make two steps and the plane is over your head..

[nm5s]

I've owned a few different and the Pinnacle had the shortest life of them all for me.

[ISoar]

Originally posted by Ollie
There are the cheapest in first cost and then there is the cheapest in the long run and the cheapest for a given launch height.

By far, the cheapest from a longevity and performance point of view are the mandrel dipped rubber histarts from Aerofoam. See:
http://www.aerofoam.com/ I'll second that :) My 2m "Hose Monster" from Aerofoam is the best hi-start I've ever owned. Typically the yellow tubing ones last 1 season before they start to crack. The Hose Monster is going to see a 2nd season, and probably 5 or more!

Worth every penny!.

[CactusJackSlade]

My Dynaflite lasted exactly one season, the UV must have destroyed the natural latex tubing...

I bough a nice one from AeroFoam and yes, expensive, but yes worth it!

Here it is in action... the streamers are because I left my parachute at home...

http://hobiehawk.com/SuperHawk/SHhiStart2B.jpg

CJS

[BrianRickman]

The Bungee hi-starts at Hobby Lobby are quite cheap and should be more UV resistant then regular surgical tubing hi-starts. I have the "Standard" one and it works resonably well. Launched my 2M Spirit nicely (36 ounces) until I destroyed it in a crash. Launched my 2M Gentle Foamy (40 ounces) rather well too. I've since recovered the GF to reduce weight to 35 ounces, but have not had a chance to fly it at that weight yet.

I understand that this type of hi-start does not stretch as far as surgical tubing and therefore will not launch your glider as high, but I was getting at least 2 minutes of "dead air" time per launch with the Spirit, so it's plenty good enough to get started with.

http://hobby-lobby.com/histart.htm

As for hand towing using a runner and a length of fishing line, that should work fine too, as long as your launcher has plenty of energy...give the kids something to do :).

[aeajr]

Here is a great link for understanding hi-starts if you are just learning about them.

http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~learmont/HiStart.html

I have a Great Planes Spirit 2 meter. Similar in size and weight to a Gentle Lady.

I have two hi-starts. A Pinnacle X Large (edit originally said standard) from NE Sailplanes and one that I made myself. The Pinnacle is really much stronger than required for the Spirit/gentle lady, but it works very well. The launchs are just a little bit more powerful than you would get with a 5/16 dynaflite type hi-start.

My friend has the Dynaflite and it does a very nice, relaxed but effective launch of his Spirit 2 meter. I am a little distressed to hear people say that they only last one season. Hope he gets more life out of it than that.

I also have a home made up-start, but could just as easily have made it longer.

This one is a home made up-start with 25' of 7/16" black latex surgical tubing (1/16 wall) that I bought on e-bay. ($15) It is really stronger than what I need for this plane. I added 100 feet of pink mason's line that I bought at home depot ($2) I made the
parachute out of a pink golf hat. ($0 had it) Add a spike, couple of 2 1.5" rings and a couple of snaps, $5 so it cost me $22 to make it. I later put it on a reel that cost $5, but that is not required.

If you can make the parachute, making your own is probably the cheapest route. Or pick up a used one, as offered above. I have members of my club with 5 year old pinnacles and they launch 3 meter planes with them.

Hope this is useful info.

For anyone who might be reading this who is interested in gliders/sailplanes but not flying them yet, you might find this thread of value:
http://lisf.proboards13.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1070740602

[mmartin55]

I was just doing some research to locate a manufacturer of high quality carbon black uv inhibited pure latex rubber tubing to assemble into hi-starts and came across this thread in my search results.

No matter the quality of the tubing you are using store them in a cool place and keep them bagged in a dark color protective covering of some kind and limit the amount of exposure to UV while on the field. If you are not going to use the start for a while, pile it up at the stake and drop it back in the bag until lunch is over.

Also keep it clean, don't let people walk on it, and don't overstretch it. With these extra precautions, even an inexpensive one with a golf hat for a parachute should last for a long time.

Tom
http://www.lightfastgraphics.com/schweizer_126.html[URL]

[saint152]

OK....you said the cheapest! I have been using one of these for 5 years now without any problems at all! Flew a Gentle lady, Sohisticated Lady, Spirit, Alpha Sky Runner, and even my good ol' Multiplex Alpha Junior with an 83" wingspan and over 2.5 lbs.

Handled all of them with no problems.....It's been about a year since I've used the highstart (too many electric and slope planes!)but I think I'll be building full house Spirit Elite just so that I can get back into the pure art of flying again~

Heres the link! only $20
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/115401.asp

The only change that I made was to use a red cord reeler that I got from Home Depot for about 5 bucks!

Hope this helps!

[saint152]

Heres the cord real that I use.....it's actually $8..

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=Products_2%2fElectrical%2fExtension+Cords+% 26+Reels%2fCords%3a+Specialty+%26+Appliance&BV_SessionID=@@@@0989482957.1079994014@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccladckmmididfcgelceffdfgidgkj.0&MID=9876

[mmartin55]

Nice link to the pressure washer at Home Depot dot com. Great way to keep your halo clean :-).

What you are showing is the lower-cost, lower-altitude bungie launcher which is a nylon mantel over rubber bands. This will only produce about half the altitude and half the flight duration as the standard hi-start with 100 feet of rubber tube stretched to 500 feet plus an additional 100 feet of nylon cord or line.

They work though, and are an inexpensive alternative if you do not have to search far for thermals.

Tom Martin

[saint152]

Opps....the pressure washer does keep me clean!....lol

I know the quality of this highstart isn't the greatest....but I have caught many thermals with flights of over an hour using this thing.

Heres the pic of the reel:

[mmartin55]

Nice clean reel. Hey I',m formerly CA now MO too. What part are you located in?

Can you get me a good price on 100 qty of those plastic reels.... I think I need to be at about $5.00 wholesale ???? Plus I need a good dark nylon bag to stuff it all in for transport and storage. Can you find me some of those too :-) ????

I'll try to put together some good pricing for complete hi-starts and just components to upgrade or replace the tubing on starts. I am looking at a list of bulk pricing for 5000 foot reels of the high quality carbon black uv inhibited mandrel dipped tubing right now.

Looking at what's out there I would tend to think $15 for a parachute is a little high. I think I'll just recycle old golf caps too. Where do you tie on the line?

Tom Martin
http://www.lightfastgraphics.com/schweizer_126.html

[Sparky Paul]

I just picked up a new hi-start on Saturday; this one uses a bungee cord instead of the surgical tubing my last one had.. (I'd thought that one had rotted to uselessness.)
The bungee works well, but I also found the older one, 12 or so years old, and it still has it.
I mounted my Aiptek camera on my modified GL to see if I could get good shots of the line when it's slinging the plane up.. Got some images, but nothing exceptional.. here's the best...
The bungee anchor is out of the frame at the top of the photo.

[BMatthews]

That's a wicked shot Sparky. :cool:

[aeajr]

Originally posted by saint152
OK....you said the cheapest! I have been using one of these for 5 years now without any problems at all! Flew a Gentle lady, Sohisticated Lady, Spirit, Alpha Sky Runner, and even my good ol' Multiplex Alpha Junior with an 83" wingspan and over 2.5 lbs.

Handled all of them with no problems.....It's been about a year since I've used the highstart (too many electric and slope planes!)but I think I'll be building full house Spirit Elite just so that I can get back into the pure art of flying again~

Heres the link! only $20
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/115401.asp

The only change that I made was to use a red cord reeler that I got from Home Depot for about 5 bucks!

Hope this helps!

There are no specs given for that launcher. How long is the elastic and how long is the line?

[saint152]

aeajr

Hmmmm....I really never measured ... I would say that you get about 100 ft of bungy cord....and about 150-200ft of nylon cord. It does not come with a parachute but it does have some streamers that work well. Also comes with some metal rings to mount on each side.

I am surprised on how well the bungy has stood up after all of these years.......I did however replace the nylon cord with another 250-300ft that I bought at home depot.

oh....and it comes with 2 metal stakes....1 for the bungy and one at the end of the line ...I did replace the main metal stake with a heavy duty plastic tent stake that I already had....

I woud really advise that anyone who gets one of these make sure that you have the mounting stake into the ground REALY REALY well.... pound that sucker down with a hammer all the way in!!!! I remeber I had a painfull experience that I will never forget!!!!!! at full stretch....the thin metal stake came out of the ground and whizzed right through my pant leg (jeans)....and yes.......i mean right through!!!!! slapped my leg narrowly missing going directly into my leg......and left a HUGE bruise and welt that lasted for about 2 weeks! flet like I got shot in the calf with a gun!!! thats why I replaced it with a thicker tent stake! Havent had that problem since!

seriously.....I have gotten some great launches with this thing! has been worth every penny and then some!

[saint152]

Originally posted by Sparky Paul
I just picked up a new hi-start on Saturday; this one uses a bungee cord instead of the surgical tubing my last one had.. (I'd thought that one had rotted to uselessness.)
The bungee works well, but I also found the older one, 12 or so years old, and it still has it.
I mounted my Aiptek camera on my modified GL to see if I could get good shots of the line when it's slinging the plane up.. Got some images, but nothing exceptional.. here's the best...
The bungee anchor is out of the frame at the top of the photo.

Nice pic there Sparky!

Ahhhh...... I remember when I used to fly out in the poppy fields off of avenue N out there in Palmdale/Lancaster and slope fly out by the aquaduct!! and out in the desert by Lockheed Martin..... I miss that place!! Thermals everywhere you fly out there!!!!! :D Only thing I don't miss is the rattlesnakes you would have to watch out for as you went to retrieve your high start line!.......lol

[nm5s]

I have owned and used that type and found it vastly inferior to the silicon tubing variety. I am quite surprised by the positive comments about that type. I'll stick with silicon tubing. For me the old adage, "you get what you pay for" holds true.

[saint152]

Originally posted by nm5s
I have owned and used that type and found it vastly inferior to the silicon tubing variety. I am quite surprised by the positive comments about that type. I'll stick with silicon tubing. For me the old adage, "you get what you pay for" holds true.

I have launched off of standard silicone high starts before and yes they are great!

But I think the title of the thread says "CHEAPEST"

and for $20 and after 5 years of use hmmmmm $4 a year doesnt sound too bad!

[Sparky Paul]

Originally posted by saint152
Nice pic there Sparky!

Ahhhh...... I remember when I used to fly out in the poppy fields off of avenue N out there in Palmdale/Lancaster and slope fly out by the aquaduct!! and out in the desert by Lockheed Martin..... I miss that place!! Thermals everywhere you fly out there!!!!! :D Only thing I don't miss is the rattlesnakes you would have to watch out for as you went to retrieve your high start line!.......lol
.
The thermals Sunday were both too high to get to, and so low they couldn't be avoided!:)
Flying the Spirt Elite it couldn't get up to where the ravens were flying, but the next flight on the GL picked up one at 50 feet, and went up to the visibility limit in 12 minutes.. :D
The only snakes I've -seen- when flying are California Kings and Bull Snakes.. but I've -heard- the rattlers when sloping. THAT gets you attention!.
Here's the GL mod just before leaving the towline at full extension..

[aeajr]

I think hi-starts are so much fun!

[LWThompson]

Dynaflight has one that is "inexpensive". I bought one and it is natural rubber. Nice even pull.

[mmartin55]

You guys bring back memories.

I never flew with you guys but maybe once out near the poppy fields at J just past 90th W was my recollection. I did fly a lot of slope at P and 30th along the aqueduct around '75, now all houses, and at the "eagle's nest" above Palmdale reservoir w. of the freeway and at "cardiac" right above Vincent up at the junction of hwy 135 around the '80-82! Once I think I acutally went out to the buttes at the poppy park and flew.

Those were the days. I can't find a slope anywhere here in KC MO. Although farmer down the street is going to get visit soon. There is a little micro slope 2 miles from the house that is promising. Got to finish the 1-26.

Check out the stuff I got at http://www.lightfastgraphics.com/schweizer_126.html
I used to draw rockets for the Air Force at Phillips Lab EAFB, now I make sailplanes take flight from computer to sky.

Also to stay in the thread - getting some really good quality mandrel dipped black hi-start rubber samples. Anyone care to send some specs - ID, wall thickness, ring size, line strength, diameter and length, parachute color and diameter, stake length and type, reel or storage bag, etc. I'll make two to that spec no charge. How about one west coast, one to the east for evaluation? Lets keep it simple and say for a 78-100 inch span 32-48 ouncer or competition.

Tom Martin

[saint152]

mmartin55
LOL!!!!! I used to fly off of 30th and ave P!!! I lived right down the street!!!

Small world!!:D

Where do you slope at now???

Not too many slopes here in Kansas City! I go to the local lakes and slope the dams until the rangers come and kick me out!.....lol....

Wish there were more places to go that where closer... Wilson lake is probably the most descent one near here but that still like 2 hrs away!

[mmartin55]

Lets get together and fly one of the dams or go hi-start out at 175th and Lone Elm where KC Soaring and Electric flies.

Hey I checked out the Bayco reel you show above in the thread at ACE Hardware last night for winding my hi-starts but I opted for the little H shaped cord wrapper for 2 bucks that I found from the same mfg.

I found a guy with all the canopy molds for the old Sterling line of sailplanes so were just fuselages away from complete ready to assemble and finish kits!!!

When are you going to buy your plans from me and which one are you going to build? I'll deliver them no shipping charge!!!!

I lived over by the college and later out at 50th and L in Quartz Hill right on the SW corner.

Tom

[Sparky Paul]

Originally posted by saint152
mmartin55
LOL!!!!! I used to fly off of 30th and ave P!!! I lived right down the street!!!

Small world!!:D

Where do you slope at now???

Not too many slopes here in Kansas City! I go to the local lakes and slope the dams until the rangers come and kick me out!.....lol....

Wish there were more places to go that where closer... Wilson lake is probably the most descent one near here but that still like 2 hrs away!
.
There's a small slope on the east side of Sierra Highway where it splits off from Pearblossom Highway and heads into the main metropolitan area of greater Palmdale.
We have real sidewalks and gangs now! :)
The slope is about 100 yards long, about 75 feet high. Wind comes down the gully from the crest of the hill where 14 goes thru. I've measured speeds there ovr 45 mph! It's about 2 miles from the crest of Vincent where the DS guys go zippity!!
I had a TD plane up yesterday, with an altimeter watch.. got to 860 feet up, about 500 feet -ahead- of the crest of the slope. Wind about 15 mph or so.
From 185 miles up... (from Global Explorer)

[mmartin55]

Any old slope in pinch. We sat on the face of Vincent just off the highway below the towers and sloped all day long in the late 70s with ASW 15s and 17s, Katies, Coyotes, Divine Winds, Challengers, Hobie Hawks, etc..... great days! Its official hill name is "Cardiac".

Want a great E wind Santa Anna hill. Drive up 10th W til it winds up the hill to the crest of the mountain and on the left about 70% to the crest is (or was) a small pad cleared called the "Eagle's Nest". Great for easterlies and what a view.

Tom

[Sparky Paul]

There's big bux mansions up there now, and "private road" signs... I stop at those things. :(
With all the mountains around the AV, you'd think there's at least one good hill for easterly's, but I haven't found one yet.
Up top at Vincent the slopes aren't wide enough for a sloper with an east wind, but a slermaller can get out and go up nicely.
Forecast today is 50 mph from the west!

[mmartin55]

It always said "Private Road". Just means that they're snobs and think that'll keep the gang-bangers away cause that road accesses the fire trails -county and state operated - and I think national forest land too plus about 100 homes. Just ask permission at the nearest home and tell them you are AMA insured? and a great guy. I'm sure they'll say "can I come and watch?"

Tom

....Don't mean to be a snob myself,

They pay to maintain the road and have rights to treat it as so. That's why its always best to use good judgement and courtesy. We flew around and over the big bux real estate for years and years and never a complaint or an incident. We didn't block the road, we didn't hot road and screech tires and we flew in groups of three or four at a time.

[aeajr]

I use a cord reel simlilar to the one in the picture on the previous page. Works great. Very fast for picking up my hi-start. I wrap the rubber first, then the line. This way, when I lay it out at the start of a flying day, I pick where I want to start the strecth from then roll the hi-start out and stake it in the ground. I leave the reel by the stake at the end of the rubber to help me better allign my launch with the stake.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

I use a large coffee can. Wrap the chute up into a ball and put it in the can. Put the plastic lid on to hold the line in place. Wrap the line around the outside of the can. When you get to the rubber coil it in one hand into small loops. Have to do this a few times stuffing the accumulation into the can (lid is put on the bottom during this) as you go. Put lid on over the rubber. Holds the line in place too as it goes in/out of the can.

I tie a loop in the rubber at the anchor end and use a small round nail pulling crow bar to stake the rubber to the ground. The loop goes under the hook end as it's pounded snug to the ground.

The coffee can I'm using is from the early 70's. Painted it orange. I've had to replace the lid a few times. Keep some "in stock".

[aeajr]

OK....you said the cheapest! I have been using one of these for 5 years now without any problems at all! Flew a Gentle lady, Sohisticated Lady, Spirit, Alpha Sky Runner, and even my good ol' Multiplex Alpha Junior with an 83" wingspan and over 2.5 lbs.

Handled all of them with no problems.....It's been about a year since I've used the highstart (too many electric and slope planes!)but I think I'll be building full house Spirit Elite just so that I can get back into the pure art of flying again~

Heres the link! only $20
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/115401.asp

The only change that I made was to use a red cord reeler that I got from Home Depot for about 5 bucks!

Hope this helps!

I looked at this one but there are no specs as to length. What does it include. They tell you nothing!

[mmartin55]

Looks like from the picture it includes the bungee, cord wrap reel, nylon line and two stakes. Probably only 25 feet of bungee. Cord is inconsequential since you can buy nylon mason's line at Ace Hardware for $2.

Tom

[nuevo]

what are you launching. Those cheap ones are not worth it. If you are likely to keep your histart several years, buy the rubber separate and buy your own string & rings. I recommend braided, not twisted string. For a hi-start, split rings are fine. Use welded rings if you like. Get a extension chord reel at a hardware store for $5 to wind it up.

I used to have one of those cheap 25' sets. You quickly tire of 30 second flights from those low launches.

I made my hi-start 8 years ago, and still have it. I even made my own chute, that is now being used on my winch.

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

I will sell you my Pinnacle standard from NE sail for $50.00 + shipping. used about 20 times.
Charlie

[aeajr]

Looks like from the picture it includes the bungee, cord wrap reel, nylon line and two stakes. Probably only 25 feet of bungee. Cord is inconsequential since you can buy nylon mason's line at Ace Hardware for $2.

Tom

If it is only 25 feet of bungee then I would not call it a hi-start. To me that is an upstart which is a practice launcher. They are useful and I have an up-start in addition to my hi-start. I loan it to new sailplane pilots so they can practice launch and land with something a little smaller.

I would not recommend this to anyone as their regular launcher unless they have a very small field. Even then I would say find a larger field, or fly electric as the launches will be too low to enjoy unless thermals are very strong and abundant which is a situation we don't normally see at our field.

Might be good if you want to add a hook to a hand launch glider, assuming it can take the force of the launch.

[joje]

What size rubber would be appropriate as a HI-Start for a GP Spirit 100" ? Anyone?

Joje

[aeajr]

The thickness of the rubber and its strength depends on the make-up of the rubber and the thickenss of the walls.

For latex surgical tubing the range would probably be in the 5/16" to 3/8" size. You can go stronger but I would not go softer than 5/16.

I would recommend the NESail Large which would be good for this plane and the three meter plane you will probably have after it. - About $85 complete package
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=874

My second choice would be the NESail Standard $80
This would give a softer but still a good launch. I am confident it will launch most 3M planes just fine with a little breeze.
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=875

This would be the budget recommendation. It will launch the 100 inch plane and is rated up to 120" wing. Having used one for a 2M plane I would not recommend it for a 3M plane, though some might disagree. $60
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE636&P=7

My observation is that it is better to be a little on the strong side then on the soft side. A stronger hi-start will still give you good launches in calm conditions. You will get great launches with a little breeze and may be able to add more line if you have the room.

Don't be concerned about it being too strong, I launch my 2M Spirit off a NESail X-Large! No problems. Have also launched Gentle Ladies with it, so the planes can take a stronger hi-start just fine and we get great launches, even in calm conditions.

Are you new to sailplanes and Hi-starts? If you are you might find this article helpful:

Learning to use a hi-start:
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=52

[jkeppeler]

I make my own. You can buy surgical tubing from a medical supply store, and traided nylon string from a hardware store. Works great! Joel

[jkeppeler]

I make my own. You can buy surgical tubing from a medical supply store, and braided nylon string from a hardware store. Works great! Joel

[aeajr]

Jkeppler,

I take it you made two. Ha Ha!

[joje]

The thickness of the rubber and its strength depends on the make-up of the rubber and the thickenss of the walls.

For latex surgical tubing the range would probably be in the 5/16" to 3/8" size. You can go stronger but I would not go softer than 5/16.
...........

Are you new to sailplanes and Hi-starts? If you are you might find this article helpful:

Learning to use a hi-start:
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=52

Thanks, very good links, must helpful!!!!!!
:) :) :)

Joje

[apage]

The original poster asked for recommendations for a high start suitable for a Gentle Lady. 3/8" tubing is way, way too strong and heavy for a Gentle Lady.

I often see/hear such advice, but one thing that is often not pointed out is that the sailplane must lift the weight of the rubber tubing. Any excess diameter is going to rob you of potential launch height.

The right size is the smallest one that will take the sailplane to a height where the high start appears, from the launcher's vantage point, to be vertical at release.

You want to be able to stretch the tubing to it's maximum pull, about 3x rest length. If you do this with 3/8" tubing, you will probably destroy a GL. If you stretch it a lesser distance, then the tubing is too large for two reasons.

One, the weight issue.

Two, consider that the longer the stretch and the smaller the tubing cross section, the longer time you will be on tow. High starts are not slingshots, they are more analagous to kite strings (or freeflight towlines). When you let the sailplane lift itself over a longer time period with a lighter, more gentle high start, you will get higher launches with less stress on the wing.

Time and time again, I see beginners buy high starts that are too strong, and they think they are getting great launches, but they are just rocketing up to a couple hundred feet at a breakneck speed. Again, it is not a bungee, it is a towline.

My little 1/4" (5/16".. can't remember) Dynaflight natural latex tubing (100' tubing, 350ish' braided kite line) stretched roughly 3x will take a Gentle Lady up quite well.

Until recently I've always used the natural latex, such as the old Craft Air or Airtronics, or the Dynaflight. When I needed a larger one a few years ago I bought a red one. Hated it. Way too snappy - gave up all its energy very quickly. Sold it and bought a Hosemonster (the black ones) - much better, a more even release of energy.

[aeajr]

apage,

Dynaflite makes a 3/16 rated for up to 72" and a 5/16 HD rated up to 120 inches. The dynaflite HD is what I usually recommend for 2M pilots on a budget. However if the pilot plans to go to a 3M plane within a year, I usually suggest they consider 3/8" NE Sail large which is 3/8". Very popular at our sailplane club.

You are right that the pull will be shorter and the launch stronger but I have to say that my Spirit has done very well off of 1/2 inch. I would not recommed 1/2" to anyone but all the club guys to told me I would break the wings have been amazed. And this is the RTF Spirit Select, not a specially reinforced plane.

On some days I have outlaunched the winches, except for the zoom of the expert flyers. And I get very good launches in calm air. I pull back about 150 feet to about a 12 pound pull.

Spirits, Gentle ladies, Cirrus and other 2m have launched off this hi-start many times with excellent results.

The point is that the plane can take the launch if the pilot wants to go up a size in prep for the next step. I do not dispute that the 5/16 or even a 1/4" will launch a GL.

[apage]

I don't think my point was understood, but that's life. Perhaps the person who asked the original question will get it. That was my motivation for posting in the first place.

[aeajr]

The original poster asked for recommendations for a high start suitable for a Gentle Lady. 3/8" tubing is way, way too strong and heavy for a Gentle Lady.


The original post and thread stopped in March. This was picked up again when a question was asked about a Spirit 100.

[apage]

Yes, I see the Spirit 100 question now. I was more referring to this:

Posted by aeajr:
I have a Great Planes Spirit 2 meter. Similar in size and weight to a Gentle Lady.

I have two hi-starts. A Pinnacle X Large (edit originally said standard) from NE Sailplanes and one that I made myself. The Pinnacle is really much stronger than required for the Spirit/gentle lady, but it works very well. The launchs are just a little bit more powerful than you would get with a 5/16 dynaflite type hi-start.

I suppose "works very well", or my own "take a Gentle Lady up quite well" are just too subjective to be understood in an online forum. Based on my experience with hi starts since the mid 1970's, this setup (Pinnacle XL / GL) would work poorly, but apparently it provides a style of launch that you find acceptable. To each his own.

[aeajr]

I think most of the opions expressed on these forums are subjective. Unless you are stating a fact like "it weighs exactly 29 ounces" you re expressing opinions and opinions, by nature, are subjective.

[windsox]

I am planning on building a thermal tailess delta akin to the boomer or red herring for use with an upstart or hight start. This thing proably will not weigh much more than 10 -14 oz with a 48 inch span. Any ideas about a suitable high start configuration?

[aeajr]

I am planning on building a thermal tailess delta akin to the boomer or red herring for use with an upstart or hight start. This thing proably will not weigh much more than 10 -14 oz with a 48 inch span. Any ideas about a suitable high start configuration?

Clearly you should go to a lighter hi-start so as to not stress the frame and to get a smoother release of energy. I would say 1/8" OD to 3/16" OD latex tubing should serve you well. Try a 3-1 line to rubber ratio then adjust more or less line based on how it launches. Use a very light line or something like 10 pound test monofilement.

Tower hobbies sells an up-start and a hi-start in that range from dynaflite. I Think hobby-lobby has one too.

If you also fly a 2M plane you might go as strong as a 5/16" OD but I would not go any stronger than that.

I have seen wings launched off light bungee for rocket fast launches at low levels, then hit the up for a fast climb. I don't know your plane, so I am not sure if that would be appropriate for that wing. Is it EPP or built-up?

[windsox]

like a boomer /red herring or weasel. but with longer span and higher aspect ratio. I am trying to strike a balance between a slope ship and a thermal glider, tilting towards thermal performance over slope. I am not looking to do "zoom launch aerobatics" rather be able to get it "way up there" for flat field thermaling. I have very large fields available to me so, 50 -100 foot of rubber plus 2-300 feet of briaded line?





Clearly you should go to a lighter hi-start so as to not stress the frame and to get a smoother release of energy. I would say 1/8" OD to 3/16" OD latex tubing should serve you well. Try a 3-1 line to rubber ratio then adjust more or less line based on how it launches. Use a very light line or something like 10 pound test monofilement.

Tower hobbies sells an up-start and a hi-start in that range from dynaflite. I Think hobby-lobby has one too.

If you also fly a 2M plane you might go as strong as a 5/16" OD but I would not go any stronger than that.

I have seen wings launched off light bungee for rocket fast launches at low levels, then hit the up for a fast climb. I don't know your plane, so I am not sure if that would be appropriate for that wing. Is it EPP or built-up?

[aeajr]

If you are going to do zoom launch then try it with equal line to rubber and see how you do with that. I have seen very high powered zooms done with no line at all.

Line is cheap, so get the hi-start and experiment. Set your hook well forward of the CG so you don't climb as much and get much higher speed.

I have a ZAGI slope wing. I put a hook on the bottom about 1" infront of the CG and launched it off my 1/2 inch rubber hi-start. After a bunch of launches the plane was coming off the line too fast. We figured out that it was so light it would hold the parachute closed, so we rubber banded the parachute and got much higher launches, but it still does not stay on the line long enough. Still playing with it.

However this is with 400 feet of line and rubber that is too strong. The weight of the line is holding it back, I think. The wing weighs about 20 oz.

I may try it with about 20 feet of 1/8" bungee and about 20 feet of line. I will launch it fairly flat, then go UP as it comes off the line. It might work better with the hook more forward for more speed and less climb till I hit the up elevator.

Not really trying to thermal it. Just playing around to see what it will do, but if I can get it high enough, I may do some thermal hunting and see what happens.

This is really a slope plane, so I am just playing around with it since there is not much slope flying in the summertime where I live. The slopes face north and we don't see much north wind in the summer.