Launching a 3 metre on a histart by yourself?

[Peter Young]

Hi

I am looking to buy a histart for my 3 metre Stepp 3, but I wondered how realistic it is to launch this plane by myself. I know I am not confident yet to toss this plane into the air by myself, but does this confidence come with time?

Thanks

Peter

[mattg]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you have launched a few times with someone else doing the honours then you should be alright. The only time it isn't so good to launch yourself is when you have a model that isn't yet trimmed properly. Otherwise just give some airspeed by throwing it up rather than letting it go.

I think you'll be pretty confident as soon as you do it. Just remember to turn the model on and check the surfaces before hooking it up to the bungee;)

[Ollie]

The Step III doesn't look like it has a very high wing loading so it should be easy to launch. The main requirements are that the plane be launched with the wings level and it must be up to flying speed before it leaves your hand.

As mattg mentioned, it is best to have the plane well trimmed before the first high start launch. This is best done on a slope but hand gliding on flat ground is an acceptable way to get the plane trimmed.

The tow hook has to be in a safe location or the plane could be pulled into a stall. The tow hook should be at or a little ahead of the CG. If the plane starts to veer during launch, a touch of down elevator should be applied to get it out of a possible stalled attitude before applying the corrective rudder command.

[Peter Young]

Thanks - I've had it up a few times with others launching. It's just a bit of a handful. I fly mode 1 (rudder on right stick) and someone suggested launching left handed so I could have a hand on the rudder in case it starts to veer off course. I guess the prospect of throwing a 3 metre plane with one hand (my left hand - I'm right handed) is a bit daunting.

Should I launch right handed, or with both hands (tx on a neck strap)?

Thanks

Peter

[Peter Young]

Here's a video of my plane going up:

video (http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/daytimeyoga/stepp3.wmv)

[Jack Hyde]

Your plane does not need to be a "handfull" during launch. The best thing you can do is get it trimmed and set up for a nice conservative launch before you fly it alone. The tendency to be unstable on launch may be the hook is a little too far aft. Why not move it 1/8" forward.? The worst can happen is the launch will not reach max height. You can always move it back and all it costs is a few minutes of your time. The good part is it may go up with scarcely a bit of pilot input.
And yes, it will all seem second nature after you do a few dozen launches. Almost anyone can fly a well setup plane. It takes a good flier to fly a poorly setup plane. But inexperienced fliers aren't likely to produce a good setup, hence problems. Get help setting it up and save many hours repairing.

[viti]

no problem

i taught myself how to fly back on the slopes in the eighties,i knew nobody at all and i also fly mode 1

i picked mode 1 becuase i thought it was better to throw with my right and have pitch control in my left

have faith that provided your wings are level when you throw that very little roll will take place with-in the first few seconds anyway,besides pitch is more important in the event that the nose pops up followed by a pop off leaving you stalled


in my opion you are at an advantage flying mode 1 for highstarts

polywing gliders also track very nice if trimmed properly if the proper speed is maintaned,,just dont let that nose get up!

. dont throw that puppy with your left hand ,i doult you will even get the wings level at least i cant:D

another tip is to adjust the length of your rudder stick as tall as you can so its eazyer to find with your right hand after launching,,practise with a throw stick to be able to do this with ease

viti;)

[viti]

i was told before that if you practise with a throw stick ,use a heavy one becuase its hard to chuck a heavy stick and it encourages you to get the speed up but more important,follow threw with your throw while mantaining the proper nose angle,,if nothing more it builds confidence;)

viti

[Jack Hyde]

After looking at your video it doesn't look like the hook is too far aft. The plane didn't overrotate and get too steep. It went up fine. THe strong pull and toss are a lot to deal with but you will get used to it. Try 20 launches with assistance before you go solo. I agree with suggestions to throw with your dominant hand, Many bad launches result from a crooked throw. My worst was when visiting a huge sailplane club I got hit by a gust that rotated the plane just as I was throwing, the tail hit me hard in the head, knocked the v-tail off, the plane went up the line and came down in a crash . It was embarrassing, hurt, and broke the fuse. And I threw with my left hand 'cause I am left handed.

[BMatthews]

From much of what I've seen most of the sudden veering at launch is caused by two things.

The model is not held close enough to level or is thrown off to the side at an angle but continues in it's path safely until corrected.

The second is when the fellow launching does not put enough OOMPH into it and the model sags and starts to stall on the line and then achieves flying speed but pointed at an angle due to the momentary hesitation. The second one is not as bad as a full stall and snap but it's a sign that an S&S isn't far away.

And finally in a heavy wind you may opt to have someone with two hands do the launching until you learn into it. Or have the second person just steady a wingtip in the crotch of two fingers so they aren't actually gripping the wing. You want to have the model fully extended down and behind you for this one. I've seen it done that way but it COULD get messy if the people didn't know what they were doing as a team.

[Peter Young]

Thanks - this is all very helpful. I think the plane is trimmed fine, and the hook seems well positioned. So - one handed rather than two? I guess the risk of fumbling to find the tx is too great?

Peter

[aeajr]

Peter,

All the advice given above, by those more knowledgable than I, seems right on the money. Your video launchs are beautiful, so I don't see why you are concerned.

I belong to a glider club. We have 4 winches, but occasionally we have a day when there is no winch at the field, so out come the hi-starts to launch two meter and three meter ships all day long. They all get launched off of the hi-starts.

I understand that there have been 3 meter scale planes launched off of hi-starts from our field, though I have never seen it. Some of these planes weigh in the 12-18 pound range, so you can't really throw them. They use a side mount "saddle" to launch those planes off the ground with the winches. I guess they do the same off the hi-starts.

I am interested in the specs of the hi-start being used. Also, how much wind was there that day. Clearly if the hi-start is not strong enough, and there is no wind to help, then the plane will struggle going up, especiall if the angle is too steep. In the video, for those conditions, that hi-start and those throws looked great.

Where I have seen people faulter is when there is very little wind. The wind helps increase the apparent air speed of the plane as it leaves your hand and tends to create more of a kite effect helping the plane to climb, even on a relatively weak hi-start. A 5 mph head wind makes a huge difference launching, especially with a larger heavier plane that has higher wing loading.

Give the same launch effort in calm air on a weak hi-start and the plane may not be able to reach speed as easily from the combination of your throw and the pull of the hi-start.

The hi-start that I see used at our field for 3 meter planes is the NE Sailplanes Standard which has 1/2" OD tubing and 3/32 walls. In fact that is what I use for my two meter Spirit. they said if I planned to move on to larger planes later, that is the one I should get, so I did.

It is way overkill for the Spirit, but I have seen it take up 3 meter ships on a calm day with no trouble at all. And I have to say that I lack for nothing against the winches launching my Spirit. I go just as high as they do and I don't have to pull back as far to get the the launch power I want.

Just make sure you have a strong enough hi-start, a strong and level throw and you should be fine.

[aeajr]

I forgot to ask, are you concerned that the plane is too heavy for you to handle by yourself from a single hand throw? That could certainly be an issue. If that is the case, I have seen dollys used for scale planes during aerotows.

I don't see any reason why that could not work for a hi-start. My one concern would be whether it could be kept stright enough on a grass field. It is an idea, if you are concerned about being able to throw the plane.

Can anyone comment on this?

[ejett]

I have launched a Spirit 100 and an Airtronics Legend from a NSP Standard high start as well as an NSP Dove. I find that it is not all that difficult by yourself if the wind is not very high, but the Legend is heavy and both the Legend and the Spirit 100 have a lot of wing area and can be a real handful in a stiffer breeze.

I am currently launching a Dynaflite BOT ARF off of a Aerofoam high start without any problems without any assistance, but I stay home (or don't fly) if the wind is above 12mph (and I don't have a launch assitant) due to the difficulty of handling the plane with one hand and the Tx with the other.

Looking at the Stepp 3 in the video, I would think that it is relatively light and should be easy to handle by yourself in good conditions.

Be sure to develop a prelaunch checklist and check the radio BEFORE you hook up. Make sure the surfaces move. Launching by yourself just adds to the things you have to do.

Ed Jett

[nuevo]

Peter,

What a beautiful video, and a well behaved plane! Have a great time with it. Thanks for sharing with us.

I have looked into this plane before. I wish it were easily available in the U.S.

[Peter Young]

Thanks - I guess my concern is the awkwardness of a fairly light 3 metre plane. In any breeze it is hard to hold straight in one hand - the big wings exert a lot of twist if a gust catches underneath, and holding the fuse with one hand makes this twist harder to handle.

I suspect this is just an issue of practice. Right now I am still getting used to just handling these huge wings.

I'd feel a lot more confident using both hands to toss it straight (that's me tossing the plane in the first launch on the video, while a friend flies it so nicely). Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I'll go ahead and order the hosemonster histart , but I'll get a lot more launches under my belt at the club before trying a solo launch.

Peter

[aeajr]

To help with the grip, you might put some 400-600 grit sand paper on the spot where you would grip it. That might give you a more confident grip for those gusty launches.

And, if it takes two to launch it, that's OK, flying is more fun with company.

[aeajr]

I took a look at the hosemonster line of hi-starts. I have never seen dimmension like these. They don't seem to use surgical tubing. They are using something else that has very thick walls.

Rubber

2 meter 1/8"ID x 1/16" wall x 100' with connectors $55.00
2 meter rubber in 2- 50ft. sections with connectors $65.00
2 meter 1/8"ID x 1/16" wall x 50' with connectors $35.00

Comp 2 meter 1/8"ID x 3/32"wall x 100' with connectors $65.00
Comp 2 meter rubber in 2-50ft. sections with connectors $75.00
Comp 2 meter 1/8" ID x 3/32"wall x 50' with connectors $40.00

3 meter 1/8"ID x 1/8"wall x 100' with connectors $75.00
3 meter rubber in 2-50ft. sections with connectors $85.00
3 meter rubber in 1-50ft. section with connectors $40.00

Unlimited (4 meter) 1/8"ID x 5/32" wall x 100' with connectors $90.00
Unlimited (4 meter) in 2-50ft. sections with connectors $98.00
Unlimited (4 meter) in 1-50ft. section with connectors $58.00

I presume this is powerful stuff.

[nuevo]

If you launch in a cross wind, yes, the plane is very difficult to hold. First, try to always line up the hi-start into the wind.

If this is not practical, due to field layout, I always hold the upwind wingtip a little lower than the downwind tip. This helps prevent the wind from getting under the tip. Both before and after the throw.

Best wishes on many future flights.

If not in a cross-wind, I always launch with one hand. A cross wind is another matter. I suggest having a friend help, and dropping one wingtip a little. Maybe 10-15 degree roll total.

[Peter Young]

Thanks for all the good suggestions - keep them coming. I was going to get the 3 metre in 2 x 50 foot sections. Any other options I should consider?

[aeajr]

How large is the field. Looked pretty big on the video.

Why would you get the rubber in 50 foot sections? Then you have to join them. Why not just get 100' section. If you have to cut it for some reason, you can cut it to the lengths you need. Say, for instance, you wanted a 25' piece for an up-start practice launcher and 75' for you hi-start.

Besides, it costs more to buy it in 50' sections. Get the 100'.

[Peter Young]

I'm buying a histart for use in other fields - the club has one set up that I can use when visiting, but I was wanting to be self-sufficient in terms of flying at other fields. The 2 x 50' seemed more flexible...

[portfoxdesign]

Peter
This is what i do when the wind or thermal is blowing at the plane is a little hard to handle. Get yourself a neck strap, i think you had one when i was watching you fly the other day.
Hold one hand behind the wings and the other hand in front of the wings to level her up. Give the model a good throw forward to get it to gain air speed. The i quickly grab the rudder stick, then the elevator stick.
Even if the model moves either way, i have time to correct it as the wind moving over the rudder is giving it a high movement rate as per no wind over the surface of the rudder.
I always launch into the wind as best as i can.
If you are down at Redbank on thurs, drop me an email and i'll drop down again for and hour or so and show you what i mean. Its fairly simple to do, just the nerves are right up there when you first have a go at it. I can fully understand as i was shaking the first time i threw mine, I as far as i can remember, i was still shaking after the model landed.
Its all the fun of it.

Steve

[mattg]

One thing to try might be to hook up the plane to the bungee before you pull it back. The tension on the line can help damp the rolling action of the gusts. Of course if you do loose your grip then you're off!

Try to keep your arm and the plane close to your body so you don't need as much strength to hold the wings level or take the tension of the line. Use a neckstrap and have two hands on the glider until you are ready to launch.

Don't be afraid to do some rehearsals without tension on the line so you know which way you will turn to make sure your TX aerial and other sundries are out of the way when your at your launch spot. The less time you spend ready to launch the less will go wrong.

[Peter Young]

Thanks Steve and Mattg - I'll probably not get to Redbank this Thursday, but I will take you up on your offer of help.

[aeajr]

Peter,

This thread has been very interesting to me. Currently I am launching 2 meter planes that weight in the 30-36 oz range, However I have a three meter Airtroncis Legend that I purchased recently from a club member. I have not launched it or even hand thrown it yet.

I think that plane may be heavier than yours, but I will have to deal with the same issues you are discussing. All that wing and gusts and the weight of the plane. It is probably in the 60-70 oz range with 10-11 oz wing loading.

I had not thought about any of this until I joined this thread.

[macr]

Just for interest:
My Stepp 3 (http://www.rebelflyingclub.com/gliders_archive.htm#stepp)
I concur with the fact that the Stepp 3 can be a handful, whilst holding it for launch. It is an old design and is known for its ability to not come down. With its big wing section, any whiff of lift and it goes and goes. You definitely need spoilers with this baby.
I flew mine for the first time at a comp and each time I skied out. Unfortunately due to inexperience I also lost the tailplane on descent. I have just fixed it recently and am starting to enjoy it again. It is a real pussy on a winch and can launch it with hands off the sticks, as it is that stable.
I haven't tried bungee, though.

[ejett]

Peter:

You will be happy with the Aerofoam 3m Hosemaster. That is what I am currently using. You can store more energy in that rubber than the NSP rubber I had been using. The two piece setup on the highstart is a good idea because you can use both sections for a longer field and half of it for shorter fields. I have my high start on the reel with the first half of the line on the reel first, then the rubber - both sections hooked together back to back, then the other section of the line. This lets me unroll the highstart for a short field without any unnecessary fiddling with the high start (I fly a small field much more often than a large field). If I want to use the whole thing, I have to add the section of line to the end after I unroll the rest of the high start; a little bit of extra work.

I think you will be set up very nicely.


Aerjr:

The Legend can be quite a handful because it is a pretty heavy plane. I have not launched mine yet on the hosemaster bungee. Here again, the higher the wind at the field the more unruly this issue becomes. In 5-10 mph, it should not be too bad, but be sure you have plenty of stretch in the rubber for the Legend.

[Peter Young]

Macr - nice looking plane. I'm very jealous of your thermal achievements - can't wait to get that big lift under my plane.

I'm glad I'm not the only one challenged by launching a 3 metre sailplane unassisted. I guess the message for me from this thread is to practice with help first, and be cautious in windy conditions.

[macr]

Thanx. I will need to get more photos, since it has been repaired. :)

[mattg]

Hi Macr,
I'm visiting my dad up at Lemon Tree Passage this weekend and thought I might stop in at the club on Saturday afternoon.

Is it likely the winch will be out with others flying gliders? I will probably bring an electric fuse as well but it would be good to catch up with other glider guys.

[macr]

Well I hope so. I will have my electric and thermal gliders out as that is all that I own. Obviously this will depend on weather. If you have a slopie then bring that as well. Once again depends on weather.
More info can be found at
http://www.rebelflyingclub.com/
Hope to see you.

[mattg]

Hope to see you then. I've been up once before and reckon it's a great site. I couldn't understand why so many of the guys insisted on putting oily little diesels on top of their gliders though.
I met someone there who had a design that was similar to a Stepp3. I think it was a (John Stevens?) kit.

[aeajr]

Originally posted by ejett
Peter:

Aerjr:

The Legend can be quite a handful because it is a pretty heavy plane. I have not launched mine yet on the hosemaster bungee. Here again, the higher the wind at the field the more unruly this issue becomes. In 5-10 mph, it should not be too bad, but be sure you have plenty of stretch in the rubber for the Legend.

Thanks for the tip. I got the stronger hi-start in anticipation of moving to a larger plane. I knew it would be bigger and heavier, but I am a big guy. 6'2", 250 lbs. What I didn't think about was all that wing in the breeze.

After reading the comments here I will be very careful. The first launches will be with someone else working the sticks.

[macr]

Originally posted by mattg
Hope to see you then. I've been up once before and reckon it's a great site. I couldn't understand why so many of the guys insisted on putting oily little diesels on top of their gliders though.
I met someone there who had a design that was similar to a Stepp3. I think it was a (John Stevens?) kit.

You would mean John Stevens (http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/amusement/cards/45/) but specifically the Eliminator 134 (http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/amusement/cards/45/therm.htm). This is a very good glider and is very competitve in RES class. It is a bit of a handful, when it comes to tip stalling, so I believe. You would of spoken to either Tom Tobin or Paul Collins (He has a beard).

[T. Lyttle]

You guys are gonna hate this...

I flew a 100" Oly 11 for years, winches and histarts. Once the model was trimmed to "perfection", I would set the trims, carry the model & tx while I stretched the rubber (model in front of me, walking away from peg); one final check, lay tx on the ground, turn around, and launch. Once the model was on its way, pickup tx, and make final trim adjustments. With a large gasbag model, you would be amazed at how much time you have before disaster is even imminent; so you get a popoff, landing practice, and another walk, ain't that why you are there? What's the rush? Soon I found that eve a slightly crosswind launch would result in the mode simply kiting off to make its own adjustments, then resume launch profile.

You're asking yourself, what does he mean "had"? No, it didn't crash; I sold it in a move after flying it for ~12 years...

Think kite, guys, kites show you how really easy it can be!

[Peter Young]

sounds great - that's the relaxation I want from gliding!

I think I may have been permanently damaged after watching a nice little Thunder Tiger 2m glider go sideways right after letting go on the histart - the guy had full rudder to try to correct but it wasn't enough. The plane was soon a pile of balsa. Still makes me shudder to think of it....imagining my beautiful 3 metre plane smashed to smitherines....gotta go lie down now.

Peter

[aeajr]

Peter,

There is an element in the unknown and the danger of any flying. The take-off and landing are the most dangerous parts of the flight. So the heart races, the blood surges and you let go. For the next 10 seconds, anything can happen, and when it doesn't and your plane just floats off the line, it is wonderful.

But you can't get the high without the rush. I love the rush!

Where is my hi-start and plane. I gotta fly!

[mattg]

Thanks for the link to John Steven's planes Macr. An Eliminator 100 looks like a good project for me. Something as big as 3 metres wouldn't go too well on our club bungees.

Let us know how you get on Peter, expecting to hear of a big jump in confidence soon.

[macr]

The only thing wrong with the Eliminator is the cost. They are a beautiful glider and well designed, but the cost is fairly steep for the whole. Just looking at the pricing and if you went for the plan, ribs and CF joiners then it wouldn't be that bad.

[T. Lyttle]

Two quick corrections that you should practice to prevent the Rubble Syndrome ala that TT: first is full down, it "unstalls" everything including (it sounds like) a completely blanked rudder, other is full up, generating a popoff. Also sounds like the guy went for broke(!); I always cheat with a couple of wimpy, straight-out launches just to see if everything is right. Towhook position is vital, first flights should be as far forward as practical, don't be greedy on your first launches, and SLOWLY move the hook back until it starts to look squirrelly. And watch that CG! It, too, should be at the forward limit to start, then moved on subsequent flights. Also sounds like there wasn't enough (or any) washout on the wings, another "must" for good launches.

The Oly was almost contemptible: as well as the tx-on-the-ground launches, if I was feeling lazy I would just pull the highstart back until there was a balance between lift and pull, then just let go, sometimes with only 10 paces. The model would just kite on the wind, even stall (not back quite enough!), then I would just zigzag it back and forth on the wind until I got the height I wanted. On a good day (LOTS of thermals) I would sometimes popoff on purpose at 700' directly overhead and watch the chute go screamiing back down the field 'til the rubber went slack...

[aeajr]

Peter, how is the flying going?

Any problems with the launches?

[Peter Young]

Hi aeajr - not much flying lately (uni has been hectic for a change). Last time I flew I put the Stepp 3 up on a whinch. Now I'm sold - what a great way to get height. I had my best flight ever in very marginal conditions. Must get back to it.

Peter

[aeajr]

That's great news.

Winches are great tools. Now you have two ways to get your plane in the air!

[fprintf]

This was a good thread to resurrect and so appropriate with my first 3M plane on the way soon.

[aeajr]

fprintf, I could say I was thinking of you, but I just thought it was a good tread.

[portfoxdesign]

Peter
Ditch the Histart, cost too much. I got hold of some g-shock 5mm @ 20 meters (AUD$30) and then added my 60 meters of 80lbs fishing line (Free). launch's the ricochet very nicely and Mafu's zipper wing bloody outstanding.
Mafu had some video footage of it, not sure if has posted it yet though.
His little ziper once let go shot across the ground at about 6 foot like a sub sonic jet, then went vertical up to about 100feet.
I thought launching the rico was fun, we laughed that hard, as well as sun stroke our stomachs were killing us.
If you have a weeekend that you are flying, come out to Mango hill, The school there has put in a new field. outstanding!
Its on the road between the bruce hwy redcliffe exit and the rothwell roundabout.

Steve

[aeajr]

This video I have to see. Post a link please!

[Peter Young]

Thanks Steve - sounds good. I thought the shock cord would be too sudden for the Stepp 3? There's some guys launching wings in our local park on shock cord and it's like a slingshot - they blast away but I reckon my wings would part company with the fuse about half way along....

[portfoxdesign]

Aeajr - here you go http://mobrien.rchomepage.com/zipper/zipperbungee.wmv

Peter
The first part of the launch is a liitle quick, but you compensate with a little down elevator, once you are past the 'flex' bit you let her climb out.

Steve

[fprintf]

Somehow after watching that video I don't think the bungee would be powerful enough to launch a 3 meter plane to any heights. It launches that wing (maybe 20-30 ounces?) well enough, although not to 3M thermal hunting height (unless you are Joe Wurts and can catch a thermal with a 70 oz 3M icon at 5 feet).

(plus it may be fun but 15 second flights would be frustrating to me after a while!)

[aeajr]

That is a zip line launch, not a hi-start launch. The difference is that it depends on extreme speed to gain height.

As fprintf said, wouldn't do much for a sailplane. But fun to watch none the less.

[portfoxdesign]

Sorry, i did forget to mention that we took off the 60 meters of fishing line for the zipper launch.
My 2.5M Albatross gets about 150 feet out of the launch 'usually'.
From there i have had it almost out of site numerous times.
I guess its a matter of preference and $$'s. This bungee gets me out of trouble for the time being.
Besides, I think i'd rather spend the $200 + on parts for a winch.

Steve

[aeajr]

Don't know about prices in Brisbane, in US, a hi-start costs between $50 and $100 and puts the planes 400+ feet in the air.

[portfoxdesign]

Aeajr
Wow, thats a good price, i priced them about 3 months ago and anywhere from $200 up to $300, dam rip off if you ask me.
I guy should probably try to find a second hand one from the US.

Cheers

[aeajr]

Here is my 3M Legend (about 80 ounces) that I launched for the first time off my hi-start. I thought it was a NESail Standard. Turns out it is the XLarge which will launch small cars.

Took this baby up to winch height in nearly calm air.

[fprintf]

I think you will find, aeajr, that with practice a histart launch doesn't even come close to a good winch launch. I am always impressed to see our local fliers get 100 - 200 feet higher with the zoom than they would otherwise get.

In any event, it sounds great! I find that when there is zero wind (e.g. calm) that the histart just doesn't work at all. 2 mph of wind seems to be a minimum to get any height, and I think we had similar wind this weekend. It doesn't matter how strong the histart is, if the plane floats off the top then the launch wasn't good. I had a few of those this weekend and they are annoying as heck, especially after expending the muscle energy to pull the darn thing all the way back.

Anyway, back on topic - launching a 3M on a histart was relatively easy. Apart from 4 extra paces (8 steps) of pull and myself triple checking the radio each time and making sure I gave a pretty stiff throw, the launch was the same as my 2M foamie.

[aeajr]

You are right about the zoom. The winch is definately better for that. I can zoom off the end of the launch, but not as effective as a well timed winch zoom with a hot pedal.

I will go back to mastering the winch after the ESL event. It was becoming too much of a distraction from the flying.

[ejett]

aeajr:

Now that you've had a chance to fly the Legend, what do you think of it?

EJ

[ejett]

Deleted

[aeajr]

With only 5 flights on the Legend at my own hands I would say that it is pretty stable and smooth. I had it up in some lift, but I was really more focused on getting used to the plane. I have never flown ailerons or flaps before. A much different feel from the 2M RES planes I have been flying.

I think I will come to like it a lot. Right now launching, stable smooth flight and safe, controlled landings are my focus. Later I will get into more precision landings and work on my thermalling more once I feel comfortable with the Legend.

Now that I know how well it launches off my hi-start, I can get in a lot more practice. I am not ready to winch it and I won't be dependent on others to take it up for me.

I am not sure a jump from floater 2M to a heavy 3M was the best jump. Might have benefited from a hop on a 100" full house midweight first or a 3M RES, but I have no basis for that, really. I am still only a little over a year into this and some 150+ sailplane flights along with 200 parkflyer flights. Lots to learn. Skills to hone. Fun to be had on every visit to the field.

Now I am thinking of adding a 54-60 inch e-glider to the hanger, for fun short notice, short duration thermaling. Something I can keep in the car and launch from a small field. The Ascent has caught my eye. The Easy Star looks interesting. Perhaps something a little larger. Not sure.

I want every plane to be different. Each its own experience.

Having so much fun!

[stephen.s1]

Now I am thinking of adding a 54-60 inch e-glider to the hanger, for fun short notice, short duration thermaling. Something I can keep in the car and launch from a small field. Having so much fun!

Don't forget hand launch. Just you, the glider, and your transmitter.

[aeajr]

You read my mind. Hand launch has crossed my mind as well, but I really don't know much about them. I have hand thrown a 2M Spirit, Sagitta 600 and 3M Airtronics Legend to do balance tests. But to launch like that time after time seems like too much work. I would rather set-up the hi-start and get the plane higher where I have a better chance of catching something.

Enlighten me about HLG. You have my attention.

[aeajr]

For anyone interested, this link goes to an article on Learning to Use a Hi-Start to Launch Sailplanes. It is complete with photos and instructions on how to make your own hi-start. http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=52

[2motheus]

You read my mind. Hand launch has crossed my mind as well, but I really don't know much about them. I have hand thrown a 2M Spirit, Sagitta 600 and 3M Airtronics Legend to do balance tests. But to launch like that time after time seems like too much work. I would rather set-up the hi-start and get the plane higher where I have a better chance of catching something.

Enlighten me about HLG. You have my attention.

aeajr, try a HLG and put a hook on the belly. That's my plan... I will be able to hand launch, or use a small high-start made from a string of #64 rubber bands and fishing line.

I'm building a Chrysallis from djaerotech, with the two-piece wing option. I hope the 2-piece wing gives me the flexibility/transportability you mentioned. (This is not a dlg, but pretty reasonable cost.)

[aeajr]

I am still considering that HLG. How did the Chrysallis come out?

How did that rubber band hi-start work. That really interestes me.

[Kestrel]

Hi,

HLG is probably my next venture in sailplanes. Eliminates the set up hassle etc. Without spending a lot of $ to get started, two considerations are the Fling and the Gambler. Both are recently reviewed on this site. Fling is an ARF, the Gambler is built up. Both look decent. Fling comes with a small hi start.

[2motheus]

I am still considering that HLG. How did the Chrysallis come out?

How did that rubber band hi-start work. That really interestes me.

Chrysalis:
Turned out pretty well - all-up-weight (with Hitech electron 6, HS-55s, 400 mah NiMH batteries, monokote) of 9.9 ounces. Picture of plane and helpers attached.
I built a standard tail, thinking it would be better than a v-tail for instructing my 5-yr-old in the principles of flight. This added a little weight. Even with pull-pull controls I have a bit of weight in the nose.
Speaking of pull-pull, I had some problems early on with the spyderwire (braided fishing line) stretching, and I suspect the controls don't return exactly to neutral. I would suggest using non-stretch line (kevlar?) or use solid rod.
I'm glad I used monokote even though it's heavier than other coverings. It takes more abuse, and as the designers say, adds stiffness to the wing.
I'm pretty pleased with the flight characteristics. I'm doing circles at altitudes formerly reserved for final approach only.
I'm also pleased that with the plane's lightness. It's pretty immune to damage on imperfect landings. As long as I can slow it down, I can put it into a bush with no concerns. It even survives cartwheels as long as the tail feathers don't take a direct hit.
Launching:
I'm pleased with how high I can go with a javelin launch, but I imagine that my good health and 6' 8" arms have something to do with that. I guess I can get about 70' into a breeze. However, as others have noted, even a young man's shoulder can only take so much. I recommend starting slow and working up to things. If this is a concern, I would start with the Gambler +.
I've only done a few mini high-start launches. This was with a unit from skybench, but I think it's a little strong for the plane. I also need to try it with my tow hook moved back a bit. I would like to eventually try something a little lighter and with longer line.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask for more details.

Tim

[aeajr]

Thanks for the report on the plane.

I guess the rubberband hi-start didn't really work out.

I like your helpers. Good to see you have a complete pit crew to help you keep the plane in tip top shape!

[2motheus]

Thanks for the report on the plane.

I guess the rubberband hi-start didn't really work out.

I like your helpers. Good to see you have a complete pit crew to help you keep the plane in tip top shape!

aeajr,

I haven't given up on the small hi-start. I just haven't had time to test it with weaker rubber and the tow hook in the right place. My helpers and their younger brother see to it that my time is in very short supply.

Regards, Tim

[Mafu]

Hi Guys,

I've decided I should get a hosemonster bungee - only problem is the email on the website (http://www.aerofoam.com - email aero@aerofoam.com) is bouncing, and there are no other contact details.

Any ideas? Anyone got a more recent email?

Thanks!

Matt

[Peter Young]

Matt

I had a bit of trouble with my purchase(slow responses to e-mails etc) - my guess is that hosemonster etc is one person's hobby. As with most of these sorts of arrangements they are at risk of dying off as the one person gets too busy or loses interest.

Good luck - maybe I should sell shares in mine? It's not getting much use at the moment.

Peter

[ejett]

Mafu:

I emailed Mark about his email situation and this is the reply I got back from him:

"Ed, my server is giving me trouble, he should be able to get through now, I am not a member of the rc groups and won't bother trying to post. If you know his email address, forward this, thanks....

Mark Mech
www.aerofoam.com"

So, I recommend you try him again.

EJ

[WGH]

I've ordered from him twice, never bothered with the email just filled out his order form and dropped it in the mail, got the rubber a week later. I highly recommend his product and his service has been great!

[Mafu]

Thanks everyone! Its most appreciated! I've just sent the email off again, and it looks like it really has left the building, so that has to be good :) I'm in Australia, so can't just send the order form off, I need the extra postage costs (damn international postage!)

Peter - we need to catch up sometime - I need to go flying! Time seems to be getting less and less these days!

M

[aeajr]

aeajr,

I haven't given up on the small hi-start. I just haven't had time to test it with weaker rubber and the tow hook in the right place. My helpers and their younger brother see to it that my time is in very short supply.

Regards, Tim

2motherus,

Looks like you need a buddy box! Great pictures.

[windsox]

yeah mandrel dipped is better blah blah blah, for what you will pay in shipping you could buy 200 feet of latex and build a new upstart every 3 months for the next 2 years. Also there is the stuff we have in the states called 303 protectant. it is is a rubber and vinyl conditioner with UV inhibitors in it. I use it on my fly rod line and it works great at keeping the uv at bay. Put something like that on the tubbing periodically should extend its life a great deal. I f you cant get that use plain vanilla sunblock like you put on your skin it will prolong the life of the rubber.





Mafu:

I emailed Mark about his email situation and this is the reply I got back from him:

"Ed, my server is giving me trouble, he should be able to get through now, I am not a member of the rc groups and won't bother trying to post. If you know his email address, forward this, thanks....

Mark Mech
www.aerofoam.com"

So, I recommend you try him again.

EJ

[Peter Young]

(apologies off topic) - Matt, I'm back at work having given up on studies. 4 unbuilt planes under the house and no time to finish them or fly them! Priorities all screwed up I think.

[2motheus]

2motherus,

Looks like you need a buddy box! Great pictures.

aeajr,

Thanks!

Got out with the boys (the older two) this weekend and tried the small hi-start with the new tow hook location. Works great. In 5-10 mph wind the Chrysalis kited right up to the full length of the line. Had one flight of over 6 minutes, though the 10-oz plane didn't penetrate the breeze very well for getting back to the field.

I see no reason that #64 rubber bands or something else wouldn't work as well for a small glider. I've also seen that stronger HLGs are being catapult launched with just the rubber. See arthobbie web site.

On my hi-start I'm considering lengthening the line just to give my trainees a starting point that is "at least three mistakes" AGL (above ground level).

Regards,

Tim

[2motheus]

I've also seen that stronger HLGs are being catapult launched with just the rubber. See arthobbie web site.


Sorry - it's not arthobbie. Make that www.arthobby.com. They have a video of a catapult launch.