The people have spoken:

[easytiger]

District Eight election results:

Sandy Frank 1,931
Horrace Cain 553
Michael Moss 471

That's a landslide against Horrace Cain.

The lesson being...like I have been saying...don't beleive all the nonsense you read on the internet.
There is so much baloney out there being posted about the AMA. The vast majority of people are wise enough NOT to buy it.

[leccyflyer]

Looks like the vast majority of people didn't vote either - as usual. What percentage does that represent of the members entitled to vote??

[Don Sims]

My thoughts also Brian. If those numbers are correct, that was a poor turnout. Perhaps it was because of all the flaming and fussing on the net instead of debate and discussion??? Hope D-5 doesn't degenerate into the same type of election that just happened there.
Don

[easytiger]

It's usually something between ten and twenty percent that vote.
No matter how much fuss and hype there is about an AMA election, the voting numbers always turn out about the same, this one does not seem special, as far as low turnout. Maybe even a bit higher than usual.
But the numbers that DID vote tell a very, very clear story, don't they?

[Bud Morrison]

What happened to the write in ?

[easytiger]

The auditing firm did not turn in their final tally, but evidently, there were not enough votes for Jim Branaum to matter.
Certainly there were not the 2000 votes needed to win...
My own OPINION is that he started out too little and too late, and if he REALLY wants to run next time around, start NOW. And do it on the fields and at the club meetings, not here on the internet. Good luck to him, he seems a very nice fellow.

[Jim Branaum]

Easytiger,
You are right on all counts.

Too little, too late, and not very many votes. In fact it looks like less than 100.

However, this was an unexpected effort triggered by appear to be immoral actions by two of the "official" candidates. I still don't believe we need that type of leadership at the helm of the AMA.

Had I started out with intentions to run, I am sure I would have made the ballot as my 'credentials' were better than at least one of the "official candidates" from the start. Not being on the ballot made a significant difference. All up hill.

Thank you for the kind words,

[mike2663]

I remember when flying was about fun not politics when is the AMA going to start serving us and not THEM.Look what happened to Frank Tiano last year. At least he flys and runs one of The best contests ever devised.What we need is a little competion in this insurance scam.But they will just sue like they did to Sport Flyers. The only thing Sandy Frank is about is the Southwestern Aeromodeling deal!If you dont belive me just read all of his reports in the AMA rag were forced to get monthly.Sorry but this is really driving me nuts.Any Ideas?mike

[easytiger]

Uh-huh. So, what happened to Tiano last year? Do tell.

Tell me more about how the AMA sued the Sport Flyers.

Educate me a bit, what happened in both those instances, Mike?

[easytiger]

Originally posted by Jim Branaum
Easytiger,
You are right on all counts.

Too little, too late, and not very many votes. In fact it looks like less than 100.

However, this was an unexpected effort triggered by appear to be immoral actions by two of the "official" candidates. I still don't believe we need that type of leadership at the helm of the AMA.

Had I started out with intentions to run, I am sure I would have made the ballot as my 'credentials' were better than at least one of the "official candidates" from the start. Not being on the ballot made a significant difference. All up hill.

Thank you for the kind words,

The "immoral actions", the stuffing of the ballot box for nominees...well, when you think about it, it's not that important. While I don't agree with either Cain or Frank doing that, I don't think it really affected the outcome of the election one bit, in the end.
I also think it comes across as one of those issues of "he said, she said", that very few people are really going to understand...it just is going to come across as petty and small.
My suggestion is to forget that issue, never mention it again. It falls under the realm of goofy, petty politics and procedure, and you lose the vast majority of the audience when you mention it. Not saying I APPROVE of the actions, just saying it's not worth all the fuss.

"Not being on the ballot made a significant difference. All up hill."

Yes, but remember HORRACE won once on a write in ballot...so it IS possible.

I think you have to remember this, above all things....

The election is not won on the internet. As a matter of fact, if past elections are anything to go by....pick the candidate who APPEARS to be winning on the internet...he's going to lose the election!
Remember there is a vast "silent majority" that DOES vote who feels completely different from what you read on the net. MOST people are very happy with the AMA, and they vote accordingly.
All this nonsense about the system being fixed to favor the incumbent, yadda yadda yadda, it's pure internet carp. Look at the Tiano election...first everybody said "they will never put him on the ballot..." They DID. Then they said "he's going to blow DBs doors off..." Well, he didn't. He lost the election by a landslide. WHY? Because this overwhelming majority of the constiuency does not have a big PROBLEM with AMA, does not want the boat rocked in some violent new direction, is maybe a little MORE intelligent than the internet pundits give them credit for...

Anyway, my point being...forget all the internet stuff. It won't win an election. Want to bet that half of the loudest peopel who complain here did not even bother to vote?

[Jim Branaum]

Yes, however their action did open my eyes to the real standards those folks operate from and that set other things in motion. This recent stuff was clearly a really stupid move that will not be repeated as everyone gets at least one of those.

There are lots and lots of other flaws that many others have pointed out and are unhappy about. Things like always reporting on the Muncie facility and never on District VIII (probably a bit strong still a valid complaint), never writing about the people in the district who are doing good things (like competing and winning in major events around the country), being somewhat unresponsive to the average modeler and club in times when they ask for help, and the issue about using AMA resources to 'sell' his personal show (SWAC).

Your very last paragraph echoes what my thoughts on the subject have been. I already travel around the district more than the incumbent does in non election years, so my flying and haveng a good time can and will will be put into effective use. It does take time to mount a good effort and on the ground in person is always better than direct mail that SF used and the AMA columns that Cain used in the past.

[easytiger]

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. SF is one of but a dozen members of the EC. If you don't like the guy, don't assume that that's how "these folks operate..." , "these folks" being the EC. They are VERY different people...they don't even all get along.
I have only met SF once, I think, and don't really have an opinion one way or another about the guy.

As far as the column in MA...who CARES? I would be just as happy if they stopped printing them and used the mag space for something else. Frankly, some pics of fellow modellers doing nothing much of interest is not very useful to me. Sometime a long time ago, I guess when they added pictures, the VPs stopped saying anything interesting whatsoever in their columns. Maybe reduce them back to text, and they might have something to say...
I give you this caveat, though...if YOU ever win a seat on the EC, YOU will find out how hard it is to fill up a column twelve times a year! Not easy.

I really know nothing about the SWAC, so I can't comment about that, except to say that in the past, when there has been a big uproar about misuse of AMA funds and all that, it turned out not to be true.
Go look up some of the MA issues from 1980 or so, when some well-meaning(?) "watchdogs" went to HQ to "bust" everybody for all the misdoings going on...they made a bunch of assumptions about the integrity of certain people, which turned out to be totally unfounded. But the damage was done. Bill Winter, who was one of the greats of this hobby, retired from the helm of MA. Who needs to put all that time and energy into something that is done for the greater good of us all, and then get accused of being dishonest over it? They accused him of getting kickbacks from the printer, amongst other things. They accused someone else of borrowing AMA's mobile home to go on vacation, and showed up at the guy's house early in the morning to "bust" him. Turns out in was in the shop getting its springs repaired. They accused just about the whole office staff of not coming in to work, so they showed up at HQ at seven in the morning and started writing down and questioning when each employee came in...and they found out that some came in later than others...and the same people LEFT later. Who cares?
What I am saying is this...most of the giant conspiracies we read about AMA turn out to be nothing at all.

I suggest that if you are running against SF, unless you actually have proof of something specific, don't mention it. YOU are falling into the same trap of beleiving what you read on the internet that so many like mike2663 above fall into. Most of what you read here about AMA is complete fiction.

Instead of running on the "get SF out" platform...why not run on the "Get JB IN" platform. Focus on what is positive. WHY should people change horses...what are YOU going to do that will be better?

[Jim Branaum]

Sorry for the confusion. "those folks" refered to two of the "official" AMA candidates for District VIII VP election ONLY! Let me clarify my position on the subject a little. Most of the AMA EC members are hard working folks who really do want to have the hobby presented in a good light. Most of them do not take actions just to make themselves look good to any group, but there are exceptions. As a group they tend to fade lots of undeserved heat that is generated by their actions, some good and some misdirected. Most of them will even take extra steps to insure the AMA is not hurt by the bad actions of others and correct errors they have made. To me that says a lot about the general level of integrity and intent found on the AMA EC.

The rest of the 'stuff' is just a list of things others have said to me, not that I disagree with any of the observations. None of them can ever be the basis of any campaign as they boil down to 'sizzle' rather than 'steak', as you noted.

Your comments seem to suggest that the monthly MA column is difficult to write and I disagree. First they do not have to write 12 a year. The second reason I differ has to do with intent, direction, and committment. Most of the EC members I converse with have much to share with the members. Your observation that most of the space is not taken by communications, but pictures is accurate as that seems to be what the 'electorate' wants.

[mike2663]

To put it in a nutshell Frank lost because the membership didn't vote.Call it what you will but untill the run of the mill sport flyer is affected by how the AMA is run and how rules are changed,how money is spent(did they ask you where to build the AMA site),they will not care.Most flyers want a place to fly without a bunch of hassels or expense.As far as Sport Flyers the AMA and them got into a war of words the AMA sued and won putting Sport Flyers out of the game.All they did was offer PRIMARY INSURACE instead of YOUR HOMEOWNERS IS 1st.I've been around flying for 15 years ran into a AMA guy one time when we asked what the AMA could do to help inprove our field we were told "to have fun".I wish these people had to operate in the real world.If I gave my boss a reply like that I'd get canned.I guess my whole deal is the AMA membership is slipping and it aint going to get better untill we get new leadership wiiling to deal with 2004 instead of 1964.Times are changing and maybe the AMA should too.If I have offended anyone by what I'm saying so be it I feel the AMA should be held accountable the same way we are held accountable in our every day lives.THe AMA is here to serve us the membership.DO THEY?

[easytiger]

Is THAT what happened?

I seem to remember about 20,000 people voting in that election.
FOUR TIMES as many voted for Brown than Tiano.
So, uh, no. It's not that people did not vote. It's that people saw what the two candidates had to offer, and they spoke. An OVERWHELMING majority were not buying the Tiano thing.

Sorry, but no sale. It was not apathy, it was not the incumbent had some sort of huge advantage...an election was held, and Tiano LOST. Period. In a nutshell.

You also know ZIPPO about the AMA/SFA. Seems like all you know about it is what you read on the internet. Very little of it is TRUE, unfortunatley. The real story is TOTALLY, COMPLETELY different. Why don't you do some research and find out the real facts?

You "guess" AMA membership is slipping. Gee, we are up to 170,000 members from 25,000 thirty years ago. Some slip.

You only "offend" me by being yet another person who really did not bother to get his facts together before posting. You really need to research a little further and get some real facts before regurgitating the same old rumors that have been floating around the internet for so long. I BEG you to do it. I would MUCH rather one more person have their eyes opened to the truth than just say "forget this" and not want to participate anymore.

[mike2663]

I can see this is going nowhere. My opion and information is not based off the internet nor or it will be,as a matter of fact this is the 1st time I've ever used this type of thing.You can defend the AMA till your heart content but I'm having none of it.They sued Sport Flyers did they not?Now theres a new group starting up.Want to bet how long before the lawyers are geared up?Anyway my question still remains IS THE AMA SERVING THE MEMBERSHIP? Will they ever change?Mike

[ctdahle]

Mike,

They did NOT sue SFA. SFA sued them and lost, big time, and was ordered to pay costs and fees to AMA.

The court order is out there on the net somewhere.

As for whether or not the AMA is serving the members, apparently most members think so, for they clearly avoided the chance to change leadership last year.

Moreover, there are large numbers of members that have opened up their wallets to help build the facility at Muncie.

Personally, I'm real happy as an AMA member and I have three good places to fly, none of which care whether I even have insurance.

[easytiger]

You know, SFA was STARTED WITH THE INTENT TO SUE AMA.
It was part of the original business plan. This according to a former employee. His letters about it are out there on the web.

How you doing, Chris? I owe some letters and christmas gifts to two of your students...

[ctdahle]

Hey Tiger,

Things are good. We are getting ready for kid #2 in March.

The students of course have moved on to the next grade, but I have had them both in my model rocket class. The Beginners Guide to Building and Flying Model Airplanes turned them both into readers last year. Very cool.

That big box of balsa wood you sent to us is really coming in handy. It has supplied materials for dozens of whipper whizzes and a couple of stunt chimps, as well as materials for a few rocket boost gliders and an some helicopter recovery rockets. There was enough usable stuff in that junk box that we managed to get a couple of 049's running out of the parts and pieces, so that was cool too.

[easytiger]

Huh. What did you do with kid #1? Ebayed it?

I still have my first kid, she is doing great, beyond joy. A real winner.

Moved on to the next grade? I though you were in one of those one room schoolhouses with all the kids together...

You know, I have a TON more stuff now. Including a TON of control line handles and bellcranks and such, I will have to send you some. And KITS. Lots of kits. Lots of hand launched glider kits, and rubber kits, in quantity, that would be good for a school program, if you have the time. I will send you some. And balsa, too. I really do have more balsa than I can use, and I keep acquiring it for some reason. I have some cox parts, but I just sold off a lot of them, I did not think of you. I also got a baby bee, complete, looks nice, in the mail today on a really horrible looking single channel plane that I bought just to get the radio out of. Yours if you want it.

[ctdahle]

Never have figured out E-bay. (never tried actually) Do kids go for a lot there?

Number one is now 14 mos. and into everything. Walking, but no talking yet. He is definitely NOT for sale! We are looking forward to the arrival of his sister though.

Actually, we are a pretty large school. When all the kids ride the bus in from the hinterlands it about doubles the town population. We have 700 kids in 14 grades from prekindergarten through 12 and a GED program.

As far as hobby stuff goes, anything you want to get rid of, we can make use of, but I am a bit embarassed by your generousity.

I do give it away as fast as I can though. It is really interesting to see the things the kids come up with.

Speaking of kids, I hear one fussing and I better sign off.