District V Members - It's time to rally!

[Red Scholefield]

You can see Tony Stilman's info and campaign website at http://webpages.charter.net/nneville/nneville/index.htm

It might seem early to get started on this but we have a lot of members in District V to educate. In the last election 10,000 ballots were mailed to the WRONG place. Would that have made a difference in a vote where the winner was decided by 83 votes in a district of 20,000 members?

All we ask is that the District V AMA members familiarize themselves with the duties of an AMA District Vice President as outlined in your AMA Membership Manual (or on the AMA web site) and then decide if there needs to be a change.

Reviewing the AMA Executive Council minutes for the past few years (available on the AMA web site) will aslo give insight into how well we are being represented in Muncie and how effective a representative we presently have.

Go to the members only section of the AMA web page and see who serves on important AMA committees. (Members Only - AMA Committtees)

Read the District V Report in Model Aviation each month (as well as the past months - available on the AMA web site in the Members Only - Digital Archive section).

Study the candidates carefully and then vote!

[Red Scholefield]

Originally posted by I2DDD
I predict that Tony Stilman will take DV if he stays out of the mud and makes himself available.

And if the District V members take the time to realy study the candidates, their understanding of the issues, modeling as it is today and the challenges that new technolgies bring. - AND VOTE!

:D TONY IS AVAILABLE:D

[NCC-1701]

I have a dillema. I was planning on attending the Southeast Model Show in Perry GA, and Florida Jets in Lakeland FL this year. Unfortunately, both events are being held on the SAME weekend, so I will have to pick one or the other.

One would think that since both events are major events and since both are being held in the same AMA District, District V, that our District VP and his AVP staff would have recognized this and worked to deconflict these major events.

The "text book" response will be something to the effect that the events are more than 300 miles apart, so there is no conflict. I do not accept that answer as both of these events are serious draws. People travel to Florida Jets from all over the country, and I personally know flyers who drive down to the Southeast Model Show from Ohio.

I guess that thinking beyond the 300 mile guideline, which is used to deconflict local contests, is too much to expect from a District VP who uses his travel allowance to shop for antiques and the widows, who pose no threat to his throne, he has appointed as AVPs.:rolleyes:

I'm voting for Tony Stillman! Just check his resume for his contributions to the RC community and demonstrated leadership serving as an NSRCA officer and US World Championship Team Manager.


Rob

[easytiger]

Both Florida Jets and the Perry Show are events for profit, yes?

[Red Scholefield]

Originally posted by easytiger
Both Florida Jets and the Perry Show are events for profit, yes?

I was under the impression that most events are held to make a profit for the organizers or club. What is your point?

Red S.

[easytiger]

The Perry show has been at the same time of year for what, two decades?
Frank Tiano can hold his show any time he wants, why he chose the weekend of the Perry Show, who knows? But how is that the AMA's fault?

Neither of these are "contests", they are shows done for profit. One is for the profit of the GAMA club, one is for the profit of Frank Tiano Enterprises. FJ is not any sort of "AMA contest", flown in any AMA competition category. It is simply a show done for the profit of one single individual that rides on AMA's insurance.
Since we want to get nasty, talking about
"District VP who uses his travel allowance to shop for antiques and the widows, who pose no threat to his throne, he has appointed as AVPs. "...
Well, we might as well have a little reality check here.

[Red Scholefield]

Originally posted by easytiger
The Perry show has been at the same time of year for what, two decades?
Frank Tiano can hold his show any time he wants, why he chose the weekend of the Perry Show, who knows? But how is that the AMA's fault?

Neither of these are "contests", they are shows done for profit. One is for the profit of the GAMA club, one is for the profit of Frank Tiano Enterprises. FJ is not any sort of "AMA contest", flown in any AMA competition category. It is simply a show done for the profit of one single individual that rides on AMA's insurance.
Since we want to get nasty, talking about
"District VP who uses his travel allowance to shop for antiques and the widows, who pose no threat to his throne, he has appointed as AVPs. "...
Well, we might as well have a little reality check here.

A reality check will come when the VP in District V steps in to try and resolve such conflicts between major events for the overall good of the members in District V and adjacent Districts. Of course it is a tough job to step in as a negotiator in this particular instance when the key players on both sides are considered "enemies of the District" due to their past opposition to the incumbent.

Send a real modeler with concerns for the district to Muncie in 2004. Vote Tony Stillman for VP.

Red S.
AMA 951 District V
Leader Member / CD

[easytiger]

Sorry, no sale.
When Frank Tiano wants to hold his event is up to him entirely. What the Perry, Georgia Swap Meet has to do with Florida Jets, I have no idea. Talk about apples and oranges!
More likely his event date was based upon availability of the Lakeland Airport than anything else.
HOW could you possibly blame the AMA VP for this? Talk about reaching. Gawd.

[Red Scholefield]

Originally posted by easytiger
Sorry, no sale.
When Frank Tiano wants to hold his event is up to him entirely. What the Perry, Georgia Swap Meet has to do with Florida Jets, I have no idea. Talk about apples and oranges!
SNIP



Back to square 1.

"I have a dillema. I was planning on attending the Southeast Model Show in Perry GA, and Florida Jets in Lakeland FL this year. Unfortunately, both events are being held on the SAME weekend, so I will have to pick one or the other.

One would think that since both events are major events and since both are being held in the same AMA District, District V, that our District VP and his AVP staff would have recognized this and worked to deconflict these major events."

1. Two major events held that a number of modelers would like to attend.

2. There is no evidence that there has ever been any effort on the part of our District VP and/or his appointed AVPs to see if this could be resolved. Maybe he could not do it but if he didn't try THAT IS THE RUB!

We can continue to discuss all the things that you feel he has "no control over" until we get to where the rubber hits the road and reach the logical conclusing that he really is of no use as a VP, and serves on no significant committes, yet represents the 2nd largest and fastest growning District in the AMA. So we can debate what he has not done ad infinitum . How about giving us an example of a significant contribution he has made in the past three decades as a VP or EVP?

If you look over the inductees to the AMA Hall of fame (Model Aviation - Feb 2004 pages 163-166) and the past recipients you will note that our District VP has not managed to make the list in the 30+ years he has been "serving" the AMA members.

Red S.
AMA 951
Leader Member/CD

[easytiger]

This is like some sort of bizarre, twisted version of reality. Real Twilight Zone stuff.

LOOK...if you have a problem with FRANK TIANO holding his event on the same weekend as one of the longest running swap meets in America, THEN BLAME HIM.
How on EARTH can this be the AMA VP's fault?
And WHO CARES if he is in the Hall Of Fame or not? What does THAT have to do with ANYTHING?

You know what? If this is the best you can do to justify why you hate the guy so much, that's pretty sad.

[Red Scholefield]

Originally posted by easytiger
This is like some sort of bizarre, twisted version of reality. Real Twilight Zone stuff.

SNIP

And WHO CARES if he is in the Hall Of Fame or not? What does THAT have to do with ANYTHING?

You know what? If this is the best you can do to justify why you hate the guy so much, that's pretty sad.

So give us the benefit of your grip on reality . . . . What has McNeill done to justify his continuation as VP for District V in light of having a challenger that is currently active in the hobby, understands the technology challenges upon which EC decisions will be based in the coming years? How we fly, what we fly and where we fly. Now if you can't come up with something meaningful as to the qualifications of the incumbent further discussion on the subject with you seems rather pointless. Not unlike trying to involve our VP in anything with more depth than taking snaps and soliciting votes.

Red S.
AMA 951
Leader Member/CD

[easytiger]

Tell me, very specifically, what the problems are with Jim McNeill.
Not vague statements about being "out of touch", but actual, tangible evidence of your assertion. Show me votes that he did that were not wise, things that he did.
Otherwise, it just sounds like so much political BS. Not a word you have said so far has any actual SUBSTANCE to it, it's all just political posturing:

"the other candidtate is out of touch..."
It's meaningless.

The thing about scheduling Florida Jets versus Perry Swap Meet does not hold any water whatsoever, that's ONE thing shot down, has zero to do with you VP anyway...
So, cite specific examples of why Jim McNeil is a problem. I don't know the guy, only met him once, so I have no judgement on him myself.

[Don Sims]

Gents, so far you've kept it fairly civil. Please keep it that way. We really hate closing or deleting threads in this forum.
Don

[NCC-1701]

Easytiger,

Here you go.
______________________________________________
Tell me, very specifically, what the problems are with Jim McNeill.

Basically, we're tired of having capable modelers being kicked out of important positions in District V just because Mr McNeil perceives they may successfully run against him and take his VP seat away. This has led to these key positions being filled by cronies, and in many cases, non-modelers who do not understand this hobby and are not adequately representing the membership. We're also tired of clubs being penalized (access to frequency scanning equipment), because they don't "play ball" and do as they're told, and favoritism (the infamous"club of the month") for those that do, etc.

Here are the specifics. It's all been stated on RCU. Everything from firing Tony Stillman as frequency coordinator, to who he appoints as AVPs, to the friction between Jim and the event directors of the Perry Show, Norm Deputy and the late Jim Duckworth.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1045163/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#1045163

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1304994/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#1304994

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1083846/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#1083846

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_991449/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#991449

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1018992/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#1018992

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_990342/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#990342

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_465282/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#465282

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_595327/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#595327

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_555079/mpage_1/key_mcneill/anchor/tm.htm#555079

I met Jim McNeil last year at the Americus, GA Pattern Contest which was held at Mac Hodges Field. I was aware of Red's postings on RCU, but decided to keep an open mind and just be observant. He and his wife arrived about 10:00. He walked around and introduced himself and took pictures. He told me, "...that sure is a pretty airplane..." and took my picture. He then went into Mac's Shop, talked for a while, took some pics and left after about an hour and a half. What was very obvious to me whas how little he knew about pattern. He never talked about the event, just "how pretty everyone's airplane was". He didn't stay for any of the round standings to be posted, let alone the final results. I don't expect the District VP to be an expert on every aspect of aeromedeling, but you would think that after 25 years in the job, he'd have absorbed a basic understanding of all the competitions and would take an interest in the aspects of areomodeling he does not actively participate in and get more involved than "...pretty airplane..." Oh, and I almost forgot, the Perry GA area is full of antique shops.

_________________________________________________

Sorry, no sale.

So?! I my original statement venting my frustration about both events being the same weekend. I was planning on attending both this year and was disappointed by the conflict. I also recall an incident where Mr McNeil was intentionally promoting a swap meet in Birmingham, AL in direct competition with the Perry Show after he perceived Norm Deputy might become a threat to his seat. I do not believe this presnt schedule conflict (Perry Show vs FL Jets) was deliberate. Both were independently scheduled. I just haven't seen a disclaimer from the Southeastern Model Show, Florida Jets, or District V stating that there was no way to deconflict these two events. That's why I concluded that the District V leadership never involved themselves to deconflict and help ensure the success of both.

________________________________________________

The thing about scheduling Florida Jets versus Perry Swap Meet does not hold any water whatsoever, that's ONE thing shot down, has zero to do with you VP anyway...

In your opinion. In mine, it's another example of "business as usual" here in District V. I hope things are run better up in District II. Please read the RCU threads and then you'll understand our frustrations. Besides venting, we're trying to "get out the vote" and change things for the better down here.


Rob

PS

My picture never made it to the pages of Model Aviation. :(

[I2DDD]

You know it doesn't really matter...here nor there...If the DV VP had intervened he would have been condemned for showing some favoritisms or some such other, by the same ole same ole, just the same... so what is the difference? Heck… just drop it! Of course the same ole same ole will take exception to this post also. :eek: :D

[easytiger]

I'm not going to read all the RCU nonsense, that forum is totally bogus, top to bottom.
I agree with i2dd, if the VP DID say something, it would have been him "busting Frank Tiano's chops..." or whatever. Anyway, Frank Tiano scheduled the event. Why don't you take it up with HIM?

[Red Scholefield]

Originally posted by easytiger
I'm not going to read all the RCU nonsense, that forum is totally bogus, top to bottom.


You are saying that this is bogus?

4/28/98

From the Dixie Aeromaster Inc. Newsletter
William W. Atkins
467 W. Seminole Rd.
Byron, GA 31008

A Rebuttal
by Jim McNeill, District V Vice President

1998 is an election year for the AMA District 5 Vice Presidency. I currently hold the office. I am running for re-election.
A few weeks ago a Mr. Norman Deputy announced his intention to run also. Curiously, he mailed all of my Associate Vice Presidents a package asking them to nominate him for the office. Contained in the package was a spoon-fed pre-worded nomination addressed to the Nominating Committee. Also an envelope with a 32c stamp on it pre-addressed also. All the Associate VP had to do was follow instructions. 1) sign it; 2) include his or her AMA number; 3) mail it. I have 4 of these in front of me now. To contained the same wording as the one appearing in your DIXIE AEROMASTERS NEWSLETTER now. Only one nomination is necessary. This is all very new. Anyone experienced in AMA matters knows the relationship between a Dist. VP and his Associate Vice Presidents is generally based on trust and a long friendship. At first blush I decided to stay out of it and let Deputy run his own business. Now, however, he has changed his story and has become bolder. For me to remain silent is an error.
In his pitch he says: “we as a group, do not communicate very well with each other, and we as AMA members, feel that we are very far removed from the District Vice President, Associate Vice Presidents, the AMA Executive Council and the policies they make on our behalf.” My response to this is: RUBBISH. POLITICS. Politics at its lowest level. You, the member, are not very far removed from me, and I am not very far removed from you. In each issue of your Model Aviation magazine I have my address, my phone number, my FAX number, my E-mail jemcneill@juno.com, now my own WEB PAGE. http://www.scott.net/~ama. I am starting a District Newsletter to all editors, exchange, and contacts of the 318 clubs in my District.
This last go-around I have been your Dist. VP for 25 years. After each of the previous 33 council meetings, I have immediately reported to you in your magazine exactly what happened, the motions etc., and how and why I voted as I did. Go back and check your old magazines. I am the only Council member who has done so. I have stopped this practice, it is no longer necessary. Today we have a fine new President and very experienced Executive Director, so now Hdq’ers publishes in detail the minutes in the next issue. This was not the practice when I take office in 1990. Some of you may recall the national furor that erupted when I reported the proposed land purchase in Visalia, Cal, using AMA dues money. Let me make my point in another way. For several years I have given away AMA Rule Books, Booklets on Flying Sites, videos for acquiring flying sites, videos for club entertainment at meetings, books of “Roberts Rules of Order”. I have mailed out free hundreds of these items. Not one single time has any members complained I was slow in mailing or to quote Deputy “very far removed.” I am as close to you as your telephone, or your FAX machine, or your computer, or your mail box.
Deputy’s mention of a WEB PAGE for the District is excellent. I already have one. I am scanning newsletters to show them on the WEB. Currently I have 10 megs and more if I need them. My secret plan is to show 1 page for each of the 318 clubs in my District that want me to. I will group them by states.
Mr. Deputy’s credentials in his statement appear quite impressive. He says:

NORMAN DEPUTY
LEADER MEMBER SCIENTIFIC
LEADER MEMBER ADMINISTRATIVE

He is indeed a Leader Member but he has not told you how long he has been a Leader Member. He became a Leader Member March 18, 1998. Last month. When Hdq’ers received his first nomination from James Duckworth on March 17 (dated 3-10-98) he was not yet a Leader Member. He became one hours later. Also he states: “...an avid model enthusiast for 10 years...” I’m sure he’s telling the truth here but he does not say how long he has been an AMA member. He joined AMA on June 10, 1991. He has been an AMA member for 6 years and 10 months.
I have been an AMA member since its inception. In 1939 I was told to stop painting NAA & my membership number on the right upper wings of my models and henceforth put AMA & the number instead. The American Academy of Model Aeronautics had dropped the American word off and was now Academy of Model Aeronautics. I had been a member of NAA for years before then. I have been on AMA’s Board of Directors, its Council, for 25 of the last 27 years. Longer than anyone else in AMA’s history.
If Norman Deputy accesses to the office of Vice Presidency of District V I hope he treats you better than he has treated me. Last Fall he called me on the phone and requested I put an AMA booth in the then forthcoming Southeastern Model Show at Perry, Georgia. I then got in my car and drove to the Georgia Aircraft Modelers Assoc. club meeting in Warner Robins where Deputy was the Club Secretary Treasurer. I offered an AMA booth etc., never at ant time did he as Show Coordinator offer ANY pledge of assistance from any members of his club to help AMA. He said they would all be busy. A very distinguished old-time FFer offered to help but is in poor health. I sent one of my Associate VPs to monitor the booth, drove over myself to see. Whammo!!! SURPRISE!!! The AMA display wasn’t in the main room at all where all the action was taking place. It had been sullied off into a side building. I didn’t understand at the time but I understand now. As a direct result of the manner in which Norman Deputy treated the Academy of Model Aeronautics at his Perry Show a committee of 3 has been developed here in Birmingham and are creating a Model Show beginning in Jan or Feb of next year in the old Fairgrounds buildings. One of these halls is 3 times the size of the Perry, Georgia one.

My grateful acknowledgements to your fine Club Editor Mr. Bill Atkins and your fine Club President Mr. Jim Harris in allowing me this rebuttal.

copies; All of my Associate VPs.

Jim McNeill, VP District V

From Tom Rhodes

After Reading the “Rebuttal” by Jim McNeil to Norm Deputy announcing and campaining for Dist V VP I had to say a few things. Norm Deputy has been nominated for AMA Dist V VP, He has announced he is running and solicited support from the AVP’s in his district. Put a web page with a campain statement, and in general has started a clean campain for the AMA District V VP. Norm is actively seeking the AMA District V VP position. Upon seeing some compition Jim McNeil has made a personal attack against Norm. I find it appalling that he would stoop to such petty negative politics. Jim was also a little liberal with the facts in his “Rebuttal”.

Jim Said - Not one single time has any members complained I was slow in mailing or to quote Deputy “very far removed.”

It took several people incuding myself over 6 months for him to even consider doing anything with the internet. His web page has just now gone up. I called him and sent him many letters over months to get him to say what if anything he planned for District V on the internet. Several emails, faxs, and phone calls to him went Ignored, and he even made dispariging remarks about myself and others because we were pushing him for some kind of action or at least his stance on the District V internet presence. It took requests on other VP’s to get Jim to respond. Jim will answer requests and send info as long as it doesn’t require him to think or make stand on an issue. Otherwise he has and will ignore you in hopes that you will go away. Some of you may remember the monthly letters to Jim I put on the District VIII email list last year He was brought into the information age kicking and screaming. He had actually dropped doing anything on the net untill Norm’s nomination for VP.

Norm may have just become a “Leader Member” but he’s obviously a leader in model aviation. Look at his resume at his web site. He’s only been in AMA a little more than 6 years. He’s been active for that 6 years. The question is does Jim have 30 years of experience or 1 year of experience 30 times? Jim doesn’t fly anymore. His only activity is AMA VP. That might be good but he doesn’t really do anything and if anyone does or says anthing critical of any of actions or decisions he takes it as a personal attack. Dissagree with him or question one of his decisions and he fears that you’re out for his job. Norm Deputy really is out for his job, so Jim is attacking the man and stretching the facts on the communication issue. Jim is a nice guy but he’s not a leader, he doesn’t campain for our District but appears to look out for his position as an AMA VP and not look out for the AMA members of his district. He’s the consumate AMA politician holding his position longer than anybody in AMA history.

I offered to help and publish and AMA District V web site with links to all the clubs in the district. Put up Club Newsletters, and put up Jims notes and information a year ago. I even got a IP to donate the server space for the site. Jim didn’t know what I was offering, and told me he didn’t think it was a good idea. He’s changed his tune and it’s now “Jim’s Secret Plan”. ….Tom Rhodes AMA531770 tomr@xtalwind.net



From: Jim Duckworth <jduckworth@msn.com>

A District VP Wakes Up

Well I guess we all know now what it takes to wake up a District Vice President. Just challenge their hold on the position. In my association with AMA, and since I am not running I will not bother you with letter and verse of how many years that is, this is the fastest action I have seen on the part of any District V VP, regarding anything. Incidently where did Jim McNeill get the information regarding the where, when etc of Norm Deputy's association with AMA? I wonder if this information regarding McNeill's "history" would be available to anyone. Who cares? Right now we need an active administrator with a desire to become involved in the administration of the hobby and one who can provide the membership with a positive forward looking agenda. We already have an administrator who has sat on the position currently for 8.25 (?) years, but who has resisted coming into the current computer age, and who insists on pointing backwards to the things he has done, but has no statement indicating what he is going to offer in the future. Maybe that is a little hard, because Jim does indicate he has a "secret plan" to put all newsletter front pages on his web site.

Several things in Jim's rebuttal require a response. I detected some concernment in the rebuttal letter due to the fact Norm notified all 17 or so of Jim's AVPs ( whose relationship is "based on trust and a long friendship) of his intention to run for the office. What a better way to start your association with the membership than to notify all the associates of your intentions, and include a self addressed envelope for their convenience. Jim explains it as "this is all very new." Bingo, perhaps Jim just got his first clue as to a great way to service your constituency "convenience." In the rebuttal Jim indicates that 4 of his AVPs forwarded the info Norm sent them to him. This indicates the 4 did not desire to nominate Norm. Jim needs to not worry about the four, but think of the other 13 that may have some desires for a change in District V.

Jim goes off in the rebuttal about Norm's statement that "we do not communicate very well with each other" as rubbish, and then indicates his address on the Model Aviation District V page as his communication tool with the membership. I'll let someone else determine which of the two statements are "rubbish." Jim's web page did not exist several weeks ago when Norm wrote his concerns regarding communication amongst AMA people. Norm has had a web page up and running for about 2 years now and has been communicating and interacting very well through this medium with club members, interested modelers and others for these many years. Probably a very good indication of what we can expect from him in years to come.

In the rebuttal letter Jim wimpers about hoping that Norm will treat "you better than he has treated me," this in regard to the AMA display at the Southeastern Model Show. This display was in my bailiwick at the show, an Norm was very busy with many other duties. Norm made the initial contact with AMA, was told that District V VP should handle it. Norm then made contact with Jim, and all subsequent actions concerning the display were made by me. After several calls by me to Jim, to an AVP etc, the display was shipped to Norm's home address. Now as to the placement of the display, it was not "sullied off into a side building," but placed in the Conference Center, a multi-million dollar media building, used by the Agri-center complex for conferences of all types. Along with the AMA display, the building contained an IMAA display, Southern Scale Warbird, Senior Pattern, and Peach State Quarter Scale displays. While this building did not garner the traffic we hoped for, it was the first year for this arrangement and understandably we will have more exposure for these displays in the future. Now as to this business of "I then got in my car and drove to the GAMA meeting" OK that is a true statement, but next comes "never at anytime did he as show coordinator offer any pledge of assistance from any members of his club." Wrong, at that stage of the planning contact had already been made to have the AMA display, a lease paid on the building for the display etc, all of which was accomplished by "members of this club." Further the display was taken to the Agri-center by Norm, and I set the display up, positioned it and directed the AVP who was to handle it to the area. Jim was at the show, I spoke to him myself in the main building, and if he had so much as mentioned any concerns about the display, I feel sure we could have and would have brought our full attention to the problem. Several times during the show I asked the AVP if Jim McNeill had come to the display, and to the best of my knowledge Jim did not visit the display, or even enter the "sullied off " building.

...........Jim Duckworth

[easytiger]

Okay. I read the above. I have to agree with McNeill on this one. It IS rubbish. Bad politics. On the lowest level.
Sending a premade nomination to the AVPs is tacky, at the very least. The whole thing stinks of personal animosity, nothing more. I don't beleive for a minute that anybody's objective here is to serve the AMA Membership better, I think it's all about somebody does not like somebody.
Why would he accept a registered letter from YOU? I think he knows how you feel about him, what good would be served by reading whatever it was you felt was so important it had to be sent registered mail to him. At some point, I'm sure he realized, like most of the others did at the EC, that there are always going to be these unpleasable people out there, why not spend your time talking to the rest of the membership, instead?

You also failed to mention something VITAL in this whole thing:
He FIRED you as an AVP. Hence your vehemence on this whole matter.
Horrace Cain also fails to mention the fact that he was (essentially) FIRED from the EC.
It kind of explains a LOT to me and the rest of the membership. There are long standing personal grudges here. Not much more than that.
Both of you guys should seriously look inside yourselves and see what YOU did to create a situation where you could no longer perform your jobs of AVP and VP.
What good are you doing for the AMA Membership?
Now you are both outsiders looking in, and not in any position to implement whatever it is that you feel you have to offer. What good is that?

At SOME point, you will have to let things go, and stop thinking about all this hatred and personal animosity. If you really mean well, you should be talking about actual, tangible things you intend to DO for AMA, not about complicated intangible bad politics and how bad the OTHER guy is.
Look...nobody is really interested in the exchange above with Norm Deputy and all that. 99.5% of people are going to breeze through it and say..."Huh...sounds like a PERSONAL problem to me, you best go speak to the Padre about that!" It's too weird and complicated, and it's all about some silly "he said, she said". It's just so much internet silliness.

Soooo...if you want people to VOTE for Stillman instead of McNeill, you had better find some actual SUBSTANCE to the campaign. What will HE do that will be better? What, aside from "the other guy is out of touch...yadda yadda yadda"(very typical polittical campaign nonsense, could be from any old election platform) does Tony Stillman intend to DO, besides talk about how bad the opponenent is? Because that don't cut it.

[Don Sims]

Well, we tried to warn you. But you gents continue to flame each other and ingore the site policies.

I split the worst of the flaming and am leaving that here in this closed thread and am starting a new one to try it again.