Crow

[solo6796]

I have a full house Elegant 700 that I've set up with crow mixing. Still havn't got the hang of getting consistant spot landings, tho.

I have been swiching on crow during the final part of the approach. I'm thinking maybe I should hit the crow mix around 50 to 100 ft or so and come in steep.

What do the contest winners do?

AJ

[Ollie]

They practise a lot. Maybe shoot several scores of landings just in preperation for a contest. No matter how good you are, practise is still more or less continuously necessary to keep the competitive edge. It's even more important for fliers who haven't reached the top tier yet.

[solo6796]

I knew you would say that....

I'll practice steeper approaches next time out and see. I do notice better control that way cuz I'm able to keep more speed.

[CactusJackSlade]

solo6796,

What is your set-up? I mean I am assuming that you have your crow on a switch that allows you to vary the amount of control on the throttle stick correct?

Yes, maybe a steeper approach too, but not too much. I tend to come in a little high and steep, hit full crow and then settle down and back off on the crow when a moderate distance from target, thed add more crow as I reach the target. Of course, this is just MY style!

Depending if I am short or long I just modulate the amount of crow (throttle stick)... but as Ollie says.. PRACTICE! Just get a zip start set-up and do a bunch of go-arounds and try spot landings.

Hope this helps!

Good luck!

CJS

[R. Carver]

Ditto on the practice! You can also experiment with different landing setups to see what you feel most comfortable with, like more or less up aileron to down flap, maybe mix in a touch more down elevator whenever you hit full crow, stuff like that...Oh yeah, and practice :)

[ICTHRMLS]

One of the first things we see as a beginner sailplaner is the awesome display of crow - someone will come in hot and dump full crow resulting in a nice soft slow landing. We tend to start out doing the same thing and it's great when just fun flying but worthless in contest flying.

I prefer to ease into the crow prior to initial landing pattern set-up if possible. This slows things down and allows you to gauge the effects of any wind. In a "perfect" approach (my opinion) full crow would not be reached until touchdown, if at all. Your glide path is preferably a straight line to the target as opposed to a series of steps. I suggest you start final with about 25% crow and make small adjustments as needed.

Full crow usually does two things depending on your set up. One... it kills off most of the airspeed and if you find your self coming up short you will be dissappointed with the result when you suddenly get out of crow. Think the aerodynamics of a Mosler safe. Two.... it limits the amount of yaw control available as your aeirleons are partially up and less effective.

My present set-up uses less up aelerion (gawd, I can't spell that word) than a few years ago and I don't miss it. Don't forget to add the down elevator compensation if your radio will permit. Check that a few mistakes high in the air by easing the crow in and watching the nose of the plane.

Hope you find these thoughts helpful.....................

[Miami Mike]

Originally posted by ICTHRMLS
... it limits the amount of yaw control available as your aeirleons are partially up and less effective.Yaw?

[solo6796]

I'm using an Eclipse 7. Crow is on a switch and controlled by the throttle stick.

I appreciate the tips. Practice is the key, but I wanted to see what other pilots are doing on approach.

Thanks!

[ICTHRMLS]

Originally posted by Miami Mike
Yaw? Oops........... I mean roll. Thanks Mike. I musta been yawnin' when I typed that.

[bbreidenbach]

to ICTHRMLS, like your handle! i have been called (dances with planes}when sloping good! when slightly losing balance and then doing a mexican hatdance to avoid stepping on one's own crunchy handlaunch BAAAAD !!!!. also i don't think you mis-spoke at all, i use rudder and crow if needed on approach. "yaw" can be a good thing . miami mike, it's fun to practice you can line up on the runway and avoid banking. it works but be carefull while using rudder and crow simultaniously.

[tonyestep]

Here's one way to do it. Assume that the wind is light.

Get upwind of yourself with 1 minute to go. Have your timer count in 5 second intervals. For the first 30 seconds, fly in fast circles until you are about 50 feet high.

Head downwind and pass yourself at 35 seconds (25 to go). As you turn downwind, drop flaps about one-third of the way.

At 40 seconds, begin a U-shaped turn to come back upwind to the spot. At 45, you'll be half-way through this turn; at 50, you're on approach.

Throughout the U-turn, you can adjust the amount of crow. If you're too hot and/or too high, use more. If you're dragging, reduce the amount of flaps.

When you get lined up on final, a good situation is to be about 25 feet high, about 150 feet away, with adequate airspeed and about half-flap. As you get close to the spot, go for full crow and put the nose down. Drive the plane's nose to the spot, adjusting direction with rudder.

That's my scheme; others who can land better than me will probably give you different advice. But most guys will agree that it's better to drop some flaps early and adjust, rather than using the on/off approach.

[solo6796]

I agree...

It was too windy for me today for flying, but was going to try some different techniques in landing.

One will be to add crow a little sooner and get used to flying in this condition with a much greater angle of decent. Then finesse my way to the spot.

Presently, I have crow set on the throttle stick for variable input and flaps on a rotary knob.

I'll try this a couple mistakes high for the first time, tho........

Thanks for the advice!

AJ

[ICTHRMLS]

Originally posted by solo6796

Presently, I have crow set on the throttle stick for variable input and flaps on a rotary knob.

Interesting set-up..... Most of our club members put the flaps on the throttle stick and mix in up aierleon to down flap for the crow feature. Cambering can be put on a preset switch or rotary lever. I prefer the switch in case the lever/knob gets bumped. Then again, regardless of setup it is PRACTICE that counts. It would also help if the rain would stop for a few days.:rolleyes:

[John Gallagher]

Can you put the flaps on the throttle stick with the Eclipse 7?

John

[bbreidenbach]

yes you can. has to be in glider four servo wing set-up. 1&5 for ailerons ,6 & 7 flaps,enable crow option in menu. adjust to taste. eclipse is not the best radio for easy full wing control but a good value. and the instructions are not easy. i experimented with set-up by a virtual wing ( 4-servos taped to a board ) safe and easy. good luck

[davidleitch]

This year I've been flying an electric Organic, quite similar to the Elegant.

Based on other advice decided to just use flaps and no up aileron.

I've found that coming in high with a lot of flap allows for a slow "parachute" drop onto the spot. It may not be themost pretty approach but its very effective, and quite easy for a beginner.

It definitely helps to have the flaps on the throttle stick rather than on a switch. Because you come in very slow the wind does blow you around but there is still lots of aileron and rudder authority.

In higher wind an even steeper and shorter approach works well.

In low wind then go longer and come in flatter for more hang time.

The low flat approach does let you milk the elevator for up to 20 or 30 metres which can be helpful in a spot landing, but I find it less reliable at hitting the spot.

[bbreidenbach]

you might try some up aileron,just keep similar throws available for roll quick response.try for the spot and less importance to the time .i think this would give better control if your ship is ballasted.also increases effective washout of the wing(stable in roll axis)