glider guy cant fly power

[viti]

the previous thread titled:power guys cant fly gliders: seems to be losing steam so i thought it was about time to open this conversation in a slightly differant light.

i spent years flying hanggliders and im quite use to getting bashed buy the big boys [full scale saiplanes] i also have flown sailplanes and i know that the L/D sucks on HG compared to sailplanes but it wasnt until we started to soar together before the sailplanes started to become more interested in the old""bags of wind""

it had a lot to do with getting back to basics,alot of the S/P guys were getting sick of the club policys,grass cutting hangar fees,need i say more?

after some time and aerotowing we were able to get a few guys up for tandem flights and before long we were pulling them in.

the trade off for an open cockpit seems to really thrill guys!!



threw a stroke of bad luck,a few years latter i was very sick with crohn`s desease and i wasnt in any shape to fly for a while so i decided to build a power plane [yes, slim!! lots of it]
i wanted to see for myself what this was really like to take off and land on wheels and at the time is was something my health allowed me to do!! [dont kid yourself guys,you may be there some day too!]

what i found was that there are a lot of mistakes that us glider guys can make while flying glow [power,whatever]

the two things that took a while for me to do were #1 dead sticks,,,,#2 soft landings

my biggest problems was assuming that i would have a better glide than i did,,,,,,,lol i would have a glow out,,then judge my height,make a turn for a eazy approach and bang!!! fall out of the sky ,,come up short,try to ground effect,,and belly flop!!

threw all this i met a bunch off great guys,learned a ton ,had some very productive conversations with both glider and glow pilots and formed a team of guys for aerotowing,,my feeling is that im a better pilot now from flying power and im also a tug pilot if need be!
i have since given up my glow equipment for a full house r/c glider and some of the guys that did fly gliders has since given them up but or friendship is still very strong and i have my own personal aerotow operation just for me,,im the only glider guy that flies on a regular basis..

i guess,what goes around comes around and we all can learn from any form of flight but this idea of trying to alway convert pilots from one to the other is totally pointless!

and hey!!! all you glider dudes that say power guys know nothing about energy management<<< they dont need to,,they have none!! lol [please no offence]

but seriously guys open your minds a little,if we ever what to bridge the gap between glider and power we must first except the fact there there just might be something to learn from it



running for the bunker!!!! viti



:D :D :D

[davidleitch]

As a matter of fact I love flying electric pattern and want to try 3D as well.

Landings are much harder in my opinion with an undercarriage and high wing loading as compared to a glider with flaps.

Rudder is vastly more important in a power plane. Snap rolls, knife edge etc.

Energy management, or at least throttle management, is actually a big deal in loops and the like.

Luv my gliders, but also my pattern stuff.

[Magna]

I think the reason the notion from power can't fly glider and vice versa is the learned habit or lacked of it.

Most power flyer(usually the glow) have problem with deadstick because of conditioned learning that they have. They just can't accept it that you can fly with marginal power of Sp400 or even a glider. Anything less than say 30mph is not ok!!! So when the glow power quit, and having little opportunity to explore the unpower glide, it can be heart wrenching. Also most glow model are not built as e power ie light and efficient airfoil so when power cut, it will have some issues if the speed are not keep up. They usually can't land at idle speed because the idle prop can be a good airbrake. Most setup will glide in with some power.

As for glider guys to power, they tend to be too reserve with the power and not exploring max deflection. Imagine a glider flyer were ask to fly 3D or acro. Though pattern can be easier transition for glider, at least for me because pattern flying require smooth movement.

BTW, I also fly 3D pattern on glow!

[Ollie]

One of the greatest differences I see between the power flier's approach and the sailplaner's approach is the attitude about and the reaction to turbulence and gusts. The power flier prefers smooth air and considers gusts, turbulence, wind shear, thermals and such to be annoyances that must be compensated for to achieve smooth flight. On the other hand, sailplaners view these things as energy sources to be exploited.

The aerobatic pilot trains himself to execute maneuvers relative to the earth rather than to the air mass the plane is flying in. The sailplaner strives to fly relative to the air mass. The two frames of reference diverge as the movement of the air mass increases relative to the earth.

The power flier wants to force nature into submission. The sailplaner wants to exploit nature to advantage.

[T. Lyttle]

This is always fun. I learned a lot of aerodynamics from control line (stop laughing!!), and energy management as well. My modelling mentor was a bear about weight, and until I paid attention to his methods my c/l models became greasy (!) crowbars when the prop stopped. Monkey see, monkey do, and before long a 1-lap glide (or more) was normal for my models. I took this philosophy into r/c, and it has yet to fail me, either for power or sailplane. Lots to learn out there, regardless of how long you have been in the hobby!

[viti]

ah yes ,thanks for sharing that with us,there is always something to learn,i also really like the way ollie pointed out how glider guiders like to exploit conditions,well put


another interesting this is that on the other thread tittled power guys cant fly,,there were many that feel the need to bash the power guys and not near as many that are willing to admit that there are things to learn from them:(

viti

[viti]

ollie,i know you have a very wide knowledge of aerodynamics,just for a point of interest could you please enlighten us a bit on what the glow guys have named ;;;high speed stall,seems with the advent of the hotliner,it may be something of some use hey arent hotliners powered??:D

viti

[Mr B....]

That's OK power guy's can't land died stick! When the wind starts blowing you all land.

This one of power vs glider things.

Some of us (Glider Modelers) fly anything that has wings indoor or out from free flight to RC XC.

[Sparky Paul]

Here's a photo I show the wind wimps at the field...
They go home when the sock gets more than 15 degrees off vertical..

[viti]

Originally posted by Sparky Paul
Here's a photo I show the wind wimps at the field...
They go home when the sock gets more than 15 degrees off vertical..

whats your point?? why should that bother anyone??

viti

[Daemon]

http://www.houseofthud.com/images/wind78mph.jpg

I waited a few minutes until it dropped to a steady 45mph or so before I threw my glider over the edge of the cliff. Can't say it was great flying (too much rotor over the mountains), but I did get it back on the ground in one piece.

ian

[T. Lyttle]

Viti, I see that you dig hang gliders, so do I. I may be able to find a photo of our old glider, replica of a 1901 Chanute, but it was restricted to butt-skimming (is that still a valid term?). I'll see what I have...

[Sparky Paul]

Originally posted by viti
whats your point?? why should that bother anyone??

viti
.
Doesn't bother me one bit!
All the guys aren't there, I can fly anywhere I want! :)

[Bernie Wolfard]

Glider flyers use gravity for power management, this is controlled with the elevator stick. Power guys manage the energy of the motor on the throttle stick. It is fun watching glider guiders learn how to fly power because they struggle so with the throttle stick. On the other hand piston heads have a hard time adapting to not having a throttle stick and using the elevator (gravity and wind energy) for energy management.

A note on elevator energy management: Push the stick down gain energy, loose altitude, pull stick back loss energy, perhaps gain altitude until energy equals zero then loose altitude.

My point is both disciplines use energy in different ways, there is no right or wrong way, and we can learn from both.

[AustinTatious]

Flutterbug,

WHen you push the stick forward, you dont gain energy! you simply convert it from potential to Kenetic!

And when you pull back, you convert kenetic to Potential ! hehe jsut wanted to clear that up ;-P

[Bernie Wolfard]

Just a fuel in a tank is potential energy and when powering an engine it kinetic. In either case the pilot manages energy.