Monokote, Oracover, what's the difference? [Archive]

kingbee

Nov 09, 2003, 01:51 PM

I've been using Monokote forever it seems but I'm wondering about alternatives. I see that a lot of ARFs are covered with Oracover. How does it compare to Monokote?

Specifically, does it add enough rigidity to open glider wings? And how does it work over solid sheeted areas?

I've never liked the way Monokote goes on over solid areas. Also, it may be my imagination but it seems like monokote lately has gotten more brittle than it used to be, and doesn't shrink as much as it used to.

What other coverings are suitable for gliders? What about Micafilm, has anyone used it on wings? It's said to be pretty strong and puncture resistant, a good thing where I fly.

Cheers,
Dave

KEZ

Nov 09, 2003, 05:32 PM

Hi Dave,

Like you, I have been looking for an alternative and recently I have tried Oracover/Ultracoat on wings and Easycoat and Econokote on fuse and sheeted wings.

I have found that while Oracover has less tendency to bubble, it does not add as much torsional rigidity as Monokote does on open structures. I do like, however, Oracover (and Easycoat) on sheeted surfaces.

It is not practical (and economical) to buy one covering material for wings and another for fuselages so I will stick with Monokote. This is just my preference. I have flying buddies who like Oracover though.

Kez

ejett

Nov 09, 2003, 05:59 PM

I have used Oracover with good success over sheeted areas. Here it is MUCH better than Monokote. However, Monokote seems to work better over open structures. Everything I have covered with Monokote has had to be re-shrunk over time, especially sheeted ares.

I have a Spectra I built years ago and the covering has stayed strong and tight throughout. It held up so well that I have been looking for some to use on a Chrysalis 2m and my use it on a Chrysalis HLG as well. I wound up buying Fibafilm from Balsa Products as an alternative to Micafilm. I have not used it yet.
Tower lists transparent red and transparent yellow Micafilm on their website. I'm gonna give the Fibafilm a try. I'll let you know how it comes out.

I have used Oracover lite as well and it is noticeably lighter and less strong than Monokote. A lot of the imports are using it though. Overall I'd say my experience has been that Oracover and Ultracote are easier to cover with than Monokote especially sheeted structures.

Your mileage may vary.

Ed Jett

Rob Nelson

Nov 11, 2003, 06:31 PM

I've wondered and asked advise on this forum regarding the use of Ultacote on open bay wings, since I prefer it to Monocote.
The recomondation was to certaily use Monocote on open bay wings, such as an Oly 2. Save the Ultracote for a "D" tube structure. I would tend to agree due to the apparent rigidity of Monocote.
I, however, have terrible luck with Monocote. Just can't seem to get it to work for me like Ultracote, whether it be over an open structure, or, most definetly a sold surface. Tried Monocote again last winter on my Oly 2 and absolutely hated my results. I ended up covering it with Ultracote, except the bottom of the main wing panels, and have no problems with flutter etc. Also have a GL covered in Ultracote and am extemely happy with it. I personally find the difference working with the two products like night and day.
I'm note blaming the Monocote product..just my skills! I'll happily accept any tips.
May try the Monocote again, but I'm planning to cover my BOT with Ultacote(I'd say Feb 04) unless somebody really twists my arm.
Anyone have any wieght fugures for these coverings. I am under the impression that Monocote is marginally lighter than Ultacote/Oracover
Cheers,
Rob

aeajr

Nov 13, 2003, 04:58 AM

I am new to covering.

I was given a sailplane that was covered in ultracote that needed a wing fixed. So I bought matching ultracote and found it very easy to use for the wing patch. The instructions say it has a two temperature process. 220 degress for tacking and 300 degrees for shrinking.

Do monokote and ultracote work in basically the same way?

I am about to completely re-cover the wings on a different plane, a great planes spirit, so I bought monokote for this one so the colors would match the fueslage.

Should I use similar techniques with temperature, tacking and shrinking that I used with the Ultra?

Any tips?

RSCherry

Nov 13, 2003, 10:00 AM

I simply follow the instructions that come with the Monocoat and have gotten good results in the past. I find that you must tack it carefully so a minimum amount of shrinking is necessary to get really good results. A heat gun is best for shrinking, I was never able to get all the wrinkles out using just a covering iron.

Bob

Pteradactyl

Nov 13, 2003, 10:22 AM

aeajr: The main thing you might have to do using Monokote would be to increase the temp a little for the standard colors. The "special" colors seem to go on better with temps closer to that of Oracover/Ultracote.

As far as any differences are concerned, the jury is still out for me. I covered a SIG Kadet Sr, with Monokote; I used a large roll of white for the basic cover. From the first time I flew it, even the most gentle landing produced what I feel were "stress splits". I used five other colors on it, Neon Green, Neon Blue, Transparent Red, Yellow and Orange (with a little silver trim for stars) and none of those other colors would split.

I have been using Ultracote exclusively on my sailplanes and so far have had no spitting. Holes from punctures when they slide into the brush, but not "cracks" or "splits"

MY Kadet finally got too close to a lone Mesquite branch on approach last week and was yanked out of the air. No visible structural damage, but the only white covering on the wing that didn't split from the two cartwheels (since I'm just a beginning flyer, I build 'em tough) was a section on one wingtip that had been patched with Ultracote.

I'll be recovering the entire plane with ultracote, even if I have to modify the color scheme. John

rcav8r2

Nov 13, 2003, 10:24 AM

Warning: Long post :D

I have posed this sort of question( with a twist) a few times on various forums, including this one. It seems not many have had the experience w/ Monocote that we have at our field.

The issue we're having is that after a few years Monocote shatters. I was a long time user of Monocote. About 5 or 6 years ago I noticed that it started to shatter really easily. I thought I had a bum roll, but more and more of my planes were shattering, and so were other guys at the field. I have a KAdet Sr that I recoverd about 3 or 4 times now because of this. My buddies have numerous plans that do the same thing, even the ARFS from GP.
Seeing the trend I switch to Ultracote about 4 or 5 years ago. My 4 or 5 year old MOrris knife was the first plane I used Ultracote on, and it is still nice and strong. A year or so back I dropped a 12.25x3.75 APC prop on the plane from a standing height. It landed tip first in the middle of a wing bay. Bounced up, and hit tip first again... then again. The 4th time it landed flat and slid off. REsult. 3 prgressivly smaller dimples. Removed with a heat gun in about 3 seconds. I have many many many stories of various planes shedding monocote in flight.

Here's a snip from a thread earlier this year.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110528&highlight=monocote

Some pics of the battle damage also.

I spoke to Great Pains about this at Toledo. Resutls were mixed. The one guy never ever heard of this, and it SHOULD never ever happen. He's covered 100s of planes and has never seen this. I asked him how long they have been flying. He siad he never had one last longer than a year. He asked for a sample to have his enginers look at. YEeeeaaaa

The next guy I asked stated this is perfectly normal and to be expected. He advises to re-coverer every 2 years just to be safe. Gee great sales pitch

The third guy I asked, asked me to hold on for a second, then went behind the curtain. I wanted about 10 minutes ( giving him the bennifit of the doubt) but he never showed... The old duck and cover routine.

BTW I have never had a strenght issue with Ultracote on open areas. Also I covered my E-KAdet and an E-3D with transparrent Ucaote, last winter. After a full summer of flying they still look great. I'm hoping they hold up well with time, but Idon't forsee any issues.

Pteradactyl

Nov 13, 2003, 10:45 AM

rcav8r2: Yup, thats what my Kadet looks like. I had been wondering, though... the roll of white was purchased from a LHS and just might have been sitting there for some time while the other colors were purchased from Tower (higher turnover?). At any rate, I'll be running my own tests, also. John

rcav8r2

Nov 13, 2003, 11:14 AM

Most of mine were purchased at the LHS. Can't say how long they were there, but I do remember they had the same "special offer" labels (free foot, 7 foot for the price of 6, free tack cloth inside, etc) on the rolls that were currently being advertised in the mags at the time.

sierra-gold

Nov 13, 2003, 11:40 AM

My experiences with MonoKote span 10-15 years. My oldest model with original covering was probably 4-5 years old and still touched up fine with a heat gun.

I found it more difficult to cover solid surfaces than Oracover.

I found transparent colors to develop brittleness worse than solids, especially transparent red.

MonoKote is heavier than some of the newer coverings... important with EP planes.

I feel that Monokote provides more strength for built-up glider wings. Shorter span power planes that don't winch/high-start launch probably aren't as concerned about that. I don't know if any comparative "tests" have been conducted in this area.

I recently covered a 60" park- flyer wing with MonoKote. It was much less "flexible" than the Oracover covered 47" wing for the same plane. Probably subjective, but I think it is considerably stronger with the MonoKote. :D

Sierra Gold

swooper

Nov 13, 2003, 12:18 PM

Micafilm is a good choice for gliders. Lots lighter than Mkote or Ucote and the fiber keeps small damage from growing. You have to paint the Balsarite adhesive on where you want it. This means more fumes and another step between adding pieces of covering (iron on a piece, add Balsarite at the overlap, add next piece, and so on). Micafilm doesn't shrink as much as the others so stretching it on is necessary. For wingtips and other compound curves I usually use something else, often an opaque light color.

BTW I've tried thinning Balsarite with acetone, it gets goopy after a while, but the results were bad.

I think either Mkote or Ucote work fine on open framework wings like Gentle Lady type. What don't work well are econokote-type stretchy films and Coverite type fabic.

Monokote and Ultracote both go on OK with practice but the technique is different. As state above, follow the directions. Monokote puts out gas so it's terrible for adding a 2nd layer (big trim). Ultracote is much better for this.

Any covering job will stay on better if the wing, for example, is vented. I provide small holes through every rib, shear web, etc. so that any bay in the wing can vent to the outside air. This will greatly help keep bubbles from forming in the heat of the afternoon.

Any covering takes practice to use perfectly, if one of the major brands doesn't give you good results the first time, it'll probably go a lot better the 3rd time.

I've seen Monokote split along a wing rib before, usually as a result of structural failure, though. I've never seen anything like the damage you're suffering in PA. I'd be afraid to fly with that going on. The question about cleaning fluid brought to mind, air pollution? If this thin film got real scratched up it would do that.
Sure hope you find a solution!

Pteradactyl

Nov 13, 2003, 02:41 PM

In my case, the Monokote started splitting on the first flight (landing, actually). There was no pattern - just small rips that might appear on the fuse one time and the wing another.

But as I have said, I'm still testing... John

rcav8r2

Nov 13, 2003, 03:18 PM

Actually I'm fairly certain that it's the UV. 99% of the my Kadet and 100% of the others at the field that do this are on the top and sides only. I had to re-cover the tops about twice as often as the sides. THe botom on my KAdet is original except for one place on the wing.

Air poilution is something we didn't consider, but we fly out in the boonies. ;)

John, will be interesting in your test results.

KEZ

Nov 13, 2003, 06:46 PM

In the last 20 years I have had only one Monokote splitting experience. It was in sub-zero temp as I took the wings from the trunk. A gentle tap against the door and the Monokote shattered like glass. I have used opaque and transparent colors and have not had similar incident since.

The oldest model I have is a 15 year old glow job covered in white and yellow and I have logged over 400 flights. The Monokote is still in very good shape.

I do notice there is batch to batch (roll to roll) inconsistancy. I have used a few rolls of white (the color I used the most) that were more pliable than others. I never used a heat gun to shrink the Monokote. Only glide the iron and shrink until the covering just tight. I don't know if it makes a difference.

Swooper, I have used paint (lacquer) thinner to thin Balsarite and it works very well. It is a mixture of toluene, methanol and xylene. If you don;t like solvent you can try Balsaloc which is water base. I am going to try Micafilm in my next HLG.

Kez

aeajr

Nov 14, 2003, 12:11 AM

Great info. Thanks to everyone.

viti

Nov 17, 2003, 10:48 PM

i dont have a clue why but i never use a heat gun either!!i just got used to using a iron and stuck with it ,it works great and i have used monokote for 20 years and never had a shatter yet [other than the odd crash]

i have heard guys bad mouth monokote many times over the years about it being brittle and i have often though i should try other coatings but everytime i try ultracoat i just dont see what the hype is about ,maybe its the heatgun that makes monokote brittle,seems to me im dont something right! i have more than 3 gliders that are over ten yrs old and once a yr i tighten them up ,,,with the iron of course

viti

Pteradactyl

Nov 17, 2003, 11:23 PM

I've been talking to the guys I fly with and only one other seems to have a problem with monokote like me. He's a quadraplegic, and I'm partially paralyzed on the entire left side.

In both ofour cases, we can't stretch the covering material by hand as much as the others. This results in our having to use a heat gun and much more heat/time to finish stretching it. Excessive heat could definitely have something to do with the brittleness.

Bear in mind that so far, I haven't seen the Ultracote shatter. But I've just begun using it, too. I've ordered that little "grabber" tool from Tower, so maybe I can pull the darn stuff a little tighter. John

viti

Nov 18, 2003, 07:43 AM

i can only help by trying to explain the way that i cover ,i tend to take my time getting the covering on with very little wrinkles,i want it to lay flat with no wrinkles ,then i tack it down in very small spots with low heat ,,,if i have to i lift it up again to ensure that its not being pulled

once im sure that its positioned right,i iron it down around the outside,then all that is left to do is tighten it up a bit,,i dont ever have a need to be pulling it tight by hand!! i also wait until both sides are covered before i do the final tighting,,

cheers viti

Pteradactyl

Nov 18, 2003, 11:23 AM

Maybe "stretch" was the wrong word to use. What I meant was that with much less feeling in my left hand and very little actual gripping strength, I can't tell when I'm gripping the material so that I can pull it tight while I'm tacking it. Usually what happens is that the material slips out of my grip and I end up with lots of "slack" in the covering.

I remember the first time I used Monokote in 1980 (on a Wanderer, by the way). I wasn't paralyzed at the time and did a great job using the wife's iron and her hair dryer. The Monokote lasted for a good five years with no sags, even. Maybe the heat guns we're using are hotter than necessary?

I do know that when I start using the gun, the material (no matter what brand) does some really weird "shifting" as it stretches! Kinda like it is turning inside-out? John

viti

Nov 18, 2003, 12:33 PM

i suggest trying the iron john ,i prefer it ,i get the impression that the heat gun pulls the covering more uneven than the iron and it must also be drier heat

cheers viti

Pteradactyl

Nov 18, 2003, 02:05 PM

I'll be doing that as soon as that little helper from Tower gets here. You just can't imagine the frustration that builds when your hand doesn't do what it's supposed to... especially when you reach for a wing or something and put your hand/fingers all the way through the covering!

And you're not even the sixmillion dollar man! John

Strykaas

Mar 16, 2008, 03:48 PM

Does anyone know a good place to order Oracover at a fair price ? Here it's quite expensive. Thanks !

ejett

Mar 16, 2008, 04:18 PM

You can get the same thing from Horizon Hobby. It's called Ultrakote. The solid colors are the same as Oracover, the backing has Oracover printed on it. I'm not sure about the transparents or the Ultrakote lite products, they come with a film backer unlike the Ultrakote opaques.

Hobby Lobby used to sell Oracover here, but not sure who does now.

The Oly III in my avatar is covered with Ultrakote transparent purple and yellow opaque.

EJ

ejett

Mar 16, 2008, 04:24 PM

Also, the only time I use a heat gun is if I have localized wrinkles that I can't get out with the iron. I use it as a last resort before pulling the covering and starting again. Sometimes it works out sometimes not.

EJ

Strykaas

Mar 16, 2008, 04:58 PM

Thanks for the input. Horizon Hobby indeed sells Ultrakote, but I can't find the dimensions for the mentioned 12.99 price... Did you order there ? Is it the usual 60 cm x 2 meter roll ?

markdrela

Mar 16, 2008, 06:59 PM

I noticed a lot of people refer to "Oracover/Ultracote" as though they are the same thing.

FWIW, I've used both Oracover-Lite (from Hobby People), and Ultracote-Lite (from Horizon Hobby), and I can assure you that they are definitely not the same thing --- not even close. Ultracote-Lite is vastly superior, because it doesn't fade, doesn't get loose with time, and it's adhesive doesn't creep in the sun. Oracover-Lite does do all these things --- blech.

I don't know how the regular-weight Oracover and Ultracote compare, since I never used them.

PS. From discussions with some European folks, it appears that Oracover and Ultracote names are reversed in Europe. i.e. Our Oracover Lite is their Ultracote Lite, and vice versa. Not sure how that happened.

ejett

Mar 16, 2008, 07:05 PM

Mark:

I don't know about the "lite" versions. But, the last rolls of yellow Ultracote had ORACOVER printed on the release paper liner when the package was opened. So, maybe the plot thickens as far as what is what.

EJ

schrederman

Mar 16, 2008, 09:06 PM

Still a Moneycote... er Monokote guy, myself. I like the extra stiffness.

Jack

Strykaas

Mar 17, 2008, 06:04 PM

"I don't know how the regular-weight Oracover and Ultracote compare, since I never used them."

They ARE the same. To convince yourslef, just check the manuf web site. According to your selected language, it will select the appropriate term (USA -> Ultracote / Germany -> Oracover).

http://www.buegelfolie.de/home.jsp?node_id=2005291153256425167

markdrela

Mar 17, 2008, 07:05 PM

They ARE the same. To convince yourslef, just check the manuf web site. According to your selected language, it will select the appropriate term (USA -> Ultracote / Germany -> Oracover). This doesn't prove anything --- it simply makes my second point: The names seem to be swapped between USA and Europe.
So we now know that Ultracote(USA) = Oracover(Germany).

But the question remains whether Ultracote(USA) = Oracover(USA).
I can assure you that Ultracote-Lite(USA) =/ Oracover-Lite(USA).

schrederman

Mar 17, 2008, 08:37 PM

I really am glad to hear that there are some folks that haven't given up because of some physical problems. I had to learn to play guitar twice... the second time after having surgery on my left hand. Hang in there... and my best regards...

Jack

ChuckA

Mar 17, 2008, 11:17 PM

Jim Barkdull

Dec 16, 2008, 04:44 PM

FrogChief

Dec 17, 2008, 12:13 AM

I just bought the BH MODELS T-28 TROJAN. It comes from Viet Nam and is beautifully built. It is fully covered with ORACOVER and it looks especially nice over the fully sheeted fuselage. My shop stays at 68°F all year. While putting it together the covering developed wrinkles where none were when I opened the box. I'm new to ORAVOCER and would like some idea of temperatures to get everything smoothed out without creating a bigger problem. I won't work on it until spring flying season - just 0°F outside right now. Any suggestions will be appreciated............Jim

Jim,

Just be sure your workshop is a nice comfortable temp (60-70F) and break out your covering iron.

Set the iron to 300F and just slowly wave it over the area to be smoothed out. Easy as that!

You'll see the film srink...so you should easily be able to judge when to stop.

-Sean

marc 540

Dec 17, 2008, 04:05 AM

I just covered my BOT with trans. ultracote lite and on the backing it say's oralite and ultracote lite. I bought it from Horizon hobby. BTW it was very nice to work with...just like the standard ultracote covering. Even used the same temp's for tacking and shrinking. The hardest thing about the lite was separating the clear backing from the covering but in some way's that's good because the backing will stay put when you want it to.

Marc 540

bps

Oct 04, 2009, 07:46 AM

I find Monocoat increasingly more difficult to use, and I have been using this stuff for a long time. Econocoat on the other hand seems to still cover very well, great adhesive, great shrink and decent color. The trade off between these two Top Flight products is of course strength. The Econocoat is a much lighter material, but a better choice than Monocoat for most of my applications. It sticks and stays stuck. I am currently finishing up a 30% BD8 and was planning on cover with Monocoat so I purchased a large roll of white......big mistake. After covering the stabs and rudder the stab developed a 1/2" long crack in the covering after shrinking. The crack showed up a couple of days later! I have decided not to use this cover on this plane and am currently considering painting after covering with Koverall.

flyb0y

Oct 04, 2009, 12:15 PM

I have been a Super Monokote user for 40 years now but just switched to Ultracote.The last few rolls of Monokote that I bought are not the same product I used for so many years. The new stuff is not the same color even though the label is the same and it is very difficult to shrink. I still have a few rolls of Monokote but not buy any more when I use up the rolls I already have.

I Agree with ChuckA. I have a 20 year old plane covered in white and transparent blue. The old stuff is great, but when I did some repair work this year with a new roll of white it was absolutely AWEFUL. It shrinks about .0001% so unless you can stretch it tight prior to shrinking forget it.

I wrote to TopFlite and told them how utterly disappointed I was in thier product and got "NO" response from them at all!

In short I will never buy another roll of monokote.

J.