Columbus Indoor Flying

[Don Leitz]

The CIFA (Columbus Indoor Flight Association) has scheduled 4 events for the same golf dome that was used for the JR Indoor festival that was held on Oct. 11th.

The dates are: Nov 8, Nov 22, Dec 6, Dec 20. All times are 9-11 PM.

If you went to the JR Festival, you know that this is a very nice venue for indoor flying, with enough area and height for all IPS sized (150-180) and some Speed 280/300 sized planes. I plan on going on at least some of these dates. If anyone is interested in carpooling or meeting up there, please let me know: dleitz@choice.net

More info here: http://www.tooltex.com/winter%20schedule.htm

[tiggs]

Don,
I am currently planning to be in Columbus the weekend of Dec 6th christmas shopping, so I will most likely be there. I may be able to get a pass to go up one of the other nights as we get closer. We could carpool if you think we can get all of our planes into the back of my car :D

I agree, it is a beautiful facility, and the hours seem to be those that we were talking about for the soccer place here in town.

Ted

[Don Leitz]

Ted,
Sounds like there's a good chance you can make it to a couple of sessions - these planes don't take up a lot of space, so probably either of our cars would work if we can minimize the support equipment that we take along.

Here's a couple of planes I've been working on. The first one is an "E-spresso" from Stevens Aero. Direct drive GWS with a 3x2 prop on a 340 2S1P pack. It's intended to be an indoor pylon racer, so I'm not sure what to expect as I haven't flown it yet. It's tiny (at least compared to my other planes), as you can see in relation to the pop can. All-up weight is 3.7 ounces.

[Don Leitz]

This one's called the "Nutta", and was made from 3mm Depron. I downloaded the plans from David Theunissen's website: http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/index.htm

All-up weight is 5.0 ounces with a GWS "A" drive and 340 2S1P pack. Also waiting for a suitable time to test fly this one as well.

[Don Leitz]

I plan on going up this Saturday evening (9-11). Is anyone else going?

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

Where did you buy the depron for the Nutta? I would like to build an indoor plane, I saw some plans call for fanfold which I think I can get at Lowes. Is there a difference between depron and fanfold?

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

I got the Depron from http://www.depronusa.com/
I used 3mm black (gray) throughout. There is a difference between Depron and fanfold - the depron is lighter, but perhaps not as strong. I really like working with Depron - it's fairly rugged, easy to cut and sandable. I think it's a better choice for indoor planes, and is available in smaller quantities than fanfold.

Let me know if you decide to order some - I may need to place another order myself.

Don

[nimwegen]

Don,

Do you remember how many sheets are needed and of what size?

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

For the Nutta, I think I used one 3mm sheet, 19" x 27", and had some left over. I'll check the sheet size when I get home tonight. Next time, I would order the larger 15" x 39" sheets, as they are only $.50 more. The grain needs to run span wise on the wing and horizontal stab. The carbon rods and tubes I had on-hand from http://ecom.citystar.com/hang-em-high/

BTW - the Nutta has been flown a few times now. I changed to conventional gear (two front wheels) instead of the one fun-fly wheel. It flies nice and slow with the 340 pack and GWS DX-A drive with 10x4.7 prop. Rolls are fast, loops are sloppy. It also flies OK with a Kokam 1020 2S1P pack, but needs to fly a little faster and is not as nimble as I can't get the pack back far enough to achieve the correct CG position due to the location of the other gear. I like the way it flies with the 340 packs, and get 15 minutes duration, so I don't intend to move any gear to accomodate the larger pack.

The E-spresso has also flown a few times and is a real hoot, but it's too fast for comfortable flying indoors.

[nimwegen]

Don,

Where can I find some info on the E-spresso? How did the indoor flying go last night?

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Marcel,
The indoor flying is this Saturday night, not last night - want to go?

The E-spresso kit is available from Stevens Aero: http://www.stevensaero.com/

It's an easy to build kit that can be framed in one evening and covered in another. You need to use very light covering, however, such as Solite which I find somewhat hard to apply (probably due to my inexperience with it).

Don

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

I need to build a plane first. The you think the Nutta would be a good first indoor plane?

Thanks,

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Either the Nutta or the "And Now" would make a good first indoor plane. Easy to fly and moderately aerobatic. Having said that, if you want to just fly slow indoors and don't care about aerobatics, I think the GWS Tiger Moth is hard to beat.

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

More questions.... What's a good place to buy the GWS motor/gearbox/prop and the kokam cells?

THanks,

Marcel.

[nimwegen]

Don,

I am ready to order some depron, what would you like for me to order too? Apart of the color is there any other diffs between grey and white depron?

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

I bought my last two packs of kokam 340 2s1p from http://www.lightflightrc.com/ I don't think it's a good idea to try to build your own packs, as the tabs are fragile and hard to solder to. I have also bought from http://www.b-p-p.com/

GWS motors/gearboxes are available from several sources - try http://www.azarr.com/ or http://www.toddsmodels.com/ I use the IPS"A" motor/gearbox on my Nutta, Mini Gee-Bee, and Tiny-X.

Let me know if you want to see and/or fly my Nutta before making a decision.

Don

[Don Leitz]

"I am ready to order some depron, what would you like for me to order too? Apart of the color is there any other diffs between grey and white depron?"

No difference that I know of beside color. If it's not too much trouble, could you order me 2 sheets of White 3mm 19x27 and 1 sheet of white 6mm 13x19 and 1 sheet of white 2mm 15x24. Thanks.

Don

[Don Leitz]

Forgot that you can order packs and motors from www.balsapr.com , as well as other items.

[nimwegen]

Don,

I ordered the Depron. Thanks for all the good info.

Marcel.

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

I think I will build the "And_Now?" first. www.balsapr.com seems to have all the components I need. I think I will go with NiMHs cells since I have a charger that supports these. I will let you know when the Depron arrives.

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

The And Now design requires less carbon parts, as I recall. It may also fly a little slower than the Nutta due to more wing area, so it would probably be a better choice for the heavier NiMH cells. Switching to LiPO packs requires a commitment in chargers, batteries, and discipline to keep from burning the house down ;-) , so staying with NiMH is probably a good idea, at least at first.

Thanks for ordering the Depron. I'll split the shipping with you.

BTW- stopped over at the Wall-To-Wall indoor soccer facility last night. It's huge! We could easily fly park flyers and Zagis on the large field, and the small field is plenty large for planes like your Albatross. If we can work a deal, we will probably choose the smaller field.

Don

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

I am somewhat confused with all the different GWS motors, for the And_now the recommended motor is the IPS 5.8:1 geared, is this the same one as this one?

IPS-A Indoor Power System (IPS-DX2BB-AXCS)

Link: http://www.balsapr.com/common/searchSingleView.asp?ProductId=gws001

Thanks,

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Yes, the 5.8:1 is the "A" drive - same as I use on most of my planes. Uses a 9x7 or 10x4.7 orange prop on 7 cells.

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

So how was Columbus? That looks like a huge dome. When will we have our first indoor flight evening in Mason? I know, questions questions questions...... ;)

Later,

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Columbus was fun. A bit of a long drive to do alone, but I enjoyed the flying.

The space in the dome is really a lot larger than necessary for most of the planes. In fact, there were a couple of times that I almost lost orientation because I had flown too far away. The big thing, of course, is 3D, with many planes hovering and tumbling in one corner of the dome while everyone else flew the pattern. At times there were probably 12 planes in the air, so you really had to pick an altitude and watch out for traffic. I flew for several laps directly above or below another plane.

The Nutta (and I would also think the And_Now) was perfect for indoor flying. Slow enough that I wasn't constantly turning, moderately aerobatic and quick to react when I needed to change direction to avoid another plane. I ended up flying it and my Mini-Gee Bee most of the time. I only flew my Tiny-X for 5 minutes or so, and probably won't bring it back up again, as the Nutta seems better suited to that space.

The majority of planes were foam, either Depron or fan-fold, and most had flat (no airfoil) wings.

On the subject of the indoor soccer field, I tried to contact the manager last Friday, but was unable to. I will try again on Monday. Hopefully, if we can come to some reasonable agreement for the rental rate, we can start flying there within the next few weeks. I'll post in this forum when I learn more.

BTW- I ordered some carbon from a new source: http://www.airdyn.com/ Also, David McCarthy runs a small business selling some indoor equipment in Columbus: http://liteflyrc.com/ He has a good deal on GWS receivers - RX, crystal, and his design small antenna all for $35.00

Don

[tiggs]

Just got caught up on this thread. Sorry I couldn't join you Don, I was splitting wood this last weekend, and I have to work this Saturday coming up.

The new issue of Backyard flyer has a construction article of an aerobatic flyer for GWS power. i may give it a try.

I am really hopeful we can get an indoor venue, as these planes eem to be coming along by leaps and bounds.

Ted

[Don Leitz]

Hi Ted,
Sorry you couldn't make it up on Saturday. It wasn't nearly as crowded in the dome as during the JR festival, so if you didn't mind a little company in the air, you could fly whenever you wanted to. The next meeting time is 11/22.

I tried to reach the Wall2Wall manager again today with no success. Hopefully, I can get a hold of him tomorrow. It's a very nice space that would lend itself well to indoor flight.

What kind of plane is in Backyard Flyer? I just enlarged some plans I got off of the Ezone indoor forum for a Sukhoi profile plane. The plans are for a 36" wingspan, but I reduced them to 24" for IPS power. I'm not sure yet if I am going to go for the lightest setup with an "A" drive and my 340 2S1P packs or use the dual "B" drive, a big prop, and buy a new 3s1p pack for more powerfull hovering. Even though I have enough black Depron already, I'm not going to start cutting until I receive the white Depron from Marcel, as I want to be sure I can see this one at all attitudes!

This is getting addicting - these foam planes build in a day or two, are relatively cheap, and flying indoors beats braving the cold! Something to look forward to this winter.

Don

[tiggs]

Dave Robelen callls it "The Pattern Babe"

28.75" WS
194 sq in WA
5.7 oz

GWS hybrid set-up...
IPS E with the DF motor and 9x7 prop

It looks like something that can easily be finished in a month or less, not many parts!

Ted

[Don Leitz]

"It looks like something that can easily be finished in a month or less, not many parts!"

I can hardly remember the last time it took me a month to build a plane! In this age of ARFs and laser-cut kits, that's an eternity ;-)

Seriously, I'll have to take a look at that issue.

Don

[tiggs]

Well, either I'm a really slow builder, or the 15 minutes every 4-5 days or so I can spend building are just not enough! ;)

Do you remember what the BL motor-gear combo you were going to recommend for my Alliance? We were talking about it in Columbus.

Ted

[Don Leitz]

Ted,
For me it's basically a binge-building thing. I either can't get motivated to start, or when I do, I can't stop until it's done. I have a long list of projects for this winter, so it had better be the latter condition soon!

The motor is a MP Jet 25/35-20 MKII (http://www.mpjet.com/frame_en.php) with 3:1 gearbox. I run mine with a 10x7 prop on my Three-Dee with a TP2100 3S1P pack, but a 10 cell pack should be fine. You may also be able to prop down to a 9x7 prop and still have very good thrust, as the Three-Dee goes straight up and weighs 22 oz. If you decide to get one, make sure that you get a MKII version, as it's a much milder wind than the original. I am using a Castle Creations Pheonix 25 with good results.

Don

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

The Depron is in, let me know if you want to meet up during the week or if I should bring it on Sat?

I am also looking for some 3-4mm carbon rod for the wing spar of the And_Now. I rather not place an order for just one piece, do you know of any local places that might have this?

Thanks,

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Marcel,

I think I have a 3mm and a 4mm tube that I can give you. Saturday would be fine for me picking up the depron unless you want to get started on your plane earlier and need the tube before then. I also have some 1mm x 3mm rectangular carbon rods in 36" lengths. One of these should be strong enough for a spar, gives a cleaner installation, and is much easier to install - just slice the wing completely spanwise and sandwich the rod in between the two wing pieces.

Don

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

Cool, what would be a good evening to meet up? I am open most evenings except tonight.

Thanks,

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Marcel,
Probably Wed. or Thu. night is best for me.

Don