Wattage Turbo Vector, finally got it!

[Lightnin]

It finally arrived, My new Wattage Turbo vector. This plane looks like it will be fun to put together and fly. Has anyone put one together? I will try to include some pics in case anyone is interested. I think this is going to be a great plane and EDF trainer.:cool:

[Ed Waldrep]

The contstruction looks a bit complicated but nothing insurmountable. I've seen one fly, it went pretty well with the stock setup. If I got one I'd paint it up like a RFB Fantrainer, there's lots of color schemes out there for it. The graphics it comes with look rather gaudy and toyish. Kinda like those teenage console game magazines with all the bright neon colors...gives me vertigo! The German airforce has some fantrainers that have a camo scheme, looks sharp.

[monkamarm2000]

I'd like to see pics of it.

Barry

[Racebelly]

I've been eyebaling this one eveytime I go to Hobby People. It definitely needs a diferent paint scheme. But, maybe I'll have break down & buy one. I'm interested to get a full flight report.

-Mark

[Lightnin]

I got started on the Vector last night. This is an overview of my mess. Can see the foam fuse and some of the misc. parts.

[Lightnin]

The Vector construction is unusual to me. The re is a plastic molded sheet contains several parts that must be cut out and attached to foam to create structure/strength. The cut out lines are very hard to see and it is a time consuming project. I decided to get it all out of the way last night, even though I will not some of the parts untill later.

[Lightnin]

Here is a close up of the middle of the tail section I completed last night. The large hole with the wires sticking out is where the EDF goes. You can see the plastic pieces on the edges. The motor wires and servo extension are concealed under the plastic on the bottom and top respectively. The binder clips are used to keep pressure on the plastic while the epoxy is setting (per the instructions). This kit seems to be very complete, the instructions can be a little vague but the pictures make up the difference. I agree about the graphics/color scheme. But, I have built one other Wattage plane and found that (for me) it is hard not to use the graphics included because they actually add strength. Along with cutting out all of the plastic pieces this much of the project took about 3 hours.

[Ed Waldrep]

Well the decals might add some stregth if you put them on under tension but those wings are the same as the Mig 15 I fly and there's no decals on them and they've held up fine.

Here's a color scheme from a full size fantrainer, or is that a model, or just really tall grass?:confused:

[Lightnin]

Thats really good to know can you tell me how the wattage foam wings hold up to model paint? will it melt them?. I am also worried about the foam fuse. I would love to paint it insead of using the decals if it won't cause more problems. That is a beautifull model too.

[Ed Waldrep]

Use the Testors model paints, the sprays are ok on foam except for maybe the buffing metalizer paints. The plain label Testors and the Model Master series are ok for foam, and they have a nice color range. The Tamiya sprays or ok on foam as well as has been mentioned before.

You don't want to use glow resistant type paints. A lot of them eat foam.

[Lightnin]

Hmmm. I just happen to have some metallic flake purple and lime green Testors. Sounds bad but it actually makes a nice contrast. Thanks for the info. We will see how motivated I get.

[monkamarm2000]

And depending on how much you plan to power it later on think about a carbon spar.

Barry

[Lightnin]

Here are some views after about 6 more hours of build time.

[Lightnin]

#2

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#3

[Lightnin]

#4 I must admit I was wary about the structure of this plane. But, after you epoxy on foam piece after foam piece and tie it into the rest of the structure it gets pretty rigid. I still have worries about crash survivability i.e. a hard landing but I hope I won't find out about that. I got engrossed in the project and forgot to take pictures along the way. But I can tell you that the main wing needs alot of attention particularly putting on the reinforcement board and posistioning the aileron torque rods. The fan unit is not too bad, time consuming if you break the motor in like the instructions suggest. A little planning when putting together the moter makes a big difference. I had a little drag on the impeller at first, I used an E-zoners tip and just let the motor run at slow speed for awhile to wear off a little material on the ends of the impeller. I don't like the strength of the T tail joint the instructions say it gets better once the elevator servo is installed but I think it could be better. I guess for me the main thing with this kit is to not be shy about using your own knowledge to make small changes to the pieces to make everything work better together as a unit.

[Lightnin]

fuse sides mated to wing.

[Lightnin]

Here's looking at ya.

[Lightnin]

top view

[Lightnin]

flying on the laundry basket!

All that is left is servos, trim etc.etc. Hope to maiden saturday.

[monkamarm2000]

cool deal. I just scavenged the wings off my Hawk to build one of these for kicks. Should be a great flier. I see they used the hawk elevator too. And yeah if you plan to hotrod it dont even bother with the tape just go for a CF spar as long as you can. I found that these wings with the tape on it are good for about 85 mph then you get creases at the end of the tape. at 95 mph and up they break off there.

Barry

[Lightnin]

At the risk of sounding stupid.......could you explain a little more? Is it the elevator that needs reinforcement? the wing? both. From my own observations I would say the elevator needs help but I would like to draw on your experience if you will. TX

[Grejen]

Would this plane also make a good aileron trainer? I've wrung out the Beaver and will be looking for something faster and prep for flying EDF. I also fly a pretty fast R/E glider.

[ryan d.]

Grejen,

I can't speak for this plane, but the turbo hawk is a nice flyer, and would make a great edf prep plane.

ryan d.

[Lightnin]

Grejen,

I went from a firebird, to FMS wing, to tangent, to mustang, and now Vector. When I was ready for ailerons an experienced flyer recommended a flying wing "foam" best advise I ever took. Things that bounce are really good for aileron trainers. Some of the experienced flyers I fly with tell me I could be called a strong intermediate pilot. Myself I think I am prob a intermediate at some level I guess. The Vector is supposed to be pretty fast and agile, I am glad it was not my choice for an aileron trainer. Also I am a little nervous about getting used to the power curve on the EDF. I estimate the flying wing saved me at least 4 to 5 airplanes. It still freaks me out but I have people asking me to check out and test fly their models it doesnt seem right. I give credit to good advise and instruction from fellow flyers, the foam wing and lots of flight sim experience. But that is just me best of luck with your decision.

[monkamarm2000]

Lightnen the tail is fine as long as you dont hit the ground with it too much. But the wing was what needed reinforcement. And the Turbo Hawk is just a great all around plane, very very forgiving of CG also, but this should be a nice plane also witht he same wing as the Hawk. I would say that maybe this has a bit more potential for aerobatices with the wing being mounted lower. With the High wing and low point of gravity on the Hawk it's very forgiving. But this isn't to say that this will be twitchy by any means.

[Lightnin]

monkamarm2000,

Can you give me an idea of mph the Thawk or Vector should fly?

[AirX]

I am sure Barry will chime in soon but my T-Hawk with the 8 cell pack is arround 45 to 50, with the 10 cell NIHM pack it is arround 60. the 8 cell pack is lighter not as much power, the ten cell is heavier goes faster and lands a little hot all with the stock motor. Lotsa fun.

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Lightnin]

Thanks,
I guess then, that since I will be running the 10 cell pack I could expect a little increase over the Thawk due to a little better aerodynamics. No external pod.

[AirX]

I dont know if there is going to be much difference in speed, the podded installation is more efficient than putting th efan behind the fuselage. I really dont think there is going to be a lot of difference though. The 10 cell pack makes the plane hot on landing and expect to have a few repairs in the tail due to the plane skidding and tumbling on occasion. All in all these are the most fun I have had in years.

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Grejen]

Thanks Lightnin. I started with foam, so it looks like I'm back to it. I'm not a fan of Wings at all though.

[Lightnin]

Finally got the courage up to maiden the Vector! whoooo hooooo! is she fast. If you guys havent seen a Vetor fly you need to. It could not have been better, a friend launched her for me and said something about when I get her trimmed I could do something and I had to reply what trimming. She needed no trim whatsoever! I held full throttle and she just kept going up up up. Maybe we are EDF challenged over here, but even the LHS owner said he had never seen an EDF fly like that. When I brought it down for landing it took forever to bleed off the speed so beware ! I bet it took me a good hudred yards to land.

[gregg f]

we had one show up at our flyin Sunday. it looked like it flew very well..........

[AirX]

Congrats, Lightnin, the Wattage fan performs pretty well for a stock item. I had a rough weekend on the little T-Hawk and had to repair the horizontal stab again. Love the performance but the 10 cell pack glides like a brick. :)

Have fun...

Cheers,

Eric B.

[monkamarm2000]

picked the ground on landing Eric? thats my only complaint on mine. every so often the L.E corners of one of the tails catches and comes loose. I almost want to try dihedral on it.

Barry

[Lightnin]

Totally finished Vector

[Lightnin]

side view

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My mustang for kicks

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The "Hanger"

[Lightnin]

The Micro Jet

[AirX]

Yeah, I stalled and bounced it in. The 10 cell 1100 nihm pack is heavy for the plane and I got a little behind it on the landing sunday, been couple of weeks since I took it out or anything else for that matter.

All better now ready for the weekend. ;)

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Lightnin]

I have put in several flights on the Vector now and am very pleased. This little plane is getting alot of attention around here. I don't think most people have had the opportunity to fly or see one fly. This thing is FAST and unbelievable performance for the price. I can't understand why Wattage is not promoting this plane more. Maybe we live a sheltered life down here in NM but I have recieved nothing but compliments on my Vector. PS if you get one, paint the underside of the wing a good contrasting color from the very start.

[turbovector]

Oh my! Someone else that flies a Vector! I'm not alone! I love the way it flies, everyone at the field was amazed when they saw how fast it was for a stock setup. Handles like a dream too. Definetely FAST on the landings. It cost me 7 stitches in my leg (careless with the exacto blade during the build), but this plane was worth it. I decided on the carbon wing spar (internal) before starting the build. Anyone have some speed stats for this zippy little edf? I can outrun a Zagi XT flying level, but would like more accurate measurements. :eek:

[Lightnin]

Glad to see another Vector flyer. Mine is still going strong. I firmly believe this plane would be scary fast with a brushless. I estimate mine moves at 75-80 in level flight but, don't have a real radar gun, sorry.

[turbovector]

I almost have to find a radar gun now. They say the Zagi XT does 70mph level so 75-80 sounds about right for the Vector. Can't wait for the weather to improve so I can get some more time in on mine.

[Lightnin]

I am just finishing a zagi xt so it will be interesting to fly it and then fly the vector

[turbovector]

I'm guessing you're setting up your xt in stock trim? If so, it'll be nice to have another comparison to guesstimate their relative speeds. I don't have the means to post a picture of my Vector, but to give you an idea, think skulls/tribal/black fire, over the stock paint. Kind of a scary/fast look, thought it would fit the plane well. Definetely want to know how the xt does when you're finished, the one I flew with was impressive for a brushed-motor Zagi. The new reverse motors seem to make a difference.

[Lightnin]

I put a reverse timed zagi motor in a Microjet and it performed well. I don't know if the zagi will do the advertised 70 mph here in New Mexico (higher altitude) but it might, if do some prop changing. I have been out of town so it will prob be this weekend before XT is finished and flying.

[turbovector]

You must have better conditions to fly in than I do, I haven't been in the air for well over a month! Last summer I put a reverse motor in my sky scooter and it definetely made a difference, better climb angle and top speed. What cells will you use in the xt?

[Lightnin]

We are fortunate here in NM, we have more flyable days than unflyable. In fact, getting shut out completely is pretty rare. But, we pay for it in the summer with high heat. I have two batteries from Trick RC to try. 1 1700 SCR NiCD and 1 1800 NimH I think that the NimH is going to be the ticket it is much lighter.

[turbovector]

I could probably live with the heat compared to the 10 inches of snow we got here today! From what I remember, the 1700 NiCd was the pack I saw being used. Good power and about 7-10 minutes in the air. He was thinking about trying matched 2400 NiCd's to squeeze out a little more time/power. I hear the new crop of NiMh's are pretty good for high amp output. I use KAN 1050 NiMh's for my 'Vector and they do great for the $$, but I don't think they have the amps for 2 motors.

[Lightnin]

I am using the recommended high output wattage 1100 NimH batteries in my Vector they took some breaking in but heat is no longer an issue and they work great. I usually land the Vector long before the batteries run out because I run out:)

As for the heat down here? Just remember what Wiley Coyote looks like burnt to a crisp that’s what it feels like. We get day after day of oppresive heat and swamp coolers will only take off about 30 degrees at best. And if it rains, forget it the humidity takes away the effectiveness of the swamp coolers and you just deal with it. We have the highest light itensity of the North American continent. Don’t get me wrong I know the cold sucks too, but there is a reason snow birds leave here in the summer.

[turbovector]

Cold I can deal with, I came from Alaska. What kills my fun is too much wind/rain. Gotta love the Pacific NW. Most of the time, the ground is just too wet to land on (maybe I should get a float plane). What is Wattage asking for their packs? I don't mind assembling my own, so I end up spending about $23 a pack. I also land with power, and adrenaline to spare (10 min. flights).

[Lightnin]

I don't remember exactly but I am sure it was not more than $30 bucks. I used to have a sweet deal, I could buy things at cost.

[turbovector]

Not too bad, the best I could find them anywhere was $39.99 + shipping. Do the wattage packs give about the same run time as my KAN's? Also, I couldn't tell from the pics, but did you go with stock canopy mounting?

[Lightnin]

I run some Kan 950's in another plane that pulls about the same volts/amps and I think I am getting a little more with the wattage 1100's. They last a long time longer than me.
As for the canopy, originally I used the stock configuration. I have since scrapped that and went to little strips of velcro all the way around the edge of the canopy. I am much happier with this set up. Take those two little screws and find a better home for them. The velcro works great and creates a very small gap between the mounting surface and the canopy which increases cooling (mine was getting a little hot) which eliminated two problems with one fix.

[turbovector]

From what I understand, KAN designed the 1050's with lower internal resistance than the 950's. The guys I fly with said they noticed a substantial increase in peak power with less heat and almost no weight difference. I decided to go with a hinged canopy on mine (sliced my leg making it) to make access to the battery/switch almost instant. I used a nylon hinge, nut, screw, and a little plastic weld to fabricate a quick opening lid. It latches with a nylon screw that is easy to turn by hand, but won't vibrate loose. When you say 'hot', are you referring to the speed control or the battery? The most either of mine get are warm.

[Lightnin]

The Wattage batteries had a tendency to get hot when they were new even though I broke them in but they are fine now they only get a little warm. Oh BTW my 950's will take 1050 befor peaking I wonder if they dicovered this and started selling them as 1050's?

[turbovector]

It's a possibility. Maybe their first few batches weren't all that good. My charger doesn't show milliamps (Hitec CG-340) so I can't say for sure if there is a difference. The website I bought mine from carries both and sells them at different prices. Have you flown the xt yet?

[Lightnin]

I tried to fly it this morning but the radio I go with it is very different (HItec Neon) than my usual so I am having a hard time. I think I just about had it up (one more try would have done it) when I broke a prop and the D**N soccer mom's with kids in tow showed up so I gave it up for the day. I put a new prop on and will try again tommorrow unless somthing changes my plans. I think all I need to do is get it up and trimmed and get used to the reactions on this radio and I'll be fine.

[turbovector]

Soccer moms! I can't stand them! They come out on a public field and think they own it! Is the xt your first wing? My associate went through 2 Zagi's and a Combatwing before he got the xt. He did say it was twitchy at first, probably the higher speed/power. Gotta run, someone needs help with their Ofna car (ground vehicles...eeewwwwwww). Hopefully tomorrow will be better luck, let me know.

[Lightnin]

XT is my second wind I also have an FMA Razor I but a cobalt 400 on (flies good), Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[turbovector]

Now I know why I switched to electric. "It can't be a fouled plug, I just bought it" he says. "Ahhh yes, welcome to the world of nitro" is my standard response. So, do you have anyone you trust enough to fly either the 'Vector or the xt for a side by side comparison? The way the weather is going here I probably won't be able to get in the air for awhile. Guess that's why birds fly South.

[RPM]

Did anyone else have a CG problems with this plane I had to add 1/2 oz of lead to the tail to get it to come in.

[turbovector]

Are you referring to the Turbo Vector? Or, even though we kind of strayed off the thread topic, the Zagi xt?

[RPM]

Sorry, the turbo vector.

[turbovector]

I can't say i've heard of anyone having to add that much extra weight to balance it out. With mine I just moved the battery back a little. Did you install all the components in the recommended locations?

[RPM]

Yes, all of the components went in the described locations. The battery I am using is a Hecell 10 cell pack and HS-50 servos.

[Lightnin]

Wow, that seems strange to me I was forced to move the battery as far forward as possible to get perfect balance. But I am using the recommended battery. Hmm interesting.

[RPM]

I thought that the Hecell was pretty close if not the same size as the recomended battery but maybe not.

[monkamarm2000]

that sounds weird RPM, if naything I found this plane the most CG friendly one I have ever owned.

Barry

[RPM]

Now you are all making me nervous. I am going to check the CG again to make sure that I'm not crazy. I have yet to fly the thing.

When I put it up on the CG Machine it was tail heavy as heck.

I looks like it will be wicked fast. I think I need a bigger park than I usually fly my ElectraJet in.

[RPM]

And just for everyone's Information I am using the stock motor setup and a GWS 4 chan. micro receiver and a 15A ESC.

[turbovector]

The schoolyard I fly at is about 300x200 yards, plenty of room despite it's speed. So...yes, it is fast, even in stock trim. Give yourself at least 150 yards for your first landing. After that you be the judge. This plane lands hot, so plan for about a 30-50 foot slide when it touches down. Make sure to give it a healthy toss when you launch it too. Good luck on your maiden, I think you'll like this plane.

[Lightnin]

I second all the above, when I land this thing I have been basically flying it into the ground on the frist hop just to bleed off some speed it bounces about three times before completely stops (that's for a short landing) If I let it bleed out on its own it takes forever to land.

[turbovector]

Off topic again, but I have to know...has the xt flown yet?

[Lightnin]

No, I sat on my lazy behind most of yesterday, picked up the dog stuff and took out the trash. Had to work today, I gotta quit this work stuff its gittin in the way of my flying. I am contemplating changing the low rate throws on the XT before I (try to) fly it again. The destruction book sayw 3/8 inch elevator and 3/4 aileron throws but I think I need a smaller low rate. I don't know may I just need to get it up high and trimmed and them everything will be ok. That's usually the way it works with me. I have flown so much junk that other people can't fly. The locals sometimes give me the stuff they can't make fly and I make it fly. If I can get it up high I can usually make it fly pretty good. This weekend for sure but, if the weather keeps doing what it did today (70+ degrees and just the hint of a breeze) I may take off work and go fly.

[turbovector]

You're killing me with those weather reports! (can you say 48 deg. and rainy) All I can do is cycle my packs and keep looking out the window. Big expo in 3 weeks, maybe that'll lift my spirits. Just out of curiosity, how did you set up the control throws on your 'Vector at first?

[turbovector]

:eek: RPM - Have you flown it yet? :eek:

[RPM]

I was going to after I got off work yesterday, but I never got out.

[Lightnin]

I set up my Vector with minimal throws, am just now ready to set up the High rates.

[turbovector]

I must enjoy taking risks, after mine was all assembled it had full throws so I took a chance and left it that way. Sure made the first flight a nail-biter! But on the second flight...yeeeeehaaawwwww!!! I'm glad I built in the carbon fiber or I probably would have folded the wings. I put it through the wringer the best my limited experience would allow. Quite agile I must say. When you set the max throws, be ready, it will surprise you with how crisp it responds. It never snapped out of anything I did, but I wasn't pushing the edge that day.

[turbovector]

:) RPM - we eagerly await your flight report :)

[RPM]

Once again I had good intensions. Great weather today, should have been off at 1500. Did it happen? No, had to work late again and it was dark before I got home. Maybe tomorrow. :mad:

[Lightnin]

Well I should clarify and say that my rates are just short of the high rates I set up high/low rates but I need to move the control arms to the outer holes on the servo arms to get the "full" high rates. Turbovector you are right this plane (I think) has been missed by most of the electric community is responds quickly and crisply and has no nasty habits that I have found thus far. I can tell you from experience that in the stock configuration I don't think you can fold the wings I have done 100+ mph dives and pulled out among other things and it just says give me more. The only scary thing is when you get alot of speed on this plane the tail can begin to twist which is a little disconcerting but I have not figured out how to strengthen the tail without adding alot of weight or creating stress points that might break instead of flexing like I believe the tail was designed to do.

[turbovector]

Twisting tail? Not sure what you're describing on that. One other place besides the wing spar that I used carbon fiber on is the tail. On the back side of it, I epoxied a piece of flat carbon rod before I added the fairing plastic. Maybe that solved a problem without me realizing it? I also cut some 3/16" strips of the leftover reinforcement paper/cardstock/board (whatever it's called) and ran them along the fuselage joint line from the back of the motor and up the tail. Kind of like the tails leading edge, just thinner strips. I'm having some pics of my plane scanned and e-mailed to me. If you'd like, PM your e-mail address and i'll send them to you. I'm on WebTV, that's why i'm unable to post them here.

[Lightnin]

I have only experienced it once or twice and I was carrying alot of speed when it happened. It sounds crazy but I know I observed what I did. It seems like the elevator bends over a little from side to side under extreme loads I never liked the idea of fixing the elevator to the tail with reinforcement board and screws.

[turbovector]

I neglected to mention I used a few dabs of epoxy at various points on the servo case where it slides through the tail, just to make sure nothing could break loose. To the best of my knowledge, the deflection you described hasn't happened to me (yet). I have also considered maybe gluing around the border of the reinforcement paper just to make sure the screws don't try something funny under a load. I've sent the pictures, 2 of my 'Vector and 2 of my Sky Scooter (I know, I know, this is the jet forum). Hopefully you'll take pity on a WebTV user and do me the honor of posting them here for the world to see. Thanks in advance if you do. Almost forgot, any new developments with the xt?

[Lightnin]

Ok Turbovector here are your pictures.

[Lightnin]

#2

[Lightnin]

#3

[Lightnin]

#4 I was glad to post these for you Turbovector you do nice work on your models .

[turbovector]

:) Thanks for posting the pics, and for the compliment. Hearing things like that makes it worth the effort (not to mention they really stand out at the field). Hopefully other 'Vector owners will post some of their handiwork too. I'd like to think we're not the only ones with the initiative to try a new EDF. Got any pics of your xt?

[Lightnin]

I took some today I will post soon. I flew the XT today and I think the dive speed is faster than the vector but the level speed is less than the vector.

[turbovector]

Interesting, I never thought about comparing dive speeds. Is the xt heavier? Maybe that plus twin props makes the difference. Ran into one of the regulars at the L.H.S. and he was asking about the speed of the 'Vector compared to a Combatwing with a brushless. I've seen two of them with different brands of brushless and i'm pretty sure we have them beat. Unless you've seen something I haven't? I found a radar gun kit for $60. Nice thing about it is you can mount the antenna up to 300' away from the readout. It could be set up in the field for everyone to do fly-by's with the display/power supply at the car. Then I could post some accurate numbers for quite a few different planes.

[turbovector]

???:confused: Still waiting for your flight report RPM:confused:???

[Lightnin]

Here are some pics of the XT

[Lightnin]

Bottom side

[Lightnin]

Yes the XT is a good deal heavier it smokes in a dive. It has more power than the Vector also, ie better climb and recovery, it just bores holes in the sky. However, in level flight I think the Vector has got it beat. The XT does not display the nasty habits that other wings do, the wing waggle is a thing of the past and the only time I was able to get this thing to act "funny" was on the third consecutive outside loop. It is hard to launch too, the XT requires a pretty good heave or you will have a handfull. I would not give up the XT or the Vector, to me they fly two different styles and I like them both. For pure fun I fly the XT, when I want a thrill with a more realistic/scale feel to it I fly the Vector. Another thing is that the XT will bounce pretty good, I dont think the Vector is very crash resistant. Oh, by the way that twin motor sound is tooo cool it gets alot of attention.

[turbovector]

Is the top the same color as the bottom, or are those 2 pics of the bottom? The xt I saw definetely had power to spare, I don't think there was anything he couldn't pull out of. Nice to know it excels in the toughness factor too. The twins do have a note all their own don't they? Only 2 of the regulars have seen the 'Vector so far, they weren't sure what they were hearing (never heard an EDF). One thing's for sure, landing a 'Vector in one piece is probably the biggest challenge of flying it. I watched the xt land in the back of his truck (now that's tough!). Sounds like you worked the bugs out of it. How much flight time per pack?