what IS it?

[opualuan]

awful quiet in here :)

I'm too young to really know what CL is (22)... is it basically rc planes with strings attached to the control surfaces controlled like those guys with multi-string kites? any advantage versus rc, or has cl just become a memory of the past? does ANYONE do it?

any reason why a CL plane couldn't be converted to RC?

for me, this is like helis... I don't understand it, and don't get the attraction to it ;)

[steve lewin]

Originally posted by opualuan
for me, this is like helis... I don't understand it, and don't get the attraction to it ;)

If you're really interested a quick websearch on "control line" would get you lots of information. If you're not interested feel free not to worry about it.

C/L is a relatively small (though actually growing) part of the hobby populated mainly by that possibly dying breed "modellers" i.e. people who prefer experimenting and designing and building things not just buying a lump of moulded plastic and throwing money at it ;). Not that there aren't some of those people in the R/C area too, but you get the big numbers of posts from "I bought one, now tell me how to make it go" crowd.

I feel much better now I've aired some of my prejudices too. I'm not sure I'd have bothered posting that in the "Foamies" forum in the attempt to stir up an argument but YMMV :)

Steve

[Dereck]

CL is something that will find you if you are intended to do it!

My soft spot goes back to getting a CL model to actually fly when I was 12 years old (KK Phantom Mite, DC Bantam, for Brits). Having singularly failed to get a flying model to imitate, let alone commit, aviation, that I could go out weekends and fly this little beggar was little short of amazing.

Over the years, I got to where I could actually do a few basic aerobatics, fly around inverted, once even with a twin.

Ever since, and even since taking up RC, there's been this niggle to try it again. I still have a couple of what were once our dream engines in a drawer - one is a Fox 35, a true legend in its own lifetime!

Like Steve says, you can go out on the web and check out control line, or check out the CL columns in Flying Models or Model Aviation, if you are US based. The best reports to get a flavour of CL are the ones from the big OT inclined meets. Someone in CL coined the phrase "The trailing edge of technology" - refers to how the majority of CL fliers are more than happy to build all balsa designs from years ago, covered in doped tissue and decorated in hand rubbed paint finishes.

The rip-off plastic products of Asia and Eastern Europe are unlikely to make serious inroads into the realms of dedicated CL fliers.

There is no 'advantage' to it (other than being a lot cheaper than RC and having a total lack of RF interference ;)) - some folk just enjoy doing it!

[Looooeeee!]

To the uninitiated its almost comical, First off you generally need two folks to do it, the engines with any pedigree need more oil in the fuel than modern R/C engines need, and you spend ten minutes getting your lines sorted out, safety thong checked, clevises found (or lost in the grass), then you get your balky castor encrusted fuel slurper to run almost but not quite in a breaking two stroke, (a little on the rich side). Your launcher has to wait for you to hurry out to the lines while the nasty little noise maker spews oil on them, (I used to own a Torp .15 green head, it's port aims up on a Ringmaster, that's fun!) If your real lucky the launch goes smoothly and the thing takes of and flies in a circle around you. If your not it comes in at you from the circles edge, tangles your line up or some other nonsense.

Still, it's the most magical thing you can do with balsa, silkspan, wire and an old worn out clunk of an engine that has one speed.
It's the feel of flight through the handle and it almost more fun than glider flying. I still have three planes and a fourth, a GS carrier Corsair thats waiting in the wings.

And I heartily concur with Dereck, I spent a lot of early teendom flying these things. Hey Dereck, how about a Sterling YAK 9 with a Fox .36 on it. That was my ultimate teen age plane.

Looee

[steve lewin]

I could be wrong but I have a feeling that Dereck and I were in the wrong country to have Sterling and Fox as our teen heros. In my case it was more likely to have been Mercury and PAW diesels. I always wanted an Oliver Tiger in a decent combat wing but we were too close to PAW and a rather fierce Gig Eifflander to feel safe flying Ollies (and I couldn't afford one anyway). I could probably afford one now but I'm way too cheap to pay 150 quid (220 dollars) for an old diesel engine. That'll get you a good brushless electric setup (getting almost back on topic).

With electrics it's rather easier to fly solo as our motors switch on and off better than IC. But it is true that C/L looks rather comical to those brought up on R/C. But it's doing the flying that's magical not watching it. Lately a few of the old hands at my local RC club have been reintroduced to C/L cus I keep taking one along (IC powered I'm afraid). They all come away with big grins and wander off muttering that they think they have one in the attic that could be restored.

Steve

[Dereck]

Hi Loooee
My 'dream ship' has to be a Nobler - even have / had a set of plans I bought years back from "Hobby Horn" with leadouts in the right wing! Steve's about right - Fox was something from another planet, took me around 30 years from hearing of them to owning one!

The one I remember from my early days was George Aldrich's "Peacemaker" as he designed for "Aeromodeller" magazine. Mine had a PAW 19D on it - a pretty serious piece of diesel for those days. About everyone aspired to that engine, most of the plebes having the slightly smaller PAW249. One of our lot, who had the forethought to select richer parents, had an Oliver Tiger 2.5cc in a Peacemaker - he couldn't do more than fly it around, but it was much faster than mine, and did it for ages too.

We only had one "adult" back then, flew a 54" Merco 35 powered "Spitfire" - the Aeromodeller CL stunt version, barely scale but instantly reconisable. Of course, this guy had a decent paycheck to fund the fuel for this monster!

I was lucky enough to see George fly at Old Warden around 1992 - a gaggle of CL drivers engineered him onto one end of the lines, with a neat silver Peacemaker on the other. He went around about four times, then just flew up and down in the hemisphere in front of the crowd. At one point, he was outside looping the fin through the grass, grinning from ear to ear.

One day, I have to find a CL group, pile all the technology toys in a corner, do a little shopping at John Brodak's and get out there with a Firestreak or Ringmaster, to work up to a 35 powered Nobler, just to say I did it.

OTOH, e-power has all the makings of the low-cost, easy to do 'park flier'. If "Mr GWS" turns his empire onto it, we could all end going around in circles! No RF interference to bother the regular RC guys, stinkin' cheap, true small space flying.

How's about a "stooge launch" device where you pin the model to a hold-down, wander out to the circle, pull the string on the stooge and it energises the motor as it turns the model loose? I've heard of solo CL fliers stooge launching happily, so it should work with an electric. Heck, if it's only on 20' lines, turn it on and leg it to the handle!

[Looooeeee!]

Hi Dereck,


A local friend has a PAW .19 RC in a BeeGee T'Moth, I always stop and help when he fires it up as I feel it's like learning a new skill. The balance between compression and fuel mixture borders on alchemy on these things and it's one type of engine I'd like to own someday. Heck I even kinda like the smell of them..:rolleyes:

One of your R/C panes that I like the lines of is "Annie", I feel it would make an interesting .15 powered C/Liner conversion if scaled down a wee bit. I even have a Taipan .15 that would make it scream. It would be cool on 52' lines.

Looee

[Dereck]

Hi Looee
Bet you mean "Amie" - the tailless low winger with the curved TE?

Never thought of a ukie conversion, but your idea sounds real good. "Amie" has a little dihedral, you might want to lose that. The elevons are big enough that they'd do fine as elevators , you'd really only need to figure out the bellcrank position in relation to the CG, which is at 16%, BTW.

Someone in England has been flying an electric conversion of Amie - eight cells and a direct drive ferrite, I understand. Turned up at a meeting and had folk wondering until it took off and flew fine. I've often considered a lightened version for electric, but with ten cells and a geared something or other. I'd mount the motor with the prop higher up - I always built my sports glow ships with upright engines as they are much less fuss that way up. By going to an "inverted engine" cowl, you'd get more ground clearance under the bigger prop.

Diesels are closer to a religion than a power source :) We Brits are oft held to understand these things - I have some vintage and oddball diesels but would rather not actually fly them! An American buddy of mine runs diesels all the time, one of about two diesel-holics in the DC area, and he still calls me up to ask questions about them though I haven't run a diesel in six years.

FWIW - I had a PAW19D RC in my 54" 9/14ths Smog Hog large scale model and it was great! 10" Graupner prop - heavy! - and a tad overcomped, it would throttle as well as any glow. Landing with most of the model covered in exhaust slop and the smell eventually over-rode those fine qualities...

[Bill Glover]

I fly two r/c models with PAW diesels, using the fitted muffler plus an extension pipe that exits outside the prop arc they run very clean. Folks are amazed how easily they start and how well they throttle. They are quieter than some electric models too!

I came into r/c via free flight rather than via 'brick swinging' (as c/l was known to some!). Both disciplines had advantages, free flighters usually understood aerodynamics & trimming pretty well, and control liners usually had good knowledge of engines (and understood centrifugal force :D ).

[Duane]

The old C/L days, I started at 8 yrs old (father/son project) Ringmaster Beginner. Solid balsa wing .049 Cox. Dads first flight was straight up, over and straight into the ground! I can't remember how mine was ;) , but I did learn to fly, Dad didn't. Then, every plastic Cox plane made, I had to have, and finally went to a Shoestring Stunter with a K&B Stallion 35 on it, now my older brother owns it. Thanks to reading this e-powererd C/L column, the urges are coming back! I will have to go into the garage and see what's left! Sure wish electric was as easy. Maybe I can find some articles on it here? I have s400 stuff, what can I do with it?

[ChrisP]

When I designed the Claptrap, electric powered models were just a dream. It makes me so pleased to think that Nexus still lists this as a current plan ! I have the original model in my cellar even though it hasn't flown for at least 15 years.

Chris Pinn

http://www.nexusonline.com/pages/nexusdirect.cgi

(They've got the wingspan wrong, God bless them. It's more like 40'').

[FlyinBrian]

My first succesful models were CL, mainly flying wings hacked out of 1/4" balsa with hardwood engine mounts glued on top. Engines were usually AM15 and 25 diesels running on home brewed fuel. My CL flying culminated in a Keil Kraft Firebird stunter with an Ollie Tiger in it, this met its demise when the bellcrank mounting plate ripped out. I next used the Ollie in a 2 channel Veron Robot which was my first "Multi channel" R/C model. It actually started life a single channel then I fitted the 2ch and eventually purchased the 3rd servo and fitted a glo motor with throttle control. I sold the ollie to fund the purchase of the glow motor!

Brian

[Kiwi]

Brian, you are a silly boy doing THAT! I had a Ollie powered Peacemaker, used to do battle with my mate and his Rivers Silver Streak powered Duellist. That's more years ago than I care to remember. Was recently given plans for Nobler and Aries, and recently built an APS Rascal with a PAW 149. Now I need to do a stooge for it and mow a circle in the sheep paddock.

[slipstick]

I wonder if 3 years and 5 months is the longest time we've had on RCGroups between message and response ;). Still I think Brian is still around.

Have fun with the Rascal and the PAW. I'm a big PAW fan (still....after 40+ years).

Steve

[rich k]

Opualan,

For those of us who are now membrs of the "Over The Hill Gang" it was our introduction to modeling. We learned the basic construction skills and what makes a model fly. It was getting together with buddies and enjoying the first week of summer vacation and smelling the aroma of Fox Missile Mist mixed with freshly cut grass. We also learned a few practical skills such as problem solving and how to plan out a project along with starting and finishing a job. It is what instilled a love for modeling which has been with me for over 45 years.
I would have to say that my favorite model would have to be the Goldberg Cosmic Wind. I cut lawns all summer one year to earn enough money to by a Fox.35 and the kit. I flew that puppy for many years and it still brings a smile to my face when I think of it. I have been flying R/c for many years now but C/L still holds a very special place in heart.
Good Flying,
Rich Kent

[TLyttle]

Hey, Over the Hill Gang??? Oh, yeah you're right...

I'm with Slipstick; I, too, am a PAW fan, got my first one in the late 60s, and still have nearly a dozen. My alltime favourite model was a profile ME110 (Aeromodeller plan) with 2 PAW19s for power; man that model was fun!!! I flew it for years, then sold it after a domestic catastrophe; no idea if the guy ever flew it again. Another was an American plan for a profile F3B with a ETA2.5 on it, and there wasn't much that model wouldn't do; it was capable of more than I was.

I have a coupel of c/l models in the shop, waiting for the opporunity to fly again: a Mini Zilch (1949 kit) and a Halifax with 4 PAW80s for power. One of these days!

[Capt Crash]

Control Line is like a lot of things in life: if you don't know, it can't be explained. If you know, it needn't be explained.

I remember that for my friends and I, it was the introduction to "real" flying. We started out with stick and tissue free flight, but then people would ask if we were going to fly something with a "real" motor. That led to the purchase or birthday gift of a kit and a Cox .049 motor, or one of those Cox, Testors, or similar plastic planes (Corsair, Sopwith Camel, Mustang, etc. etc.) and an afternoon in the driveway trying to get it to run. I remember my dad in his business attire trying to get my P-40 to fire up.

Eventually we all figured it out, and spent lots of our allowance and summer job money on glow heads, fuel, and more kits. Recently, an old buddy of mine got back into both RC and CL, and we spent some time tuning and flying a Brodak kit he had assembled. He hadn't flown a CL ship in decades, but when his new machine rolled out and lifted off the pavement, it was magic.

[gwinhh]

I'm with Rich K. A good Fox 35, K&B 100, and good friends. Or a stooge. I laid off C/L 7 yrears once -- then when I got my Sterling Mustang profile back, loaded the Veco tank, flipped the Top Flite 10 x 6 and heard that good unmuffled bark, I was suddenly 16 again. And when I dig out my Fox .35 on a Super Ringmaster and go off to the local ball field, I lose 50 years --- but my arm gets tired quicker.

WAAAAHHHH ---- I wanna go back.

howell

[Gonnacrash]

Opualuan,
Here is a link.... go to the last one... has a NICE viedo.
Shows C/L flying.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3086846/tm.htm

Don-Basehor, Ks