District 8 bick eeerrrrrr discussion...

[Hossfly]

Originally posted by kdhanson
Coder,

I absolutely agree with you. I think solutions to this issue have to come from the mfr's by way of customer feedback. The are not likely to sink much into R & D unless there is a big demand from the modeling public. If customers let them know what they would like to see in terms of new features then it's more likely they will start looking into new innovations like that.
I received a survey form from Futaba not too long ago regarding radio systems. I only wish I had thought of mentioning your idea in the "what would you like in a radio system" section. :(

Ken

BTW, where do you fly in the Nashua area?

Good idea, however don't hold your breath. As long as there are new fads for the manufacturers to make some seed money on, the hobby industry isn't likely to move off center for something that takes real work like getting new allotments from FCC and doing R&D.
In the '80s RC Cars saved the RC industry and gave them funds to make better airplane radios along with the car stuff. Every kid was a customer and Mom and pop would shell out the money for street toys. They didn't have to drive an hour/s to a facility for the regular kid with a car.
You should have heard the radio mfgrs. P&Ming back when the new frequencies were just on the horizon. They could *NEVER* make narrow band equipment and could never stock *50* channels --"NO WAY"!! I was there. I assisted in that fight FOR those freqs.

Right now the low cost small-airplane stuff is another cash cow for the industry. Why change? There will be something better later when this phase begins to deteriorate. When you crash enough, another kid will crash and buy more for several years, and who worries about what will happen after that?
Changing the world market is not something those people are exactly fond of.

Last Sat. at the AMA Safety Discussion, SWAC, I brought up the situation if AMA could start making information available or contact the Hobby Association concerning the very fragile front-Ins of many of the ARFs now being distributed. Engines flying off the front with the firewalls, coming off in the air, and generally poor engineering concerning stress and load factors.
So few modelers ever build anything anymore that they have no clue about structural requirements for these big gas burners.
Well, that suggestion was like the proverbial addition to the punchbowl. Yet a seed has been planted.

AMA doesn't want to chance any problems with the industry, after all they have a magazine to sell ads for, and you to pay the bills. Besides only 12-14% of you ever vote so you must be real happy.
It takes a lot of hard work and some sore-spots made to effect any change.

The average AMA member takes no interest in AMA affairs and will not elect people to office that will do more than mumble, "Me too, like him, what he wants/says."
Well, young people, in spite of what a few tulip-dancers sing so merrily about, if you want something and you want a representative to go forth, to obtain that something, then you need to elect a fighter, not a wusp with little or no experience in the fray or even all modeling activities.
In the real world the milk is NOT always in the 'Fridge.

Horrace D. Cain
AMA 539 UMA 7160
Candidate for AMA District VIII VP
Veteran competitor in CL, FF and RC
Previous AMA VP, AMA Dist. VI

[J_R]

I am not sure why Mr. Cain feels he must inject politics into every topic. One would think he was running against me, the way he follows me like a puppy.

I am a long time AMA member. I am a contest director and a leader member. I have absolutely no interest in any political position within the AMA. I do write, call or talk to members of the AMA leadership when I have a question, or they are in town for the AMA Convention. I have no "special relationship" with the AMA or it's leadership. I do what any of you can do if you so choose.

Often, I can answer questions because I have asked about them before. I know, pretty much, what is on the AMA web site, and who to write to if the information is not there. I prefer to deal in facts, but, will offer my opinion, and label it as such, from time to time. I would prefer to take a role in this forum of being helpful.

Mr. Cain, in another thread has made some rather glowing pronouncemets about what he believes your rights are as AMA members. He would lead you to believe that those are your rights.

The rights of an AMA member are set forth in the AMA by-laws, standing rules and in the laws that control the AMA. You will find that an AMA member has the right to expect the AMA to turn the moon to green cheese. Or that, just as I have the right to petition Mr. Cain to go away, an AMA member has the right to petition the AMA. The AMA need not reply in the affirmative, just as I am sure Mr. Cain will not respond to my petition in the affirmitive.

The simple fact is that an AMA member has one right, and that is to vote.

If you are tired of Mr. Cain injecting politics into each thread, you certainly have the right to express your unhappiness. It is unlikely that he will respond by showing restraint.

Edited for content by moderator.


JR
AMA 732
CD/LM

[J_R]

In addition, Mr. Cain has made a report to this forum that he has cross posted in several forums entitled: For your information
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156776

Mr. Cain "lead you to believe" that it was a report based on the facts that he received from Carl Maroney. In another forum, it was exposed that some of it is the opinion of Mr. Cain, and Mr. Cain was forced to adimit to the fact that it is his opinion.

I am sure Mr. Cain will be more than happy to explain his actions.

JR

[H Hand]

Another great discussion being ruined by the politicos. Moderatorss, please move this off topic information!! We don't want to read it in intelligent discussion!!

Please!!!

[easytiger]

Originally posted by Hossfly
Good idea, however don't hold your breath. As long as there are new fads for the manufacturers to make some seed money on, the hobby industry isn't likely to move off center for something that takes real work like getting new allotments from FCC and doing R&D.
In the '80s RC Cars saved the RC industry and gave them funds to make better airplane radios along with the car stuff. Every kid was a customer and Mom and pop would shell out the money for street toys. They didn't have to drive an hour/s to a facility for the regular kid with a car.
You should have heard the radio mfgrs. P&Ming back when the new frequencies were just on the horizon. They could *NEVER* make narrow band equipment and could never stock *50* channels --"NO WAY"!! I was there. I assisted in that fight FOR those freqs.

Right now the low cost small-airplane stuff is another cash cow for the industry. Why change? There will be something better later when this phase begins to deteriorate. When you crash enough, another kid will crash and buy more for several years, and who worries about what will happen after that?
Changing the world market is not something those people are exactly fond of.

Last Sat. at the AMA Safety Discussion, SWAC, I brought up the situation if AMA could start making information available or contact the Hobby Association concerning the very fragile front-Ins of many of the ARFs now being distributed. Engines flying off the front with the firewalls, coming off in the air, and generally poor engineering concerning stress and load factors.
So few modelers ever build anything anymore that they have no clue about structural requirements for these big gas burners.
Well, that suggestion was like the proverbial addition to the punchbowl. Yet a seed has been planted.

AMA doesn't want to chance any problems with the industry, after all they have a magazine to sell ads for, and you to pay the bills. Besides only 12-14% of you ever vote so you must be real happy.
It takes a lot of hard work and some sore-spots made to effect any change.

The average AMA member takes no interest in AMA affairs and will not elect people to office that will do more than mumble, "Me too, like him, what he wants/says."
Well, young people, in spite of what a few tulip-dancers sing so merrily about, if you want something and you want a representative to go forth, to obtain that something, then you need to elect a fighter, not a wusp with little or no experience in the fray or even all modeling activities.
In the real world the milk is NOT always in the 'Fridge.

Horrace D. Cain
AMA 539 UMA 7160
Candidate for AMA District VIII VP
Veteran competitor in CL, FF and RC
Previous AMA VP, AMA Dist. VI

For God's sake, does everything have to be about YOU, and your bitterness towards the AMA?
I thought we were talking about spread spectrum? What is WRONG with you?

[J_R]

Originally posted by H Hand
Another great discussion being ruined by the politicos. Moderatorss, please move this off topic information!! We don't want to read it in intelligent discussion!!

Please!!!

I have no objection, as long as all the political posts are removed from the thread. No edits, just remove them

JR

[Hossfly]

Originally posted by J_R
In addition, Mr. Cain has made a report to this forum that he has cross posted in several forums entitled: For your information
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156776

Mr. Cain "lead you to believe" that it was a report based on the facts that he received from Carl Maroney. In another forum, it was exposed that some of it is the opinion of Mr. Cain, and Mr. Cain was forced to adimit to the fact that it is his opinion.

I am sure Mr. Cain will be more than happy to explain his actions.

JR




JR says I was FORCED into changing my post because I used opinions rather than facts.

JR as usual will twist all he can because he knows that here he cannot be called in plain language the story-teller that he actually is: decide for yourself.

I posted in my "Just for Your Information" posting two personal items, and one did separate two factual points. Bad writing on my part.

Another poster said: >>>"Your report on what you learned from Maroney's presentation at SWAC was very informative, but seems to include your own opinions. It isn't crystal clear when there is transition from citing Moroney to your thoughts. Was it Carl that said A is all on his own in this situation (i.e., insurance coverage voided)? "<<<

The other poster was unclear of a point so I reviewed my post and stated:
>>
Thank You. Yes there are opinions and after review, you are correct; I made a "Personal Point..." and followed that with, "One BIG Point..!" Very poor composition on my part.

Yes Carl did SAY that BIG point. I did state in #25 above, To the best of my understanding -- and in the question/answer session following the briefing -- I asked several questions about this briefing item, ..."

Carl briefed the point and I did question it with several questions to be certain I understood correctly. It was a kind of unpleasant bit of news." <<<<

To which he, the other poster, replied: >>>>"Hoss- Thanks for clarifying that, and also for a cue you gave me on another occasion..."

Now if that discussion in rational terms constitutes anyone being FORCED, well I must say I don't know much about forced.
I goofed a communication, he asked for clarification, I did the best I could to provide the correct information and he said Thank You.

Now is that really all so bad as JR makes it to be?


JR is safety-wired in the PO position because he blew it big time in another of his *Big Brother* discussions. A long one but here is a bit:

>>>HC: >>>"Model Aviation" is what is called an unrelated business since all of a commercial magazine is more than the minimum news-letter requirements for an IRS 501 (c) (3) exempt organization. <<<<

JR comes back with: >>>Model Aviation ..... is owned exclusively by the Academy of Model Aeronautics.....

That is hardly what could be called an "unrelated business"
<<<<<

Right there JR revealed absolutely total lack of any financial understanding of the 501(c)(3) organization and its associated business units.
That kind of blew his rants about my lack of accounting, and his spouting all about the "audit report" right with his other wind-blowing.
Further investigations into the audit report revealed that JR fails to comprehend such when he does repeat the figures. Actually I rather felt sorry for his display and the noticable decrease in his cain-bashing wolf-pack as they became far lesser in numbers.

I APOLIGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING YOUR DISCUSSION.

Please continue as JR probably has more *SPREAD - SPECTRUM" than anyone should be allowed to. :rolleyes:

Yep, JR, that makes me happy, Thank you!!


Horrace Cain

[easytiger]

I guess the answer is NO, we canNOT have a discussion about an important issue without someone turning it into yet another Unibomber Manifesto. PLEASE STOP. Unless you want to talk about spread spectrum, don't say anything more.

Anyway...
Did anybody call or email Steve Kaluf, the AMA technical director?

Looks like none of us really know much about either the technology or what AMA is doing with it, why not go to the source and find out, rather than speculate?

[J_R]

Originally posted by Hossfly
JR says I was FORCED into changing my post because I used opinions rather than facts.

JR as usual will twist all he can because he knows that here he cannot be called in plain language the story-teller that he actually is: decide for yourself.

I posted in my "Just for Your Information" posting two personal items, and one did separate two factual points. Bad writing on my part.

Another poster said: >>>"Your report on what you learned from Maroney's presentation at SWAC was very informative, but seems to include your own opinions. It isn't crystal clear when there is transition from citing Moroney to your thoughts. Was it Carl that said A is all on his own in this situation (i.e., insurance coverage voided)? "<<<

The other poster was unclear of a point so I reviewed my post and stated:
>>
Thank You. Yes there are opinions and after review, you are correct; I made a "Personal Point..." and followed that with, "One BIG Point..!" Very poor composition on my part.

Yes Carl did SAY that BIG point. I did state in #25 above, To the best of my understanding -- and in the question/answer session following the briefing -- I asked several questions about this briefing item, ..."

Carl briefed the point and I did question it with several questions to be certain I understood correctly. It was a kind of unpleasant bit of news." <<<<

To which he, the other poster, replied: >>>>"Hoss- Thanks for clarifying that, and also for a cue you gave me on another occasion..."

Now if that discussion in rational terms constitutes anyone being FORCED, well I must say I don't know much about forced.
I goofed a communication, he asked for clarification, I did the best I could to provide the correct information and he said Thank You.

Now is that really all so bad as JR makes it to be?


JR is safety-wired in the PO position because he blew it big time in another of his *Big Brother* discussions. A long one but here is a bit:

>>>HC: >>>"Model Aviation" is what is called an unrelated business since all of a commercial magazine is more than the minimum news-letter requirements for an IRS 501 (c) (3) exempt organization. <<<<

JR comes back with: >>>Model Aviation ..... is owned exclusively by the Academy of Model Aeronautics.....

That is hardly what could be called an "unrelated business"
<<<<<

Right there JR revealed absolutely total lack of any financial understanding of the 501(c)(3) organization and its associated business units.
That kind of blew his rants about my lack of accounting, and his spouting all about the "audit report" right with his other wind-blowing.
Further investigations into the audit report revealed that JR fails to comprehend such when he does repeat the figures. Actually I rather felt sorry for his display and the noticable decrease in his cain-bashing wolf-pack as they became far lesser in numbers.

I APOLIGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING YOUR DISCUSSION.

Please continue as JR probably has more *SPREAD - SPECTRUM" than anyone should be allowed to. :rolleyes:

Yep, JR, that makes me happy, Thank you!!


Horrace Cain

Geeze Horrace, the least you can do is READ my post before you go over the deep edge.

Quote My Post:

"Mr. Cain "lead you to believe" that it was a report based on the facts that he received from Carl Maroney. In another forum, it was exposed that some of it is the opinion of Mr. Cain, and Mr. Cain was forced to adimit to the fact that it is his opinion."


Horrace, no where in there did I say or imply you changed your post to reflect the fact you had been caught. Perhaps you should have.

Horrace, while your at it, go take two or three years of accounting. I did. Can't you pleasssssseeee leave a thread alone or at least try to contribute something worthwhile to it?

JR

[easytiger]

JR, love ya, but I don't think you are helping...

[J_R]

Horrace, when you made this statement in the thread about accounting, you showed, one and for all, that you have no concept of accounting.

You stated: Regardless of historical audit reports, etc., etc., the fact stands that 60% of the recent dues increase was allocated to the CURRENT FISCAL YEAR's AMA magazine, "Model Aviation".

Now Horrace, there may be some that do not understand accounting, besides you, that do not realize that the financial report is "the" definitive document produced and audited concerning an entity. In that satement, you made said the same thing as: "forget the facts, listen to my logic"

If you feel you "won" with that arugement, or anything based on it, God bless you.

JR

[J_R]

easytiger

I am not going to let anyone put up misquotes, misinterrpretations, or misinformation, without saying something.

There are people out there that will vote.

Sorry

[J_R]

LAST year, this was the reason that Horrace stated for the dues increase:
“Deficit financing with a far too optimistic return-on-investment that never happened, plus a near 1/2 million increase in Operating Expenses (12%) 2001 over 2000, has resulted in a 20% increase in AMA dues for 2003, plus extreme
increases in other services. (They made mistakes and now YOU have to pay the bills.)
Now the incumbent Ex. VP is promoting dividing AMA into 3 corporations or establishing captive corporations even to suggesting off-shore operations. (Read EC minutes, 7-15-02)




It would seem that my friend may feel you can have two seperate reasons for the same increase, neither of which reflects the facts accpeted in accounting.

JR

[Don Sims]

Please don't make personal attacks or they will be edited out.
Don