Advice for torque rolls?

[Martin Hunter]

Hi gang,

I've been working really hard at developing my 3D flying (www.westhillsweb.net/video/dreamer/tantrumblitz.wmv) over the last 10 months, but one maneuver that still partially eludes me is the torque roll. I can typically get one complete torque roll out of any plane I'm hovering but beyond that I start to fall off to one side and my mind doesn't work quick enough to bring it back into position before the plane falls off entirely. I guess my biggest problem is trying to think "backwards" with the rudder. If I start into a hover belly-in, I can mostly hold it, but it takes some heavy concentration on my part to mentally reverse the rudder. It's the same for inverted flying, so I'm thinking it's something I need to change my way of thinking about somehow.

Basically, I'm looking for tips for torque rolls as well as mentally reversing the rudder without having to "think" so much as "do".

Thanks!

Martin

[Andy W]

3D with Mike McConville
Part 7: The Torque Roll:
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/articles/1022.asp?pg=7

..a

[Steve H.]

And using the right plane helps, a small parkflyer is alot harder to do it with than a larger more stable plane.

[fwilly]

Not much of a trick to it. You just have to keep doing one rotation torque rolls until you can do two and then three and so on. I spent the longest time at 1/2 a torque roll. I'm also working on using rudder inverted. I want to do inverted harriers(and control the direction).

PS great video. I recently dunked my Tribute after a radio hit at DEAF, while decending in a hover to touch the water.

[pmpjohn]

Thanks for the link Andy.

John

[coma24]

Martin,

Your video was pretty darn inspiring. Nice work on the hovering, and a particularly nice job on the recovery over water! Those were some sharp reflexes. You'd be pretty good at dyanmic soaring ;) Ooops, wrong forum!

Keith

[Jim McPherson]

Martin: I'm not very good at hovering when the airplane turns around but one thing I've found that helps me is to wiggle the nose when it's turned around. By constantly correcting back and forth it's easier to keep orientation.

-Jim

[Martin Hunter]

Thanks for the tips, guys :)

Martin

[SkyPyro]

If you have Realflight, then just keep practicing on it. If not, then my biggest tip is to try to just "let it groove." Trim the rudder out for a hover, then stop holding right aileron and tilting it forward, and let it rotate itself. Learning belly in rudder is one of the hardest parts, but it eventually gets easier. Something I'll do sometimes is handlaunch and take a walk around the neighborhood, and stop and stand to the side of it to get the hang of it in that orientation, then go a little more, then try another torque roll. Good excercise for the mind, legs and thumbs! Especially when you have to dive out of the way :p

Dan

[Martin Hunter]

Dan, that's great advice and that's pretty much what I did when we went out flying today. I'm to the point that I can get back into a steady hover after one torque roll about 80% of the time, about 50% after two, and about 25% after three. I find most of the time in the third I end up correcting the wrong way but I will be working on that. I'll dedicate some battery packs to it as I did with hovering to begin with.

Martin

[GWRIGHT]

increase your rudder movement as far as you can, then add a healthy amount of exponential to the rudder. Yes, you need a lot of rudder authority to hover, but you don't need it "twitchy" or it's sort of self-defeating,..i.e. you get into trouble (tilted too far) much more than if the rudder was softer around neutral. From the video, it appears theres quite a bit of wind where you're flying (the plane is slanted forwards quite a bit in hover). you'd be amazed how much more stable a plane gets in hover when it is truly vertical comapred to only a 3 to 5 degree "tilt" in some direction. Get it truly vertical and start working on the bottom orientation. It will drift with the wind, but will be far more stable than when it's tilted into the wind.

[3dddflyer]

Originally posted by Martin Hunter
Hi gang,

I've been working really hard at developing my 3D flying (www.westhillsweb.net/video/dreamer/tantrumblitz.wmv) over the last 10 months, but one maneuver that still partially eludes me is the torque roll. I can typically get one complete torque roll out of any plane I'm hovering but beyond that I start to fall off to one side and my mind doesn't work quick enough to bring it back into position before the plane falls off entirely. I guess my biggest problem is trying to think "backwards" with the rudder. If I start into a hover belly-in, I can mostly hold it, but it takes some heavy concentration on my part to mentally reverse the rudder. It's the same for inverted flying, so I'm thinking it's something I need to change my way of thinking about somehow.

Basically, I'm looking for tips for torque rolls as well as mentally reversing the rudder without having to "think" so much as "do".

Thanks!
Martin

the things that helped me out the most with torque rolling was
was what tim attaway tought me when the canopy is twards you fly the nose of the aircraft meanig if it falls off to the right then push the nose left ..when the canopy is away from you fly the tail
of the plane .also i have found the slower you go into hover the eazer it is to controll meaning that if you do a wall to hover it is more dificult than coming in slow.i hope this helps ...Tim
p.s. dont mind my spelling kuz it aint so good.
:D

[Outsideloop]

One of the best things I have figured out to help the old noggen respond quicker in a torque roll, is when the plane is canopy toward you fly it normal but when the canopy is away push the rudder stick toward the wing that is dropping. The first thing your brain can see is wing tip movement due to the distance from the fulcrum. The tip of the wing has the most movement. This trick works great in improving you response time.

[Twostroker]

Good input guys. I learned to remember it by giving the low wing the rudder, when it's belly is facing you.

[Ben74]

the way i think about it is when the belly is facing me, i push the rudder in the SAME direction that i want the tail to move in. usually, the tail moves in the opposite direction of rudder input. i think of the tail the same way when i'm hovering my heli inverted :).

[henke]

as Dan mentioned, a simmulator is good help. then just get the real plane down close to you, it´s much easier then high up in the sky. ;) I know...easier said then done.

/Henke

[Andycap]

The easiest model to torque roll ever????
www.awdesigns.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
check out the 5mb video

[Steve H.]

Originally posted by Andycap
The easiest model to torque roll ever????
www.awdesigns.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
check out the 5mb video
Its not true torque rolling if you use ailerons to do it, thats cheating. :)

[SkyPyro]

*Cough* SUKALYN *Cough * :)

That doesn't really count to me. What takes the most skill is a sloww torque roll, or a point torque roll. They also look better :D

Dan

[DDD]

Originally posted by SkyPyro
*Cough* SUKALYN *Cough * :)

That doesn't really count to me. What takes the most skill is a sloww torque roll, or a point torque roll. They also look better :D

Dan


THATS NOT A TORQUE ROLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it's an a aileron roll .:D

[j_z_123]

Hey Martin!

I've got the secret to torque rolls! First I've been learning to hover with the side of the plane toward me. Then, I've been practicing harriers toward me. With that I now can torque roll, most of the time. I still need tons more practice but, Now I undterstand what to do while I want do it. lol

Jon

[Stevens AeroModel]

Martin, you just need a bigger plane.... something... say.... hmm.. 1:1 scale?

http://www.jkairys.com/common/movies/jurgis_2002_2nd_ex.mpg

:)

[pmpjohn]

Thanks Bill :eek:

John

[heymanwatchis]

I'm no expert..but torque rolling I can do a little. The number one "trick" , after you have power, controll authority, etc...is to move the CG as far back as you can, while still being able to fly it. Assuming you are attempting this with a suitable plane, it should slide right into a harrier from level flight as you decrease throttle and apply elevator. Just move the CG back..fly....further back....fly.............and so on until it just gets too squirrelly. Note that this doesn't apply to most scale aerobats like CAP's, Extra's, etc. They have wings designed to stall easily to allow the plane to tumble, snap, and otherwise "break the wing loose" without loosing too much forward airspeed, thus making them more susceptable to snapping out with elevator is applied.
As you move the CG back, you'll see the plane almost wants to move into a hovering position. The tail wants to drop. Your rudder and elevator get more effective. REMEMBER...small increments.
Just ask Jim...he knows what I'm saying..
Good luck..