The visible face of AMA

[Karl B²]

When I first heard of this forum, I thought it would be a place to learn more about what AMA has and is doing in the modeling world. Surely the threads on this new thread do not represent the spirit of the AMA in general?

Unfortunately, my own experiences with AMA at the local club level have been all too similar to what has been posted here. The poll (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148567) in the Ezone open forum indicates that 72% of readers are members. The trash spewed here so far isn't doing much to increase that number.

Leader(?) bickering and comments such as why not join some Aryan Nation and Anit-Government group in the outback mountains of Idaho?, which was suggested of those who are not members, won't increase that number.

I invite those with positive things to say about the AMA to post it here, for the sake of the hobby. For if this forum and some of the comments in the poll thread are the norm, as a modeler, I say get off our side.

Karl

[J_R]

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[easytiger]

Originally posted by Kinnic^2
When I first heard of this forum, I thought it would be a place to learn more about what AMA has and is doing in the modeling world. Surely the threads on this new thread do not represent the spirit of the AMA in general? "



They definitely do NOT. Model Aviation much better represents the REAL AMA.
This has been an on-going thing on the net for some years. It actually seems to have tapered down a lot. There has been an incredible amount of misinformation spread on the net about the AMA, some wild stuff, for sure. And some people just read it without any critical thinking and join in on the mud slinging. And SOME people have their own political motivation...they want to get elected.

But face to face with the EC, Dave Brown, and other AMA officials and employees, the story is something quite different. And most of them just roll their eyes at the stuff that's written on the net.

"Unfortunately, my own experiences with AMA at the local club level have been all too similar to what has been posted here. "



Don't confuse your local club with the AMA. Club attitudes and such vary wildly. There are guys in my club,for instance, who just cannot stomach helicopters at all, period. Me, I don't mind them. But if they become officers of the club, the first thing they always try to do is ban helis altogether. Why? Who knows. Who cares. I just don't vote for them. Other clubs, it's a non-issue.
My own take nowadays is to not get involved too much with club politics, unless the field is not flyable or there is a safety issue. The rest of the petty stuff, well...if you want to be president of the Hackensack Valley Swamp Rats and get all the incredible priveleges that come with that austere office, go nuts!
Another club I read about FORCES everybody to take a turn as president! That's very clever, I think.

" The poll (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148567) in the Ezone open forum indicates that 72% of readers are members. "


I was actually surprised it was that high. I figure that there were a lot of park flyers who did not really need to join. I'm impressed. If someone wants to join, great. If not, that's fine. They don't need to have their arms twisted...


"The trash spewed here so far isn't doing much to increase that number."

Probably not.

"Leader(?) bickering and comments such as why not join some Aryan Nation and Anit-Government group in the outback mountains of Idaho?, which was suggested of those who are not members, won't increase that number."

I don't know who said that, but that's out of line, and it certainly does not reflect MY attitude as an AMA member, nor is it any "party line" coming from Muncie.

"I invite those with positive things to say about the AMA to post it here, for the sake of the hobby. "

Well, that's me. I'm happy with the AMA and the job they have been doing, the National Flying Site in Muncie, the educational programs, their management of the Turbine Wavier System, their handling of the insurance issues, and much more. There are things that can be improved, sure, but they are working hard and succeeding. There are about 187,000 members now, as opposed to 70,000 in 1980, and 25,000 in 1965, and the organization is solvent, and we are flying all sorts of new planes, on fifty new frequencies that are not going anywhere, and models are better, cheaper, and easier than they have ever been before so AMA must be doing SOMETHING right.


"For if this forum and some of the comments in the poll thread are the norm, as a modeler, I sayget off our sid.

Karl "

Unfortunately, it really does seem to be the norm for the internet. But the business of the AMA does not take place on the internet, thank god. There is a well-honed democratic system, which is sometimes slow to react, but almost always reflects the wishes of a majority of the membership. Just because some knuckleheads are spouting off on the internet does not mean that they reflect what the majority of the membership is feeling, not by a long shot. It's just a few loud people, some of which have other axes to grind.
Also, there are elections taking place, so certain people are politicking pretty heavily...
All the best,
ET

[ICTHRMLS]

I too was hoping this area would be more enlightening about the AMA. I am not an avid member... just a member. I vote, I CD contests, I am as active as possible in our local club (120 miles away) and yes, I am in District XIII. I have not been a big fan of any of the District XIII Saints but never had a lot of interaction with them either. I'm sure they are decent but they never had my discipline (sailplanes) at the forefront of their interests.

I question the reasons for the bickering that has been ongoing - I have not nor will research other forums for that background information. Just what IS it about being Disctrict VP that would cause most the the threads in this forum to be edited for personal attacks??? Are there monies to be made?? What power is there to weild once you get elected? Some honest questions have been raised in other threads and there is either no answer or slamming for a spelling mistake..... sheees, is that the best ya got??

Easytiger & J_R - I see y'all are trying to sort things out for the rest of us - keep it civil, relavent and on topic and you have an ear here.

Candidates - Use this forum to educate us on how bad (or good) AMA is and how you plan to fix the bad and improve the good... name calling is getting old since I never get to read any clever insults before our moderators step in.:D :D :D

P.S. to Mods - Good job as usual

[easytiger]

Great post! And great name, at least to a guy who cut his teeth with a wanderer and a histart down at the schoolyard...
If you were looking for all the good insults before they got deleted, you came to the wrong forum. Have to say that there never really have been any amongst these particular crowd. Just nasty stuff, not really witty stuff. Maybe it IS the best they've got.

I don't think DVIII has been singled out, I think it's just a temporary thing. Things got nasty with Jim McNeill's district a while back, too. Very similar.

And with the presidential election, things got bad.

And with the EVP one last year(Horrace again) it was bad, to the point where the incumbent had to file a suit.

[J_R]

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[J_R]

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[easytiger]

Yep. It did not end up in court or anything, wise on your part to add more detail to that sordid episode.

While I also question the motives of BOTH of these candidates for nominating all these other people, to me, it does not make any difference to the actual election RESULT.
It's still the guy with the most votes who wins. Someone who votes for a third so called "spoiler" candidate pointedly did NOT vote for either of the other two, so the whole "spoiler" thing does not work for me.
I do not know why Jim Branaum is not on the ballot, but he can still be written in. Maybe he started too late on this campaign. Were I him(and I am not) I would throw in the towel and run again with more groundwork in a few years.

[ICTHRMLS]

J_R - I am a little embarrassed to say I do't fully understand the political/voting process currently employed by AMA. Your post helped greatly and I thank you for taking the time to TRY and explain it... I appreciate it. Seems to me it presents a conflict of interest to provide a nomination to the very ballot one is running on. Yet, rules are rules and I guess this is / has been allowed to continue.

What is the criteria for "deemed better qualified"? - How many members comprise the NC and how many NC members are from any one particular district?

Sign me.. Too lazy to pick up the mag or read by-laws

[ICTHRMLS]

Originally posted by easytiger
Someone who votes for a third so called "spoiler" candidate pointedly did NOT vote for either of the other two, so the whole "spoiler" thing does not work for me.
Yeah, if I was gonna nominate someone to run against me I would find the worst "qualified" candidate - or maybe that's what is happening.:rolleyes: Why beat your self??

Sign me.. Still confused:confused:

[J_R]

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[ICTHRMLS]

Originally posted by J_R
You have to remember that the EC members are elected volunteers, not paid employees.

So we've ruled out money as the motivator.

There are 11 AMA Districts. Each has one VP. Those 11 plus the EVP make up the NC.

Thanks - I wasn't sure if others listed (contest coordinators, etc.) were part of it. Still seems like COI to me.

Sign me... Confusing & Ridiculous Acronym Practice (C.R.A.P.)

[easytiger]

I have never seen an example of that happening.
They said Tiano would never get on the ballot, because of the "corrupt", NC, but there he was on the ballot.

[J_R]

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[easytiger]

Hmmmm...since Horrace was elected once back in the Seventies via a write in campaign, I can't see how he could complain that the system is unfair. Does that make any sense to you?

So, he runs for President, then AVP, then VP? Three elections in a row?

[easytiger]

"There are still charges that the incumbent was behind the thrid candidate on the ballot that drew just enough votes for the incumbent to win. "

See...I just don't buy that logic. The third candidate got the votes. The second one did not. Nor did the first. I just can't reconcile the concept of the "spoiler."
If people wanted that second candidate, then the most people would have voted for him.

As far as hanky panky in the nominating process, well, I just have not seen any concrete evidence of that, only speculation.
I DO agree with the concept of only three people on the ballot, otherwise it just becomes a mess. Look at California right now. A circus.
But if enough people want, they can write in a new candidate, and he'll win.
I do beleive in the concept of having SOME sort of vetting process for the candidates...I mean, if there were NO qualifications, we could get a highly unqualified candidate who is not up for the job. If you cannot jump through the very small hoops to become a Leader Member, it does not say much for the ability to commit to three years as a VP, does it?
To me, they are very loose with who is qualified and who is not. The last EVP election is a perfect example of that.

[J_R]

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[J_R]

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[Jim Branaum]

Originally posted by easytiger
"There are still charges that the incumbent was behind the thrid candidate on the ballot that drew just enough votes for the incumbent to win. "

See...I just don't buy that logic. The third candidate got the votes. The second one did not. Nor did the first. I just can't reconcile the concept of the "spoiler."
If people wanted that second candidate, then the most people would have voted for him.

As far as hanky panky in the nominating process, well, I just have not seen any concrete evidence of that, only speculation.
I DO agree with the concept of only three people on the ballot, otherwise it just becomes a mess. Look at California right now. A circus.
But if enough people want, they can write in a new candidate, and he'll win.
I do beleive in the concept of having SOME sort of vetting process for the candidates...I mean, if there were NO qualifications, we could get a highly unqualified candidate who is not up for the job. If you cannot jump through the very small hoops to become a Leader Member, it does not say much for the ability to commit to three years as a VP, does it?
To me, they are very loose with who is qualified and who is not. The last EVP election is a perfect example of that.

No real arguements except for the concrete evidencce of 'hanky panky' part. I called HC in May or June and he told me what he had done. I heard that SF took similar action and called Bill Oberdiek Thursday, July 9 and confirmed that SF had in fact nominated his friends Doug Powell and Bill Lee. In that call I expressed my dismay and suggested that a solution might be to disallow both candidates who were involved with immoral actions. Oberdiek said the NC would follow the rules.

In short, there is no better way to provide you with proof of the actions that were taken other than suggest you call Dave Brown (I have), Bill Oberdieck (I have), and or others (I have).

As I have said before elsewhere, immoral actions do not belong in the leadership of our 10 million dollar a year fraternal organization. That is why I am running a write in campaign.

Thanks for your comments.

[Hossfly]

>>>>>>>So, he runs for President, then AVP, then VP? Three elections in a row?<<<<<<<<

Good counting there, ET.

Next year starts the 3 year cycle all over. President again.

I have to look it up, but it was a bunch that Ol' Honest Abe was defeated in elections (they elected Vice presidents separately back then) prior to getting President, USA.

Let's see There was a statement by Calvin Coolidge, "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence, .... Not talent...not education ... not genius.... Persitence and Determination alone are omnipotent"

Sounds gooood ta' me.

See ya' next year. (:-))<

Hoss

[J_R]

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[Hossfly]

Originally posted by J_R
Your throwing the the towel for this year? Can we quote that?

JR


Quote your (note use of possessive pronoun your) own words as you please.

If you're (note use of contraction of you are) planning to quote me, I request you quote correctly. I'll either see you from the EC round/square table early next year, or later in the presidential election next year.

Guess that dream is a nightmare, eh? :D

Hoss

[Karl B²]

"...Persitence and Determination alone are omnipotent"
Sounds a l'il bit like Cool Hand Luke. Durn purdy shame he's a'dead.

JR - no longer a member. Unfortunately, the two separate times I was a member, at two different clubs, the monthly meetings played with safety rules in much the same way the "good ol' boys" play with national elections: big-fish-small-pond politics to deal with items as inane as parking priveliges. In this case, I couldn't just ignore the seamy underside, as it was intrusive in all aspects of the chartered club experience. Real sour aftertaste.

Please realize that this board is THE only AMA voice on this forum outside of occasional threads elsewhere. If campaign squabbles are a small part of the AMA, it would be nice to see that balanced and outweighed by posts about AMA scheduled events, activities, etc. Perhaps it would be worthwhile for those in leadership positions within AMA to make a point of providing these updates to RCGroups, RCUniverse, and other online forums. The internet isn't going away, and I'll go out on a limb to predict that the management of RCGroups would welcome a similar effort as a good use of this board.

I'll look in occasionally, but my third "first" impression here matches my "first" first impression back in the 80's, as well as my "second" first impression in the 90's. I won't hold my breath.

Good luck.
Karl

[Don Sims]

Originally posted by Kinnic^2
When I first heard of this forum, I thought it would be a place to learn more about what AMA has and is doing in the modeling world. Surely the threads on this new thread do not represent the spirit of the AMA in general?

I invite those with positive things to say about the AMA to post it here, for the sake of the hobby. For if this forum and some of the comments in the poll thread are the norm, as a modeler, I say get off our side.

Karl

Please get the thread back on topic.
Thanks,
Don

Karl, I just noticed that you attempting to do the same thing. I appreciate you doing that!
Don

[Karl B²]

Originally posted by Hossfly
Quote your (note use of possessive pronoun your) own words as you please.

If you're (note use of contraction of you are) planning to quote me...
Ah. Hah. Clever, a spelling flame (http://www.advicemeant.com/flame/10define.shtml#Spelling). :rolleyes:

Thanks, Don. Sorry for this latest, some bones I just can't choke down.

[Hossfly]

>>>>>>>>
Please realize that this board is THE only AMA voice on this forum outside of occasional threads elsewhere. If campaign squabbles are a small part of the AMA, it would be nice to see that balanced and outweighed by posts about AMA scheduled events, activities, etc. Perhaps it would be worthwhile for those in leadership positions within AMA to make a point of providing these updates to RCGroups, RCUniverse, and other online forums.
<<<<<<<<<<<<

You can find that info on AMA's web, http://modelaircraft.org

Would be a waste trying to keep chartered clubs and events on these forums.

Join AMA and they send you a magazine each month that has all sanctioned events listed.