Indoor Flying?

[Don Leitz]

I have a contact for the indoor soccer arena in Mason. Before I approach him, I would like to gage interest in the area for indoor flying.

If anyone in the Cincinnati area is interested, please use this thread to state your preferences for the day of the week, time of day, and how frequently you would be interested in attending an indoor session. Keep in mind that the facility is probably not going to be available during weekends during the day, but probably would be during the evenings during the week.

I would envision maybe a two hour session once or twice a month. Anyone interested?

Don

[cincy]

Hi Don

I would be interested in a few times a month during the evening. Tues, Wed and Thursdays are the best nights for me. Let me know!!

[mgerald]

I too am interested. Please keep me in the loop on this. Thanks.

[tiggs]

Don,
I'd also be interested in at least once a month having an indoor session. Anything more would be hopeful on my part.

Monday nights are best, but Monday through Thursday from 8-10 would generally be okay.

Ted

[JimmyTheG]

I would also be interested.

[Vilas]

Count me in for once/twice per month, weekday evenings will be fine!

[Don Leitz]

Here's an update:
I contacted Mr. Dante Rainone at the Wall2Wall soccer facility. He was receptive to us using the main field for flying during off-peak hours. Normal rental rates are $450.00/hr (!!!!!!); however, he did say that he could offer us a substantial reduction if we used the facility during off-peak hours - basically he just needs to break even, and would consider it community service. He mentioned that the best times would be weekdays before 5PM (probably not good for most of us), and weekdays between 9-11PM (probably OK for most of us). Weekends are definitely out, as the facilty is booked. Wall2Wall's schedule for soccer leagues for most of the Winter will be finalized the week of 11/3. I'll give Dante a call then and report back as to available times.

In the mean time, if anyone has any questions they can post here or email me: dleitz@choice.net

Regards,
Don

[JimmyTheG]

Don,

Did he give you any indication what rate he would have to charge? :confused:

[Don Leitz]

Did he give you any indication what rate he would have to charge?

No, but judging from the costs of similar facilities, I'm guessing $50-$100.00/hr. This is just my guess. The golf dome in Columbus is renting to the TORKS club for $300.00/ hr on Saturday evenings. Week nights should cheaper, and if we can do this at a time when the facility would otherwise be vacant, I think we can do better. It will help that we are not competing for time with other potential activities.

If we can get at least 10 people to participate, $10.00 per person seems reasonable to me. I'll discuss the cost in more detail with Dante when I call him again.

Don

[AndrewsJr]

Originally posted by Don Leitz
No, but judging from the costs of similar facilities, I'm guessing $50-$100.00/hr. This is just my guess. The golf dome in Columbus is renting to the TORKS club for $300.00/ hr on Saturday evenings. Week nights should cheaper, and if we can do this at a time when the facility would otherwise be vacant, I think we can do better. It will help that we are not competing for time with other potential activities.

If we can get at least 10 people to participate, $10.00 per person seems reasonable to me. I'll discuss the cost in more detail with Dante when I call him again.

Don

I'll see if I can pull some strings on this, since Dante is my neighbor :D . In fact earlier in the year I had guaged interest in a indoor venue after I found out that he had owned/managed a suitable facility. Unfortunately due to other committments I simply did not have time to follow through. Good to hear that someone had the time to talk to Dante and discuss what appears to be a reasonable ratet to fly.

I currently don't fly anything smaller than a GWS TM. Is this a small enough plane for a facility like WalltoWall with a 40ft height restriction?

Thanks,

Jon.

[Don Leitz]

The golf dome in Columbus is renting to the TORKS club for $300.00/ hr on Saturday evenings.

Whoops - I think it was $300 for 2 hours, making it $150.00 per hour.

Good to hear that someone had the time to talk to Dante and discuss what appears to be a reasonable ratet to fly.

I hope the rate is reasonable enough to allow this to happen; however, I can appreciate that this is a business.



I currently don't fly anything smaller than a GWS TM. Is this a small enough plane for a facility like WalltoWall with a 40ft height restriction?

Judging from the Tiger Moths that I saw flying in the Dome last weekend, you will only need 5 feet of height;)

Jon, nice to hear that Dante is your neighbor - maybe we can tag-team;)

Don

[tiggs]

Don,
You can count me in for a weekday night or two as well. 9-11 is actually great, as the kids are in bed by 8ish, so I look less like an abandoner! ;)

Now I can put those single conversion Rx into something!

Ted

[Don Leitz]

I haven't had any luck in the last week reaching Dante. I'll try again this week.

Don

[Don Leitz]

Update:
I was able to reach Dante this morning. The winter schedule for the Wall2Wall facilty is finished. Open times are as follows:

large field - Mondays and Tuesdays 5-6pm
small field - Wednesdays 4-5 and Saturdays 7am-8am

Probably the only time that would work for most people is the Saturday morning 7-8 slot on the small field. This field is plenty big for indoor flying - in fact, I think the large field is too big and we would lose sight of the smaller planes! The discounted rental rate for the small field would be $90.00/hr (regular rate $120.00/hr). So if we could get ~10 people together that wouldn't mind getting up a little early on Saturday mornings, I think we can do this. Please post here or email me if you are interested.

Don

[cincy]

Count me in. Hopefully we get enough people to make the per person cost reasonable!

[nimwegen]

Great,

Count me in for Sat. morning. I can't go during the week because of work.

Marcel.

[mrebman]

Don:
I might be interested, I live in Finneytown, where is this Wall-To-Wall facility located?

-Thanks-

Mike

[nimwegen]

Mike,

It's of rt42 in Mason. From I75 go north on rt42 and it's maybe another 15min drive or so.

Marcel.

[nimwegen]

Well, my plane is ready to go. It's an And_now made out of 3mm Depron. Specifications:

Power: GWS IPS 5.86:1 Geared, 10x4.3 prop.
Weight: 200g / 7oz (maybe a little heavy?)
Span: 70cm

I am using an old FMA 20 ESC, IPX servo's and a Berg 6 channel receiver. The battery is a 350Mha NiMH pack.

I hope we get some calm weather soon so I can try it out.

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Looks great Marcel! It should fly fine at that weight. My Tiny-X was close to that weight before swapping out the RX and going to LiPo's. It probably won't fly quite as slow as my Nutta, but should fly well outside and will be fine indoors in the most places. Hopefully you can fly it on Saturday.

Don

[mrebman]

Don:
Regarding the indoor soccer facility. I guess the cost per person for that time slot is more or less based on how many people show up? Have you been out there to try it out yet?

-Thanks-

Mike

[Don Leitz]

Mike,
I have been in the facility, but have not flown there yet. My idea for the first visit will be for everyone to pay $10.00 If less than 9 people show up, I'll make up the difference the first time. If more than 9 show up, we can either refund the difference or start a pool with the extra funds. I have heard of some clubs doing it this way and being able to pay for a free session at the end of the season with the extra money - either way is OK with me. The idea now is to get enough people to show up to make it a viable proposition to do this every few weeks. If a lot less than 9 people show up, I'm going to guess that it isn't going to work out. What would be a good starting date? - I'm thinking either 12/6 or 12/13. Hope you can make it.

Don

[Don Leitz]

I was able to get in a little building time today, so here's my latest indoor plane. It's loosely based on a plan I found on the internet, but with quite a few changes to the wing and tail. I haven't decided yet if I will make a working rudder or not. Target weight with a GWS IPS-A and 2S1P 340 pack is 4.5 oz. A working rudder will probably bring it closer to 4.8-4.9 oz. All 3mm Depron with .5mmx3mm carbon spars in the wing, fuse, and tail. I should have this done by the end of the weekend, but probably not in time for Saturday morning at VOA.

Don

[nimwegen]

Don,

Nice looking plane. I think using the gray/white contrast looks great and is without much weight penalty. How can you keep it so light? What's the wing span?

I can make it for Dec 6, I can't make it Dec 13.

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Hi Marcel,
The plane is now finished. It's amazing how fast these foam planes go together. All up weight ended up being 4.8oz. I decided to not rig a working rudder for now. If the plane flies really well, I may consider adding one. Wingspan is 24 inches - the width of my gray Depron sheets in the grain direction. Wing area is about 200-205 sq.in. I used two of the Bluebird servos. They seem to center OK. No landing gear, light RX, and LiPo battery is what keeps it light.

I'll try and set up our first morning at Wall2Wall for 12/6 - I'll pass the word when I confirm it.

Don

[cincy]

Hi Don

Is AMA membership required to fly at wall2wall? Thanks.

[Don Leitz]

Cincy,
I assume from your question that you don't have an AMA membership. It may depend on whether we do this as a club function or not. I'll have to ask the club president about it. However, I have an "intro pilot" license, so maybe you could fly under that. Wall2Wall has said nothing about AMA membership or insurance. I doubt we can do much damage to the facilty, so personal injury is the only real concern.

Don

[tiggs]

Hi Guys,
As the current president of VOA E-flyers, I guess I should chime in.

First of all, GREAT WORK DON!

I agree with Don that we can do little damage to the facility as compared to, say, a screaming soccer ball blast!

However, strange things have a way of happening. I'm sure the owners didn't ask about AMA insurance simply because they didn't know about it!

I am for suggesting/requiring AMA with a one time exception (to allow a trial of the facility), simply because I think anything else will leave Don hanging out in the breeze as the only guy they know.

The final call is Don's, but knowing the club membership, I am sure he will get strong support whatever he decides.

I know there is frequently arguments about the value of AMA membership/insurance, but in today's litigious society, I find it goves some peace of mind, and makes allof these discussions about entering contests and fly-ins moot.

My two cents!

Ted Biggs

[Don Leitz]

Thanks for responding, Ted. AMA membership will be required to fly at Wall2Wall - it's just too big a risk for me to assume otherwise. Cincy - please PM me or email me @ dleitz@choice.net if you want to discuss further. I am going to try and set up a Saturday morning session for 12/6 - I'll post here when it's a definite go.

Don

[mrebman]

Don:
Let me know if it's a go for the Wall-To-Wall facility, I may join you & I'm a long time AMA member.

-Thanks-

Mike

[Don Leitz]

I have confirmed that we will fly this Saturday, 12/6 at Wall2Wall Soccer from 7-8AM. Cost will be $10.00. Hope to see a good turn-out!

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

Excellent news, I will be there. I flew my And_Now Sunday afternoon, it was a little windy (gusts of 15 miles per hour) but it flew pretty good. It climbed OK (not super fast) and was able to fly OK with all the wind. It might fly a little fast for indoors, but I would like to try it.

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Marcel,
I can't believe you actually test flew it in the winds over the weekend. I really wanted to fly my Sukhoi, but was too chicken. I think your plane will be fine in larger indoor spaces like the Columbus dome or Wall2Wall, and should make an excellent small outdoor space flyer. Maybe we can try some formation flying on Saturday.

Don

[nimwegen]

Hi Don,

I just couldn't wait any longer. It was windy, the plane was actually sliding backwards because of the wind while on the runway, but once airborne it flew fast enough to handle it. Will you fly the Sukhoi Saturday?

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

"Will you fly the Sukhoi Saturday? "
Yes - I plan to. I rushed home this evening in order to get a test flight in (just) before dark, as I didn't want to try the first flight indoors. I grabbed my larger 1020 pack and was able to get a 5 minute flight in as the light faded. It didn't seem to be too far out of trim and was controllable, so I feel pretty comfortable flying it indoors now. It seems to want a little more speed than the Nutta to get in the groove, but might fly a bit slower with my smaller packs. A weight savings of 0.8 ounces doesn't seem like much, but it makes a big difference on a 5 ounce plane. It does roll OK, but loops were very sloppy - either needs more speed or thrust. I'll see how it does with the smaller packs on Saturday.

Don

[nelsonjo1]

Don -- Should a GWS Lite Stik be OK for the indoor facility? If so -- I will plan on flying Saturday. Thanks.

John Nelson
West Chester

[Don Leitz]

John,
A lite stick will be fine. See you tomorrow morning.

Don

[mrebman]

Don:
You can count me in tomorrow morning for the Wall-To-Wall fly-in. I will be bringing (2) planes, A Mountain Models "Duskstik" & a GWS "Tiger Moth" Biplane (Both IPS-A powered so pretty tame).
Do we have to check in at the desk or go straight to the "small" field?

-Thanks-

Mike

[Don Leitz]

I will arrive about 15 minutes early to pay, etc. so you should be able to just come on in. The small field is the one on the left as you walk into the area with tables past the batting cages and desk. See you there.

Don

[tiggs]

Okay boys,
How about it!
Pictures, comments, etc!


Ted

[Don Leitz]

Hi Ted,
Sorry you couldn't make this one. I only got a chance to take one picture; however, I did see some others snapping a few, so if you took pictures, please post here.

We had a good turnout so I was able to break even.

Notable observations:

Paul Siegal and Jim Ryan screaming around with Paul's Rare Bear between repair sessions ;-)

John Arbogast's very small and slow planes that could have flown in 1/4 the space available.

Glenn Stucker's large, but slow Demoiselle flying gracefully around the field.

Bob Bellomini's Pigi hovering and harriering around with no problem between repair sessions.

Don Belfort skillfully guiding his Bantam around the field.

Marcel's new And_Now flying nicely before his mid-air with the Pigi- fortunately not much damage done to either plane.

Mike Rebman's plane that spent most of the session hanging from the net, and refused to come down until one of the guys working at Wall2Wall got up on a ladder and disassembled the landing gear - again, not too much damage.

The two Tiger Moths that were the perfect size and speed for the space. It's funny how the walls seem so much closer when you have a transmitter in front of you!

Thanks to everyone who showed up to fly and/or spectate. Also thanks to the staff at Wall2Wall - nice friendly people. I had a great time and look forward to more sessions. We'll try to do it again in a month or so. I propose Saturday, 1/3/04 as our next session. Everyone, please let me know if that date works for you.

Ted, are you still going up to Columbus tonight?

Don

[mrebman]

Don:
1/3/04 sounds great to me, I will try to be there. Boy, I am sure glad I decided to bring my Tiger Moth since the Duskstik went into the net right off the bat. The Moth worked out real well, probably because it turns nice & tight & those short biplane wings give lots of lift & drag.
The next time I think I will bring my Wattage Litestik, that ought to be about perfect for that size area!:)

-Thanks for getting it organized & thanks to Wall-To-Wall for helping to De-Net my Plane.-

-Mike-

[mrebman]

Don:
Oops, I just noticed that I still have the Channel 46 Frequency Pin, I will bring it back the next time.

-Sorry-

Mike Rebman

[nelsonjo1]

Sounds like a good time at the Wall2Wall facility. Unfortunately -- sick kids interfered with plans to join everyone. Looking forward to the 1/3 session. -John Nelson

[nimwegen]

Don,

This was really cool. Do you have any pictures yet? Looking forward to the next carnage session. I will update the VOA home page with the date and any pictures you might have.

Thanks,

Marcel.

[Don Leitz]

Marcel,
I do have a couple of pictures that Gordon emailed me. I tried to forward them to you, but the email kept getting kicked back. I will try again tonight.

Don